I wanted a simple solution to ensure the water pump does not get left on if we are away. I was hoping for a passive solution that was independent of my remembering to do anything.
So ... I added a timer into the water pump circuit that is triggered when the pump is turned on. The time until the pump goes off can be set to any time you want. We chose five minutes. At the end of the time the water pump is turned off just as if you had pushed the button yourslf. I also included a piezoelectric annunciator that beeps when the pump is turned off by the circuit
Here is a short YouTube video clip. I turn on the pump and start a stop watch. At five minutes the water pump switch light goes out, the pump is off.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=em-upload_owner&v=m4dag5nHKRg
The timer comes from Amazon. Programming the action and the time takes a bit of trial and error but there are OK videos on how to do it.
Amazon.com: Small Miniature time on off cycling delay relay 0.1 sec to 9999... (https://amazon.com/gp/product/B015Z2EQCU/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
The timer puts 12v to the output line when the timer goes off. The water pump circuit need to have a switched path to ground to set or release the water pump relay. So a common Bosch style relay can be used to switch a ground path.
Gotta love these engineers! Ingenious Roger.
First, Roger, let me observe that you obviously have too much free time on your hands. Get a job.
Second: We would need the timer set longer than 5 minutes (for our showers, which generally last until the hot water runs out).
Q: If you manually turn off the water pump switch before the timer times out, does the beeper still beep? I am thinking about mid-night visits to the bathroom - wouldn't need a beeper beeping late at night.
Roger has a job, put me further and further behind on improvements. This is something I have toyed with as well in my head. Really chuck you could set a longer timer. We used to use programmable ones for the spray pumps to spray disinfectant on truck tires as the truck pulls out of a farm or into a farm as it comes down the lane way.
We are dedicated pump and tank users. Leaving the pump on and having an inside pump fail is a nightmare I don't want to experience. Even five minutes could put 15 gallons or more inside the coach. Better than 100 gallons.
Shutting the pump off manually shuts off power to the timer and nothing more happens. We set a timer and took showers. Five minutes seems about right for us. A single switch would override the timer function but then we would have to remember to turn it back on. A second timer on the bathroom pump switch could be set for a longer time than the timer for the other pump switches. They are all on a common ground loop so it is not as easy as it might seem. We will try five minutes for a while. With an AquaHot hot water supply is not an issue.
The beeper is inside a cabinet now. The duration is a fraction of a second and it is not very loud. This is not really needed. I have a couple of these so I though I would try it.
The challenge in this application is completing a ground circuit when the output of the timer is +12v.
Roger, like the water pump timer circuit. Speaking of timers, I have been playing with an air horn "tooter". One press of a separate momentary switch, have horns toot, off, toot, stay off, with short logical timing sequence cycle that could be used to give a positive acknowledgement to another vehicle that did us a favor while sharing the road. Found it hard to do with steering wheel horn button, which often comes off too long or not at all.
Much like a "ICC" switch, I like it! You make it and a lot of us will buy one! ^.^d
Mike, you are right about the ICC switch which we do not seem to use anymore. But the ICC was also used to 'give permission' which is no-no anymore with liability and cameras.
Uh, lost me there what is the ICC switch? Please enlighten me.
Newer rigs on the smart steering wheel switches. "Interstate Commerce Commission" switch. Flash headlights to let trucker/big rig know safe to come back into lane, flash taillights to thank someone that let you know it was safe to come back into lane.
I used my headlight switch on previous rigs with no ICC.
Barry, here is a pdf document which shows the different functions the timer can perform and some wiring diagrams. All of the programming functionality - selecting a function, setting the time mode and setting the time - are all described in you tube videos.
I am thinking about using one of these to make my high brake and turn lights blink rapidly several times and then stay on in brake mode or blink rapidly left or right several times and then flash normally.
I do not know what the Mexican truck drivers use to do it, but most of their rear lights flash when brakes applied. They either do that or the
led's rotate so you cannot help noticing them. They also have some that actually flash--STOP.
Some turn signals use the sequential's like in the old Cougar.
JohnH
You can buy lights that they use on EMT and fire trucks but they are very expensive. A simple timer controller will do the same for less $$.
In any case this thread was about turning off the water pump after a predetermined time. This solution works well. Turns out five minutes is just about the right time to do the dishes as well. Your timing needs may be different.
Roger, your Amazon timer looks like it may do my Tooter with Function #8 Timed flasher on-first. If the air horn sounds like a Toot at about 1 sec, and off for the same time, we can get several toots by setting t2 at 4 times whatever t1 ends up. If we want 3 toots, t2 would be 6 times. Clever single timer. Obviously this thread has temporarily moved away from your water pump timer, so this will end my thoughts here, but thanks for letting us know about your timer.
(http://www.shiny-hiney.com/rapidfire.html)
http://www.shiny-hiney.com/rapidfire.html (http://www.shiny-hiney.com/rapidfire.html)
Blinking Smart Stop - Flashing Brake Light (http://kahtec.com/smart_stop.htm)
Roger, Thank you! BRILLIANT IDEA. Ordering the parts, will be my first mod, as we've left that pump switch on several times already. Rookie mistake.
Best, Jeff
I hope this helps others as well. It seems like a good idea to me. I have another timer circuit on order the switches the output line to ground when the timer goes off. It should remove the need for the Bosch relay and make a much smaller installation. I just have to try it out to see. We can't really hear the beep when the timer goes off on the original design. Probably not needed. So far this is working great.
This is the grounding timer
12V 10 Amp Timer (SINK OUTPUT) [TMR10-SINK] - .95 : 3rd Brake Flasher Web... (http://www.3rdbrakeflasher.com/timer-c-68/12v-10-amp-timer-sink-output-p-210.html)
Barry...
This is a pretty clever timer that can do quite a bit on its own and paired with almost anything for a trigger and a Bosch relay almost anything is possible. Let us know what you do with it.
Here is another one of my favorite "what if" sites. I look and wonder ... what if?
SparkFun Electronics (http://www.sparkfun.com)
If you can think of something that needs to be done there is usually a way to get it done and then another way to do it simpler.
What about potential leakage in the system when plugged in to shore water?
Wireless Remote Water Main Shutoff (http://www.plumbingsupply.com/remote-controlled-water-shutoff-system.html)
T-man,
For many years, FT U320 models used a Parker water fill and auto shutoff valve design that (IIRC) is less than $150 in new parts and less than $85 in rebuild parts (just a fraction of that on eBay).
http://www.patriot-supply.com/products/manufacturer_detail.cfm?manu_id=93&mq=12F24C2148A3F&search=Go
Other than running wires in a U270 or your U295, wouldn't the OEM Parker setup be more convenient, time tested and cost effective than the $400 (+) for this remote with a 25' range?
My water fill and auto stop design has worked great for 16 (+) years, fails safe, can be (fill and stop filling) actuated from five locations inside and outside the coach and has not been a problem. Of course, the ONLY time I leave park pressure on the coach is when I am actually filling the fresh water tank through a filter and a pressure regulated control valve. Otherwise, common sense dictates always isolating the coach from outside influences (SHUT OFF the water fill hose at the pedestal).
??
Neal
Hi Neal,
I noticed my water auto fill cut-off valve was leak water into the tank again - would very slowly fill it all the way up. So I replaced the valve (factory had a rebuilt on for a lot less money) and it does the same darn thing. Apparently the valve does not be shut of 100% even with a 60 psi regulator installed at the pedestal.
Or maybe the "rebuilt" valve is faulty too. I've learned to live with it.
Jim
2002 U320 42'
Jim,
The way my coach is plumbed (which I think is entirely standard), the water fill valve opens a direct fill path into the bottom of the fresh water tank. But there is another potential fill path, backward through the water pump. This isn't supposed to happen if the water pump internal check valve(s) perform their function properly.
It is my presumption, that some (many, if not most?) fill valve problems are erroneously blamed on the fill valve when really the problem is inappropriate back flow through the water pump. My coach has an OEM isolation valve on the inlet to the water pump (to allow changing the pump without draining the fresh water tank). Closing that valve also closes the back flow path through the water pump, if I had that problem. But I haven't needed it for either pump changeout or to prove whether there is back flow through the pump or not. I know that the pump inlet valve does work because I occasionally disassemble the water pump inlet strainer. However, because I always use a water source filter, I've never found it to contain any sediment, or even slime. Out of curiosity, I have taken samples and tried to grow cultures from that filter (internal samples) and I have never found anything of that nature either.
Growing "curiousity" bacteria cultures is a whole 'nother subject, regarding what people don't have a clue to worry about vs. what they obsess inappropriately over.
It would be interesting to know if you could prove my pump back flow theory correct or not.
HTH,
Neal
For the low tech KISS solution simple old fashioned spring wound timer
Intermatic Timer, Spring Wound, 0 to 60 min. FF60M | Zoro.com (http://www.zoro.com/intermatic-timer-spring-wound-0-to-60-min-ff60m/i/G2484973/?gclid=Cj0KEQjwqtjGBRD8yfi9h42H9YUBEiQAmki5Oonus3qrR2SX7jazXtpIE1KiqVPQVEYSrDk5L63lygcaAtF88P8HAQ)
Verify Amperage
I'm just trying to save trips to the pedestal using a remote, that's all.
Neal, I think the auto shut off on the fill side started late 2001 or 2002. It might have been an option earlier. Mine does not have that feature so I have to pay attention. This is another on my list of gadgets to devise. It would be neat to interface it to my SeaLevel sensors.
I met a Prevost owner last summer. His incoming water line went to a solenoid valve controlled by a level sensor. At a user set low point (say 40%) the tank started filling slowly until it reached the user set high point (say 60%) and then it shut off. He could disable or enable the filling function or override it to fill more or drain the tank. All of the internal supply in his coach came from a water pump.
T-Man, like Neal and many others the only time I am connected to external water is to fill the tank and then the water source is off and the hose disconnected and stowed. The $400 system you referenced is only good if you remember to turn it on, likely no easier than remembering to turn the pump off. Many with a clothes washing machine like to have the external water on for that activity. A simple solenoid valve to enable the external water flow or not just like the fill switch could be wired into the washing machine valve controls.
The entire point of this is to minimize the potential for a catastrophic water leak event. Several hours of a city water connected broken line leaking in your coach would be a disaster none of us should ever experience. Even five minutes of a leak with just the pump is going to be 15-20 gallons, still not pretty.
Roger, I'm hooked up to shore water all the time when I'm in a place that provides it, so the $400.00 remote may be just the ticket for me if I can get the price way down. The remote coupled with your timer would give me total peace of mind.
An inexpensive normally closed 12v solenoid to open the water supply line when you want it and shut off ofter a period of time would be much cheaper. The on/off valve should be outside the coach to isolate failures.
TEMCo 1/2" NPT Electric Stainless Steel Solenoid Air Water Valve NC 12V DC 5... (https://amazon.com/TEMCo-Electric-Stainless-Solenoid-WARRANTY/dp/B015HLCRNO/ref=sr_1_11?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1490489264&sr=1-11&keywords=NC+12v+solenoid+valve&refinements=p_n_feature_keywords_browse-bin%3A6671902011%2C7522631011%2Cp_n_feature_seven_browse-bin%3A5485702011)
Neal,
Ah, you probably are quite correct. Never thought of back flow through the pump. Thank you for the tip. And yes, I do use a water timer for fills - just was wondering why the replaced valve didn't do the trick.
Jim
2002 U320 42'
To run the pump for a short, set time would it not be cheaper and
much easier to put one of those timed switches like they put on
heat lamps in bathrooms?
Carter-
Years ago, when connected to city water pressure, we had a homemade short portable manifold with quick-disconnects on both ends. The manifold had a Watts house-style pressure regulator and a Home Depot $10 green plastic sprinkler valve, similar to photo. We kept the manifold inside the bay and turned off the sprinkler valve with a kitchen switch whenever we left the coach.
This is the type of valve where the solenoid only uses a little power to open a small diaphragm hole, which then lets water pressure fully open the diaphragm. De-powering the solenoid uses water force to seal the diaphragm and stop the water flow.
Carter, the pump latching relay gets shorted to ground to latch or release when you push any of the pump buttons. When it is latched it powers the pump. These little timers even with a relay are under $20 and totally passive. They are going to shut the power to the pump off when the time runs out. You don't have to do anything, that is the point.