We've put about 2000 miles on our rebuilt engine, with half of that after the oil pressure sender was replaced at the 1000 mile oil change. I've noticed two things in that time. First, the oil still looks new. Prior to the overhaul, the oil would be black within a few hundred miles. Second, now that the oil pressure sender isn't leaking the Jeep is staying much cleaner and there are NO oil drips on the ground.
Questions: Delo 400 40 weight oil is the correct oil for this engine, is it not? The jugs say the oil is NOT for DD 2-cycle engines. I'm confused.
Second, I'm going to start doing oil analysis. I'm guessing that now is about the right time to send in a sample for a base. What company is the preferred one to use?
We like Buy an Engine Oil Analysis Kit Today | Engine Oil Analysis Service (http://jglubricantservices.com/)
Tom is a retired Allison fluids engineer and a member here http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1603 He is active on a number of RV forums.
No, it's not the correct oil for the engine. It requires Delo 100 SAE40 or another low ash equivalent. Shell Rotella is on the edge ash wise and Delo 400 is quite a bit over. Buy it or order it at parts stores or Chevron bulk plant. Chevron has a bulletin out on the differences. Also, never a multi-grade oil. The shop should have known the difference if they had any 2-cycle experience.
Read this PDF, especially the last paragraph: Delo 400 (http://www.samsmarine.com/Manuals/Chevron/Chevron/Delo%20400.htm)
Pierce
I use Chevron Delo 100 40 wt.
I buy 6 gallons (1 pale and 1 gallon jug) from a local Chevron oil supplier. They always have it in stock.
Supplier locater: Marketer Locator | Chevron Lubricants (http://www.chevronlubricants.com/en_US/about-us/marketer-locator.html#.WRMo61XyuUk)
Mine uses about 5-1/2 gallons (maybe a little less) for a change which leaves a little extra to carry around in case I need to top off.
This is based on the recommendation from this site: Detroit Diesel 2 Cycle 2 Stroke Engine operating Oil Tips (http://www.tejascoach.com/tips.html)
Thanks. This is what MOT put in when they did the oil change. Looks like I need another oil change.
I recently bought a case (3gals) of Delo 100-40-1 at O'reileys. They didn't have it on the shelf it but had it for me the next day. I had to explain that it was specifically for Detroit 2 cycles and had them look it up on their inventory system. $19.99/gal.
I've used Blackstone Laboratories twice for oil analysis and am happy with the reports. Blackstone Labs (http://www.blackstone-labs.com/)
They will send you free kits for collection and mailing them back. Blackstone Labs (http://www.blackstone-labs.com/free-test-kits.php)
Jerry
That almost happened to me at FOT. I caught the tech wheeling up the clearly marked Delo 400 10-40. I stopped him and had to convince the service writer that Delo 100 40w was the only thing to put in he 2 cycles.
I'd call MOT they owe you a refund.
see ya
ken
They sure do owe you an oil change. Hard to have confidence when they are not up to speed on the 2 cycle oil requirements. They have been making this engine's almost identical brother since 1938 so it's not something new.
Yes, 5.5 gallons does the trick. I usually order 7 gallons and have some left over. On our coast to coast and back trip in the fall, we used just under 3 quarts of Delo 100 #40. Not bad for about 6K miles. 7 gallons and filter usually costs right about $100 in gallon containers from the bulk plant. Our local timber operator sells parts and filters for 40% less than NAPA for the same NAPA gold filter.
While I like Delo 100, you are not going to hurt the engine with Shell Rotella T1 #40 as it's sulfated ash is a bit higher but still OK. It's about $5 gallon cheaper too. See specs at: http://www.kellerheartt.com/v/vspfiles/Data%20Sheets/Shell%20Rotella/GPCDOC_Local_TDS_United_States_Shell_Rotella_T1_40_(CF_CF-2)_(en-US)_TDS.pdf
Pierce
There are very few RV's on the road running 2smokes. I can see how this mistake happened. Most younger mechanics will not run into 2smokes unless they work on vintage machines.
My good friend has 12v71 in his boat and he's been running synthetic for years. Thousands of hours and almost no wear. He also just had multiple injectors seize up (mechanical DD). It's getting hard to find injectors that don't fail out of the box for DD. I saw the light and made sure I bought an RV and boat with cummins ;). I do have an old dumptruck with a 4-53N....I had a 6v92 DDEC metro bus for a few years too.
I used about the same amount after 6000 miles that I've put on my coach since 2012. Johnson Diesel here in Biloxi used Exxon XD-3 40 wt. when I changed it in 2013. The specs are close to Delo 100-40 wt. I didn't know how old the oil was and and needed to get a baseline. I was concerned when my first Blackstone report showed wear metals higher than average across the board and fuel dilution was 3.0%. They suspected a leaky injector. Injector tests with my Pro-Link looked good and I wasn't too worried.
I started using Howes diesel treatment with every fillup. After 2000 miles I did another analysis and the results showed much better wear and metals were improved in almost all cases. Fuel dilution had dropped from 3.0% to 0.5%... a nice improvement.
I was waiting for the light to change to turn onto hwy 90 today when I heard a Fire Truck coming through the intersection. It was Engine No. 13 with a DD6v92. He was pedal to the metal and haulin' a$$!
Jerry
OReillys part number is CHV 100-40-1
Jerry,
A 55 gallon barrel of your Exxon XD-3 #40 just sold at auction for $71.66. https://www.govdeals.com/index.cfm?fa=Main.Item&itemid=34&acctid=8071 Angry that they didn't take my $20 offer!!! OK, I'm lying, I didn't see it until it was sold. Would be hard to use it up. Fun trying.
Pierce
[quote author=coastprt link=msg=271634 date=1494454572
I was waiting for the light to change to turn onto hwy 90 today when I heard a Fire Truck coming through the intersection. It was Engine No. 13 with a DD6v92. He was pedal to the metal and haulin' a$$
Jerry
[/quote]
Detroits rule, others drool. ;D ;D ;D
P
I have had a similar experience with FOT starting to use Delo 400. I also caught them and told Alton the Shop Manager who quickly educated the youngsters of 6V92 oil requirements. I don't think one oil change with Delo 400 will hurt the engine but my experience is that the engine will burn it up quickly.
I can also confirm that you need the part number at most Orielly stores. They don't stock Delo 100 and can't easily find it in their computer. Just give them 100-40-1 for the gallon containers.
By the way my TOW STROKE DON"T SMOKE.
Okay, I have a case of three gallons riding around in the back of the Jeep. I had O'Reilly's order it in for me while we were at Truman Lake last week. I wonder if I can take it back to another store and have them get the right stuff. Have to call them tomorrow. Would it make any difference if I put in the right oil as needed, or should I just add the 400 that I have and then change oil on schedule?
On the way up to Lincoln yesterday I passed a sign advertising big rig oil changes for a certain price and that included a free steak dinner. Too bad I didn't know then what I know now.
Called MOT Thursday, left a message, and got a call back shortly before we were going to leave for a funeral. I explained the situation to them and asked that they call me back yesterday. They did, and admitted that they put in the wrong oil. They said that the Delo 400 was okay until fairly recently, when Chevron changed the formula. They have agreed to refund the price of the oil change.
David, with that fresh engine I would change that oil out real soon!
Recently like in a geological time scale. What a spin. It's been years since Chevron made the change. In aviation, not only are there first class parts and shop manuals but the manufacturer and the FAA have bulletins and AD notes when problems are found. RV owners pay about the same price coach vs airplane but just get kicked down the road for after sales care.
Detroit 2 cycle owners should be looking at the specs for the sulfated ash as a percent by weight. The requirement is 1% or less. Delo 100 is 0.8%. Exxon XD-3 is close and well under the 1%. Detroit 6V-92TAs have one camshaft for each cylinder bank. The camshaft operates the 4 exhaust valves (no intake valves) per cylinder plus they have a lobe for each injector. The injector requires higher pressure from the camshaft and pushrod compared to the valves and this is where part of the problem lies. The exhaust valves may see more carbon with the incorrect oil and the low sulfated ash oil reduce the deposits. Single grade synthetic should be great in a 2 cycle.
David, good for you for being persistant. Squeaky wheel does get the grease.
Pierce
Also the low ash helps control carbon buildup which will cause premature cylinder liner scoring.
I try and keep enough extra in the bay to do a complete oil change on the road if needed. Not that I have time or money to be gone that long. But I am prepared!! ^.^d
Exactly what I was going to say! Great minds eh?
David, glad MOT owned up to it and are doing the right thing. I would get that oil changed real soon now.
see ya
ken
FYI Castroil makes a 40W that meets DD standards if you can't find Delo 100
TOM
Where did you find it? Castrol Tection Monograde DD40 does not seem to be available in the U.S.
Pierce
My local independent parts store (in MD.) carries Castrol and they ordered two 5 gal. buckets for a waterman who had a DD in his boat. Engine in the boat died and the waterman didn't need the oil. They set it out to sell it and I saw it. Been using it ever since.
TOM
How about the Castrol name on the buckets? Is it Tection or another name? I can't seem to find it. A photo of one of the buckets would get great.
P
"Single grade synthetic should be great in a 2 cycle. " Suggestions?
We made it to Riverton a day earlier than we planned due to weather, and we're here until 5 July, so I've got some time to find someplace to change the oil. Several people have suggested that I switch the Jeep to synthetic oil, and I'm thinking that maybe that would be a good idea for the Detroit. I should probably switch the generator over, too.
I have used synthetic oils in everything including chain saws, dirt bikes, Kaw 500, almost all of our cars with excellent results. What stops me from using it in the U300 is just the cost. With 5.5 gallons needed for our coach, the cost is just beyond our budget. I do like to change oil every year or sooner if we take a lot of trips so this would be a major expense and I don't see it really extending engine life as it should last forever as is.
Pierce
Pierce, with having Syn in all places on our coach and the bit more expensive Amsoil we use, I find that oil and filter changes are double the usual mileage ( and more sometimes) so it really works out not that more than using reg' oil in my opinion.
I feel the syn gives us better heat control too.
Just my thoughts of course.
JohnH
John,
The synthetic does give better lubrication and works well at high temps, won't coke so turbos last longer with poor owner engine operation.
Regular synthetic does cost about twice as much as Delo 100/Exxon but since I don't like to go over 10,000 miles before changing, I would have to go about 20,000. Probably not a big deal but I do worry about diesel in the oil contamination, etc so I'm probably old school but I'll stick at least once a year changes.
Pierce
I think it's Tection but it's at my shop about 40 miles away. I'll look and let you know when I go over there.
TOM
Most of the farm supply stores, Tractor Supply, Agra-supply, and whatever you have out West, carry Delo 100 and/or off brand non detergent 40 wt. oil in 5 gal. buckets for farm equipment and off road heavy equipment. It will say that it is for DD two strokes and generally is between $50-$60 a 5 gal. bucket. Most auto. parts stores can order it from their warehouses but often don't stock in the stores unless they are in a farm community.
wantabe
@wantabe 6v92's do best on straight 40 wt with a low ash content. Delo 100 40wt has the lowest ash content of any oil available which is why it's prized by the 6v92 owners.
see ya
ken
Don't use non detergent oil in a Detroit Diesel or any engine that has an oil filter. The detergent makes the crud in the oil glob up so it's bigger and easier for the filter to catch. Likewise don't ever use high detergent oil in a small engine that doesn't have an oil filter or you'll wear the engine out rapidly... In short, do exactly what the manufacturer says unless you have a specific reason to change... Also be aware that synthetic oil causes gaskets and seals to shrink and will eventually cause oil leaks. Look at my dirt bike that's been running on synthetic oil for 30 years and you'll see what I mean. Conventional oil normally causes the gaskets and seals to expand a little bit and tends to prevent leaks ...but not always
Use Delo 100 straight 40 weight in the Detroit Diesel with the correct filter and you'll be fine.
Synthetic oil whether Amsoil or any other brand does not cause gaskets and seals to shrink and leak.That is a myth,old wives tale.
Have been using it for almost 40 years in old and new vehicles and never came across that problem.Think about this for a moment,
how is the oil even going to come in contact with most gaskets?How many new vehicles come with synthetic already in the
engine,are they leaking when you buy them?Don't know why your 30 year old bike has problems but have you changed the oil
in 30 years?How many lawn mowers are out there with no oil filter using detergent oil,that's why you change the oil sooner and
when you change it it's dirty and black,from detergent oil.
Again, for anyone else reading this except John, don't ever use high detergent oil in small engines without oil filters or you'll wear out your small engine very rapidly. The big globs of crud going through the engine cause much more wear than small particles of crud if there's no filter to remove it. This is common knowledge in the oil and small engine industry. As always, do exactly what the manufacturer says and ignore what you read on this forum. The easy way to remember this rule is non detergent oil for non filtered engines.
Even though youre getting way off topic here with detergent vs non detergent, lets clear up the myth with facts. The ONLY modern application for a non detergent oil is the pump of a power washer or an air compressor! (not the engine) all small engines spec a modern oil WITH detergents, no matter who makes them. Honda specs 10w-30, briggs and stratton 5w-30 or straight 30, API SJ or greater (again, modern, detergent oils in every application!)
With modern clean burning engine designs(OHV, cross flow heads, etc) and modern machining that produces better, tighter engines, the non detergent oil is simply not needed. Engines will last longer and run better on normal automotive oils, which is why the OEMs spec such oils.
The myth started way back when people switched from non detergent oil to detergent oil in their engine. The detergent oil started loosening the crud at the bottom of the pan, and crankcase in small engines and some problems came of that. Also just because you don't see an oil filter on a M/C engine doesn't mean that no filtering is taking place. The old Honda 250's and 305's from the early 60's used a centrifugal filter that had to be taken apart and cleaned.
Back to my original issue, I talked to the O'Reilley's here about returning the case of Delo 400 and getting some 100. No problem. The day after I talked to the store I had two cases of the proper oil and an oil filter. A forum member has offered to let me come out to his place to do the oil change, so that's in the works.