Foretravel Motorhome Forums => Foretravel Tech Talk => Topic started by: kb0zke on March 08, 2017, 04:38:58 pm
Title: Tires
Post by: kb0zke on March 08, 2017, 04:38:58 pm
We had planned to replace the two front tires if the coach wasn't sold. It isn't sold, so two new tires are coming up soon. I've gotten some prices from a place that is on our route that was recommended by a forum member from the area. The Michelin tires we currently have are no longer available, so we won't be able to match exactly what's on the rear. I wasn't able to write quickly enough to get the details on the tires, but there are two Michelins available, one at $540 and the other at $575. There is a Firestone for $425 and a Toyo for $375. All prices are per tire, installed, taxes included.
The guy next to me has a Tiffin with all new Toyo tires. He only has a few hundred miles on them, but so far he likes them. The other motor homes here are all gassers and much smaller than my coach. We had figured that the two new tires would run us $1000-1200, so even the most expensive tires are within the budget, and the two cheaper tires are well under the lower number.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Andy 2 on March 08, 2017, 04:46:01 pm
David, I bought Firestone F 560's and really like them paid 2600for all 6mounted and bead balanced. Sounds like you are in the ball park.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: kb0zke on March 08, 2017, 04:52:25 pm
Andy, you reminded me of something. They offer bags of beads (?) for balancing for $15/tire. Worth it?
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Horace B. Cupp on March 08, 2017, 04:52:56 pm
David, probably not a good idea to buy mismatched tires. Why a difference in price? Have you tried the Michelin Advantage program, details elsewhere on this forum.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Andy 2 on March 08, 2017, 05:06:11 pm
Was for me David had not had any problems with tire ware.a and as for matching tires just don't miss match steers or duals
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: saddlesore on March 08, 2017, 05:09:43 pm
Andy, you reminded me of something. They offer bags of beads (?) for balancing for $15/tire. Worth it?
I put Toyo's on and added the beads... seems to balance front tires ok. Note! when you have beads installed they put a special valve cap on to show that it has beads added.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: John44 on March 08, 2017, 05:12:57 pm
We did the same as saddle,like the Toyos.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: kb0zke on March 08, 2017, 05:18:14 pm
Horace, there WILL be a difference between the two front tires and the four rear tires because the particular Micelins on the coach now are no longer made. Yes, we're members of FMCA and will see what they can do, just haven't gotten time to call them yet. As for the difference in price, I suspect that there are several factors involved. Michelin is a very well-known and well-respected brand, so probably part of their price is based on the name. Many years ago Firestone was a very common brand ("The name that's known is Firestone, where the rubber meets the road.) but I think they lost a lot of business some years ago with the Ford Explorers. Toyo, I think, is the new guy in town and working to build a following. They are probably willing to make a little less money now in exchange for a lot more later. All of this is just my speculation.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Mike Leary (RIP) on March 08, 2017, 05:41:34 pm
We had Toyos, they were cheap, but did not last long. Went back to Goodyear, and now have Michelin 255/80R 225 XRV . Both great tires. The Toyos could have done better if we knew what we learned later. Get all four corners weighed! If you really want to get picky (I am), weigh the coach on how you are using it. We had this one weighed with 50 gal. fresh water, 50 gal. diesel, 150 propane (1/2 a tank). We also did 60 gal. grey water and 40 black. The fronts came in at 8,600, rears 15,050. If you have (or are) a rock collector, weigh those , too. ^.^d
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: gracerace on March 08, 2017, 06:09:40 pm
Les Swab. 6 Toyo's all around. $2100.00 OUT door all spun balanced ,exchange.Took off the dated out 6 Michelin's, they gave me $600.00 trade in on those.Rides awesome.Figured they will date out, before they wear out. That's what happened with the last set.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Dave and Nancy Abel on March 08, 2017, 06:51:19 pm
Les Swab. 6 Toyo's all around. $2100.00 OUT door all spun balanced ,exchange.Took off the dated out 6 Michelin's, they gave me $600.00 trade in on those.Rides awesome.Figured they will date out, before they wear out. That's what happened with the last set.
Howdy gracerace, That's a good price! I'm wonderin' if you had Gs or Hs installed? Thanks for sharing, Dave A
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Caflashbob on March 08, 2017, 07:03:32 pm
Every new unihome and unicoach came with Michelins.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: joeszeidel on March 08, 2017, 07:06:48 pm
I have Bridgestones on my 95 am I'm very happy with them.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Chuck Pearson on March 08, 2017, 07:18:46 pm
Les Swab. 6 Toyo's all around. $2100.00 OUT door all spun balanced ,exchange.Took off the dated out 6 Michelin's, they gave me $600.00 trade in on those.Rides awesome.Figured they will date out, before they wear out. That's what happened with the last set.
Whoa. That's a deal. Did you have some kind of prior association with them, or was this a deal you walked in and negotiated?
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: craneman on March 08, 2017, 07:21:53 pm
The $600 credit for the exchange made the price.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: RvTrvlr on March 08, 2017, 07:56:29 pm
I would not spend the extra money on michelins. Several long haul truckers I know swear by bridgestones, which is what I currently have. One guy told me his Volvo came with Michelins and they were already weather checked and showing cracks when new!
When it comes time to replace in the next two years or so, I will without a doubt go toyo. Have heard a lot of stories of toyo performing exceptionally well and delivering great value for the price.
My local tire center, Bergeys Tire sells Toyo and said he has sold a lot of them and has never had a systemic issue with problems like they have seen with various chinese brands. His words were "buy what makes you happy, because if we sell it, its good"
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: lenspeiser on March 08, 2017, 08:09:07 pm
Just wondered about these "beads" that are referred to as being placed inside the tire. Wouldn't having something rattling around inside the tire carcass wear on the inside? Just curious. Len
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: its toby on March 08, 2017, 08:14:57 pm
@len in a word no. Have had the beads in fleets I have worked on and encountered them when I was at a truck dealership. For the 15 bucks beads work great. If the installer will machine balance them on a deal while installing the tire the. I would go that way. I am happy with the beads it balances the tire rim and hub assembly.
I only had two choices in the original size Michelin and something else. Talked to a friend in a tire shop found out I could go to a different size that works out the same for the speedo etc and gave me many different choices. I went load range H and ended up installing Bridgestone bus tires.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Caflashbob on March 08, 2017, 08:31:42 pm
None of the tires I checked have the technical specs of the Michelins. Especially the directional sipes to help the coach self steer.
Like they were in part made for rv's.
Noticed a lot of line haul trucks with Michelin zxa-3's on the steer axle. Look for yourself when getting fuel.
They also run farther which is not our issue.
Not a price buyer on tires
No dual compound rubber. No mention of quieter or better ride.....
They also have more depth which is not our issue and have a guaranteed 700k/three retread warranty.
I am extremely picky and the overall drive was excellent.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Old phart phred on March 08, 2017, 08:32:31 pm
Anybody run Yokohama's, they made some fantastic cutting edge sports car tires?
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: RRadio on March 08, 2017, 09:37:40 pm
Phoenix Tire almost always has brand new Michelin take off tires with date codes within the past year and a half at a deep discount. They had 13 of them in stock when I bought mine. I think I paid $450 mounted and balanced for a $600 tire if I remember correctly (?) I wrote about it on the forum at the time. Maybe you're not going through Phoenix but other readers could benefit from this information. The date code meant nothing to me because it was going to be a spare tire anyway... Oh who am I kidding, the date code would have meant nothing to me no matter what. :)
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: stevec22 on March 08, 2017, 09:49:06 pm
I have Firestone F591 H rated, 16 ply tires. Had them installed a couple of months ago, just under $500 each mounted and balanced out the door. I am happy with them so far, around 4000 miles on them.
Bought them from Southern Tire Mart in Florida, but they have shop all over the south.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Old Knucklehead on March 08, 2017, 10:11:52 pm
Bought them from Southern Tire Mart in Florida, but they have shop all over the south.
Bought two Bridgestones from them last October and checked out right at $600 per TTL. (sic) I have relaxed my grip on the wheel a bit. Really had good service in the bay from Southern Tire Mart. Paul
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: John Haygarth on March 08, 2017, 11:35:53 pm
I have Toyo's as steer and Firestone on duals. Wanted Toyos all around but could not get them at time. Love Toyos and have had them on my 7 series BMW for many years. MUCH better road holding and wet driving than Mich' JohnH
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Caflashbob on March 08, 2017, 11:57:59 pm
You are comparing your OTR toyo's to current Xza-3+ or their energy x replacements?
Toyo, Bridgestone, Goodyear and Firestones went to the thick sidewall design for flat tire runouts.
Two choices on the tech. Thick sidewalls hold the tire up with no air.
Or the Michelin design where the sidewall shreds and the tire/rim come down on the tread area allowing no flip flop loss of steering control.
The Michelin thinner sidewall and no overlapping carcass belts have no,hard spot where the carcass overlaps which is visible on the sidewallls as a crease and self steers better.
Had long conversations with all the tire guys long ago.
Yes it's more money. That's nice, the original FMCA advantage program only offered Michelins for a reason.
Customer demand....
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on March 09, 2017, 12:13:22 am
I'll take the thicker sidewall construction anytime. Nothing worse than on winding roads or crosswinds the mal de mer feeling the flexy sidewalls have, especially if not up at max pressure.
Pierce
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Caflashbob on March 09, 2017, 12:27:02 am
6000+ Foretravels new disagreed as did cm fore when he told me they had tested multiples of every tire made when the unihome was introduced and like the Europeans did they built the suspension system and settings around the tires.
From the horses mouth. I was there in OCT 1987. In Nac.
You may not feel the difference but I have and can.
Some of my observations are related to the now legally defensible looser front wheel bearing adjustments.
Mine were preloaded. Zero dead spot. Now .001-.003 and a slight dead spot.
The Michelins design includes a self correcting edge sipes to bring the coach back to straight.
The others do not.
Wheel bearings are now looser by legality requirements.
If you could drive the coach from the bottom of the steering wheel on a long demo ride I sold more motorhome for a higher profit.
Same as foretravel as a factory,
The tires accentuated the already superior ride and handling the eight air bag and Koni shocks delivered.
My two cents.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: RvTrvlr on March 09, 2017, 12:54:30 am
FMCA offers a couple brands. Not just michelin. All the hoopla over them being designed to do "xxxxxxx" does not sway my decision to never run michelins on any rv I own. They explode often and with expensive consequences. My current non michelins will be replaced with even cheaper non michelins that I hopefully will be able to wear out in 10 years!
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Texas Guy on March 09, 2017, 01:54:08 am
Funny you mention the beads. I have not seen them but years ago I was
at a tire store and there was a trucker there getting new tires. He had a
plastic bag full of golf balls and put a certain number in each tire before it was
mounted. He said it kept them in balance. Guess he knew what he was doing??
Carter-
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: John44 on March 09, 2017, 09:34:31 am
Got our Toyos at T.M. tire in Chicago,have known the owner for over 40 years,he swears by the Beads.he even removed the old weights tires run great.
Stated this on previous post but I still think some of the minute steering problems we have are From worn torque rod bushings.Every time your suspension goes up or down the rods move, I Found this out when redoing mine,had to lower and raise coach to get bolts out.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: John Haygarth on March 09, 2017, 10:41:36 am
My personal opinion (which means hoot to most I guess) is that today tyres are fairly equal across most makes and all this crap about one make being much better/safer etc than all the rest is just that! I look (as cashflash bob said) at trucks etc at fuel stops just to see what these guys like and now it is all over the place including offshore makes so that does not help me. I would imagine that just as other manufacturers do they get a special pricing for volume and this was the motivating thing for CM Fore. I cannot see them building a few coach's then changing tyres to see which gives the better drive. This is all done by engineering people prior to final build. Input by a large manufacturer like Michelin wouls sway most. Europe for many years used Pirelli on new cars and now use others. reason for Pirreli was that they are softer rubber and your car used to "stick" to the road making you think the road holding is superb. I can guarantee that FMCA does NOT think that Michelin are better than all others for your Motorhome it is that Michelin are willing to give members a break on the over priced cost and other makers are not. I see Continental now are also "prefered" so how does that work in the equation? Gather CM forgot to look at them too! No, Bob it is all marketing and you cannot get me to believe anything else sorry and I will merrily move on down the highway with my Toyos on front. Oh by the way FMCA I guess does not care about the lives of its Canadian members as they do not allow us to buy thru' the Michelin Program. If these tyres are so much safer surely FMCA would open it to us (still would not use it mind you) JMHO JohnH
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: gracerace on March 09, 2017, 10:59:53 am
Howdy gracerace, That's a good price! I'm wonderin' if you had Gs or Hs installed? Thanks for sharing, Dave A
They are 'G' rated. We talked about H's, but we didn't feel the coach is that heavy. If it was a U320, maybe that would have been a possibility. H's were not that much more. I don't remember the quote.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: wolfe10 on March 09, 2017, 11:07:31 am
Oh by the way FMCA I guess does not care about the lives of its Canadian members as they do not allow us to buy thru' the Michelin Program. If these tyres are so much safer surely FMCA would open it to us (still would not use it mind you) JMHO JohnH
Suspect the "what divisions of Michelin offer the program" was strictly a Michelin decision. FMCA is quite aware of members on both sides of the border.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: cubesphere on March 09, 2017, 11:09:14 am
If I were looking to buy steer tires, the tread pattern plays a role in whether that design are easily damaged under normal use. This is what a local tire expert told me.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: gracerace on March 09, 2017, 11:13:58 am
Whoa. That's a deal. Did you have some kind of prior association with them, or was this a deal you walked in and negotiated?
We have bought quite a bit of stuff from our local dealer over the years.Tires, wheels etc., because we have a few collector cars.Nothing like a business would buy. I just talked to the manager. One tid bit is, a mutual friend to the manager,who works for a large company who buys a lot from them, called and got the brother in law price before I went in $3200.00 OTD. I just talked nice, asked for his best shot, $2100.00 exchange is what he gave me. I would have sold the tires on craigslist, but it was snowing already, didn't want to mess with it. Probably could have gotten $150.00-$200.00 ea. He also told me the Michelin's we had looked great, but I talked him into selling us new tires, because I have seen so much damage when tires come apart. Both customers coaches, and my own. 10 years fronts, 7 years back, was just pushing it for me, no matter how good they looked. He had some other off brands I never heard of, even cheaper. A couple were H's. But because of the lighter weight of our coach, we both agreed G's would be fine.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on March 09, 2017, 11:24:19 am
FMCA offers a couple brands. Not just michelin. All the hoopla over them being designed to do "xxxxxxx" does not sway my decision to never run michelins on any rv I own. They explode often and with expensive consequences. My current non michelins will be replaced with even cheaper non michelins that I hopefully will be able to wear out in 10 years!
A lot of factors are involved in tire failures. The rated load printed on the tire is only at the specified pressure. Pillow soft pressures together with summer heat and pot holes shorten tire life. Don't ever let air out of a tire in hot weather. Winter storage without raising pressures and taking some of the load off the tires also contribute to the chances of a failure.
How do you engineer a truck front beam axle, rigid axle or solid axle around a particular brand of tire? Another wives tale.
Yes, tires in Europe have to be specified according to the top speed of the vehicle. As the speed goes up, so does the tire weight plus the compound is much softer and stickier. No, they don't last as long.
Pierce
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Caflashbob on March 09, 2017, 11:51:40 am
Lots of good info. Almost every blown up tire I had in 15 years in high line Rv sales management had, upon inspection, rusted cord belts visible on the inside.
Non dry air...
Use the coach air output after raising your D2 pressure to 110-130 on and off.
No cute little compressors unless you have an air dryer after it...
Country coach had Les Schwab mount up double sets of everything available to test their first IFS coaches with the proviso that CC would order their production tires from them.
Foretravel did the same thing in Nac.
We could have a labor consuming tire test if anyone wanted.
Did this several times on my lot with older coaches
Lots of volume in those days to use for testing. 1988 I sold 41 used. 59 new.
Be safe.
Caster and camber I think were the settings done for the specific tires.
Shocks were set at 1/2 turn originally and most were reset to 1 1/2 turns. At least in my store after a bit of driving.
FSD's are a component here I feel.
Had many spirited discussions with highly opinionated owners about tires 30 years ago, which is good.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Mike Leary (RIP) on March 09, 2017, 12:01:06 pm
We had a spare, canvas wrapped, on the roof when we bought the coach. Since I've blown a spare that scared the pucky out of me, I took it down and threw it away.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: John Haygarth on March 09, 2017, 12:08:33 pm
Suspect the "what divisions of Michelin offer the program" was strictly a Michelin decision. FMCA is quite aware of members on both sides of the border.
Exactly my point Brett, this was not an FMCA decision based on "better tyres" but a marketing issue by Michelin, that was my point on Bobs comment about CM picking that make over others equally as good. JohnH
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Jeff & Sandy on March 09, 2017, 12:11:56 pm
I am very happy with my Michelins.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Caflashbob on March 09, 2017, 12:16:16 pm
Cm and boney Moore and don shipe all drove personal unihomes and switched tires on coaches to test them..
Hated cm's as Marie like green. Gag.
Customers asked why their demos did not have the std tires.
Testing.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Dave Head on March 09, 2017, 02:07:43 pm
I run Michelin in the front and Toyos in the back. The fronts cost as much as the 4 in back.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Dave Larsen on March 09, 2017, 02:11:58 pm
I just put Toyo M154's on the front in November. I have not seen any evidence that Michelin tires are superior and worth spending hundreds more on.
Having the same tires on the front as the rear is as important as having matching Kleenex boxes inside the coach. :)
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Mike Leary (RIP) on March 09, 2017, 02:28:42 pm
I just put Toyo M154's on the front in November. I have not seen any evidence that Michelin tires are superior and worth spending hundreds more on.
Having the same tires on the front as the rear is as important as having matching Kleenex boxes inside the coach. :)
As long as the coach is weighed on all four corners, so as to know tire pressures, you would do fine with any tire, for a while.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on March 09, 2017, 03:20:34 pm
We went from LRG BF Goodrich to LRH Michelins last summer. Better ride, better in the wind, better noise, better feeling safe. No idea if any other tires would have done the same. There were almost the most expensive by about four tanks of fuel over six years compared to the cheapest tires. I am rotating them so that the steers are never more than three years old. We are doing what makes us happy as my friend Dave M often told me. I think he knew what he was talking about. Bless his heart.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Mike Brez on March 09, 2017, 06:45:05 pm
I would take a look at Hankooks. I personally after having a sidewall blow out on brand new factory Firestone tires would not even put them on a wagon. I'm running Samson's right now and will look at them and Hankooks when the time comes.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: FourTravelers on March 09, 2017, 09:20:40 pm
This thread reminds me of the age old debate............ Which is better Ford or Chevy? We all have our preferences, along with our good and bad experiences. Do what makes you happy, because if you don't and you have a bad experience, you will just beat yourself up over it. Personally ...... I like rounds ones...... :D
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Mike Brez on March 09, 2017, 10:28:42 pm
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Old phart phred on March 09, 2017, 11:58:12 pm
Personally ...... I like rounds ones...... :D [/quote] Round, black and suitable construction for the Intended purpose. All racing sports cars balance the available traction on each end. Doesn't matter what tire supplier except for the fact that you don't get any sponsor money unless they match. Depending on the venue Left compound might not match right, or even 4 different compounds. Back to the coach aspect the front's don't need to match the backs as the tires have no clue whose tire or even what diameter, traction coefficient, or pressure within reason. If your to point that you have to worry about understeer or oversteer change your driving habits. Soft compounds may be a safer as our tires tend to "age out" before they wear out and may save your bacon. Just my 2 cents worth.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Keith and Joyce on March 10, 2017, 01:12:29 pm
FMCA now offers Continentals as well as Michelin.
Does not matter if rear tires are different from fronts. Put same tires on front and make sure that they are rated for the weight. On dual sets match tires on each side so that they are the same diameter otherwise the larger tire will be bearing more weight. There are a lot of factors affecting the loaded and rolling radius of tires but making sure they are of the same height is good enough for our purposes.
I think Michelin are over priced especially for RV use. So long as you say within the tires speed rating - most large tires are rated for 75 mph - you will be OK. Main thing is keep to the required pressures.
Keith
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: bigdog on March 10, 2017, 02:35:21 pm
This thread reminds me of the age old debate............ Which is better Ford or Chevy? We all have our preferences, along with our good and bad experiences. Do what makes you happy, because if you don't and you have a bad experience, you will just beat yourself up over it. Personally ...... I like rounds ones...... :D
I was like that when I owned a small trucking company. I always bought Michelin's (at a premium) because of their reputation. What I found was that they lasted no longer nor gave me any quantifiable benefit that justified their high cost. No matter the tire brand I used, I was always smoking through steer tires every 60-70K because of the fact that Fed-Ex NEVER aligned their single axle "pup" trailers. Which meant that it put forces on the chassis that HAD to be countered through physics with the steering. I started using general tires and never had construction issues with them and I saved money. If I remember correctly, Generals are associated with Continental. As is Bridgestone & Firestone. I usually got 300,000 to 400,000 miles from the 8 drive axle tires.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Mike Leary (RIP) on March 10, 2017, 03:06:17 pm
Maybe in other parts of the country, as well, but in Oregon and Washington, they leave the scales open. You then know the load rating needed, as well as the psi required. A lot of outlets cannot balance the large tires correctly, nor do they know what a torque wrench is. Our Michelin 255.XRV/80R/22.5s were rated for our scale weights. They replaced the valve stems with aluminum,new dual seal caps, and wheel studs where needed. We had the front end aligned, as well. We run these in the low eighties, on all six. It tracks and rides so well, compared to previous coaches we had! ^.^d
Title: Tires
Post by: John and Stacey on March 19, 2017, 01:29:34 pm
Lets walk this dog one more time. Well looks like it may be time to change out my tires as they are mfg. date of 2011. They are Michelin and seem to be in very good shape with no unusual wear or weathering. I would like a few opinions on whether to change steer tires, drive tires or all tires from your experiences.
John
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: bbeane on March 19, 2017, 01:38:39 pm
You might want to do a search on the Forum. You will likely find all your answers there plus a whole bunch of opinions.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Caflashbob on March 19, 2017, 01:45:45 pm
What exact model? The latest tires ride better, turn better, go straight better and are quieter, and get noticeably better mileage
No cracking and if only used dry air or dry nitrogen so no internal rusting the choice is yours.
More value to six year old barely used tires I would think. No cracking so they would pass yard inspection for a trucking co
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Mike Leary (RIP) on March 19, 2017, 01:45:59 pm
Back to basics: was the coach weighed at install & psi adjusted? Has the psi been monitored over the years? Front end aligned? Use of U.V. and rubber protector? These all count. Maybe some do, I used to, but no longer rotate tires. Michelin has a handy chart for checking sidewall age. ^.^d
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Barry & Cindy on March 19, 2017, 01:55:37 pm
We change all tires at same time, at about 6 or 7 years DOT age, always with Michelin. Used to go for XZA3+, but now they have been replaced with a new model. We also always go for LoadRange H as we feel we cannot have too much capacity and the price difference between LR-G and LR-H is reasonable. We carry 100 psi all around with no big concern if tires get down to low 90 psi due to time, altitude or temperature. We eventually pump them back up to 100 psi. To simplify, we use regular air, not nitrogen, usually filling with our own compressor. Angled inner dual stem out at tire change time. Dynamic spin balance front & sometimes rear too, never powder, granules or golf balls for balancing. One dealer offered us $150 for each tire if less than 5 years DOT age.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Mike Leary (RIP) on March 19, 2017, 02:24:07 pm
I've run Michelins for years. I like the tires, dealerships and their attention to detail. A thought just came up, someone know if there is any difference between "spin balance" and "force balance". Ours were "force balanced" by the PO at the big firm in Phoenix, sure rides well! ^.^d
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: John and Stacey on March 19, 2017, 02:29:17 pm
A little info on "Force Balancing "Road Force Balancing | MotorWeek (http://www.motorweek.org/features/goss_garage/road_force_balancing)
John
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: John and Stacey on March 19, 2017, 02:58:16 pm
Looks like I am going to replace steering tires for now as DW will never let it rest if I don't or anything happens.....Cheap closure on this issue for now. She said' "I am not going on a 3 week trip on the old ones".
What Michelin tires are we buying these days.
John
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Mike Leary (RIP) on March 19, 2017, 03:18:23 pm
Quote from: John and Stacey link=msg=265362 date=1489949896 She said' "I am not going on a 3 week trip on the old ones". What Michelin tires are we buying these days. [/quote
We run the "XRV" tires. By the way, the DW is always right!
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Barry & Cindy on March 19, 2017, 03:31:31 pm
In our experience, cost seems to run about $600 /tire out the door, with FMCA discount or without if getting a 'good' price.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: morninghill on March 19, 2017, 04:57:57 pm
We have the new Michelin x line energy z tires. They whine more than the Toyos we replaced. Other than that, no complaints.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on March 19, 2017, 07:36:58 pm
Mike, I thought our new Michelin's whined a bit more as well. I am either used to it or after 5K+ miles they eased into life on a coach. I like the ride and handling, better in cross winds than what we had.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Caflashbob on March 19, 2017, 07:48:23 pm
The tiny wandering and the noise went away after a few days of driving on my Xza-3+'s.
Not sure if the Toyos are generally quieter but in looking they did not appear the have the directional sipes on the edges that seem to help the self steering. They may make a small amount of extra noise but that's unknown
Perfect.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: morninghill on March 19, 2017, 09:48:39 pm
Don't want to mislead anyone. The whine is not significant, only shows up at some speeds and some surfaces. Would buy the same tires again.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on March 19, 2017, 11:48:17 pm
You are right Mike and the road surface itself is the main noise driver.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: John Haygarth on March 20, 2017, 12:36:36 am
Toyo's are my preference and ours are all balanced, front and rear. yes, the stick on weights needed on the rears do not look the best but I have not had one person mention them (or even notice maybe) JohnH
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: John and Stacey on March 20, 2017, 08:11:29 am
Has anyone increased the size of the tires they are using to 285 or 295??
John
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Caflashbob on March 20, 2017, 08:40:02 am
The centrimatics self balancers allows you to skip the weight balancing.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: jcus on March 20, 2017, 09:00:37 am
Has anyone increased the size of the tires they are using to 285 or 295??
John
Just put goodyear 399 295/75/22.5 on my 270, no problems.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: wolfe10 on March 20, 2017, 09:08:51 am
275/80R22.5 and 295/75R22.5 are very, very close in size, and both come in both G and H load range (you want H). They can be substitutes easily on most applications. If cut angles put front tires close to suspension parts with the 275's stick with them or know you will have to adjust the Sheppard steering box (easy to do), as the 295 is slightly wider.
Never heard of a 285.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Alan & Gerri Ortiz on March 20, 2017, 09:09:17 am
We put Continental 295/75/22.5 on ours this past November. Had new air bags and shocks at same time. PO had these as well. Love them. Oh, Load range H. Loved the price ($2,600 out the door for six) and competitive choice of dealers locally.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: wolfe10 on March 20, 2017, 09:11:44 am
And Continentals are now on a fleet program with FMCA: Continental Tire Program (http://www.fmca.com/benefits/continental-tire-program.html)
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: amos.harrison on March 20, 2017, 09:16:02 am
I continue to replace my Michelins at 10 year DOT age-always properly cared for, but I only get $60 per tire as take-offs.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: John and Stacey on March 20, 2017, 09:18:13 am
Conti does show a 285 75 22.5
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: bdale on March 20, 2017, 09:27:59 am
The centrimatics self balancers allows you to skip the weight balancing.
+1 on the recommendation for Centramatics. I've been running them on Michelins for about 3 years now with no other balancing required. They cost more initially but you never have to balance again.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: wolfe10 on March 20, 2017, 09:50:11 am
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Jerry Whiteaker on March 20, 2017, 09:54:02 am
Anyone buying new tires should do a tight turn before leaving the dealer to make sure that there is clearance between the tire and the air spring plate. Some tire brands are a bit larger than the Michelin's even though the number size may be exactly the same. Also Michelin seems to think that steer tires are for all positions on an RV. Ok on dry pavement, but not so good on grass and mud.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Horace B. Cupp on March 20, 2017, 10:15:21 am
Jerry, I though that the word "steer" stampted on the Michelin tire was to indicate the direction in which the tire should roll,when mounted, not the position on the vehicle that it should be mounted. Am I wrong?
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on March 20, 2017, 10:19:25 am
There are Steer, Drive and trailer tires. All have different loads on the tire. I have steers on all six positions. I am moving the front tires to the rear and getting new front tires every three years. Six years on each tire.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on March 20, 2017, 10:31:42 am
Usually the words steer, traction and all-position indicate where they mount.
While our 295/75-22.5 don't touch the bags in parking lot turns, they will keep the bag ends polished as they do touch in quite a few situations. Don't think this would be a factor with the Continental plastic end bags either as it's not a big deal. Our 295s are about 3/4" of an inch wider than the 275 Michelins. May be different brand to brand.
We mount all position or steer tires for all six locations. Traction tires may introduce some noise into the coach. We don't move the coach without a spare tire onboard so it would be more difficult if we had two different types of tread patterns. Keeping fingers crossed but we have never had a traction problem even heading down from the highway to the ocean in sandy/dirt river beds in Baja or forest service roads here in the states.
Pierce
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Barry & Cindy on March 20, 2017, 11:23:39 am
It's my understanding that tires with angled sipes (cuts across tread) are directional and must be mounted so they turn in the direction of the arrow. If the sipes are not angled or tires are not siped, they can be mounted to rotate in either direction. Siping - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siping_)(rubber)
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on March 20, 2017, 11:51:08 am
Another good reason for choosing a spare that can mount anywhere!
P
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: John and Stacey on March 20, 2017, 12:37:55 pm
Another good reason for choosing a spare that can mount anywhere!
We have one on the roof, but it's not going to be me that lowers it down! ^.^d
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: wolfe10 on March 20, 2017, 01:11:34 pm
Quite proper to put "steer tires" on all axles of a Class A motorhome. The exception would be for the rare owner who does un-paved roads, deep snow, etc where they would get a more aggressive tread for the drive axle.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Mike Leary (RIP) on March 20, 2017, 01:26:14 pm
The exception would be for the rare owner who does un-paved roads, deep snow, etc where they would get a more aggressive tread for the drive axle.
Good point, up north I always ran a "aggressive" tread, knowing "harms way" was my world. As much as I love the tread we have, I'd be freaked out driving in the "nasty". I have never had a tire outlet ask, "where are you going to be driving?"
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Roland Begin on March 20, 2017, 02:24:00 pm
Yes I use them. I used them on my class A truck when I was driving over the road so putting them on the coach was just natural. Advantage for me is is easier to air up the tires and I only need one tire pressure monitor sensor for each dually. May not be for everyone but I like them.
Roland
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Jerry Whiteaker on March 20, 2017, 03:09:12 pm
Jerry, I though that the word "steer" stampted on the Michelin tire was to indicate the direction in which the tire should roll,when mounted, not the position on the vehicle that it should be mounted. Am I wrong?
I do not know the answer to your statement. I thought that steer meant that it was a tire for the wheels that do the steering. That may be incorrect. From personal experience though I can say that these tires do not have much traction on slippery surfaces like wet grass and muddy places. I will not purchase new tires that do not have cross grooves in the thread. I see tires with this type of thread on the front wheels of truck/tractors, but have not seen them on the drive wheels. The type of thread I am talking about has grooves in the direction of travel, but only some sipes across the tire. I don't normally drive on dirt roads, but there is the possibility that I could encounter a slippery spot.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Mike Leary (RIP) on March 20, 2017, 03:33:14 pm
Maybe things have changed, but the info for our Michelin XRV 255/80R 22.5 tires, say, "The all-wheel position/all-steel radial tire designed specifically to provide exceptional performance for recreational vehicles." I sure like them, down here! ^.^d
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Jet Doc on March 20, 2017, 09:50:18 pm
Agressive treads are better left for the things we tow behind our FT's. 17-20K pounds sitting on dual "steer" tires will dig down farther into dirt, mud or snow than we can recover from without help from Jamie Davis and his rotator. Personally, I'll take the quiet ride from 6 steer tires and leave the fun stuff for the Jeep and ATV.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: John Haygarth on March 20, 2017, 11:51:16 pm
I have steer on all corners and even thru the ugly travel down thru Washington and N California this Jan with the snow and ice I had no problem driving the highway even with many "chain up " signs and stops we went thru. My only problem was trying to get up a steady climb into a Truck stop with jack knifed trucks etc all over the place. Second try made it up. That trip was an oddity with weather for sure. Never again leaving it that late to get away. JohnH
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: JohnFitz on March 21, 2017, 10:27:38 am
Yes, I like them. Details in this thread here: Valve stem experiences, not hearsay. (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=29499.msg250428#msg250428)
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Michelle on March 21, 2017, 03:36:45 pm
Jerry, I though that the word "steer" stampted on the Michelin tire was to indicate the direction in which the tire should roll,when mounted, not the position on the vehicle that it should be mounted. Am I wrong?
Based on what's on my car, directional tires from Michelin are usually molded with "Rotation" and an arrow to show relative mounting. If a steer tire is directional as well it should be labeled that way.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: wolfe10 on March 21, 2017, 04:58:09 pm
Based on what's on my car, directional tires from Michelin are usually molded with "Rotation" and an arrow to show relative mounting. If a steer tire is directional as well it should be labeled that way.
Correct. No arrow, not a directionally sensitive tire. Said another way, without arrows indicating direction of rotation, the tires can be mounted and rotated through in any direction.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: saddlesore on March 21, 2017, 06:56:59 pm
Has anyone increased the size of the tires they are using to 285 or 295?? John
295/75 and 275/80 have a slightly different aspect ratio (relationship of the height to the width) with the 295/75s being less than one inch wider. Their diameters are very close to the same and only vary by the manufacturer. They both turn about the same number of revolutions per mile so no real difference. They have no problem clearing each other in the rear. A 285/75 would be smaller (diameter is less) than the 275/80-22.5 Michelin and turn more revolutions per mile. So, going to a 295/75 is not increasing the size, just a tiny bit on the width.
Pierce
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Horace B. Cupp on March 21, 2017, 10:43:54 pm
I was not as clear in my original post as I should have been . The Michelins on my coach did have the word "steer" and there was a curved arrow as well. This is what led me to believe that the direction of rotation was indicated, particularly as the arrow was pointing in that direction on all 6 visible sidewalls. Remember that the DOTdate is only visible on the outer wall of the tire.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: wolfe10 on March 22, 2017, 08:56:11 am
Remember that the DOTdate is only visible on the outer wall of the tire.
Well, it WILL be on only one sidewall. Could be facing in or out depending on the installer.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Jerry Whiteaker on March 22, 2017, 10:25:16 am
Don't get me wrong about the Michelin tires. They have good traction on wet and dry pavement and are quiet. My problem happened in the storage lot where I keep the coach. Level ground mostly dirt with some grass.. After a rain as I tried to leave the rear wheels were spinning, but I made it out. Had to get a shovel and fill in the tracks, and I bought some large gravel (1.5 - 2") to go in the tracks under the coach where I park. Haven't had a problem since then, but I haven't had to move the coach after a rain.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: P. Wyatt Sabourin on March 22, 2017, 12:45:38 pm
Wolfe10 in reply #19 said: "If cut angles put front tires close to suspension parts with the 275's stick with them or know you will have to adjust the Sheppard steering box (easy to do), as the 295 is slightly wider."
Ability to limit how far the steer tires move for steering by adjusting the Sheppard steering box depends on which box. I believe the U295s & U270s had manual adjustable stops, however, the U320 had "AUTO" cast into the case and they adjust automatically. So while limiting the steer tire movement to prevent rubbing with wider tires is possible with a manually adjusted steering box, it will not work with the "AUTO" adjustable steering box.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Ted & Karen on March 22, 2017, 12:55:00 pm
Bigdog- would you use General commercial tires on your coach also? Why or why not?
I ask because I recently replaced the Michelins on my Subaru Outback ( they did not give me the mileage I expected from the tires). I researched like crazy and had Discount Tire order me the General Altimax RT42 tires. Have over 7000 miles on them now, just did the first rotation and very happy how they are running. Best part was that I got the set for $250 ( with some credit for not getting the mileage warranty on the Michelins). That is a lot better than $600-$700 for a set of Michelins.
If the General commercial tires are as good, and less expensive, I would consider putting them on my coach when I replace tires in a couple of years.
Thanks for sharing your experience and opinions. ^.^d
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on March 22, 2017, 02:26:29 pm
I ask because I recently replaced the Michelins on my Subaru Outback ( they did not give me the mileage I expected from the tires). I researched like crazy and had Discount Tire order me the General Altimax RT42 tires. Have over 7000 miles on them now, just did the first rotation and very happy how they are running. Best part was that I got the set for $250 ( with some credit for not getting the mileage warranty on the Michelins). That is a lot better than $600-$700 for a set of Michelins.
I bought a set of Altimax tires for a comparable RAV4 and was very pleased with them. They handled really well, had excellent snow traction here in the Sierras. We were able to pass a couple of other AWD SUVs that were stuck in the middle of the road in a snowstorm. They did start to get a little noisy after about 30K but I have not had any that are not noisy after that many miles. I met another RAV4 owner who was also very pleased with their new set of Altimax tires.
I went with a taller set of Bridgestones last year to cut highway RPM. They are good but I liked the lower profile Altimax better for handling. The OEM Bridgestones did last 80K. Altimax almost that long. Noise gradually increased on both sets. Tried a set of other major brand but they were terrible. Softer ride but bad handling.
I usually use Tire Rack as they bring the tires to the house over the hill from Reno in less than a day. $80 for a local service station to mount, balance and dispose.
Pierce
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: John and Stacey on March 22, 2017, 04:59:16 pm
I have got it down to 2 Michelin 275-80-22.5, X-Line Energy Z, or Toyo 295-75-22.5, model 177, which are almost $200.00 cheaper. Any recommendations or comparisons??
John
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Caflashbob on March 22, 2017, 07:22:51 pm
The Michelin carries the same load at five pounds less pressure,
Directional sipes good till 50% of tread on the energys.
19/32 tread versus 18/32
Dual compound tire versus single.
Posters here have mentioned noticeable difference in ride quality at five pounds difference.
Michelin rates the new energy at 5% less rolling resistance than the Xza-3s I have.
The Xza-3+ we run require watching things more than the Xza-2's they replaced. Coach slows down noticeably less in off throttle.
Keeps rolling.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Dave Head on March 22, 2017, 11:03:50 pm
I thoroughly enjoy my Toyos. I have 4 in the back and 2 Michelin Pilot XZA3 in front.
Toyos are smooth and LR H
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: John and Stacey on March 22, 2017, 11:23:03 pm
I was planning on the Lh H also. Would you put Toyo's on the steering. That is what I am replacing at the moment John
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: John Haygarth on March 23, 2017, 12:19:25 am
Put Toyo steerings on 3 yrs ago and not one complaint. How the heck anyone realistically can tell the difference between these and Mich' is beyond me, I just do not believe the Mich's are worth the extra and I did remove that make for the tires I have on now, front and rear. Loved the T's on my 7 series Bmw much better ride and handling that the M's before them. JohnH
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Caflashbob on March 23, 2017, 12:39:29 am
Most are not sensitive to small driving differences in my experience.
My and it seems Foretravel interest in having the absolute, for sure, best driving and recognizable brand name on the tires gave the prospective buyers no reason to point at the tires and critize them. Which then caused additional price negotiation.
The better the coach rode and drove the happier the new owner was and the factory and my store made more money.
Every unihome and unicoach made as far as i know had .michelins on them.
I suppose the only way to satisfy the issue would be to swap tires and take a long drive.
I relate the self steering sipes to the looser wheel bearing current requirement when servicing.
My preloaded non correct front bearings versus the legal .001 to .003 I currently have has resulted in a small dead spot in the identical steering system.
So the self correcting sipes might have been engineered to help the OTR truckers have their work load reduced.
Michelins original design from the 50's was a straight across steel tread belt carcass with no overlap in the design.
Original Michelin x's self steered wonderfully.
The thicker sidewall design took some of the finesse out of the drive for me.
It's subtle but over long enough it's noticeable. Especislly if you made your living selling these. Only the best tires and shocks. And brakes.
If you had the best demo drive you probably ended up with the sale IMO
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Dave Head on March 23, 2017, 07:44:27 am
Yes - they are long haul steer tires.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Jimmyjnr on April 05, 2017, 02:39:54 pm
Just pricing tires Michelin $4000 otd would not accept provost advantage program Toyo m154 $3200 otd 16ply h range
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Barry & Cindy on April 05, 2017, 02:51:46 pm
Jimmy, did you try the FMCA Michelin discount? Our last purchase was about $600/tire otd with FMCA, but it was a couple of years ago for XZA+ LRH.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Jimmyjnr on April 05, 2017, 02:55:37 pm
It appears that the prevost program requires use of the prevost credit card . Not sure how the fmca program works
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Jimmyjnr on April 05, 2017, 03:00:59 pm
The toyo m154 is an all position tire , les Schwab manager said fitting steer tires m177 on rear could create strange wear pattern !!! Didn't make sense to me !
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Tim Fiedler on April 05, 2017, 03:02:40 pm
These programs are Michelin National Account programs. If not accepted at this dealer find one (like Les Schwab) that does accept national accounts
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Tim Fiedler on April 05, 2017, 03:15:14 pm
Call FMCA, they set it up from their end (authorizations to the dealer), you use your credit card as I recall
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: wolfe10 on April 05, 2017, 03:57:29 pm
Yes, with FMCA, you use your regular credit card to pay for tires and FET. Then you pay the dealer for mount, balance and local/state tax.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Jimmyjnr on April 05, 2017, 04:09:08 pm
Ok I need to join fmca , that's if everyone agrees that Michelin tires are the best option!!!!!!
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Tom Lang on April 05, 2017, 04:26:59 pm
Ok I need to join fmca , that's if everyone agrees that Michelin tires are the best option!!!!!!
You can het into the Michelin Advantage program without joining FMCA. Just join the Prevost group (it's free).
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Texas Guy on April 05, 2017, 05:24:37 pm
Come on and join FMCA, you will love it. The magazine is great and you can
get tips in there from Bret, as well.
Carter-
FMCA 47023
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Jimmyjnr on April 05, 2017, 07:07:25 pm
Left at message at Foretravel, I never took my free year , so maybe
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Jet Doc on April 05, 2017, 07:38:26 pm
I just put 2 Uniroyal RS20's 275/80R22.5 on my steer axle. Tire shop pressurized them to 120 PSI. Couldn't find a weight/air press chart for these tires online so left them at 120. Took a short 300 mile trip last week. Good handling and the ride was good too even at 120 psi. OTD was $690 for the pair. Getting 4 more on the other end. Noticed no difference from the Mich's I replaced except extra $ still in my pocket.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Wattalife54 on April 06, 2017, 08:02:24 am
Mike & Mari, We have the same tires. $2200 out the door for all six. I got in contact with Uniroyal customer service concerning the tire pressures. They recommended getting corner weights and use the below chart. We are at 110 psi steer and 85 psi drive. The ride is superior to the Goodyears we removed.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: toyman on April 06, 2017, 12:57:01 pm
My size isn't listed.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on April 06, 2017, 01:12:45 pm
For the 275/80R 22.5 LRH. Use the 11R22.5 chart.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Mike Leary (RIP) on April 06, 2017, 02:10:03 pm
I see our Michelin XRV 255/80/R-22 were replaced in late '13, can't find the mileage, but the files show she only made a couple of trips in home state Arizona only until we bought her in late '14. So, I'm thinking 3k, was weighed and runs 82psi all around. Look brand new and track perfect! I've never used canvas covers on any of our coaches; instead, use "No Touch" spray. My files show our version of the tire, in the brochure, is "highway tread/summer". Which means to me if I was going back up north, these tires would not be suitable. Something to consider when buying fresh! ^.^d
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on April 06, 2017, 03:07:49 pm
We made a winter trip to Yellowstone and then Detroit a couple of years ago. We all piled in the RAV4 for the trip as I didn't want to drive the U300 on salted roads. Nearing Yellowstone, there were a flock of Bighorn Sheep blocking the highway. After passing through them, I asked the ranger station why the normally rare to see sheep were down on the road. His answer was that since that highway was just outside the park, the highway department salted the road and that attracted the sheep.
Having just installed a new chrome hitch ball in California, I was very surprised to see it was completely rusted when we arrived in Detroit. Since we all know we don't have the most rust resistant undercarriages on our coaches, it does not seem to be wise to intentionally expose our pride and joys to road chemicals. Since it's not really possible to fit chains to our tires, it seem doubly unwise to temp fate in winter.
Now and again, we drive in heavy rain. Our highway tread/summer tires have never hydroplaned or caused any anxiety on or off road.
Pierce
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Jet Doc on April 07, 2017, 12:35:41 am
I saw this online but wondered about the 11R22.5...figured this was probably the chart I was looking for but not exact size. I am 9500ish on front. Will prob stay with 95-100 psi for safety sake. Like I said, the ride with 120 psi was not disagreeable, so any less pressure would be a bonus. 👍 Thanks Roger
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on April 07, 2017, 01:19:08 am
We had an 11R22.5 for a spare but it's not a viable option for anything. It's about an inch taller and will do more than polish the front airbag flanges.
Our 295/75's get nothing but 110psi cold. No ride problem.
Pierce
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: amos.harrison on April 07, 2017, 09:58:00 pm
Ride comfort should not be the only criteria. Contact patch size is critical.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: jcus on April 07, 2017, 10:22:31 pm
Was up at OTM last week getting my transmission oil changed. Mentioned to Wayne [ex. FOT alignment guy] that my coach was wandering and I had to make constant corrections, when on roads with a little crown. He glanced under the wheel well and said he had aligned it before. He then asked what my tires had in them. I said 100 psi. Had a cat weigh slip with me, he looked at it and said try 75 psi all around. Seemed too low, so I tried 85 psi. Big, Big improvement. My coach is pretty light at 27500 fully loaded. Better ride too, do not feel every tar strip anymore.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Wattalife54 on April 07, 2017, 10:54:26 pm
Wayne made the same changes when we had a alignment. He lowered the pressures from the chart to what he felt was right. Three years later the tires were shot. I will never let anyone talk me out of following the manufacturers load/pressure chart again.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on April 07, 2017, 10:56:39 pm
Our PO put LRG tires on the coach. When we had it weighed , all four corners with proper coach loads, at the 2015 GV we were right at the limits of the LRG in the front. We switched to LRH last summer and adjusted air pressure for the maximum load on each axle plus 5 psi. Better ride, better handling especially in cross winds. 75 psi even in an empty coach just seems too low to be safe.
Wayne made the same changes when we had a alignment. He lowered the pressures from the chart to what he felt was right. Three years later the tires were shot. I will never let anyone talk me out of following the manufacturers load/pressure chart again.
Actually I have goodyear 295/75/22.H's, and goodyear recommends 75 psi for my coach weight. I went 85 psi for a margin of safety.
Max Speed Inflation Pressure - PSI Goodyear spec's
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Barry & Cindy on April 08, 2017, 06:28:21 pm
We carry 100 all around and most of the time with temp and elevation changes, the tires are often closer to 95 when cold.
Standard comment from Wayne is to use much lower pressures all around, even though tire charts show closer to 100 if taking in consideration extra 10% for wind and cornering weight shifts + a safety margin.
We never follow Wayne's advice. We take safety over comfort. BTW we are riding on XZA3+ LRH.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: jcus on April 08, 2017, 07:21:37 pm
We carry 100 all around and most of the time with temp and elevation changes, the tires are often closer to 95 when cold.
Standard comment from Wayne is to use much lower pressures all around, even though tire charts show closer to 100 if taking in consideration extra 10% for wind and cornering weight shifts + a safety margin.
We never follow Wayne's advice. We take safety over comfort. BTW we are riding on XZA3+ LRH.
Actually, Wayne's advice, 75 psi was exactly what the goodyear tire chart recommended for my coach weight, I added 10 psi more for safety. Checked tire temps at 100 psi and 85 psi and found little difference in temps, so obviously not wearing out the tire at lower pressures, and better handling and ride as well.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Caflashbob on April 08, 2017, 07:47:07 pm
Mine are supposed to be 87, 97. At 32,000 actual load. Full fuel, water, stuff
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Jet Doc on April 08, 2017, 08:16:05 pm
After checking my notes, I'm 10,500 on the front (not 9500) and 17,100 on the duals full fuel, water and most "stuff". I figure no more than an additional 300 LBS of booze, ice, food and clothes (in order of importance 😉) so next trip out I'll try 100 in the steer and 85 on the back. Should have plenty of safety margin. My coach has a case of the wanders also, so maybe an air pressure adjustment instead of 2-3 CB's and 3 days in the pit will fix it. Had the same wander with the Mich's. Can't blame the new tires.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: krush on April 08, 2017, 08:20:34 pm
We carry 100 all around and most of the time with temp and elevation changes, the tires are often closer to 95 when cold.
I run 100 all the way around too. It's not too much PSI as the tires still flex some, visually. I have the crossfire equalizers on the rears at 100PSI. I don't think 10-15psi would give me that much smoother ride.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Caflashbob on April 08, 2017, 08:46:35 pm
Jet Doc five psi is noticeable on tire pressures.
100 for your front axle weight seems high. Probably mid 80's
Especially if you are mentioning a wander issue
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on April 08, 2017, 08:48:57 pm
After checking my notes, I'm 10,500 on the front (not 9500) and 17,100 on the duals full fuel, water and most "stuff". I figure no more than an additional 300 LBS of booze, ice, food and clothes (in order of importance 😉) so next trip out I'll try 100 in the steer and 85 on the back. Should have plenty of safety margin. My coach has a case of the wanders also, so maybe an air pressure adjustment instead of 2-3 CB's and 3 days in the pit will fix it. Had the same wander with the Mich's. Can't blame the new tires.
You probably have inadequate toe in. The biggest reason for not tracking straight, especially on uneven roads.
Pierce
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: cubesphere on April 12, 2017, 09:21:30 am
I just had 2 new steers (Toyo) put on. I really like the way they feel when driving on narrow roads. With that said, it will take some time to see how they compare to the Michelins I had on. The tire tech told me that new tires should not be balanced internally or externally! News to me, however, he said that if the tire feels a little out of balance, the right way to get it right is to relocate tire on the rim. I brought the coach up to 80 to see and to my amazement, no shake, wobble. I learn something new everyday.
800.00 for 2 tires with mounting.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: John44 on April 12, 2017, 11:00:28 am
That's a new one,thought about it for a while,if you try and balance by relocating the tire on the rim you would have to balance the rim and the tire seperately.If you go by his reasoning and you "feel" a wobble then that means the tire itself is out of balance. Just sounds very strange to me.Which Toyos did you get?
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on April 12, 2017, 11:41:44 am
I just had 2 new steers (Toyo) put on. I brought the coach up to 80 to see and to my amazement, no shake, wobble. I learn something new everyday.
80 what? PSI or MPH? If 80 psi, what did you start with? Seems very low to me. We have always run 110 psi in the 295s.
Pierce
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: John and Stacey on April 12, 2017, 12:07:21 pm
John, The Toyo's I put on mine were Toyo M177's, 295 75 22.5 H rated. Paid $400.00/tire in Sealy TX. Have not been on a real trip yet. Going to Kerrville Sunday for a week. Will give an update when we return.
John
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Mike Leary (RIP) on April 12, 2017, 12:47:58 pm
The tire tech told me that new tires should not be balanced internally or externally! News to me, however, he said that if the tire feels a little out of balance, the right way to get it right is to relocate tire on the rim. I brought the coach up to 80 to see and to my amazement, no shake, wobble. I learn something new everyday.
Unless you're hauling the DWs rock collection, 82 psi is where we sit after being weighed. I do have files that show the PO bought these Michelins from some FMCA deal. The outlet, (not Bubba's tire store) charged them almost $700.00 after the "good deal". I would have done the same thing; I made no mark-up/profit on the tires, so the force balance,/dismount/remount were charged for. Yes, extras were new aluminum valve stems, and fresh wheel studs all around, but the outlet charged accordingly! ^.^d
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: cubesphere on April 12, 2017, 06:23:16 pm
Sorry guy's,
80mph is what I should have said with 115psi. The tires are m170Z, 295/75 22.5.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: amos.harrison on April 13, 2017, 11:56:47 am
You know our tires are speed-limited to 75mph, right? I'd hate to think you were damaging your tires right off the bat.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on April 13, 2017, 12:41:33 pm
Tires have a huge safety factor built in and 75 mph rating also covers tire company liability. Big rigs abuse the 75 mph rating all the time but the drivers are professional and are much better able to handle an emergency. Naturally, a blowout at 80 is a lot different than 55. Good video of what can happen to a RV in less than two seconds on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LkLeljt4t0
While the tire may not be damaged going 80, a road gator may give you a bite anytime. The guy above was going a lot faster than 55 and pretty typical of what would happen to the majority of RVs at that speed with a blowout.
Pierce
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: cubesphere on April 13, 2017, 08:28:37 pm
The speed limit here is 70mph and I only took the coach to 80 briefly to check for how well balanced the tires feel. I have been a professional racer most of my life, and have over 2 million safe driving miles with Trucks hauling heavy equipment, cranes etc. I know what my limitations are barring a mechanical failure. Pierce is right, big safety margins are built into these tires as well as most equipment. Crawler cranes are rated at 75 percent with a 25 percent margin tipping and structural. I do not advocate exceeding ones own skill set!
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Chuck Pearson on April 14, 2017, 07:50:48 am
Yikes! Sobering video. Looking at it I wonder if having the toad was a positive or negative factor. It seemed like it was initially working to keep the wheels in line right up to the point when the front end tucked under.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: cubesphere on April 14, 2017, 08:36:57 am
" Looking at it I wonder if having the toad was a positive or negative factor. "
That is entirely dependent on how the braking system functions on the toad relative to the coach. The toad could be used as an anchor to help keep coach in a straight line, however, in most cases the weight of the toad just adds to a loss of complete equilibrium, not good. Most of the time in racing, there is an old saying, when in doubt gas it for good reason although, counter intuitive to most.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on April 14, 2017, 10:42:26 am
Count the tenths of a second in the slow motion of the tire failure. One second later, it's way too late to keep it on the highway. He had to turn the wheel hard to the right in several hundreds of a second and at 80 mph, he was light years too slow.
I had the exact same blowout years ago southbound on I-5 in California's Central Valley. The tires were only a month old. It made a funny noise each rotation for about a half second and then a huge bang right below me. I was in the fast lane at about 65 mph and it instantly headed toward the center divider. It really only moved a couple of feet before I had a lot of correction in the wheel. Just lots of tire noise after that. I got it stopped pretty quickly on the shoulder but the tire was in small pieces after that.
In case anyone is wondering, there is no time to even contemplate using the brakes. It's steering input that happens way before anything else. The nice truck blowout video on the straight and level highway is wishful thinking. Blowouts can happen on off ramps, turns, mountain roads with downhill turns. Each case is unique. One Foreforum member bought a coach that had a blowout on a curve and went down the side of a hill. After getting pulled out, he put a back tire on the front and drove across Mexico with only one tire on one side in the back. Tires DO have a pretty good safety margin to have survived this. Why would you do this???
Pierce
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: craneman on April 14, 2017, 11:08:57 am
I had the front right blow out on the '81 on HWY. 14 in Mojave. It was not so much counter steer as hold my line when it popped. Until getting slowed down, I didn't use the brakes. I was towing my Grand Cherokee with the brake buddy.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Mike Leary (RIP) on April 14, 2017, 12:14:23 pm
We had the same thing happen. It was so noisy, I thought something had let go in the whole front end! Same deal, no brakes, just found a (sorta o.k.) place to pull over. I was sticking out in the lane a little, called for assistance and put the markers out. Cop pulled behind, looked at the trashed tire, and said, "you are one lucky driver." ^.^d
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: ChuSmith on April 14, 2017, 12:38:45 pm
John, The Toyo's I put on mine were Toyo M177's, 295 75 22.5 H rated. Paid $400.00/tire in Sealy TX. Have not been on a real trip yet. Going to Kerrville Sunday for a week. Will give an update when we return.
John
Hi John, just got new TOYO's all round (Same size) as well. From Lampasas Tire to the house they road nice. May make a trip to Port A in May so will have a better idea about their performance. Interested to hear how your Kerrville trip goes. Safe travels, Chuck
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Jimmyjnr on April 21, 2017, 10:03:07 pm
Replaced the 7 year old Michelins today, With toyos , initial impression is that they are quieter and definitely less "float " on steering , I can only assume this is due to stiffer sidewall . Thanks to everyone for their input
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: speedbird1 on April 21, 2017, 10:53:22 pm
On my recent trip to NAC and back I weighed my 2001, U320 coach and Toad at a nice new scale in Casper, WY for $9. I came up with a front axle weight of 12,860lb and the rear (no Tag) 19940. That is a fully equipped coach on the road with full fuel and ready to go on a voyage. The Toad (Daihatsu Rocky) was 3020lbs. I run Michelin 275/80 22.5, LRH tires. With those weights I should run the front at 105psi and the rear at 90psi according to the FT chart. I had been running 100psi cold on the front and 95psi cold on the rear. NOT CORRECT as I did not take into consideration the heat build-up while running. My fronts were showing 120psi on the TPMS and if you look at the Alcoa rims they are rated only for 120psi so I was on the upper limit. So the answer is to have a cold pressure that gives me 105psi Front and 90psi Rear, for my weights, on the road. My cold pressure is about 82psi. on the front and 80psi on the rear. Others may disagree and with different tires there will be a variation, as will different weights of course. But I am a lot closer than I was before and it steers a bit better. Next challenge is to check to alignment?? That is next weeks job. Speedbird 1
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: craneman on April 21, 2017, 11:00:32 pm
On my recent trip to NAC and back I weighed my 2001, U320 coach and Toad at a nice new scale in Casper, WY for $9. I came up with a front axle weight of 12,860lb and the rear (no Tag) 19940. That is a fully equipped coach on the road with full fuel and ready to go on a voyage. The Toad (Daihatsu Rocky) was 3020lbs. I run Michelin 275/80 22.5, LRH tires. With those weights I should run the front at 105psi and the rear at 90psi according to the FT chart. I had been running 100psi cold on the front and 95psi cold on the rear. NOT CORRECT as I did not take into consideration the heat build-up while running. My fronts were showing 120psi on the TPMS and if you look at the Alcoa rims they are rated only for 120psi so I was on the upper limit. So the answer is to have a cold pressure that gives me 105psi Front and 90psi Rear, for my weights, on the road. My cold pressure is about 82psi. on the front and 80psi on the rear. Others may disagree and with different tires there will be a variation, as will different weights of course. But I am a lot closer than I was before and it steers a bit better. Next challenge is to check to alignment?? That is next weeks job. Speedbird 1
Tire pressures are supposed to be set cold. They will always read high when hot. Fronts on my crane cold are 110 I get over 130 0n a very hot day. Page 24 says do not exceed cold pressures marked on the wheel
" Looking at it I wonder if having the toad was a positive or negative factor. "
That is entirely dependent on how the braking system functions on the toad relative to the coach. The toad could be used as an anchor to help keep coach in a straight line, however, in most cases the weight of the toad just adds to a loss of complete equilibrium, not good. Most of the time in racing, there is an old saying, when in doubt gas it for good reason although, counter intuitive to most.
Funny you should say that, on a motorcycle say the same "when in doubt, power out" not quite sure how that works on a rear heavy coach with heavy rear brake bias. One thing for sure experience isn't in textbooks, and unfortunately only one way to get it.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: AC7880 on April 22, 2017, 12:47:00 am
On my recent trip to NAC and back I weighed my 2001, U320 coach and Toad at a nice new scale in Casper, WY for $9. I came up with a front axle weight of 12,860lb and the rear (no Tag) 19940. That is a fully equipped coach on the road with full fuel and ready to go on a voyage. The Toad (Daihatsu Rocky) was 3020lbs. I run Michelin 275/80 22.5, LRH tires. With those weights I should run the front at 105psi and the rear at 90psi according to the FT chart. I had been running 100psi cold on the front and 95psi cold on the rear. NOT CORRECT as I did not take into consideration the heat build-up while running. My fronts were showing 120psi on the TPMS and if you look at the Alcoa rims they are rated only for 120psi so I was on the upper limit. So the answer is to have a cold pressure that gives me 105psi Front and 90psi Rear, for my weights, on the road. My cold pressure is about 82psi. on the front and 80psi on the rear. Others may disagree and with different tires there will be a variation, as will different weights of course. But I am a lot closer than I was before and it steers a bit better. Next challenge is to check to alignment?? That is next weeks job. Speedbird 1
All the tire charts are for cold tire pressure, not for hot after driving.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: speedbird1 on April 22, 2017, 02:31:42 am
My point was not to state the obvious (for some) but to show the numbers from a basic level as related to any similar FT coach of about the same weight. From the forum it has been fairly clear to me that few have any idea of the weight of their coach so my numbers were to give some idea and to start at the beginning!!! Speedbird1.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Michelle on April 22, 2017, 07:46:16 am
I run Michelin 275/80 22.5, LRH tires. With those weights I should run the front at 105psi and the rear at 90psi according to the FT chart.
So the answer is to have a cold pressure that gives me 105psi Front and 90psi Rear, for my weights, on the road. My cold pressure is about 82psi. on the front and 80psi on the rear.
Others may disagree
"Others" include the tire manufacturers, RV Safety, Escapees' Smart Weigh, etc.
As others have stated, your cold pressures in the second paragraph are way too low (20% or more if you are only inflating to 80 psi!). Follow the tire manufacturer's recommendation. You are otherwise risking serious sidewall damage and a blowout.
BTW, the Foretravel chart is for the OEM tires that were installed on your coach, which are no longer made. Be sure to use the most current inflation tables for your tire size and load range. They are slighly different.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: wolfe10 on April 22, 2017, 08:48:56 am
And, if you have a 20 PSI pressure rise (unless you had an extreme ambient temperature swing), it is quite likely you are running insufficient pressure.
An underinflated tire flexes more, which creates HEAT which makes for a larger PSI change.
And, as all have stated, 100% of the tire manufacturer's inflation tables are for COLD PSI. Cold is defined at "before driving" at whatever ambient temperature is.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: AC7880 on April 22, 2017, 09:03:52 am
............... "With those weights I should run the front at 105psi and the rear at 90psi according to the FT chart"...
***Yes, correct - that is the COLD tire pressure to use according to the tire industry, every major coach builder, car manufacturer, trucking industry, etc. ***
....................."I had been running 100psi cold on the front and 95psi cold on the rear. So the answer is to have a cold pressure that gives me 105psi Front and 90psi Rear, for my weights, on the road...........My cold pressure is about 82psi. on the front and 80psi on the rear"......
***Incorrect. That is the wrong answer according to tire industry experts across the board, and all vehicles manufacturers***
Speedbird 1
Just like with cars and over the road trucking, tire pressures are ALWAYS set cold -- to the recommended charts and/or manufacturer guideline.
Yes, the pressure does increase substantially running down the road. That was already taken into consideration by the tire manufacturer, the wheel manufacturer, the coach builder, and every other type motorized vehicle running down the road manufacturer.
You are substantially and dangerously under inflated.
Looking at your weight versus pressure, with your load range H tires, you need 105 front and 85 rear COLD pressures (minimum, another 5 psi for margin is what many of us do). See bottom link for newest chart of weight/pressure.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: speedbird1 on April 22, 2017, 09:27:06 am
Thank you 7880,
That chart is much different from the one that I was given by FT and my pressures will be adjusted to reflect the difference. Again the value of this forum. Thank you all. Speedbird 1.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on April 22, 2017, 11:02:54 am
RV and tire companies list pressures that will give a comfortable yet safe ride. The last thing they want is a competitor that offers a softer ride.
Pierce
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Michael & Jackie on April 23, 2017, 09:16:58 am
Speedbird....sorry mised you in Nac, glad went well.
Nothing to add to this thread but to reassure you....my weights are very similar to yours so we same. For tires I start cold at 108/90 psi. Not unusual I use 110/90.
Perhaps you have seen variation in the inside and outside duals at times. I recall a thread says it can happen due to heating differences during the day. Not much different but enough my gauge could show it.
By the way, Brian, i was having some trouble getting to the 110 at times. The air chuck was the problem...got a straight in chuck rather than angled and airing up front became easier.
Cheers, safe travel to the last best place
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: saddlesore on April 23, 2017, 09:42:24 am
Tire pressures are supposed to be set cold. They will always read high when hot. Fronts on my crane cold are 110 I get over 130 0n a very hot day. Page 24 says do not exceed cold pressures marked on the wheel
Tire pressures are supposed to be set cold. They will always read high when hot. Fronts on my crane cold are 110 I get over 130 0n a very hot day. Page 24 says do not exceed cold pressures marked on the wheel
The Alcoa wheels are forged aluminum and very tough. The maximum pressure is stamped on the wheel and has a huge margin of safety. Forged wheels don't chunk off like cast wheels and just bend. Our U300 Alcoas are stamped 120 psi cold. This is higher than any maximum recommended cold tire pressure for our sized tires I have seen. Bottom line is to check and adjust pressures cold and don't worry about the pressure later in the day no matter how hot the road or weather is.
Heat is the enemy of tires and the more the tire flexes, the hotter it gets. Dropping pressures on a hot day will cause the tire to heat up more and make it more susceptible to damage or failure.
Pierce
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Michael & Jackie on April 23, 2017, 02:36:59 pm
Trent, I got it from Kelly Truck Stop, a supply parts outfit out of Nac. But they seem available too at NAPA for I have now gotten a straight in gauge as well and find both work better for me. The chuck was the best find for the higher pressure versus the auto tire chuck. Had wondered why Herman Power could more easily get their chuck to fill the tire, they showed me the straight in version they use but did not sell them.
mike
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: krush on April 23, 2017, 09:02:43 pm
Good video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LGdcClcrio
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: rworley on April 24, 2017, 02:39:17 am
We just had a set of six Toyo M154s installed Friday; selection of Toyos was primarily based on economics (and info on this forum). Drove around the block a couple of times; so far, so good. Headed for Puerto Penasco (Rocky Point) late May.
roger
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: John44 on April 24, 2017, 09:25:42 am
We went with the M177 type,have had them a year.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: cubesphere on April 24, 2017, 11:32:19 am
I almost had a set of Toyo M177 installed, however, elected to go with the M170 because on the M177 there is a cut close to the edge of the tire thats according to the tire tech, rip off. Now, he said it won't effect the life of the tire, he said the M170 had not had any issues. I am sure good driving habits will go a long way in saving the M177, I just opted for a non issue tire. After 2 weeks and only 1,000 miles I really like them so far and feel very stable.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: RvTrvlr on April 24, 2017, 03:22:38 pm
Tread depth: M177 is 18/32". M170 is 19/32". M154 is 22/32"
They are all rated for steer, however the M154 is the only "recommended all position steer/drive" and has the deepest tread. Although I am 100% sure they will all perform well in any position on an RV, I will go with the M154 so I can have the deepest tread possible when I sell my used casings to a dump truck or regional delivery owner/operator. They will buy good tires without caring about age because they will wear them out in less than a year. My current bridgestones are probably too old to be sold, but I will still try. Sucks discarding a tire with 95% of its original virgin tread.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: wolfe10 on April 24, 2017, 03:41:31 pm
Counterpoint: If the tires are to be used only on an RV, you actually are better off with the LEAST deep tread in an all wheel position tire. Less tread= less squirm, slightly better MPG, slightly better handling.
As stated, you will never wear out the tread on any RV tire.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Jimmyjnr on April 24, 2017, 11:46:36 pm
Brett Tire tech echoed your advice also advised that the 177 had an extra groove near the edge to disapate heat !!
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Old Knucklehead on April 24, 2017, 11:50:16 pm
We put this group of four new Continentals on this month before we took our last 2,500 mile trip, arriving home yesterday. I took these shots from the right rear tire. What is happening? Other outside tire is as new. We have no recall of a road hazard or scrubbing event. Sheesh. Thanks. Paul
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Caflashbob on April 25, 2017, 12:00:29 am
Defective tire
Unless the inside dual is smaller? Putting the load on the outside.
Inner underinflated?
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: stump on April 25, 2017, 07:24:30 am
Check your air pressure But it looks like the sidewall was scrubbing something. look up in the fender and see if you see any rubber where is might have scrubbed or fresh scratches etc. Check your level system to make sure that side is going to ride height correctly with other 3 sides. Only other thing I can think of is you picked up a piece of a shredded tire laying in the road and it somehow kicked up and got hung up in there and scrubbed the sidewall with the exposed steel belts and cords. the steel is like razor blades and can work over a tire.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: krush on April 25, 2017, 10:44:48 am
3rd picture definitely shows scrubbing against something. 2nd picture shows that scrubbing only went halfway up the sidewall. You hit something, likely a curb or similar object. Looks like it's just scuffing/minor cut on the surface though.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on April 25, 2017, 11:03:02 am
You can see circular scratch marks mixed in with the gashes. Some kind of road gator would be my best guess as Stump says. Take a close look at the rubber scratches leading away in a circular pattern from the cracks in all three photos. This would indicate that while the main part of the debris dug into the sidewall, it twisted at the same time leaving the small marks. Only took one hundredth of a second. Probably caught for an instant between the Fiberglas and the tire. Number one on my list would be the steel/rubber remnants from someone's blowout. Get the tire dealer to look at it right away. Do you have road hazard on the tires?
This is why you can never be too confident that your "brand new" tires are going to somehow make your trip safe. Chances are you won't even see what some car or truck dropped until you have a blowout. If you're really speeding or had that margarita before stopping for the night, you are not going to have as much time to react.
Pierce
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Olde English on April 25, 2017, 11:10:31 am
Looking @ photo # 1 it appears that maybe the problem is the manufacture. From what I can see, the tire cap/camelback was a little small or when the tire went in the mold for shaping and curing it was slightly under inflated.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Tireman9 on April 25, 2017, 11:30:44 am
From a tire engineer's standpoint, I agree with those that correctly identified sidewall abrasion or more specifically "curbing". The evidence and clues are: Discoloration of upper portion of the sidewall. Darker color is the norm for rubber abrasion Small "flaps" of rubber where cutting occurred Radial scrape marks
Further examination of the tire sidewall could reveal if this is a single occurrence or something that has happened a number of times over past 2500 miles.
RR outer is also a clue as it is much easier to cut a curb on right side than on the driver side. The fact that the driver doesn't remember the event is not surprising as I don't think the RV climbed the curb and dropped off but the side of the tire was run against a rough edge of a curb.
Not a "defective" tire as there are no junctions of tire components that would result in the above conditions.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: wolfe10 on April 25, 2017, 11:42:21 am
I reached out to a retired tire forensic engineer who is on the FMCA Technical Advisory Committee with me.
His post is immediately above.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: John44 on April 25, 2017, 11:45:36 am
Getting back to the Toyos,their website calls the M170 a "urban" tire,whatever that exactly means.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Jimmyjnr on April 25, 2017, 11:51:07 am
Urban tire was explained to me as designed for high scrub ( lots of turns) not for prolonged high speed high temp interstate driving
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Tireman9 on April 25, 2017, 03:24:20 pm
I found the chart on pg 2 of the Bridgestone data book (https://commercial.bridgestone.com/content/dam/bcs-sites/bridgestone-ex/products/Databooks/Bstn_DataBook_10-20-2016.pdf)] has a nice comparison or the various terms "Long Haul...Local delivery etc.
Note the download is a PDF with two pages of the data book per PDF page
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: propman on April 27, 2017, 05:34:22 pm
I had Toyo 154s on my previous FT and liked them. I am getting ready to order set of 6 new tires for our current FT
M154 vs M170 ....... M154 maybe slightly better for steer position but perhaps not that much difference. Has anyone drove few thousand miles with Toyo M170 in steer position ? I am thinking to get M170s this time.
Thank you, AL
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: John and Stacey on April 27, 2017, 05:45:23 pm
I have Toyo M177 and like them very much. They seem to be a very good hi-way tire in all positions.
John
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Dave Katsuki on April 30, 2017, 10:58:06 pm
Just put on 6 Toyo M154s, but no experience with them yet (they were fine driving 20 miles back from the tire dealer :) ). Will report back when we move north.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Old Knucklehead on May 01, 2017, 05:33:33 pm
I posted a few pics of a nearly-new Continental tire in this thread a while back. Today, our Michelin factory rep looked at the rear right and confirmed the other experts: "curbing by owner". Light swirls showing rotation, color difference. No damage beyond cosmetic nor a need to replace.
Thanks for the help in diagnosing the deal.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Caflashbob on May 03, 2017, 07:18:43 pm
Thought about this thread today driving home from coronado, ca to San Juan Capistrano.
We were camping there and we were helping a fifty year buddy with their new to them fiesta lx'er.
As part of the conversation about coaches we decided to check his tire pressures.
After adjusting his we decided to check mine. Been months. Shame on me.
Ok fronts had gone from 100 to 92.
Rears from 90 to 84.
Hmmm. Been noticing some steering wander and a slight dead spot. I mean slight.
The Michelin chart for xza-3+'s at our exact weight was 97/87.
Ok versus 100/90 or the bad 92/84 I went with the chart.
Wow. Perfect ride. Steering, turning. No sharp edge feedback.
Five pounds under was very noticeable as was three over.
Fully loaded 97 u320 with LRH's
What a pleasure to drive.
The fsd shocks, centrimatics, everything correct underneath, correct air pressure resulted in one of the best drives I have ever experienced.
Driven hundreds of coaches over time.
I seriously hope that the other brands mentioned have a similar experience.
Bottom of wheel stuff. Absolutely straight in the lane, tiny pressure to correct my line.....no dead spot
Just wanted to report what I experienced. If I was selling this coach today which I am not this would be a money making setup.
Yours may drive exactly the same but I doubt it's better
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: cubesphere on May 04, 2017, 11:52:08 am
Update on my M170 Toyo.
So far, I really think this is a very stable tire. With that said I only have two thousand miles on them so can't speak to wear and such. I do notice that both steer tires are losing about ten pounds per side in the time span of three weeks. Has anyone else run into this problem of losing air in their Toyo Tires?
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: John Haygarth on May 04, 2017, 12:04:25 pm
I highly doubt it to be a toyo problem and more likely you should go back to supplier and have them reset and or new seals on valves/rim joint. JohnH
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: bbeane on May 04, 2017, 02:14:35 pm
X2, you may have leaking valve stems/seals, or beads sealing issues as John said. May be once a year I may add a small amount of air due to loss. I do however change air pressure if I go to a cold or hot climates for extended periods.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Mike Leary (RIP) on May 04, 2017, 03:25:24 pm
X2, you may have leaking valve stems/seals, or beads sealing issues as John said. May be once a year I may add a small amount of air due to loss. I do however change air pressure if I go to a cold or hot climates for extended periods.
X2+1. When these Michelins were replaced, all the stems were replaced with aluminum, plus dual seal caps and wheel studs. The tires were "Forced Balanced". Spendy, but, problems zero. ^.^d
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Parati on May 05, 2017, 04:12:02 am
I've been pleased with the performance of my Toyo tires I put on when I bought my coach. I pulled off 10 year old Michelins that scared the devil out of me just to test drive even though they looked perfect. I put M154's in front and something different in the back M670's which are very quiet for a traction tire just in case I go off roading or get caught in the mountains in unexpected snow which I have not yet done, thankfully in the Foretravel. Now, I've have 24K on the tires and keep the pressures at 110 front and 95 rear. Mileage is great at 10 to 12 mpg not towing so it keeps me happy and they feel more stable than the Michelins that were on it to start with. Have never had a problem with them leaking any air even over a six month period of non use where they have been maybe 2 or 3 degrees low but that could be the ambient temp being lower than when I put it in storage. They track very well on the highway and never had a complaint about wander. I had been caught years ago in the mountains pulling a large travel trailer, I bought in LA at Christmas, with snow so bad I had to roll down the window to see the median guard rail to know I was still on the highway I-5 going over the Siskiyous. Not one vehicle was seen in 20 miles of driving the fast lane at about 5 mph. Don't want a repeat of that one!
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: John44 on May 05, 2017, 07:16:03 am
Are they G or H?
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Parati on May 05, 2017, 04:26:45 pm
The ratings on those tires are G rated.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Protech Racing on May 07, 2017, 10:49:29 am
Is there a special inflater / gauge with a non angle contact point for the outer rear tires? All of the inflaters that I have seen have a angled near side stem and wont fit in the little hole of the Alloy wheel. I really need a straight inflater that faces the outside wheel stem square.. Maybe it is just my wheels. Maybe I need to make an inflator with parallel stems. Did this make sense ? TIA, MM
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on May 07, 2017, 11:08:33 am
This looks like what you are looking for. 180 degree fittings: CH-370-LO Dual Foot Air Chuck Straight-On 180 Degree (http://yourtireshopsupply.com/product/906/ch370lo-dual-foot-chuck-straighton-degree-hach370lo)
Pierce
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Tim Fiedler on May 07, 2017, 11:19:18 am
Attach picture is best practice in these type questions, pretty easy to do once you get the hang of it
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Protech Racing on May 07, 2017, 11:28:20 am
Exactly what I need. Thankyou . Ordered and enroute for about 20$ total.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: craneman on May 08, 2017, 10:56:15 pm
Got stickers today
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: John and Stacey on May 09, 2017, 10:07:07 am
Have 1000 miles on my Toyo 295/75-22.5 M177's now and am completely satisfied smooth as glass. John
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Jimmyjnr on May 14, 2017, 02:00:33 pm
Decided to check pressure on new toyos before I hit the road, first tire checked the valve stuck open, grabbed a tool and spare core and quickly replaced it . Rang les schwab and the sent mobile truck out to change all the valve cores , apparently I was fifth call this week ! Told it was Problem with supplier . Happy with the way they drive and the service from schwab
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Travelin' Man (RIP) on May 14, 2017, 02:10:40 pm
Decided to check pressure on new toyos before I hit the road, first tire checked the valve stuck open, grabbed a tool and spare core and quickly replaced it .
Schwab may have gotten a bad bunch of Schrader valves where they needed replacement, but the few times one has stuck open on me I just rapped it with the pressure gauge to get its attention.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on May 14, 2017, 02:21:34 pm
Schwab may have gotten a bad bunch of Schrader valves where they needed replacement, but the few times one has stuck open on me I just rapped it with the pressure gauge to get its attention.
It may not be the Schrader valves that are bad. The offshore tire gauges cause the Schraders to stick partially open and may bend some. I had the same problem with a new pressure gauge. The Schraders had been working fine for years. When I went back to my old gauge the problem was gone. I had to tighten the cap down until I could get to a town with a auto parts store. Good to carry the slotted type of valve cap so you can R&R the valve.
Pierce
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Travelin' Man (RIP) on May 14, 2017, 03:21:21 pm
Good info Pierce.
That slotted cap you mentioned is my favorite tool for the job. I stuck the cap in a short piece of rubber tubing to be able to turn it easier. But, I don't want to have to R&R a core on the outside dually.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Jimmyjnr on May 15, 2017, 01:39:02 pm
The mobile tech showed me the bad core , it had a small cone shaped plastic ring on the tire side of valve which replacement didn't. He pointed out the ridge on the cone where it had wedged on the inside of the valve body . Sorry if thats not really clear , unfortunately I don't have photo of defective valve
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: SteveB on May 15, 2017, 04:01:45 pm
This may be of interest to some of you that are curious about the tire construction terminology that various manufacturers use: Truck Tire Terminology 101 | TruckersReport.com Trucking Forum | #1 CDL... (https://www.thetruckersreport.com/truckingindustryforum/threads/truck-tire-terminology-101.30542/)
Steve
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Hans&Marjet on May 15, 2017, 04:26:09 pm
It may not be the Schrader valves that are bad. The offshore tire gauges cause the Schraders to stick partially open and may bend some. I had the same problem with a new pressure gauge. The Schraders had been working fine for years. When I went back to my old gauge the problem was gone. I had to tighten the cap down until I could get to a town with a auto parts store. Good to carry the slotted type of valve cap so you can R&R the valve.
Pierce
Exactly what happened to us....schraders were bent on both inners
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Protech Racing on May 17, 2017, 10:35:04 am
I have watched this thread and read most of it. To state that the tires need a certain cold pressure regardless of ambient temp/road temp, is interesting at best. Tires have an optimal pressure to run at . It is called "Target Pressure" for race cars and elsewhere. To hit the "Target Pressure" requires a cold pressure less than the TP. Many of you have seen NASCAR pit stops. The car leaves with 4 new tires and sparks fly from hitting the ground for about 3 laps , until the tires get in the target pressure range . Those tires leave the pits at around 17PSI and TP is near 24-28PSI. In our situation, setting the Bus tires at the target pressure of 100PSI, will yield an actual running pressure much higher, maybe 15-30# over , / Again, it depends on a lot of variables. If the ambient temp is 40* , and the cold pressure is 100#, later in the day , at speed, the pressure will be way over any reasonable target pressure. For those of you with TPMS systems, what happens on cold mornings? All of the lights are on of course because the pressure are low due to lack of heat. The tire will build pressure depending on heat build of course. Short story is that setting cold pressures, regardless of the actual situation, will result in a non optimal target pressure.
Monitor your actual pressures mid afternoon , record what drives best and feels best. Stay above the cold pressure recommendations, error on the high side, but stay under 130ish running pressures. If you filled the tires in NY, drove to FL, you will need to let out about 10# as a rule. The opposite is also true , you willneed to add air as you move to colder roads and ambient air temps.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on May 17, 2017, 11:54:48 am
Having spent several seasons driving in West Coast NASCAR and PRA, I was pretty much up on tire pressures. Depending on the track, we would frequently run four different pressures for the tires. I remember for the CCW track at Saugus, it was 17 psi left front, 35 psi right front with the rears around the mid 30's with the outside tire a couple of psi higher than the inside tire. For road race tracks like Riverside or Willow Springs (ran CCW), the pressures were much different depending on if it was a converted circle track car or one made for road racing. All four corners had weight jacks so pressures were dependent on how much weight was on the tire. They sway bars were also adjustable and frequently preloaded depending on how the car was handling so that effected the pressures we ran.
Different Foretravels will have different tire sizes, different weights and depending on the tire load category, will have different maximum pressures. The aluminum Alcoa wheels are usually rated at 120 psi cold.
The emergency vehicles I drove and city vehicles never chased the pressures. We checked once a week and carried maximum rated pressure as stamped on the tire. This was recommended by the tire manufacture (Cooper at the time) for our emergency vehicles. In one 5 minute emergency response in wet or dry conditions, I would make more just short of lockup stops than most people do in a lifetime. When public safety was at risk, we took the manufacture's recommendation very seriously.
I never weighed my bus or our U300 but have used the same cold pressures while checking and adjusting every few days while traveling and never had a problem or even put a visible amount of wear on them.
Pierce
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Jimmyjnr on May 17, 2017, 08:24:07 pm
Ok My existing pressure gauge jammed one of the new valve insert. Any recommendations for a quality gauge ?
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: John and Stacey on May 18, 2017, 07:45:36 am
Milton makes some quality guages and inflaters.
John
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: amos.harrison on May 19, 2017, 06:39:14 am
Trying to maintain a certain running pressure for tires seems unreasonable. While checking pressures at rest stops, the sun side can often run 20 psi higher than the shade side. Of course, I don't usually race my coach on a circle track-it'll run for many hours in one compass directions. Setting cold pressure is good enough for me.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: wolfe10 on May 19, 2017, 08:57:45 am
Trying to maintain a certain running pressure for tires seems unreasonable.
I agree. And, much more importantly, so to ALL tire manufacturers. All the inflation tables are for COLD PSI. That is "before driving at whatever the ambient temperature is".
Yes, their engineers are familiar with the ideal gas law (affect of temperature change on change in pressure). Yes, that was taken into consideration if calculating the inflation tables.
Yes, this IS different than race car tires. Not sure that is relevant, but ...........
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: bbeane on May 19, 2017, 11:48:33 am
X2 on what Brett said. The engineers that design these tires kind of know what they are saying, but hey that's just me. Race tires have to last a few laps, our tires have to last years.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: krush on May 19, 2017, 02:52:15 pm
Millions of truck tires go millions of miles each year without a problem. They don't overthink inflation....just like those videos said, they top them off.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Dave Katsuki on May 21, 2017, 12:27:32 am
Just put on 6 Toyo M154s, but no experience with them yet (they were fine driving 20 miles back from the tire dealer :) ). Will report back when we move north.
Well I got experience with the 295/75R22.5 M154 Toyo's from Tucson up to Prescott, and unfortunately the front tires were rubbing the airbag platforms (and the airbag when it was compressed going around a corner.) The outer edge of the tires rubbed the rear airbag platform when turning at about 1/2 cut - e.g. on a right turn, the outer edge of the right tire rubbed the rear platform pretty badly at about 1/2 cut, and even if I could have adjusted the relief valves to restrict the steering angle enough, I wouldn't have been able to get around normal corners.
So I went back to Michelin 275/80R22.5 for the front (got X Line Energy Z's LRH), and worked a deal with the dealer to buy the two almost new Toyo's. The Toyo's on the back are fine, of course, and will provide lots more traction if we need it.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: craneman on May 21, 2017, 01:41:23 am
The 270 must have different clearances as our '99 320 has no issue with 295/75/22.5 on the front.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Dave Katsuki on May 21, 2017, 04:00:30 am
Yeah, I was surprised too, since folks said no problems with the wider tires. Comparing the Michelins with the Toyo's on the front, I found that the Michelins feel tighter, especially responding to varying side wind, so I'm pleased with everything except for the extra $$. :(
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: craneman on May 21, 2017, 08:29:07 am
Very strange how critical less than an inch width is.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: wolfe10 on May 21, 2017, 08:31:50 am
Remember, cut angles ARE (easily) adjustable on the Sheppard box. Of course if it hits at 1/2 of full cut angle..........
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on May 21, 2017, 10:32:35 am
Our Cooper 295/75-22.5s rub on the front air bag bottom plates during certain turns but don't do anything other than polishing the plate. Rear is not close. The 295/75s are about .75" wider than the 275/80s but the diameter is almost exactly the same. As Brett says, cut angles are adjustable. I can't see any marks on the tires from occasionally touching the plates in about 8 years.
The tire size calculator numbers will be slightly different from brand to brand.
Tire response will vary depending on brand and even different tread patterns in that brand.
Pierce
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: John and Stacey on May 21, 2017, 10:47:15 am
Dave, Sorry to hear about tire rub. Seems we all want to get as much tire under our coaches. We too have Toyo's, except we have the Model M177 295/75-22.5. They do not rub and we have over 1000 miles on them. They do get very very close in the front. We will continue to inspect for any rubbing. John
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: John44 on May 21, 2017, 11:29:36 am
Ditto to above,have about 6K on mine,no rubbing.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Doug W. on May 21, 2017, 11:32:38 am
....no rubbing with my Toyo's on my 270, possibly tread design difference. Had slight rub on my 280 with 295/75 Goodyear's.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: wolfe10 on May 21, 2017, 11:38:06 am
Is the area that is rubbing structural, or could it be filed down just a little to allow sufficient clearance?
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on May 21, 2017, 12:44:37 pm
Is the area that is rubbing structural, or could it be filed down just a little to allow sufficient clearance?
It's covered when the bags are deflated but exposed when at operational height. It has a radius to it so with the coach going forward, the tire does not touch any sharp edges. With normal highway or city turns, it does not touch. Only when turning off of a road to another with a significant elevation change and even then, only some of the time. The "polish" is very light and at no time does the tire touch the airbag. It does not make any noise either. Don't think it would be advisable to attempt to grind any of the aluminum away as part of the steel mounting place would have to be modified also. As can be seen in the photo (forward most airbag, passenger's side), the normal clearance is about 2 inches. I just don't pay any attention to it as I don't think it is a problem.
Pierce
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: craneman on May 21, 2017, 02:58:11 pm
Are those weather cracks on the tire or just shadows?
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: wolfe10 on May 21, 2017, 06:20:14 pm
Ya, the date code on that "bad boy" would be interesting.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on May 22, 2017, 10:37:31 am
Those are NOT cracks, merely a "patina."
Pierce
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Michael & Jackie on May 27, 2017, 01:16:28 pm
Pierce, what I was wondering about, it seems a crack running the circumference direction of the tire, just inside from the tread. I sure not saying it not a blemish, just what I saw in the photo and asking myself, if I had that would I know it safe?
I appreciate the photo. I really like Michelin and I liked the idea of a 295 tire but think unless I could get a 295/70 it would rub? Just do not like the idea of that but seems logical it only happens when turn sharp. Wish I could get Herman Power to try one, take it off if rubs much. My 275/80 Michelins are 1.75" from tire to base plate at ride height
Always appreciate your contributions to these technical discussions
mike
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: hotonthetrail on May 27, 2017, 02:34:56 pm
Any new updates on the single rear tires.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on May 27, 2017, 04:24:58 pm
Pierce, what I was wondering about, it seems a crack running the circumference direction of the tire, just inside from the tread. I sure not saying it not a blemish, just what I saw in the photo and asking myself, if I had that would I know it safe?
I appreciate the photo. I really like Michelin and I liked the idea of a 295 tire but think unless I could get a 295/70 it would rub? Just do not like the idea of that but seems logical it only happens when turn sharp. Wish I could get Herman Power to try one, take it off if rubs much. My 275/80 Michelins are 1.75" from tire to base plate at ride height mike
Mike, The 275/80 Michelin and our 295/75 tires are the same diameter (within one revolution per mile at the most) and have about the same 1.75 inch clearance to the base plate. The 295/75s have almost 3/8" more width on each side at the tread. They probably would not rub at all but we spend a lot of time on unimproved roads crossing streams, making fairly steep turns off the main road into forest service campgrounds, etc. The coach is leaning over fairly far at this time. This is the only time it touches at all. In normal driving, it clears fine. The Michelin 275/80 might also touch in the same conditions. The touching is minimal and can't be seen on the tire, just a little polishing on the plate.
We do have some weathering on a couple of tires. It is very slight and using Bridgestone's examples of sidewall checking, cracking, damage, etc, it's almost in new condition. We will replace the front tires in a couple more years but not worried about it now.
Pierce
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Michael & Jackie on May 27, 2017, 06:33:04 pm
John and Stacey, that beautiful coach deserves the very best shoes. Hope that is what you have on him!
Pierce, by the charts I could reduce the psi about 10 if I went from a 275/80 to a 295/80.
By the charts I am to carry 110 psi in the Michelins 275. A Michelin 295/80 would be about 98 psi. I thought I might improve the ride with a bit lower pressure......
in fact, some techs with direct FOT experience say they would have sold/shipped it with 97 psi (odd, for not what Michelin chart says to use.....I cannot explain that versus the weight chart)
I do no see a Michelin chart for a 295/75 or 70 tire.
There are several options for the 275/80. Both are maximum sidewall at 7160 lbs at 120 psi, but there is a little difference of less weight capacity at a given psi in X-Line, Energy Z, XPE2+, XZE tires versus the X Multi Energy tire.
The Michelin web site says I need or they recommend the XZE 2 tire, it has 6% wider tread than before (tire)
I did find this chart at tacomaworld.com. As I recall though, this varies by brand to brand, i.e. not all 275/80/22.5 are exactly the same?
Pierce, by the charts I could reduce the psi about 10 if I went from a 275/80 to a 295/80. By the charts I am to carry 110 psi in the Michelins 275. A Michelin 295/80 would be about 98 psi. I thought I might improve the ride with a bit lower pressure...... in fact, some techs with direct FOT experience say they would have sold/shipped it with 97 psi (odd, for not what Michelin chart says to use.....I cannot explain that versus the weight chart) I do no see a Michelin chart for a 295/75 or 70 tire. There are several options for the 275/80. Both are maximum sidewall at 7160 lbs at 120 psi, but there is a little difference of less weight capacity at a given psi in X-Line, Energy Z, XPE2+, XZE tires versus the X Multi Energy tire. The Michelin web site says I need or they recommend the XZE 2 tire, it has 6% wider tread than before (tire) I did find this chart at tacomaworld.com. As I recall though, this varies by brand to brand, i.e. not all 275/80/22.5 are exactly the same? 295/75-22.5 275/80-22.5 Difference Diameter inches (mm) 39.92 (1014) 39.82 (1011.5) -0.1 (-2.5) -0.2% Width inches (mm) 11.61 (295) 10.83 (275) -0.79 (-20) -6.8% Circum. inches (mm) 125.42 (3185.57) 125.11 (3177.72) -0.31 (-7.85) -0.2% Sidewall Height inches 8.71 (221.25 mm) 8.66 (220) -0.05 (-1.25) -0.6% Revolutions per mile (km) 505.2 (313.91) 506.45 (314.69) 1.25 (0.78) 0.2%
Michael, Sorry for the delay in responding. This post covers several topics, all related to each other. Aspect ratio: This is the relationship of the width of the tire to the height (not diameter) here is a quote I modified to suit our sizes: "The two-digit number after the slash mark in a tire size is the aspect ratio. For example, in a size 295/75-22.5 tire, the 75 means that the height is equal to 75% of the tire's width. The bigger the aspect ratio number, the taller the tire's sidewall will be."
So, while a 275/80-22.5 Michelin and a 295/75-22.5 SOB may have a different aspect ratio, the diameter is almost exactly the same. The 6% wider Michelin you mention would just about make up any width difference between the two different sizes and aspect ratios. Translation; if the airbag plate rubbing were related to the width, the wider Michelin would also rub. On our coach, it's possible the regular Michelin might also rub in our "off road" excursions because of leaning, etc.
As Brett had earlier posted, the (for simplicity) limits of steering travel is adjustable in case that might be the cause of the tire rubbing on the airbag plate.
The installed position of the front "I" beam suspension may not be the same on all coaches. If not exactly correct (too far forward), it could cause the tire to touch in certain positions.
As the aspect ratio number drops (along with the tire height), the tire has less distance (height) to flex so lower profile tires tend to have a harsher ride. Cars we see with super low aspect ratios on the street today have suspension changes (progressive shock absorbers) to soften what would be normally a harsh ride. Lower aspect ratio tires do handle better as they flex less and have a larger "footprint" on the road. The handling quality is also dependent on the tire quality and design.
Tire sidewall design will also effect the ride with more flexible sidewalls giving a softer ride. Michelins are noted for a very flexible sidewall. Others like our Coopers, have a more rigid sidewall and may have a firmer ride. Both have their pros and cons.
There will always be disagreement between recommended tire pressures. You will just have to figure out what make you feel good after considering the charts, placards, tire load rating, etc.
An uncomfortable ride can also be caused by a damaged shock absorber. Tires may also be blamed when the problem is incorrect front end alignment. Different brand tires may be effected more or less by incorrect front end alignment.
Pierce
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Jimmyjnr on May 29, 2017, 11:11:29 pm
Pierce As you suggested I Tried 110psi on the new toyos , happy with a firm more connected ride , as you also mention the ride became a little more compliant when carrying full tank of propane , diesel and fresh water . Overall I am happy with the new tires and would recommend them .
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Michael & Jackie on May 30, 2017, 09:41:23 pm
Pierce, I met with Frank at Herman Power. They offer many brands and sizes. For example Uniroyal now makes a truck tire, about half the price of a Michelin. They have Toyo and others.
He recommended the XZLA tire in 275/80/22.5 H. I was thinking about the XZE 2 until I talked to Don Hay. The XZE 2 has about 6% wider tread than the XZA 3+ I have. The XZLA is said 5% more energy efficient than the XZA3+ it replaces and the tread looks much the same. Michelin web site lists differences between the tires, load ratings seem identical.
My XZA3+ rubs on very tight turns. I can feel it but do not see it doing any damage. But a wider XZE 2 or a 295 I guess would rub a bit more. Wish I could just try a 295, still like that idea.
I asked Power if I could turn the outer dual valve stem outward. He agreed.
Don Hay got two XZLAs for the front, has Toyo already on the rear. Don said the dealer used a kevlar valve stem extension on an inner dual stem that was leaking, replacing a steel one. New idea to me.
Thanks all.....
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on May 30, 2017, 10:34:43 pm
Michael,
The wider tire might or might not rub more. You should try and find out what part of the tire rubs. If it's the middle portion, the wider tire won't make any difference. Ours only rubs in unusual attitudes so it might be good to find out what is unique about your coach rubbing on very tight turns.
Pierce
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: NancyS on May 31, 2017, 07:37:04 pm
Has anyone had any experience with Koryo, Double Coin, Road Warrior or Samson Tires? All of a sudden I see a bunch of ads for these tires.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: John and Stacey on May 31, 2017, 07:39:09 pm
Have heard of Samson before. John
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: craneman on May 31, 2017, 07:40:16 pm
I had bad luck with Samson but it could have just been a one time incident. The sidewall gave up after just 2 years.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Old phart phred on May 31, 2017, 09:34:24 pm
I would steer clear of Chinese tires, they have a tendency for substituting inferior materials and "cooking the books" after "testing" has been approved. Kinda like the mystery meat you get at the Chinese buffet. Kinda looks like beef, kinda tastes like beef, but it's got this weird wang you can't quite identify. BTW where did all of the radioactive steel from Chernobyl disappear to, you guessed it, Chinese contractors salvaged it.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: John and Stacey on June 01, 2017, 08:11:47 am
I am not a fan of "China-Bombs", they have been heavily used on 5th wheels. Prone to parts being left on the highway and many conversations in their forums.
John
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: wantabe on June 01, 2017, 09:43:21 am
I've got a few Sampson tires on one of my pick-ups. I have them because of tire failures on the road and it's an unusual size and it's what the random dealers carry. I've had a problem with one that would not balance and one was maybe out of round or had a cord failure. The good ones are okay. Seems I have blowouts in up state NY and Penn. because of bad roads and have to get replacements where I can. As I said the good ones are fine, the defective ones maybe mean that the QC is not too good at the factory.
wantabe
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on June 01, 2017, 10:45:43 am
Lots of tires made in the U.S. but Goodyear is about the last American company left with Cooper under foreign ownership since purchased by an Indian firm in 2015
Here is where the tires tested by Consumer Reports are made: Where Are Your Tires Made? - Consumer Reports (http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/tires/where-are-tires-made)
How to read the DOT codes for country of manufacturer, date, etc: Which Tires are Made in the USA? | Tundra Headquarters Blog (http://www.tundraheadquarters.com/blog/which-tires-made-in-usa/)
Interesting that with all of their Michelins, none were made in France.
Pierce
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Michael & Jackie on June 06, 2017, 03:19:51 pm
decided to replace with these tires, got six today.
Michelin, 275/80/22.5, Z X Line energy (XLEZ H), Made at Michelin in Canada, 15/17 date
Highly recommend Steven at Herman Power for installation service. Explained to me what he found when removed the old, how the valve stem fits in a steel dual inner wheel, asked what pressure I wanted and he said is exactly what he would have used if I not known, 110/90 psi.
good hunting. and thanks Pierce for the other code info.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: P. Wyatt Sabourin on June 06, 2017, 04:06:23 pm
Well I got experience with the 295/75R22.5 M154 Toyo's from Tucson up to Prescott, and unfortunately the front tires were rubbing the airbag platforms (and the airbag when it was compressed going around a corner.)
Dave: Do you know why your Toyo 295/75R22.5 M154 tires were rubbing on the front. Other folks have posted that Toyo 295/75R22.5 M177 tires are OK on the front. Is the rubbing Toyo M154 occurring because the M154 is wider than the M177, or is your front axle different (or configured differently) than the other coaches which can run 295 M177 tires?
A Toyo dealer in Victoria told me that the Toyo M154 tires is better for a motorhome than a Toyo M177 because the M154 is more stable.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on June 06, 2017, 04:12:03 pm
A Toyo dealer in Victoria told me that the Toyo M154 tires is better for a motorhome than a Toyo M177 because the M154 is more stable.
Wyatt,
Wonder what he meant by "stable?" Good catch all word but think we need a better description than that. Might be good to call the U.S. headquarters and ask what the difference might be.
Pierce
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Caflashbob on June 06, 2017, 04:28:45 pm
Michael and jackie: my exact weighed tire pressure on my fronts with LRH Xza-3+ is 97 psi.
The driving experience was noticeably different at changes of 5 pounds max. Many oweners swore they could tell 2 psi.
Smoother ride is why I went LRH instead of the LRG that actually was within specs.
Difference was minus 10 psi for the same loads.
My rears are 87 btw
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: P. Wyatt Sabourin on June 06, 2017, 04:51:57 pm
When I read the tire model descriptions on the Toyo website, there appeared to be little difference between the M154 and M177, however, the M154 has a deeper tread and is better in "highest-scrub environments".
M177 LONG-HAUL STEER TIRE The M177 is a deep 18/32" steer tire designed for long-haul operations. The excellent wear in miles per 32nd with minimized irregular wear, combined with the deep 18/32" tread depth, results in maximum removal mileage.
M154 LONG-HAUL, REGIONAL, AND URBAN DEEP ALL-POSITION TIRE The M154 is a deep all-position tire designed for regional and urban service in the highest-scrub environments. Excellent, even wear in miles per 32nd and a deep tread up to 22/32" deliver maximum removal mileage, even in the drive position.
I believe by "highest-scrub environments" Toyo is referring to a unique buttress protector designed to reduce cutting and curb damage to the sidewall.
My choice based on these descriptions would be the M177 (18/32 tread) for my motorhome, not the M154 (22/32 tread) because I will never wear out the 18/32 tread, while less tread equals less diesel per mile. Also, I do not often rub my tires on curbs so do not need the a high scrub tire.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: wolfe10 on June 06, 2017, 04:55:15 pm
Agree, less tread depth is a plus for an RV. Better handling/less squirm.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Michael & Jackie on June 06, 2017, 06:11:57 pm
Bob, thanks. I do have H range tires, and that handles a bit more weight than the G
However, my weight chart puts me at about 107-110 psi. I would like to run a bit less but admonition on Forum seems consistent to be at top of psi for my weight
Interesting, tech folks that had been at FOT said in the day this coach came from the factory at at 95 psi front. I wonder if different tires?
But you probably are very aware too of what new shipped with.....you think it was 95 psi? And why did that if weight chart said 105+?
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Caflashbob on June 06, 2017, 08:19:46 pm
What is your front axle weight? Not judging. Just learning.
So you are at 13,300 pounds?
G's would be 12,300
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Michael & Jackie on June 06, 2017, 09:19:37 pm
Yes Bob, give or take a 100 lb variation. Have weighed about eight times
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Caflashbob on June 06, 2017, 09:21:35 pm
Your front axle weighs roughly 2,000 pounds more than our non slide 97.
Interested in your drive report
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Dave Katsuki on June 10, 2017, 01:51:48 am
Well I got experience with the 295/75R22.5 M154 Toyo's from Tucson up to Prescott, and unfortunately the front tires were rubbing the airbag platforms (and the airbag when it was compressed going around a corner.)
Dave: Do you know why your Toyo 295/75R22.5 M154 tires were rubbing on the front. Other folks have posted that Toyo 295/75R22.5 M177 tires are OK on the front. Is the rubbing Toyo M154 occurring because the M154 is wider than the M177, or is your front axle different (or configured differently) than the other coaches which can run 295 M177 tires?
A Toyo dealer in Victoria told me that the Toyo M154 tires is better for a motorhome than a Toyo M177 because the M154 is more stable.
No idea why the M154s were rubbing, and the dealer where I got the front tires changed to Michelin had never heard of that problem (but he probably didn't see many Foretravel U270s either...) Only thing I can conclude is that the M154s are wider, since the current 275/80R22.5 Michelins are fine. At first I thought that maybe the axle mounting bolt holes had some adjustment play (they don't seem to have any), but if the axle was moved forward much at all, I estimated that the Toyo tires would have rubbed on the front airbags. It may be that our U270 has slightly different airbag mounting dimensions than the U295s and U320s, but that's just a guess.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: John S on June 10, 2017, 08:18:43 am
Mike I would run 110 on my steer tires in my old coach.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: Caflashbob on June 10, 2017, 10:05:57 am
Long ago my customers and I found a way we thought that was pretty accurate to verify the then current 9r and 10r22.5 tires in the OREDS and the Michelin pilots on the unihomes tire pressure, would be interesting to see if the newer tires design would still show what the old tires did.
You all might laugh and the new tires more modern design might not show this but who knows.
I used to run coaches through a water puddle then immediately on to dry fresh concrete.
As we rolled forward the tire water marks would slowly dry out..
If you were seemingly overinflated the edges of the tire tracks would lighten earlier than the center. Opposite if under.
A slight arc in the path would prevent the rears covering the fronts.
As tire pressures were a constant discussion because of over inflation issues I did this test many, many times sometimes more than once a day.
Everyone was amazed as changing the tire pressure five pounds or less altered the water pattern.
No idea if this will show on these much better tire tech but it seemed to work long ago and gave a real test to back up the percentage of load/percentage of sidewall max load we used then to figure the correct pressures.
The current Michelin charts have a sliding scale in the load versus pressure chart. Not a straight line.
Be interesting to see if anyone can see if this still works.
Or laugh at this. Seemed to work well long ago.
Title: Re: Tires
Post by: John44 on June 10, 2017, 10:20:22 am
We have the Toyo M177's and they do not rub but,I also have all new torque rod bushings on all 5 rods in front,this may make a difference even if it's 1/8 of an inch.Not sure if it would but my bushings were well worn and a 1/8" move toward rubbing or not is alot.