As mentioned earlier, I'm in the process of replacing my radiator (2000 u320). Removing CAC, which was in excellent condition, was simple. Not so easy is removing the fan bracket bolts from the engine side. The few that I was not able to get at should be accessible once I lower the radiator on to my motorcycle lift and tilt it.
I'm seriously considering replacing the rusted tranny cooler, along with the hydraulic lines while everything is open. Has anyone replaced their cooler? I'm looking for a source and hoping to minimize the cost.
Thanks, Sven
The fins on the radiator are completely rotted and fall apart when you touch them. Don't think there will even be scrap value here.
I had my radiator pulled and checked $1200( for cleaning only). Cooler was in pretty good shape but had a crack in it. So I welded I up and had it all put back together. No easy task.. Radiator is big and heavy
I replaced the transmission cooler too. It was expensive and I think the source was FT.
My radiator is starting to shed fins. I am not looking forward to manhandling that massive contraption out of its mounts.
Sven any idea of why the fins rotted, do you live on the coast? If so there are some aluminum coatings available for coastal areas that are designed for coils. Don't know for sure the cost or if they can be spray applied. Might be worthwhile checking it out.
Any body find a source for this work in Mexico?
I've only had the coach since last summer. The original owner lived in New York state. We are in the San Diego area, so we won't have to worry much about the rust in the future.
The biggest problem so far has been the bracket bolts for the fans - hard to get to from the engine side. If you have a bedroom slide, I think it would be "damn near impossible" due to the limited access. They would have to get a trained monkey to crawl up in there.
A motorcycle lift from Harbor Freight is the perfect tool for lifting and lowering it.
Sven, any more pictures and other than the slobber tube what are you up to now?
JohnH
I've removed all the hydraulic, ATF and coolant lines and am prepping the frame for paint. All the fan brackets are finished and I recently spent a fortune on hoses ( close to $700 on two transmission hoses to the cooler). Today I took a day off to help my daughter replace all her car's brake pads and shoes (she did half the work). Tomorrow I should be able to get around to rebuilding the fan motors. I'd like to do the install next week and start getting ready for the May 4 rally up by Gilroy, CA.
I will post more photos.
Were those OEM hoses for $700, or did you go to a hose shop? For that kinda coin you may have been able to get some Earl's braided stainless steel, depending on the pressure/temp rating.
All of the hoses are made to fit, using Eaton materials. They didn't charge me for labor to remove and replace the elbow fittings at the bottom of the "valve body" on the bottom of the forward fan. When I asked about the blue hoses, I was told that my OEM ones were blue under the black soot and oil.
I'm trying to decide if I should replace the fuel hoses (where does it end?), and will probably do that if I can see how far forward it goes and if I can access it. Has anyone done this?
They go to the fuel tank. I posted on the change out on mine, but someone else came up with a better idea. I removed the covers and pulled new line connected to old line. With all the zip ties it was a pain. Do a search someone else left the old lines and used a rod to pull the new ones straight through without have to pull all the covers and cut the zip ties.
Fuel lines (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=26797.msg217407#msg217407)
There are several grades of braided hydraulic hose and a equal number of fittings. Ours are single jacketed and if allowed to rub against each other, they chafe through. The double jacketed has two layers of steel wire. Very tough but a little less flexible. I had the single jacketed made up and they were about $60 each on our trip last fall. Quite a few more left to go but it was my fault not to see that the two rubbed before we left on our trip. On the road is more difficult as a 1" crow's foot is sure handy and glad I had it along. One of the new hoses had 1 1/16" fittings so now I have another crow's foot.
The generator fuel supply line (side generator U300) is a fast piece of cake in just a few minutes. The others are harder with pulling the tank out and then dropping the tin overhead in the storage compartment, etc. I have fed HDMI and RG6 way back and it just took time and a bit of contortion. All new fuel hoses should be bio-diesel compatible but ask. Probably good to purchase a 100 foot roll as it will be less expensive that way and do your homework for quality comparison.
Pierce
Sven,
A good number of folks with late 90's and into 2001-era coaches have had to replace fuel lines to both generator and big engine in the last few years. Problem was cracking in the hosing allowing air to be sucked in. It seems to be a case of "when" rather than "if".
If the work you're doing is offering greater access to the fuel lines, it might make sense to tackle it now.
If you decide to do it yourself, look for lifting devises rather than manhandling it. Motorcycle lifts (cheap from Harbor Freight) are excellent. If you have to move it over uneven ground, a tractor helps.
Mostly assembled and ready to install. Lots of detail work. Hopefully no issues left.
Funny I was just thinking today of asking how it was going. Do not be bashfull about posting many more pics of things and install too.
JohnH
Looks like a nice neat and clean job. Excellent!
P
Looks good!!
Am I missing something, something looks not quite right about the piping arrangement. If the piping going into the bottom of the pumps is inlets (to prevent air binding) why are the outlets tied together and going nowhere? Is there a bypass I am not seeing, or are these pumps piped in series? School me
They are piped in series.
So the right fan is always "on" and the left pump is counter-revolutionary and has a built-in bypass and a return to the hydraulic resivouir connection somewhere. Thanks for the schoolings. Just learning. Looked a photos six times to try to figure out the fan pitch from the photos still not sure as appears to be an optical illusion in a flat photo.
Nice job. Looks really crisp. Is the black cylinder on the bottom an oil or tranny cooler? Stock or aftermarket?
Mark
Sven and Kristi:
Interesting that your hose to the main motors iron input in the lower side has a single large hose.
My 97 has two smaller hoses, no idea why?
Btw beautiful work. If I follow you home will you keep me?
It's the tranny cooler, identical to the original from the same manufacturer.
Sven
I'm curious about how the "bypass" under the left (forward, in relation to rv's orientation) fan works and how it relates to the speed control box located on the rear "bumper" under the coolant reservoir.
Me too, my best guess is the speed control of the left fan via the bypass valving, is by a radiator temperature controller, as others and caflashbob has described in several earlier posts. Optimum on/off settings may be open for debate as it effects available hp/fuel consumption. No free lunches.
I moved the radiator out of the garage and into position on the motorcycle lifts (@$90 at Harbor Freight) today. Once in position, I replaced the chain with with a red strap - with the trans. cooler and fans attached, it would tip over without it. I tapped the holes for the smaller coolers and will install them tomorrow before raising it into position. I used a rope come-along attached to the Jeep to pull it sideways a few inches.
We are trying to get this done with enough time to get up to the Motorcade club rally up north next Thursday. Pressure.
More than professional looking with some backyard engineering to boot.
Hope you get many happy miles out of it.
nicely done and a nice use of the sub compact tractor too.
Nothing like the satisfaction of doing the job yourself, the pride of ownership ^.^d
A pro would likely have found something other than an old air dryer to hold up the battery tray - no one seemed to notice. Thanks for the compliment.
Whew Sven,
Looking at all that work made me tired.
Keep up the good work,
Carter-
Saturday - attached hydraulic cooler, CAC and fuel cooler while the radiator was still in the lowered position. Had some problems with stainless bolts attaching hydraulic cooler brackets to the holes I tapped. One got stripped, so will go with graded bolts tomorrow. The CAC can be put in position with one person, but lifting to the bolt holes is difficult without a third jack (see photo). So far I've only needed Kristi to be my ground guide (holding rope) while moving the radiator with the tractor. With the right tools, it looks like the whole operation can be done by one person. Tomorrow I should be able to raise it to the main attachment anchors.
nice job Sven. I would have put the CAC on when all the rad things are hooked up as I found it easy to put on followed by fuel cooler.
Just think, if you had a pit how easy the hoses and all the stuff behind rad would be :thumbsup:
JohnH
A pit would be helpful for hooking up the hoses, but lifting the radiator, etc. to the attachment point would be a problem.
Just to be kind, did you double check and re-check your new hydraulic line routing to ensure it was the same as it came off?
On mine RV of similar vintage, the motors are rotated 180 from each other (the case drains...the small hose...are opposite).
In the picture I see two T's on the bottom hose (unless the left T isn't one, but hard to tell in the picture). Unless something is changed greatly from 1998 to 2000, it isn't adding up.
Our setups must be different. I took photos, color taped hoses and made diagrams before disconnecting. The final "proof" is that only one hose would fit a particular fitting. The "T" fitting on the left, for example goes to the hydraulic cooler hose.
The radiator and accessory cooling units are installed and I'm in the process of attaching hoses, replacing transmission filters, and CAC and coolant pipes. I've had a few set backs: Some were of my own doing (cross threading trans, hose fittings, upside down hydraulic cooler brackets, etc) and others were not anticipated. The new radiator was 3/4" longer, making it a tighter fit against the beam to the rear and creating a problem with the forward diagonal rod brace. The original radiator had a welded piece of angle iron for a lower brace (other was bolted in), while the new one came with matching holes for braces. I ended up cutting the welded piece from the OEM radiator and tapping in holes to make it work. I had to bend the forward rod to allow for the wider radiator. Hopefully, I will be able to get that stinking slobber tube elbow in today, using suggestions several of you have made (I'll save the KY as a last resort).
Beautiful work. Way beyond my capabilities but I can admire from afar!
It has been a long time, but a lot has been done that I won't summarize. Today I added the fluids and checked for leaks and replaced a couple of narrow coolant hoses, fortunately at the top of the system. Tomorrow morning I will start it, check levels and hopefully, take it for a "check out flight".
The hydraulic reservoir only took 17 qts (of 24 expected), but I think the level will drop once the pump turns on.
Sven,
What a great accomplishment. To add to what Mark said above (reply 41) that job is way beyond the job skills
of 99% of the people on here. My hat is off to you and I know I am not in that 1%, so congrats to all of you one
percenters on here. This is a really great tutorial for that is now archived in the Forum for the future. You can buy
many gallons of fuel and log lots of miles and smiles on the coach bucks you saved.
Congrats again,
Carter-
Thanks for the compliment Carter. I would hate to think what the labor charges would be.
The rig started right up and after the oil reached the fan motors they started purring. As expected, the oil level in the reservoir dropped and I was able to add another gallon. After idling for about 10 minutes, there is no sign of any leaks so far. Big thing is that the fans didn't fall out and hoses didn't pop off - I'm very capable of missing one clamp, etc.
I will do a write up of the experience and add photos for anyone that wants to do this. Surprisingly, I found that one person who isn't currently experiencing back problems can do the job with the right tools and a tractor. The motorcycle lifts made all the difference when it came to lifting into place and fine tuning the position. Kristi did help me by steadying the radiator while moving with the tractor. The last thing, is that you need the space to maneuver.
I will spend the rest of the day putting the body panels on and doing an engine oil change.
Hats off to you Sven! Still trying to find the time to get over there! Great job.
Sven,
You going to put 6 or 8 of those motorcycle lifts on
Craig's List and just keep 3 or 4 ? ? ?
Again great job to a one percenter,
Carter-
Great job! I love challenges like this. Get'er done!
John, you and Sven are both great at detailing and using pics to enlighten
old people like me that can barely get over to tie their shoes on how
to do a project.
Thanks to both of you,
Carter-
Sven, so the new replacement Rad was 3/4" wider and that was from the OEM manufacturer? Any reasons given for that change?
Hope you did take many more pics etc as I should be doing this fairly soon as it would sure be nice to be able to r+r the hydraulics at the same time and clean up framework etc. Well done.
johnH
John, the radiator has the same dimensions. I measured the bottom of the new radiator (after installation) and the top of the old one, not taking into account the 3/4 inch was due to the carriage. I have not figured out why the forward diagonal rod did not match up. It bows a little coming around the edge, but fits. I will be happy to help out in any way I can when you get started. I will have to write a lot of this down before I forget.
Finally all done. Only thing left is to replace the radiator cap which doesn't have the upper seal.
While replacing all the radiator hoses, I made a disturbing discovery. One of the "hump hoses" (Gates 23562) looked fine, but had a huge split on the inside wall. It would have failed somewhere on the road had I not changed it out. I would recommend everyone carry an extra one, since they are very difficult to find. NAPA had one in Kansas and I ordered one from North Carolina. Something to ponder when stuck somewhere by the road.
Nice clean looking engine Sven, and panels look like they were never removed !!
Hope your first drive goes well.
Just looked at Rockauto and they have it for $12 (green stripe) but 5 day delay. Jegs has it in stock @$ 21
JohnH
Just checked "siliconehose.com" and they have all the hump hoses you could want and they are in calif.
I'm not really familiar with silicone hose and I trust Gates. It was also OEM.
FYI, "humphose" vibraflex comes in other sizes, if needed: http://ww2.gates.com/common/downloads/files/australia/brochure/GS%20Vibraflex%20Hose%20Flyer%20(AUS%20&%20NZ)%20June%202013.pdf
I think the humphose is going to be cheaper than silicon connectors.
Great job Sven, now lets go somewhere😀
The Gates is probably cheaper but I was pointing out that they are not that hard to find,the humphose comes in silicone also.
Plus the so called oem had the slit on the inside.
The "so called OEM" hose was also 17 years old. If you search "hump hose", you will find a bunch of silicon. My point is that it might be a good idea to carry a spare.
I carry 2 of them as they are used in 3 places. Along with both belts and fuel filters.
I just had my first breakdown since moving back into the coach a year ago and putting around 10-12k mis on it, including up and down numerous mountain passes, etc. I am headed to TX for the Winter, in between RV Fog Dr to get new windows installed (they're just doing the install) and MCD to get new shades. I had spent the night in a Walmart lot in Hope, AR and was planning to work the day from there and make the run to MCD after work - but fate had other plans. When I started the engine to move to another more remote spot, the "Check engine" light came on, then the "Stop engine" light. I got out and saw quite a bit of what looked like coolant on the ground, and confirmed this by the looks of the bottom of the radiator and the color of the fluid on my white rag - bright red.
Fortunately there was a shop within a mile and they dispatched a mobile mechanic. He confirmed my belief that it would have to go to the shop, and we topped off the coolant with water (maybe 8 gallons - enough to satisfy the sensor) for the 1 mile drive. As far as I can tell the thermostat never opened on the way over. I was amazed at all the cooling units there were in one spot, all ganged together - and so inaccessible too! AC evaporator, transmission cooler, charged air cooler, engine radiator... I decided at that point to spend some time this Winter fabricating a piano hinge setup so the skirt panel could be raised without having to remove the seam trim and body screws. I can't even imagine what the result would have been if I had painted the rig already. It's going for full body paint in April, so I have a deadline for the louvered panel modification.
As others have mentioned (just confirming here) the '99 U320 the radiator part number is B2358RMPC, manufactured by Atlas Radiator in Corpus Christi. They charged $2,200 + $120 shipping (2 day motor freight to Hope, AR). Foretravel was going to charge about twice as much. I want to thank in the extreme a newbie Forum member, Carl Hansen, for letting me take the radiator that was almost ready for him, which puts him about another week out to receive one, which is being fabricated now. By all indications (Silverleaf?) the CAC is ok. I could replace it at the same time for $1,600 but I'd have to wait a while to get it. My feeling is that when the CAC, transmission cooler and AC condenser require work or replacement (after 19 years I'm thinking *replacement* since I'm full-timing and hoping this will last for 20 more years!) at least the first phase - removing the body panel - will not be necessary, and the paint job won't be sacrificed in the process.
I knew when I bought a 19 year old coach that there would be days like this. I was hoping it would come later, but all things considered I really can't complain! I'm just happy to have a coach - despite a few "what were they thinking" moments - that is well worth the renovations it has had and has yet to receive.
Forgot the most important "secret sauce":
To identify the radiator (besides looking for a tag or stamp once you get it removed - which is a LOT of labor) you can call Foretravel with your BUILD NUMBER and they will gladly tell you the Atlas part number. Then you can call Atlas and order one. Foretravel *might* have one in stock. Atlas almost certainly will not. From what I can tell, I just happened to be VERY lucky.