We have been traveling about a month, starting with the Unrally. We have spent the last 17 days at the Keesler AFB Fam Camp, in Biloxi MS. It is the longest we have been in one place in our travels. We are also on a (used to be) nice concrete pad. I have occasionally seen a drop or so on the ground near the front. I have always thought it was from the generator, and add oil as needed.
We now have acquired what looks like a serious leak under the front (see pictures). It appears to be coming from outside the quiet box, where the steering stuff is located. The larger circle appears to be a clean-looking oil (or hydraulic fluid), The generator dip stick reads full, but it is a dark black color. The thicker glop in the center is a yellow color on top, but shows white when I wiped it with a paper towel (see closeup picture). It had rained hard here a couple of days ago, and the color made me think of what water does to engine oil.
I have never had a noise or stubbornness from the power steering, but I am concerned about what this stuff is and means. I have not driven it in the last 17 days and am planning to leave Thursday morning, driving to Nacogdoches, which is a little over 400 miles away. As long as the power steering continues to perform properly, is it safe to drive that distance (notwithstanding the driver)?
Anyone know what this stuff is and implies about my FT? Any suggestions about what to do about it between here and NAC? I do have Coach Net (or one of those things), but do not yet know if it is a serious problem, but DW is very worried.
Any advice welcome and greatfully accepted.
Thanks,
Trent
Check your hydraulic oil level first.See if the leak get worse when you start engine,see if you can find exactly where leak is.
Do that then give us a update.
On my 1995, I developed a leak like that. I serviced hydraulic fluid level and drove to a scheduled service at FOT. Steering gear still leaked after replacing seal. I had an overhauled unit installed and noticed better steering immediately. It's not that it was that bad before, but it drove nice and tight like a new coach with overhauled unit. I didn't lose that much fluid on trip. Seemed to leak when turning in my case.
Trent,
Your coach is newer than ours, so all I say may not apply.
Our coach has two oil reservoirs in the engine compartment. One is for the cooling fan motors/pump - the other is for the power steering system. They both use the same motor oil as the engine (both engines, actually), so it can be difficult (sometimes) to pinpoint the source of a leak. In your case, I would check the oil reservoir for your power steering system. If the system is "tight" (no leaks) the oil level should be at or near the full line on the dipstick. If the reservoir is low, this might suggest your leak at the front end is coming from the steering box. In that case, you should refill the reservoir with the appropriate oil, and keep a close eye on it.
Steering box seal leaks can go for a long time just slowly dripping oil, or they can suddenly blow out causing a massive loss of oil and total power steering failure. No telling when (or if) this might happen...but it's hardly ever at a convenient time. A search of the Forum will yield some chilling "power steering" tales of woe.
If you do determine it's the steering box at fault, best to take care of it ASAP.
You need to raise it up, wipe excess oil off and see if it is a hose or the seal. Your system uses one reservoir and it takes the same oil as the engine. With the engine running turning the steering wheel will let you know how severe the leak is. It can be driven safely as long as you keep the tank filled and it turns normally.
Trent, you should be able to see the steering gear box from the door on the side bay where the generator radiator is located. Yours is likely not too different from mine. If the seals are leaking (most likely) then there will be oil in the floor pan in this bay and the steering gear box will be wet with oil. Mile has leaked 1 qt in six years. I put a layer of oil dry in the pan to collect any drips.
If it is your steering box it might just need new seals. The steering gear has limit adjustment that cut hydraulic pressure before the steering parts hit physical stops. In the mean time try not to steer hard to the right or left.
If your leak spot is as big as it looks it needs to get fixed. If a seal blows out you will pump,a lot of hydraulic oil out in a short time.
Trent, your coach is same year as mine as you know and having had a steering box seal go what I would look at is the top of steering box thru the front bay. If it is leaking at the top of it then this can be fixed fairly easily without removing the box. This is usually caused by the steering stops not being set right. I found this out via other members and what to do. That oil looks like it has emulsified either by being almost empty and blown out of box or hose. You may have a large pool of oil in that small bay.
If the seals are gone on the top you can get new ones at almost any larger Diesel shop and I have the part #s. I replaced mine on the side of road with help from a mechanic with air tools which made it easier to remove bolts etc.
Let me know.
JohnH
Remind Jean to remember: Everything's gonna be alright.
Once you spot the culprit and we identify the part at fault, a replacement will be found and shipped back at you quickly, I'll bet.
Let us know how we can make life easier for you tomorrow. Sorry you are having a problem. P
This is exactly where the "oil puddle" appeared when my 96' U320 developed a Pittman arm seal leak on the steering box. Run the engine and see how bad the leak is. If it's a steady stream, you might have problems with making the long drive. If it's a drip, drip, drip leak, it is a simpler task. We drove ours from Gulf Shores Alabama to Houston by stopping every 20 miles until we established how much oil we were leaking by checking the oil level at each stop, then adjusted our interval based on how much oil we had to add each time. As others have said, it is possible that you could have a compleat seal failure, but we did not and made it back to Houston and on to Nac for a steering box replacement. Try not to make any hardcover turns while underway, and check your steering oil level frequently. No matter how you proceed, it's gonna make an awful oily mess under and along the drivers side of the coach! Make sure you get a few gallons of 15W40 motor oil before you depart, and good luck!
If the steering box is leaking. I would say it is about the age where they will start, need to get unit rebuilt. Some replaced the leaking seal and then the others let loose. When I had my problem I found out by having oil all down the side of the coach. I had to clean my coach up and friend that was following me on a trip.
After replacing box, steering was greatly improved.
I am humbled and happy about all the support I have received from my message; Thank y'all very much!
I have opened up the engine door and looked for the hydraulic tank, and think I found it. Is it the tall tower next to the air cleaner? I unscrewed the dip stick at the top and the dipstick is bone dry. There is also what looks like it might be some kind of sight glass on the side, a round amber doodad; does that have a useful function?
On my way to Beam Alarm to find out the capacity of the tank. Do you fill it through the dipstick hole or somewhere else? I think I remember something about not opening the whole top to avoid misaligning the filter, but maybe I am confusing that guidance with the air cleaner or something else.
Going to buy a five-quart jug (DW says two) and a funnel, if needed, of 15W40. Also, I have left a very large wet spot on the formerly lovely concrete pad. What is the best thing I can do (without my pressure washer) to clean it up enough to be allowed to stay here again?
Thanks for all the helpful suggestions,
Trent
Get a drip pan and some kitty litter at a store to contain future leaking. Several products, "oil eater" "industrial purple" etc. will clean the concrete. The bubble you refer to is a sight glass and you can use it to monitor the level. You do fill it through the dipstick hole. Be carful when loosening the dipstick, only turn it enough to pull it up an out. Further unscrewing will drop the metal part into the tank.
To clean the driveway get auto parts kitty litter and grind in concrete, I use a brick. Make sure you get the white kitty litter
TWENTY-THREE QUARTS!!!
No wonder a guy can leave a large wet spot! (No further discussion needed.)
Trent
If you let the cannister run dry you can damage the oil pump which is a bigger $$$ problem than the steering gear.
Trent, I do not see an answer to the location of the oil leak?? Is it leaking from the steering box or a hose??
Your answer to how far to drive safely is possibly answered by "were is the leak"?
JohnH
If you took 23 quarts without starting engine you will probably need a few more once you start engine and circulate oil.
When was the level checked last?
You may need to start searching for a shop a little closer to do the work as the leak may be too big to drive very far.
I would get under the coach and try and pinpoint the leak.
After You get to Nac I might look you up... Am here @ Extreme for another week.
red
That (John 44) suggestion was mine as well and you have to find the leak fast and easy to see the steering box after opening the small front bay door. A MUST DO BEFORE PUTTING MORE OIL IN SYSTEM IMHO.
JohnH
Going to get oil, kitty litter, funnel, and pans. Will put kitty litter in a pan and put it behind the leak. I will back up the coach and then clean up under the front and try to find the leak source.
Then remove the sludge and cover with kitty litter. If I can find where the leak is, will check back with the forum..
Thanks, for your help,
Trent
When you start the coach have your wife outside at the front,the oil may be pouring out if a hose broke.
kitty litter - mash it in.
Have the wife start the motorhome. You need to be looking at the leak.
That is how much oil you put in the system?
When I had my leak I only went thru about 10 quarts before I found out I had a leak. I had covered the side of the coach with a coat of oil.
To get back home I took one of the oil containers and cut the top out of it and put over the steering gear. When I had the engine running I was moving. I think the 250+ miles to my home I had only went thru about 3 quarts which I was able to catch about 2 1/2" of them in my catch can.
I had a leak on our 98' U295 that started out just as you are describing. I found that it was indeed leaking from the steering gearbox. At first it was VERY slow. I drove it to Foretravel of Texas (about a 4 hr drive). They replaced the outer seal only. Long story short... It leaked again several weeks down the road. But again, it was very slow. I would just notice a few drops on the ground. I ended up having a new gearbox installed. I again drove to Nacogdoches TX. I almost didn't make it. Just as I got to Nacogdoches the "leak" turned into an all out river of fluid. I made a huge mess in MOT's parking lot and down the side of my coach. MOT installed the new gearbox and I haven't had any trouble since. If you drive with a leaking gearbox you could be playing with a ticking time bomb. Make sure to keep a very close eye on it.
Update! visited Sam's Club and bought six gallons of 15W40, in gallon sizes; a 42 pound box of kitty litter; and 18 tinfoil roasting pans. Put some kitty litter in the bottom of a pan, and placed it about three feet behind the leak center. Backed up three feet and shut the engine off.
After two hours, there was only a small amount of leakage, as seen in the first photo.
The second photo shows the steering box from the below. The side with all the bolts around the edge is on the right and is dry. The bottom has four bolts; the top two are dry, and the lower right is mostly dry, but the lower left might show a little moisture. However, the long arm on the left does have some moisture on it.
The third photo shows the bottom of that arm and where it is attached. (Maybe one of these is called a Pittman arm?) The red circle shows a drop that is about to fall. The leak appears to be up there somewhere, but I could not get a better look without installing my safety stands and getting really dirty (which I managed to do without the safety stands).
Back to the hydraulic tank. (I had forgotten to pick up a funnel, but DW let me *have* one of her collapsible funnels to add fluid; she did not want it back.) With her assistance, I added one whole gallon without anything showing in the sight glass, or anything on the dipstick. Started the second gallon and got about one quart in before it showed in the sight glass; the dipstick showed at the top of the ADD mark. Added a little more, to the middle of the COLD mark.
I lost five quarts of hydraulic fluid, in an unknown period of time. Prior to refilling, I was losing only a few drops an hour. I did not restart the engine after refilling the hydraulic tank, because I was content with my existing data. We will leave in the morning and head towards NAC. We will stop regularly to check the tank level, adding fluid when needed.
So far, I have not experienced any signs of the power steering failing to work properly or make unusual noises. We will continue to monitor its performance, along with the fluid level. Without additional problems, we hope to make NAC by noon on Friday, where I will get Bill's "old" seat while he enjoys his new throne. Afterwards, we head for home, where we have doctor appointments on Monday and Wednesday.
I still do not know where my leak is originating, I suspect it is hydraulic fluid, used for power steering. I have been complaining that my steering wheel is too sloppy and requires too much input while trying to drive a straight line. A rebuilt steering box would probably solve that problem. I hope the process of replacing it will also fix my hydraulic leak, but that remains to be seen. Anyone have a redhead blueprinted steering box laying around?
With this detailed report, I hope you experienced fofumers can help diagnose my problem and point me to the next step, especially if it is drastically different than my outlined travel plans. I am encouraged by the slowness of the leak, and the lack of apparent steering problems. Since I did not win the lottery tonight, maybe the full hydraulic tank will also solve my sloppy centering problem.
Thanks for the support I have received so far, and for any additional guidance you can provide,
Trent
Trent,
If you can make Nac before dark it would be good. We have a Spring Storm Alert
for tomorrow night. They are predicting high winds and rain, low for tornados and
hail.
Have a safe trip,
Carter-
I have recently returned from my trip to California and had just taken my coach out of winter storage of 6 months. Unfortunately, this time the storage was dead storage and with no real access to the coach to start and drive every 3 to 4 weeks as I normally do. Before the trip I checked all the usual points, fluids, belts, pressures, and levels. Everything seemed fine until I got to southern Oregon and when stopping for the night I had the tell tale signs of oil down the side of the coach and a few spots of oil under the box. I managed to crawl under the coach and check out the leak and it was from the high pressure exerted when turning, especially sharp turns. When I checked my reservoir for the power steering I was down about a pint, so I topped it off. I could not do much as it was a Sunday and when I called a few shops they mentioned about a 2 week wait. I was on a 3 week holiday trip to visit my sister's place in Calif. and go to Disneyland after the long winter. I decided to keep it topped off at every stop and it only used about another pint in almost 1000 miles. I knew it was the sector shaft seals and had no problem with noise or steering problems. The funny thing was when I was in Bakersfield on the return trip I topped it off with about a pint of half synthetic 15w40 as I grabbed the wrong jug. By the time I got to Northern California the leak had stopped and I have not had a problem since, which happened to be another 800 plus miles. This, I'm sure, may not work for everyone but I think my seal was just dry from the lack of use. I did pick up a set of seals from Straight Line Steering Inc. over the phone so I can replace them myself or if I get the chance for a rebuild I will do it. Yes, it is a hard decision to make but depending upon the severity of the leak some may be able to get away with this too. Just be aware that these boxes are not light, about 100 lbs, I think they mentioned so be sure to get help before dropping it on your foot or worse and removing the pitman arm a special tool and air wrench will be needed if you decide to tackle it yourself. I wish you the best of luck on your problem and hope you get it resolved quickly.
Also, check youtube for videos on how to rebuild the box. Just enter "M100 Sheppard steering box" and there will be a video for just about every possible seal replacement.
John
Tulsa Trent,
In your second picture, notice the very small standard screw recessed to the right of center.
That and one like it on the top of the box set max cut angle. The further out the screw, the more the cut angle. You may be able to gain cut angle if carefully adjusting them.
Remember, the physical stops (axle to knuckle) are to prevent tire interference with body or suspension parts. The screws on the Sheppard box should be adjusted to give you an air gap so that the axle never gets to the physical stops. Hitting the stops SUBSTANTIALLY raises hydraulic pressure and can easily blow seals.
Trent,
Downstream drop me a pm. There definitely is a shop in NAC not to use for this work in my opinion. I will give you my experience and you draw your own conclusion. Business practice not mechanical expertise.
Given my experience you are getting some great advice here. If I knew then what I know now I would have stayed put and sent it out for blueprinting.
Good luck buddy!
Trent,
It sounds like you did not run the engine long - just long enough to back it up a bit...and you made no turns.
The power steering system is not "pressurized" until the engine (and power steering pump) is running. The pressure in the system goes up when you turn the steering wheel. As Brett states, It goes WAY up if you turn the wheel (either direction) all the way and hit the "stops".
My only comment would be that you did not actually "test" the steering system with your short engine run and move. When you actually start out for your trip to NAC, I would recommend (after a few miles of driving) another "stop, look and assess the leak". If you are lucky, there will be no change and you can continue your journey. If the leakage has increased in volume, then you will have to make more frequent stops to check and replenish the level in your oil reservoir.
Good luck!
I have been looking at specs for the Sheppard-M100-Steering-Gears and redhead rebuild services for some time.
First I offer this ad and then a few comments and questions.
Nice Rebuilt Sheppard M100 Steering Gear Cast# M100PCTR- Ships Free!! | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nice-Rebuilt-Sheppard-M100-Steering-Gear-Cast-M100PCTR-Ships-Free-/182488238674?_trksid=p2385738.m2548.l4275)
Comments
1)This looks like a large truck repair company
2) the sticker in the pictures says it was re-manufactured by Sheppard.
Questions
The listed gear has a cast id of "PCTR". I have run across vendors that sold (listed) many different cast #s
I think some of the differences refer to whether the adjustment throws are automatic or not.
Qs
1) What do the different cast #s tell me?
2) Is the above referenced gear what I want for my '96?
Here is a picture of a 96
Steering Gear Oil Leak - 96 U270 (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=20546.msg150123#msg150123)
Chuck said what I would have mentioned. Run the engine and turn the steering to build up pressure to see leak.
Bretts answer re- stops is my thought causing leak as yours may be the same problem mine was- incorrect setting of stops on the frame, causing the hydraulic plunger to not swap over direction relief valve and reduce pressure. It keeps building up and blows top seals. J D Stevens explained to me while I was having same problem and also how to remove them with box in place.
Run engine and fine that leak Trent!!
I also concur with G and Steph's comment on who not to go to in Nac as I was PMd by a few on this matter.
I hope for you that if the box is the problem it is only the same fix as mine was. Seal kit was $25 and took about 4 hrs to re & re once I had parts.
Take care U 2
JohnH
John, care to share on who not to go to in Nac if one wants to repair their steering box?
We are parked overnight at Camp Foretravel in Nacogdoches. Will visit parts department this morning and get back on the road to Owasso. Ducky ran fine with the usual sloppy steering around the center. Plan to get a redhead blueprinted steering box to replace ours and, in the R&R process let one of the NAC shops eliminate any remaining leak, if any.
Just found out that a tornado touched down about four miles from our home! Anxious to check that we did not have any damage from the storm.
Thanks for all the great advice and support from y'all,
Trent
Trent,
While you have your steering system apart you should look at replacing the dust boots that are missing (your last pic.) from your ball joints (if the ball joints aren't wore out).
You will need 4- # L24VC0109
Pamela & Mike
My so called humble opinion is to change the whole joint for a few dollars more,you have to disassemble the harder part anyway.