So the GV ORED XVK deal fell thru, found a 93 U300 with 150k, always garage stored in San Antonio. All manuals and most service records since 96 when Sons deceased father purchased it. Yearly maintenance at FOT. 6v92 so fuel mileage will suck. Son & wife lived in it while new house under construction just finished. Will check bulkheads etc. Any other words of wisdom, as I have researched this and beams site for about 6 months? Sounds promising so far. I will ask how many years it set idle due to health issues.
Most of the U300 owners on the forum have averaged about 8 mpg over the life of the vehicle as documented by the DDEC ECU. Do any high profile Foretravels do better?
A lot of misinformation out there. Like the wet liners. If you have a Cummins other than the 5.9, you also have wet liners just like the 6V-92TA.
Pierce
Lifetime (at the time of the Cummins printout done by PO @ 140K miles) 9.63, which corresponds pretty closely with what I get by the old fashioned method that involves basic math. I think we usually run within about 1K of GVW (31,000lbs) towing a Honda Fit (about 2600lbs).
Don
Fuel mileage should be
way down on the list of critical things to consider when shopping for a classic diesel pusher. They all suck.
Since you've been around here for a while, you probably know that.
Trying to stir up the 2-stroke crowd? ;)
It is what it is if you don't like the 2 stroke don't buy it keep lookin :)) mi
Nope, after the "DDEC people" posts, I have learned the the extremely complicated engine is quite simple in a lot of areas, and I think I now finally "get it". Volumetric efficiency must be quite high for this engine until its installed with standard "off the shelf" 5" tiny exhaust and intake systems. velocity thru a 5" intake at peak load is 102 mph, and 5" exhaust at 240 mph, which adds a lot of pumping losses that can be changed.
My earlier searches for GV's did not include consideration for the Detroit, but I have warmed up to this beast. The only thing I don't like about this 93 is the lack of a gas oven, and only a 2 burner gagneon (SP) cooktop, and carpet in the bathroom. Since the DW has allergies ALL of the carpet will be removed.
Thanks for all of the forums knowledge base, and those who contributed.
"Different strokes for different folks" Love the DD's..... ^.^d but my Kitty Kat purrrsss
All 3 items easily corrected! A trip to the remod shop at FOT, or any other quality shop, + some coach bucks, can do the deed.
I'm thinking David Flanagan should have some gas ovens stashed away, because some owners have them removed to regain the lost cabinet space and to upgrade the cooktop.
Lots of quality vendors to re-do the floor. Search the Forum for recommendations.
Good luck!
Like Don our average is up there. I do not have any specifics but it is at least the same and I feel better at aorund 10. The Banks makes it better.
JohnH
To remove political portion of the post
John,
I was hoping you might have some insight to the mpg on a big coach. I wonder how the U280s/8.3 Cummins do with the same 746 transmission as the U300 Detroits? The four speed Allisons don't have the two overdrive gears for highway cruising. I'm all done at 2100 rpm/82 mph and would sure like to drop the rpm at 65 mph cruise down several hundred rpm.
Pierce
Please keep in mind the term "my MPG sucks" is all relative.
This past week I pulled my fathers 32' Forest River Vibe "maybe 7200lbs." from Lake Okeechobee to western north Carolina. averaged 9.6 MPG. I did drive at or 2-4 mph over the speed limit up I-95 and I-26. 2016 ford diesel F-350 4x4. So....allowing a "flat land" average MPG for the F-350 of 20MPH averaged with towing MPG results in 14.5 MPG or so.
Averaging the MPG of our towed car Altima and our U320 gives an honest 21.5 MPG given both driven equal mileage. Christi and I love to drive around and explore where ever we visit.
Just a visual exercise to help us to explain how our large diesels actually have a much smaller environmental impact then other less green options for camping/exploring .... :)
Thats my story, and I'm sticking to it.
Absolutely! When we drive downhill to San Francisco in the U300, we usually take it easy at about 55 mph and get almost 12 mpg. A friend with his Ford 460 gas (carburetor) automatic PU with a utility bed gets about 6 mpg for the same exact trip so not bad for a big rolling apartment, environmentally speaking.
Pierce
We come thru many mnts etc to get down here but on the flat run 12mpg but average for whole trip it is most probably 10.
JohnH
FWIW,
I have an 8.3 cummins engine. It routinely gets around 8-9mpg. That varies considerably with the speed. If I were to slow down to 55, I think I would get closer to 10mpg. I rountinely run about 65 mph. I don't like going over that as I think I may want to stop on short order and know that it may be problematic at higher speeds. This does include generator use when needed. I need that more in the summer than I do in winter obviously. I have driven a DD and frankly did not have an issue with it. I would consider one if I were in the market. I test drove a Vogue with a DD and it performed very well. Love the sound of it too. Liked the FT more and that is why I have it with the 8.3 (had nothing to do with the engine). Best of travels.
Other then the bulkheads check the sides for de-lamination.. I like the old Detroit. Mine has been good to me. It is getting harder to find mechanics that are familiar with them.. If the coach is sound otherwise the DD wouldn't be a deal breaker for me.
Good luck..
DD correct me if I'm wrong CAN have digital readouts VS nalog with the C8.3...
Not sure who this is directed to or if it concerns DD as in Detroit Diesel.
The 2 cycle Detroit engines fitted to Foretravels are computer controlled by the DDEC II. As soon as you plug in a Pro-Link 9000 to the data port next to the driver and turn the key on, over 40 tests, statistics, history, etc are available to read out. Part of the history include the miles traveled since new, gallons of diesel consumed since new and the miles per gallon since new. You can also do trip mpg and instant mpg at that moment.
The mechanical 8.3 Cummins will need a fuel log book in order to figure fuel mileage with a calculator.
Both electronic and mechanical engines have their advantages. Some things are easier with one type, other things easier with the other.
Pierce
Just for fun.
Not sure why MPG is all that important. As someone said, it always suck's. Easiest way to explain it is what I told someone when they asked "How many MPG do you get" I responded "About 40" To his amazement I began to explain, that when you compute in the savings on hotels, food, etc., that is about what it works out to.
The truth of the matter is, after being in the RV industry as a tech, owning a Van Conversion shop, and having owned pretty much every type of RV one could own, the bottom line is this. They all average about 8 MPG. Up hill, down hill, tail wind, towing, not towing, whatever. That's about what you are going to get, if you drive it sane.
It amazes me, that someone will spend 3K on a Banks system or something else, that gives them hope they will gain one MPG. Do the math, it will take forever to gain that kind of coin back.
Just my 2 cents
;D
Cheers
What he said! I've had to keep track of usage all my life, and did with fuel mileage. I finally, as age came on, realized, "who cares?" It's the same for a lot of things I thought were "important". These days, I keep track of the weather, try to remember the DW's birthday, check when NASCAR comes on. I forget what song it was, but, the line I remember, was, "keep your mind open." ^.^d
It all takes fuel, and its worked out cheaper than driving the car on trips after hotels, eating out etc. Also routine and a familiar bed helps the little one. I get 9 mpg with the generator running around the clock on the trips I have checked. The mileage looks really good when I get to the race track and do match at a factor of two laps a gallon. Neither one was going to run on just air.
Chris, I gather as I am the only one who mentioned Banks that the comment was directed at me.
I did not pay for the Banks as PO did but one thing for sure I can tell when it works or not. I have had 2 instances with 12v power being cut off to it and the difference in power both for flat and climbing is unmistakable. I would any time put this coach up against another without it and prove the difference.
I do 10k miles a year so if I get 1 mpg more that is like saving 110galls at $3 per so $300 + each year. I have owned this coach over 8 yrs so it was $2400 to install so now paid off and I still get to enjoy the boost and mileage. No Brainer for me.
have fun
JohnH
Have to agree with John on the power. Sure a 35000 lb coach with 300 hp will get you just about everywhere. But sure is nice when getting on the onramp, and being able to merge with traffic at 65 or 70 instead of 45 mph, just makes it easier on me. Do not have to worry about some distracted driver checking out my rear bumper.
You do not necessarily need the extra hp, but it is nice when you really need it.
Too Much?
Sorry, comment wasn't directed at you. I apologize if I offended you. I was a Service advisor for a while at a big RV store. We put Banks systems on all the time, and yes, they do help. Most the time it was because of cracked manifolds on Chevy and Ford V8's.
I wouldn't throw one out of bed for eating chips if I had one.
The point I was making is the $4000.00 installed cost outweighs the return (4K is 2006 price, I am sure they are much more now). I should have added that most people don't keep their coaches long enough to absorb the cost.
Cheers
Motor home mileage can be distilled down to.........For a car....Poor But for a house....Impressive. This is my stock response to the "what kinda mileage does that thing get" question. ^.^d
Water heater has been replaced with an on demand unit. Anybody have experience with one on their coach? Other having to pump vineager thru it every couple of years to de-lime it any downside?
No down side. We have one at home. Unlimited showers if you have the water supply. They save propane as no waste from water storage.
Our Atwood RV water does work well and does use engine coolant to heat the water while driving plus we have a "hot rod" to electrically heat the water if plugged in to shore power. But that's about it for advantages.
Pierce
Hey Pierce,
If I remember correctly, you had plans to do some sort of roll-your-own version of an LP fired hydronic heater made out of an on demand LP water heater. Did you ever get past the head scratching phase of the project? Or did I remember incorrectly...
Don
Old phart, about time you put your coach and info into signature so we see what (if) you have one. Helps with our answers to you.
Be like all of us with info etc.
JohnH
John, unfortunately coach less at this time, as stated at the start of this post, still looking and researching. Owner is out of town till next week, so the 1000 mile round trip will have to wait a bit, and I am not legally qaulified to drive it my state. Was hopeing to take the written DL test and get a instructional permit and creep across the state line, and take the driving test, but the nearest DL office is 100 miles past the state line. State trooper would probably just issue a warning ticket, but insurance co would deny any claim. Ask the question if I could rent a 30 ft box uhaul truck and attempt to take the driving test and got the big NO as the GVRW was was less than 26,000. Jacking my own post kinda
In Texas (and this is a good reason to go ahead and update your forum signature, no idea what state you're in), you also get a learners permit after passing written test so all you need is a licensed coach owning friend to ride with you to test.
Don,
No, you remember correctly. With my back, I have put several projects on hold. The operation was a success (laminectomy) and I am a thousand times better now. So, I have the tankless heater and am trying to figure how to mount it so there is a foot above for the exhaust to draw and then make a 90 and out through the coach wall.
I should probably go back to what my goals are. First, I would like to be able to warm the engine on cold mornings without starting the generator. We are usually dry camping so don't have shore power. Second, I don't like the noise the heaters make so I want to be able to remove the heaters and install heat exchangers in the original location. I have salvaged a couple hundred feet of copper pipe with thousands of aluminum fins so I will utilize them.
Looking at the stock water heater I can see that engine coolant runs through it to heat the water while driving. I had the idea to put a small 12V pump that I purchased on ebay and direct the coolant back to the engine from the water heater and use it's internal heat exchanger in the opposite way. The pump is very small, works with hot water and can run all night without using much juice.
For the tankless, I installed an aluminum bulkhead almost against the water tank in the water heater and water tank compartment so there is room to close the compartment door and clear the tankless heater. The coolant would then be sent to both the front and rear heat exchangers via the same type of small pump. 95% of the noise would be eliminated with only a low speed 12V fan to circulate the water. The problem so far is getting a foot above the tankless so it will meet the installation specs without going through the floor above and then making the 90 turn and out.
I already used these heat exchangers without a fan to heat our house with a large diesel fired boiler located in the garage. It used over a gallon an hour and when the price of diesel went up, I removed the whole setup and installed a Toyo OM-22 direct vent diesel heater. A very excellent product. The Foretravel has much less insulation and single pane windows so it will need more than just convection to keep it comfortable. I have a unvented propane heater now to use for a backup. I even thought of just installing a OM-22 in the coach to use but I even though they are not that big, I can't find a convenient outside wall to vent through. They do have a fan but it's very quiet especially compared to the OEM heaters and use much less fuel. 90 % efficiency at 22K BTUs and High - 0.173 gal./h
Med - 0.116 gal./h
Low - 0.060 gal./h
Lots of choices here and I don't want to make a mistake. I took several months to figure out our solar installation and this is more complex than that.
Pierce
I think it would be easier and cheaper to go south to Mexico for the winter and go home when it warms back up! Thats what I'm hoping to be able to do one day.
Stump,
What can I say? Good food, clear water and a great climate.
Our problem is not just winter but almost year around as most of the time we live in the Sierra foothills and usually camp up at summit elevations. June Lake Loop is about 8000 feet and cold at night. A combination of cold morning temps, high altitude, lower compression turbo engine and no heated screen like the Cummins have makes early morning starts difficult without some kind of block heater.
Without my son's family living close in Sacramento, I would be down there full time.
Pierce
So is there a trick to raising the dash to get a look at the wiring, to see that's it not been butchered too much? Thanks coastprt for the pic of the ddec II connector. Weather & travel conditions and the owner on a business trip so far have interfered a journey to inspect the coach. But we have been communicating very well. So far so good, as has has sent pics of the good and known defects without asking, and has so far disclosed freely any known flaws as he has been living in it for a few months while his new house is being built. Price is negotiable based on what I see or detect. Any advice would be helpful. Brett is away at the Chandler fmca rally I believe.
No trick on the dash grab front edge and lift it up there are clips across the front that hold it down
You might have to kind of work your way across. But it just flips up.
Depending on the condition of the clips, it can be easy...or
not so easy. I start on the passenger end, and work across to other end.
And don't forget a 12" stick to hold the dash up. Don't use metal!! Too many things can be shorted if the metal falls into the wiring.
Mine is fiberglass (old CB antenna), with rubber "no mar" tips on each end. High tech all the way! 8)
I'm "frugal" so I recycled part of an old broom handle and put rubber crutch tips on the ends. ^.^d
(See?! Cheap can be spelled another way!)
I use the tissue box that normally lives within easy reach.
:( :( Man promised he would hold it for me, and would not take a deposit. He wanted to get a few things in order prior to my inspection and give me a call. Today his wife sold it. It was actually the 94 u300 SE listed on rvtrader in westcliffe, co., But I didn't want to post all of the facts on a forum. Kinda like the house we "bought" 2 years ago, full price offer and required a home inspection as required by the lender. Got the congratulations phone call.Offer accepted, earnest money accepted, I signed the contract and is was promptly delivered to the selling agent. A offer shot from the grassy knoll suddenly appeared the next day to the sellers agent same price, but specifically stated "no inspection required". A woman (and former attorney) was involved in that deal also as the sellers agent. >:(
Found a 93 3600 022-C. Think I will pass on that one after using search function. Puny motor and suspension. But I did like the side aisle floor plan.