Returning from Disney World (the most funnest and expensivist place on Earth) and the Cummins is losing power for a about 5 seconds, then runs normally for a minute or 2 and rinse and repeat. It started about 30 minutes or so after filling up this AM. Took a 2 hour power nap, turned the engine off, and afterwards the ole lady drove it for about 2 hours no issues. Then I took my shift and within a few minutes the same issue. BAd fuel? Revenge of the feminazi witches? Maybe I should just let her drive.
Those are classic symptoms of bad fuel and you are stopping up the fuel filters with most likely water. Does your primary filter have a clear bowl that you can look for water? Do you have a spare filter set on board? If so now would be the time to pull over and install them.
Start with the simple stuff first.
Pamela & Mike
In P6 I have 2 fuel filters, one a normal paper type with some electronic felgercarg attaché do to the bottom of it, the other is just a permanent metal screen, replaced it a couple months ago since it was crushed like a beer can.
Now that I think of it I'm wondering if this thing doesn't have a water purge?
And yes I have one of the paper filters.
Sounds like you still have the old style Racor If this is what you have I would think strongly about updating to something that you can get replacement filters for while on the road that is easer found. It could be a basic manual primer pump filter base that holds a R-90-P filter or something elaborate if you like.
Yes it should have a water purge. OEM the filter water purge discharge had a puke bag attached so it would be environmentally friendly when used, by now most are detreated beyond use.
Pamela & Mike
RvT,
Not to be an overeducated burro or muddy the water, with this coach being a U-320 it will have the M-11 Celect. There fly by wire system works differently. If the throttle actuator acts up on his coach he will be setting at that spot of failure.
Pamela & Mike
Where did you get fuel? What type of place?
Winn fuel filter vacuum leaks constantly and all the fuel lines are cracked from the low sulphur fuel if they have not been replaced.
Rubber hoses not good with the new fuel.
If both of those good the cam position sensor fails on all early m11's
You can hear the erratic idle standing at the rear with the engine running.
Oil soaks through the potted material and shorts out both circuits after a while.
New design has a solid metal tip. No oil can get inside.
Inexpensive part. External installation.
It was Kanza Travel Plaza, one of the Indian run business/casino outfits in Oklahoma.
It idles pretty nice. As for the filter I don't know if I have a Winn filter, the main fuel filter is, I believe the racor referred to earlier. It sets in a metal cup and has some wiring extending from that cup. We replaced that filter and I believe the metal cup as well a couple months ago.
My question for y'all is this; there is a panel in the engine compartment with a couple buttons for air purge and water purge. The air purge button gets me a little whirring sound, but the water purge nothing. Of course there is also an 'H2O' idiot light on that panel. It is not lit. Must that lift be on for water purge to function?
If you have the purge thing you have the Winn.
You can sornd hundreds like I did three times trying to fix the poor design or save yourself a lot of money and replace the unit like I finally did.
The ISM engines have both a cam position sensor AND a crank position sensor as a backup.
Your and mine have only the cam position sensor. Not made for low sulphur fuel
Inside is two separate circuits. Over time both become oil soaked through the potting material and cause a total engine failure and a tow.
The sensor is $50? Range and externally screws into the block.
The other upgrade is the atmospheric pressure sensor. Simple plug in. Removed from block now on the frame next to the engine.
Better altitude sensing.
No recall just updated parts.
You need both.
After you fix the Winn the cracked fuel hoses, if not replaced, will show up.
No one told me this five years ago. Spent a lot of money to figure this out.
Adjusting the valves and injectors also made a difference.
The m11 are much smoother with a cetane booster.
The m11 was not made fior more than B5 fuel. No b20
Thanks Bob, I'll take your ideas to the shop.Where my coach lives when it's not visiting me.
I can help you spend lots of coach bucks. Support your local shop stuff.
But we intend to drive the coach bucks out of ours.
Five years. 30k miles.
I'm pretty sure if the cam sensor fails the coach won't start.
That's not exactly the same as a total engine failure.
Yes when the engine position sensor fails it will not open the fuel solenoid. I know from experience trying to get inland before a storm. Ether will help get you started though.
A oem Winn system and no reports of fuel line replacement and ULSD fuel seem fairly clear what issues are here.
I have the same coach. Experienced the same issues like many others and fixed the coach.
I started out with the easy ones.
Other than a badly clogged air filter I also had. The rear air filter gauge was incorrect.
This solved all my fuel issues, great product.
Product Features
Fuel Pro 382
The Fuel Pro 382 is a full function combination of diesel fuel filtration and water separation that will save you time, money and unnecessary down-time.
The Fuel Pro 382 is recommended for heavy duty diesel engines with flow rates up to 180 gallon/hour.
Models and Options
Base Model: Unheated
Electronic Water in Fuel Sensor (WIF)
Coolant Heat
Electric Preheater Options (Heaters can be combined if desired)
12 VDC pre-heater
24 VDC pre-heater
120 VAC overnight heater
"SEEING IS BELIEVING®"
The combination of the clear cover on top, the EleMax filter cartridge and the Statapore filter media ensure better water separation, longer filter life and provide instant visual diagnostics of fuel quality to protect engine system components.
EXTENDED FILTER LIFE
Change the filter only when the fuel reaches the black band on the filter wrap. As the fuel rises inside the filter cover, the vapor pressure relief valve on the cap equalizes pressure and allows more of the filter media to be used.
The color of the fuel and the filter media is not an indication of when to change the filter as there is still unused media under the filter wrap.
FUEL HEATING
With multiple fuel heating options, the Fuel Pro 382 will keep you on the road in the harshest winter conditions. Electric pre-heaters warm the fuel once the ignition key is turned. Overnight heaters can be used to keep the fuel inside the Fuel Pro warm when the temperatures drop. Coolant heat uses the heat of the running engine to maintain fuel temperatures on the road.
FUEL PRO 382 SPECIFICATIONS
Fuel Pro 382 Specifications pdf format
Height Overall 16.13" (409.7 mm)
Depth Overall 7.25" (184.15 mm)
Width, Max max 6.89" (175 mm)
Mount Bracket Centers 5.91" (150.11 mm)
Weight (Dry) 7.25 - 9.75 lbs (3.9 - 4.42 kg)
Fuel Capacity (w filter) 64.2 oz (1.9 L)
Fuel Connections (Inlet) 1/2"-14 NPTF (M22 x 1.5)
Fuel Connection (Outlet) 1/2"-14 NPTF (M22 x 1.5)
Max Operation Fuel Flow Rate 180 gal/h (681 l/h)
Water Trap Capacity 33.8 fl oz (1.0 L)
Filter Service Clearance Min. 3.5" (88.9 mm)
Electrical pre-heaters 12 VDC, 250 W, 18 A ± 3 A
24 VDC, 250 W, 11 A ± 2 A
Overnight heater 120 VAC, 75 W, 0.65 A ± .1 A
As always I very much appreciate all the replies, but Holy Coach Bucks y'all are gonna cost/save me some $. We are headed to old town motor coach in a few days and we will be looking at the fuel lines as well as the cam position sensor and talk about a different filter system in necessary, as well as a couple other projects. Naturally.
Join the crowd. I have spent more than 50% of my purchase price continiously upgrading/replacing all the worn/old systems in our coach.
Half for better results, the other half for pride of ownership. We need 20 more years out of our 20 year old coach.
Jack up the radiator cap and replace the rest. Not for the faint of wallet.
How much is your pleasure worth?
Time to learn how to become self sufficient, and that's a dirty job, but very gratifying and sometimes priceless. Don't be afraid to learn a new skill. And obtain tools to perform common tasks. This site is a huge database of help. Sailors by nature are required to become self sufficient as there's nobody else to rely on, and mid ocean with no internet access. NAC and $ is a crutch, ask or search the forum and you will receive. Walk into a truck stop and see what common filters etc are in stock, and use this as a guideline to help select a filter systems, and carry spares. Successful OTR truckers are prepared just like sailors.
Yea well Im not a gearhead and that is a problem. I would also love to learn to sail but as you point out, sailing is for gearheads. Owning this coach for just a few months has been a gigantic lesson in how much I dont know about it. OTOH we do love this thing, and so Im gonna have to take your advice. Never ever going back to a fiver.
I do not consider myself a gearhead but I try to do it myself first. I don't mess with the engine or tranny, boost power, change gear ratios etc that's for gearheads. If it doesn't require a 1 1/4 inch wrench it's fair game for me. In the beginning stages of replacing both air conditioners at present. Opted for the 15000 btu Atwood's.
Roland
.
Roland,
You made a good choice. I bought two of them from PPL and decided I could not get them up to the roof. Took them to a local RV dealer, who estimated $250 apiece to install them. Two weeks later they were ready, at an installation cost of $1400!
Trent
We are at our lot in Lakewood NM made sure I had someway of getting them on the roof before I ordered them. Have a tractor with a bucket and some young help.
Roland
Ouch - show me the hours! $250 each sounds about $100 bucks too cheap. 2 guys 30 min to lift units off and put back on. Then one tech 1 hour to tighten bolts and terminate connections, and test. What was the disposal fee, 30 minutes to recover refrigerant on these tiny units? Musta paid for everybody's spring break.
Roland I am sitting under my new 15k Atwood right now I love it. You can handle the swap. Easy peasy 4 bolts read the manual its cut and dry.
Did you get the heat pump model and does it have a white or black outside cowling?