Hey All,
Just wanted to hop in and say Hi.
My with and I just got our first Foretravel. 1986 Grandvilla 3300 GVF SBI. 1987 Chevy 454 Big Block with about 43K miles on it.
Coach is in very good shape for it's age.
My wife and I and kids are moving into in a few weeks and gonna start a round the country trip.
I can't believe how well these coaches are built. So nice.
*************
We got word about 3 weeks ago that our land lord was selling our house and we had 60 days to move out. So we decided we'd take that year long trip we've been talking about for 5 years.
So we hoped in the car that day and headed out across the country to look at three differant GrandVillas. We drove from Cali to Kansas to see one. It was a trash heap (owner lied about it's condition). Then we saw all our midwestern family. Then we stopped in Texas to look at the coach we ended up buying.
Then we drove it all the way back to Cali. Using it all the way. It should be perfect for our little family for now.
If we fall in love with full timing... we might buy a bigger diesel coach. We shall see.
***************
We've had the coach at home for a week now. Been doing renos.
Completed Renos:
- New Tires all around (dealer did this for us before we bought it)
- New Starter, New Alternator, and new batteries (These were done on the road home - had a starting issue on one day of the trip)
- Cleaned and Wet sanded fiberglass roof (it was black with dirt and oxidation - now it's shiny and clean and beautiful)
- Replaced some broken interior door locks
- Polished windshield (looks so nice now)
- Pulled out all curtains
Needed/wanted Renos:
- Pull Decals off of coach
- Wet Sand/Buff/Polish/Wax entire coach
- Pull carpet. Install vynal floor.
- Pull carpet off of walls in bedroom and bathroom. Replace with cool vynal products the RV reno shop showed us.
- Replace countertops with Corian.
- Replace carpet on engine bay and captain area.
- Replace curtains with Day/Night Roller Shades
- Replace nearly all latches on the outside storage doors (some chains needs replacement too)
- Redo the fabric on the valances.
- Sand/polish wood as needed.
- Replace couch. Couch that's there is fine. It's just ugly. Lol.
- Rebuild the table on the sidewall. Last owner removed it. My wife wants it back. So we'll make it. My step-dad is a wood worker. Shouldn't be too hard. And we can probably match the cabinets.
- Re-Do most wiring on engine. Wires are old and brittle.
- Reseal engine to stop minor oil leak
- Replace windshield wiper fluid tank
- Fix a couple of plumbing fixtures that drip (fresh water tank filler valve drips. Water filter valve drips.)
- Fix fresh water tank leak. (it's leaking under the coach somewhere). That's the only problem in the water system though. When plugged into city water... Everything works. No leaks anywhere else except the drip on the couple of valves. They don't drip when in off position.
- Figure out either how to use the tag axle air suspension or fix it if it's broken. Either way it doesn't fill up now. But I haven't found the air pressure tank or how to turn it on. There is an air hose though. So I know there is something. Lol.
- A few fiberglass repairs. Couple of small stress cracks on roof. One small chip on driver side. Some damage that was my fault to the back door of the coach.
- Figure out how to use the ice maker. Fix it if it's broken.
- Replacing florescent lights with LEDs
- Add solar to roof
- Replace most of the rain covers on the roof.
- Fix switch on the Dometic Royale fridge. The on switch is finicky. It turns on... but doesn't click into that position and can be jostled to the off position easily.
- Replace mattress
- Maybe redo the leather on the dash to be a nicer color. It's in great shape. But it's a dark brown color we don't like.
- Maybe paint or restain the wood paneling on the walls. The wood on wood on wood look it a little overwhelming. But we are going to redo the other things first and see if we can make it less overpowering with wood. Maybe it'll be fine. We shall see.
I'm pretty sure that's it. I'll post pictures and stuff as we renovate it. It's gonna go quick. Cause we gotta move into it.
Good Luck Enjoy the Ride.
Have fun with all your upgrades. I believe most people will find with these coaches, buy them cheap, pay and do all the things yourself, pay a little more and get close to what you want. It really is a wash in the end.
Have fun!
Welcome to the group! Sounds like you'll be VERY busy, but please DO document the adventure with lots of photos. We LOVE photos!
The speed I work, I'd be lucky to make it through your "To Do" list in less than a year! Can't really imagine doing all that stuff while actually living in the coach, but it sounds like you've got a plan, so GOOD LUCK! I'd concentrate on the drivability and mechanical issues first...worry about the cosmetic and decorative changes later. Last thing you want when full-timing is a breakdown on the side of the road - tends to make the family nervous and cranky. But that's just me - your wife may have different ideas/priorities.
Remember: "Happy Wife (partner/companion/friend with benefits) = Happy Life".
Welcome! We love pictures! ;D
WOW!!! Welcome to coach ownership. What a leap of faith you have taken. We wish you the best. The folks on this forum are the best.
Wood on the wall will be great if you change the upholstery fabrics. Easy to bring the wood to like new. Don't toss the sofa, just reupholster. Lots of posts on the forum that should help with most of your proposed changes.
Pierce
Welcome. Make full use of the search function on here as most or all of the things you are going to do have been covered and done by others. Questions? We love them almost as much as pictures. Also look at This excellent site
Foretravel Specifications, Floor Plans, Photos & Brochures (https://wiki.foreforums.com/doku.php?id=through_the_years:specs)
Keith
Welcome aboard!
Young & ambitious, I need some of that. But before you start your epic journey, have the hydraulic brake fluids changed and pads checked. Getting a loaded coach going is easy, discovering the brake fluid has absorbed moisture can be disastrous. Brake fluid is cheap. Once packed have the axles weighed at a truck scale.
Welcome!
I just got an 86' GV as well, though mine's on the Oshkosh chassis.
Agree on redoing the couch. Unless the PO (previous owner) changed it out you have a well made frame (as opposed to an
SOB (some other brand) that put cheap junk in for furniture. Get the generator fully checked out so it will not have problems
in 105 degree weather with the family on board. Also think about adding seat belts to the couch it will give the kids a sense of
safety and if you get into heavy traffic or you have to make a sudden stop or lane change you do not have to worry about
where they are and if they are safe. Curtains, upholstery fabric, lighting and carpet will offset the wood color. Be sure to run bleach
through your water system and I would add a good water filter. Might think about changing out the CO2 and propane
detectors, they have about a 5 year life span for safe operation. I am trying to restore an '84 40' with Cat diesel and it seems you
have gotten more done in a few weeks than I have in two years. It has a pull down double bunk over the driver and passenger.
A shame it has to be in a coach for old folks like us. With kids an ice maker will be important. See how much it will cost to
repair yours and look around, there are several RV used parts places over the country and used might be cheaper than repair?
Most of us on here are older and it is so great to see several younger families taking up coach life. This is the start of an adventure
that the kiddos will never forget and such a great bonding for the family unit. There is another family traveling on here, the Walker7.
Maybe some of the younger coach owners will check in and all of you can visit on here. Again welcome here and it is wonderful
to see another generation hitting the road.
Carter Langford
Nacogdoches, Texas
Welcome aboard neighbor! We are just down the road from you in Scripps Ranch. Enjoy the ride!
Regarding your ice maker....
U-Line Refrigerator Ice Maker Assembly 80-54372-00 | RepairClinic.com (https://www.repairclinic.com/PartDetail/U-Line-Refrigerator-Ice-Maker-Assembly/805437200/4455859?ss=a4b183c47&mr=0)
Not inexpensive but well worth it to us. I use a lot of ice and I wanted mine to work, which now it does!
I can't wait to see pictures. Don't forget to take before pics! Welcome!
Close...actually they go by Walkerfam7. If you ever meet them (like we have), you won't forget them. I mean that in a GOOD way! ^.^d
http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?action=profile;u=4266
@stump - Thanks! Should be fun.
@cubesphere - Yeah, that's what we figured. We got a great price on it. Couldn't believe it actually. This way we get to make it our own. Not someone else, it that makes sense. Money isn't an issue, so we can pretty much do what we want to it. Time is more the concern for us.
@Chuck & Jeanie - I've had two mechanics look at it already. And my brother and I will be going over everything in the engine together (he's a fantastic mechanic). We'll get it in tip top shape. But I've already put 1500 miles on it during the trip home. It drives and runs beautifully already.
We've been lurking on the Foreforums for a while now. So I've seen WalkerFam7 around. Watched a lot of their YouTube Videos. I can't wait to meet them.
@Jeff & Sandy - Pictures are coming! I've just been busy working on the coach. Lol. And thanks for the IceMaker links.
@Forewheelers - Thanks! Glad to be here. Quite the warm reception.
@Pierce & Gaylie Stewart - Yeah. I like the wood. Just want to make it less overwhelming. Which I think we can do by lightening up everything else.
@Old Phart Phred - Wonder screen name btw. Thanks for the tips. That will all go on my list. Just curious newb question... but why have the "Axels weighed"? And what's that even mean?
@Flopsie - Sweet! Aren't they cool? Love pretty much everything about it. I'm not sure which chassie our has.
@TexasGuy - I'll see about reupholstering the coach. The jack knife sags a little when turned into a bed. The kids fall off of it. Lol.
The generator is being worked on. It's got a bad voltage regulator board. The dealer who sold it to me is shipping me the board. We'll get it running good before we leave.
The couch already has three seat belts.
Good call on the bleach. I'll add that to the list.
I've already replaced the CO2 and Fire Detector. And I've added the Propane detector to the list.
I'd love to see pics of your pull down bunks! Maybe it's something we could build into ours. The kids would love bunks.
And yeah, my business gives me a lot of freedom and I'm young and fit. So spending 12 hours a day doing reno work means I can get a lot done very quickly. :) Only problem is right now I've very sore. Lol.
@rbark - Scripts Ranch is close. We drive by there all the time. Wife and kids love the La Jolla area. Maybe we can meet up sometime.
@Michaelhayley - I should have taken more before pics of the outside. Before I started removing decals and wet sanding the fiberglass. The roof was totally gross looking. Now it's beautiful. I'll make sure to take plenty of before pics of the interior.
@All - Thanks for the warm welcome!
Chuck,
I know close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades !
The memory is not what it used to be.
Varter-
Since you also mentioned the couch sagging, did you happen to see the new Flexsteel couch that makes into bunks?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JACYqZcxImw
That's very cool! We have no need for bunk beds, but I applaud the concept.
If I'm a kid, I'm thinking I would want the
top bunk, just in case...you know...maybe Mom or Dad didn't get it locked
correctly in the UP position. :o
I'm working on a similar project, on a p30 chassis 454 chevy/gmc. I replaced the starter and added a heat shield. I have an engine heat issue so am also replacing the fan clutch and adding an electric radiator fan. I'm also adding solar on top. Are we having fun yet?
wantabe
They don't call those 454 engines "B.B.Q. Specials" for nothing, you can wrap a steak in foil, put it on the manifold, and in a few minutes, it's done! I'd heard Banks made a set of headers to "beat the heat", worth checking. ^.^d
I think with the tag axle you have the P-30 Chassis which GM made. Mine is the smaller Oshkosh one. v-814. Both of those were for gas engines, since they didn't have to carry a zillion tons of cast iron for the big diesel engines. They only downside I see is the water capacity seems to be smaller. I'm guessing but it looks like I only have a 40 gallon fresh tank. Mine also had the Ford 460 in it, but one of the Previous owners converted it to a Ford 7.3 IDI diesel.
Please post pics of all your upgrades. I've been focused on mechanical and electrical stuff so far, so I'll be taking notes on your interior work.
Welcome ,
Please help me out as a fellow newb. Is the Chevy Engine front or rear? I have both spec sheets on the beamer site . There is a rear engined Chevy Rat GV down the road from me at another shop. It also has a tag. What Chassis is the rear engine gas?
If it is a front engine, P30 chassis , flush the hydraulics/rebuild the calipers if stuck.
Check out the parking brake system . I serviced a P 30 front engined RV for a few years and the common issues were the parking brake pump fails and the bus wont move , do a little preemptive investigation. It is a large drum brake on the rear of the trans.
The "Banks headers/ intake " helped a ton on power. 0to 60 went from 22sec to about 17. Fuel use went from 7.5 to 8.2.
The heat issues are real ,the oil filter is near the headers, exhaust and a shield helps . Cold air intake helps. Nice big exhaust( if not Banks) will have a nice return. IMHO.
If you get tired of the Rat, many of the FMC guys are swapping the Duramax/Allison into the smaller FMC coaches .
Thanks for taking the time to post here . There seems to be a huge cross section of social/economic/demographic backgrounds here. All very nice .
I'd buy that coach in a heart-beat if I could find it anywhere. It doesn't seem to be available from Flexsteel's website. I should call them and see if I can order it.
You can swap it for a diesel? That's awesome. I'd totally do that if the engine was bad. I'll be sure to post pics of the interior work. :)
I have no idea which how to answer your question about the chassis. But mine is definitely a front engine with a tag axle.
Thanks for the tips on the brakes. I'll add that to my list of things to check out. Same with the headers.
I'll have my brother look at the heat issues with me. The engine doesn't seem to overheat. Even driving over mountains getting it home. So I'm not sure what to make of that.
I'm not sure what you mean by "If you get tired of the rat". But I'm excited to know you can swap the transmission. Can you get an extra gear by going to the Allison? The one in it only has three gears. Though I've been told the transmission is a beast... very strong.
"RAT" = common nickname for a "big block" Chevy/GM engine. Your 454 is a rat engine.
Duramax/Allison swap: This would involve removing your existing gas engine and transmission, and replacing it with a diesel engine and trans. The Allison automatic may be 5 or 6-speed. Swapping a gas engine for diesel engine is expensive, but can yield big gains in power/economy.
Duramax Buyer's Guide: How To Pick The Best GM Diesel | DrivingLine (http://www.drivingline.com/articles/duramax-buyers-guide-how-to-pick-the-best-gm-diesel/)
Another option, if your existing engine is in good shape, and you are happy with the power level, is to add a Gear Vendors Under/Overdrive unit to your 3-speed transmission. Can give you a more flexible range of transmission gears, and
may improve gas mileage. Still expensive, but cheaper than a complete engine/trans swap.
Gear Vendors Under/Overdrive Motorhome, RV's 3-Speed Automatic with Parking... (http://www.gearvendors.com/mh3speed.html)
Welcome to the group. We are also neighbors down in Poway. It sounds like you have a good eye for detail and are willing to do the work. I've found that this is the best way to learn about your rig. The biggest investment you will ever make is in the memories you create with the kids while they are young. Getting a motorhome is a great way to do it. Good luck and we look forward to hearing about your adventures.
And, also, welcome to OUR neighborhood---owners of Foretravel coaches built in the 80s. :))
We even "allow" owners of newer coaches in. Why? Because many of them have been thru our neighborhood and have so very much to offer in the way of knowledge and experience. ^.^d
It is always a pleasure to see someone take one of these "sleeping beauties" and bring her back to life.
Good bones are worth saving and these ladies are beautiful when they have been treated to some loving care.
Chevys were notorious for exhaust manifold leaks. Probably fixed long ago.
End exhaust manifold bolts would break off from the manifold growing from heat cycles
We have some friends with a B.B.Q. special that they got sick of. Found a fresh Duramax/Allison in a recently totaled pick-up.
He and his Dad are mechanics with a full shop and lift, so the labor was free. They love it after fooling with the install, wiring, etc.
He kept track of the costs (and what their labor would have been) and figured the whole change-out (including the engine/trans) done by a reputable shop would have been around 20 CBs. That is one sweet combination, though! ^.^d
Does this look like your coach?
This article indicates that coaches with the Chevy 454 have a Roadmaster Chassis.
But this link talks about Roadmaster being purchased by Monaco from Chrysler in 1984: Diesel Pusher Motorhome Chassis Comparison (http://serenitysys.com/rv/diesel_pusher_motorhome_chassis.htm)
This brings up more questions than answers in regards to your chassis.
Did your coach come with an owners manual (or binders)? They should indicate what chassis you have.
Also is there any logo on the steering wheel? or ignition key?
The transmission shift control, dash instruments and controls, parking brake, gas and brake pedals are all typically chassis supplier parts that might give you a hint at who the manufacture is.
you could probably do a 454 to Cummins 5.9 12v diesel. Anything newer with a computer would be... challenging.
I talk like some authority, but my contribution to the swap in my coach was looking in the engine bay and saying OH WOW A DIESEL.
The 7.3 IDI in mine adds about 200 pounds more weight, more reliability and theoretically double the fuel economy. I haven't tested that yet. I'm still about a week away from getting mine on the road. It came in a bit worse shape than yours.
Oh, and the 7.3IDI was supposed to be a direct swap from the ford 460. i think you would need some engine mount work for a cummins. I know nothing about the Duramax, so I can't ad anything there.
Did'nt the medieval alchemests know how to create gold???
Lol. Yes and that's actually why I have the Screenname. My business is marketing. I tell my clients that good marketing is like modern day alchemy... it allows you to turn your words into gold. :)
Thanks for the welcome. I've been really enjoying working on the rig so far. Even if it's a pain in the ass. Lol. Can't wait to get on the road with the kids.
Glad to be here. I specially wanted a Grand Villa. I love the shape. Love the look. Love how the insides were made. I'm so glad to have gotten a 33 footer. Seems like the perfect size. Not too big. Not too small. Can't wait to bring it back to it's glory days with a little effort.
I have "Cherry Bombers" On the exhaust. Not sure what those are... but it makes the exhaust sound dumb and loud. Probably part of the "fixed long ago" thing.
Lol. That's about how I do engine stuff... *opens up the engine bay*... "OH LOOK... AN ENGINE!"
That's why I have my brother and dad around. I mean, I know how to get myself dirty and fix things that need fixing. But I'm just not an engine guy.
Amazon.com: Cherry Bomb 87529 Glasspack Muffler: Automotive (https://www.amazon.com/Cherry-Bomb-87529-Glasspack-Muffler/dp/B003E5P7PG/ref=pd_sbs_263_1?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B003E5P7PG&pd_rd_r=VVCCSDA11D9KA7508PKJ&pd_rd_w=knztD&pd_rd_wg=6kUMK&psc=1&refRID=VVCCSDA11D9KA7508PKJ)
Yes, you would need to check the bell housing for compatibility and engine mounts would have to be fabricated.
Totally get rid of the 7.3 IDIs spin on fuel filter, fuel heater, etc, etc. It's notorious for causing air leaks in at least a half dozen spots. Go to NAPA and buy a spin on filter and mount and then run hoses to the engine. I also installed a 12V Facet fuel pump. The round type not the square one. Mount where you can easily get to it to change filters.
The 7.3 did double the fuel mileage.
Watch for overheating when you first get it going.
Pierce
Can a less expensive ice maker be adapted to fit?
Refrigerator Ice Maker Assembly IM116000 | RepairClinic.com (https://www.repairclinic.com/PartDetail/Refrigerator-Ice-Maker-Assembly/IM116000/3436840?ss=a4c47&mr=0)
Welcome. Show us pictures.
Ding some updates on ours too.
Chris
Or free up some space and use this.Igloo Compact Ice Maker, Black - Walmart.com (https://www.walmart.com/ip/Igloo-Compact-Ice-Maker-Black/21311883?action=product_interest&action_type=title&beacon_version=1.0.2&bucket_id=irsbucketdefault&client_guid=ebfc2cf5-b7c9-4382-8c8d-57b49ee001e7&config_id=106&customer_id_enc&findingMethod=p13n&guid=ebfc2cf5-b7c9-4382-8c8d-57b49ee001e7&item_id=21311883&parent_anchor_item_id=13308699&parent_item_id=13308699&placement_id=irs-106-t1&reporter=recommendations&source=new_site&strategy=PWVUB&visitor_id=fbBwWZ3T2yzkQWoPplyUgk)
For what it is worth: We bought an Igloo Ice Maker two years ago.
It got constant use making ice to put on the DW's right knee after her knee replacement surgery. And It held up admirably!
Definitely worth the price.
We put Thorley (sp) headers on our 454 in a South Wind from another generation. Got rid of a lot of heat and really improved the performance plus that great header rumble.
The Doug Thorley headers are Cal. certified for smog also. If installed according to instructions.
UPDATE: We have finished a lot of the stuff on our checklist.
√ - Remove all vinyl decals from the outside of the coach. Wet-sanding and buffing is next.
√ - Plumbing under the bed finished
√ - Plumbing under the sink finished (replaced water filter with new one)
√ - Valances have had their fabric updated and curtains are being made. Should be done today. Valances look fantastic now.
√ - RV is packed and ready to move into. :)
I'll update with more pictures soon.
Our ice maker went south last year. We replaced it with Amazon.com: Sunpentown IM-150US Stainless Steel Undercounter Ice Maker with... (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000WO5892/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1) and have been very happy with it. It was almost a direct drop-in. I only had to remove one small piece of trim wood and seal up the drain hole in the new freezer. The fan is much noisier but you get used to it.
If you get too worn out on your project you might want to consider taking your coach to "Rocky Point" (Puerto Penasco), Mexico. Its only 90 miles south of the border and a very safe area. I understand you can get much of the body work and upholstery done very inexpensively in Mexico.
Best of luck on your project.
Another update on progress:
√ - Bathroom re-caulked
√ - Redid plumbing for freshwater intake. Had a small drip leak.
√ - Hinged and added gas powered lifts to the bed. Now it's not a pain in the Pa-tooty to open and close.
√ - Propane leak fixed
√ - BBQ Attachment added to propane bay
√ - Water heater sensors replaced
√ - Water heater spark assembly replaced
√ - Removed ice-maker (water supply line was snapped in half... and didn't want to figure out how to re-run it from the bathroom, under the floor in the master, and back up into the wall on the other side to fix it. So I took it out. Finished the inside of the cabinet. And put in a slide drawer in the bottom of it that our laundry basket fits onto. We will made a new matching Teak wood cabinet door for it eventually... when I decide I want to spend $135 for teak wood to make the door).
√ - Crack in generator muffler repaired
√ - Full generator service completed (new voltage regulator board installed with proper sized fuze, new spark plugs, new oil filter, new oil, new air filter, and some new screws to hold it all together). Works beautifully now.
√ - Air Bags on tag axles replaced.
√ - Air Leak in tag axle system fixed
√ - Temp switch for Air Compressor installed until new pressure switch arrives.
I think that's it for now. We did all of this while living and working in it full time.
Only have a few more functional updates to get done.
- Carburetor adjustment for smog (and license in CA)
- New pressure switch installed for Tag Axle system (plus remove my temp override switch)
- Figure out why my Water Heater still won't light up despite having new sensors and sparker. Probably the Gas Solenoid Valve.
- New Door Latches... which I found at vintage trailer supply for $20 less per latch than Foretravel. Baggage Door Pop Lock (http://www.vintagetrailersupply.com/Baggage-Door-Pop-Lock-p/vts-680.htm). I still need $460 worth of them though... so It's gonna wait until other things are finished.
Then we can move onto cosmetic stuff like the new floor, new couch upholstery, and new decals on the outside.
Geezz, Alchemist...I'm exhausted just reading your "fixedit" list!
Good job. You'll feel much more comfortable in your coach with these issues resolved to your satisfaction. (As opposed to waiting for them to manifest themselves at a much more inconvenient opportunity.)
Have a great Fourth.
More progress these last two weeks.
-New fuel filter,
-New fuel pump,
-Cut fuel line and adjusted it so it is not longer partially kinked
-new spark plugs
-new wires
-new cap
-new rotor
-Radiator flushed (by a professional, not me)
-new thermostat (also installed by the pro)
Discovered that he Radiator overflow tank is actually just and overflow tank. Radiator fluid can come out of the radiator and go into the overflow tank... but can not get back into the radiator from there. Hence, the fill line on that tank is not an indication of how much fluid is in the radiator. Have to pop the cap to see that. And mine had only about 1.5 gallons. Took 4 gallons when refilled. Figure this explains at least part of the issues with it getting warm.
Without looking at your radiator cap, there's no way to be sure, but usually the overflow reservoir system allows "2-way" flow between tank and radiator. When the coolant gets hot, it expands in volume, and the excess pushes a spring loaded valve in the radiator cap open, which allows coolant to pass into the overflow tank. Then when the radiator cools, the coolant contracts in volume which makes a vacuum (negative pressure) in the radiator. The radiator cap "return" valve opens, and coolant is sucked out of the overflow tank and back into the radiator. In this way, the radiator is always kept full, air pockets in the cooling system are reduced or eliminated, and the engine is happy. With this setup, the side of the overflow tank has a low (cold) mark and a high (hot) mark. Any loss of coolant in the system (leaks) will be evident by a change in the "normal" level in the overflow tank.
That's how the system is supposed to work. If yours isn't doing that, perhaps you have the incorrect radiator cap. The cap should have a spring-loaded valve on the underside that you can move open and closed. It should also have a "pressure rating" printed on the cap. The spring valves come in different tensions, and they control how much pressure builds in the radiator when it is hot.
Chuck is correct on how it should work IF, repeat IF the radiator is full.
But, if there is enough air volume in the radiator itself, it will absorb the "rise" in coolant level. All that will be pushed out when the pressure reaches that of the radiator cap is AIR.
Poster child for low coolant in the radiator is an overflow bottle that does not change level cold vs hot!
To add to the radiator cap issue all pressure caps have the spring and the rubber seal at the bottom. Recovery caps have an additional rubber right at the bottom of the cap face. Without the additional rubber seal it will not pull vacuum.
Correctamundo! Diagram of generic recovery-type radiator cap:
There is certainly a pressure cap on the raditor. It does send fluid to the tank if it gets hot. But it looks physically impossible for it to pull fluid back into the tank. The hose is at the top of the tank. If the cap were to put a vacuum on that line... all it would pull back is air. The fluid is at the bottom of the tank. If that makes sense.
Makes perfect sense! The original (correct) overflow tank could have been replaced with a incorrect tank. Simple to remedy - the tanks are sold at almost every auto parts store. Look for a tank with the return hose port on the bottom of the tank, or on some really simple ones, the hose goes in the plastic "fill" cap and hangs down to the bottom of the tank.
https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/dorman-oe-solutions-3387/cooling---heating-16773/coolant-recovery-tank---universal-17482/engine-coolant-reservoir/603001/4250977
In the diagram upper spring seal, (upper left hand corner) is the additional seal for recovery. Nowadays almost all caps have them but back in the day they looked like the one on the right without the seal. Look at the cavity for the recovery it needs 2 seals
The overflow tank will not improve cooling. A good 13# cap with a good seal surface will keep the coolant proper ly pressured . The overflow tube system merely pulls the coolant back in on cool down . To make your system a recovery system , extend the overflow hose to the bottom of the tank. Make sure that the cap has the upper small seal, in addition to the large outer seal .
If it has run fine all these years , you may be wasting your effort. IMHO. Why mess with success?
Since the OP discovered that his (over-heating) engine only contained 1.5 gallons of coolant, and it took 4 gallons to refill it, I would say that his coach certainly could have benefitted from a recovery type expansion tank and cap. I don't think adding one will be a waste of effort, especially considering the low cost and simplicity of the upgrade.
Pay real close attention to the wiring loom on the left frame rail going past the exhaust manifold....The tie backs used get brittle and break then the manifold melts all the wires....not a fun thing to have happen when pulling a grade, 60 miles from nowhere.
The other thing to be aware of is that around '98 to '01 the p-30 front brake calipers had a plastic piston to work the calipers.. the plastic would wear and then cock & jamb so brakes would drag or lock up..
happy trails
Sorry Chuck, I did not see that it got hot. I just read the first trip that said it ran well.
If There is room for some sealing the edges and or shrouding the rad, it gets better. Also check the ignition timing as the P30 /rat can get hot by being ahead just a couple degrees. If it pings, back it off two, untill it stops .
Pinging can often be reduced by a cool air intake for the intake. The stock sysytem works OK with the inlet snorkle opened up. ( Banks style) and a tube to the front of the grille. 4in plastic works fine .
You can also go to a flex fan with solid driver. makes a little noise but cools well .
Shoot me a pictures of how the shrouds align with the fan tips front and back. Lots of simple 10-20% improvements possible.
Just a comment as I know there are a few "unbelievers" out there.Years ago a friend had a class c with the Ford 460,had a
overheating problem,on my advice he switched to Amsoil 0w30 ,that alone cured the problem and yes I did use the coach once
and that is all he did to it at the time.
Water wetter, may help cooling, reduces surface tension of water molecules just like dish soap. Some racers use it. Not sure if it can be mixed with antifreeze.
@John44 - Thanks! I'll try that. Got a leak I've got to get fixed before I put expensive oil in it.
Okay @Everyone-Following. :)
It's been a few months since my last post... we traveled a bunch in the coach. Went all the way up to Sacramento and back down through Yosemite with it. We're now down in San Diego again.
Trip was awesome... got a lot more fixed... and a lot more broken.
So since last update...
Things that broke:
-The old Dometic RM 3800 died, completely. No saving it. Ripped it out. Put in a cheap walmart fridge to get us through until we can buy the right replacement. Pretty sure it'll be the Dometic RM2862 or RM2852.
-The old water pump died. Had this on the replacement list anyways... but it finally gave up the ghost. Pulled it out... it was the original form 1986... surprised it worked as long as it did. Replaced it with a new sureflow. Works great.
-Propane detector (also original) bit the dust. Replaced with a new one... but the new ones don't have solenoid shut off switches built in... and we have a solenoid shut off on the tank. So... had to build a manual switch and installed it into the cabinet next to the new detector. Kind of cool to have a manual switch that turns the gas on or off at the tank.
Not to bad... that's it on the things that broke list.
Things that didn't do well:
-The engine still overheats going up hills. Any hills. All hills. It hates hills. A lot. It'll go for about 4-5 miles up a hill... and it warms up the whole way... then starts getting too hot. It goes very quickly from hot to radiator fluid boiling to losing power and shutting off. Just a few moments really from too hot to dead. But on the plus side... if you get to the top of the hill before it gets to hot... it cools right down quick. We overheated twice on the way up to Yosemite. Had to wait on the side of the mountain pass for several hours each time for the radiator to cool off. And once while sitting in traffic on flat road on the way back down to so cal... sat for 20 minutes idling... it didn't overheat exactly... but it didn't have any power when we started moving again. Had to pull off on the side of the road and let it sit. This is the most frustrating issue and I wish I knew how to solve it.
-coming down the mountain from Yosemite the brakes got too hot. We were only doing 20mph down the hill and the engine did a good job of keep it at that speed, but all the brake tapping still boiled the brake fluid by the time we got to the bottom. The brake started "fading" (that's what the mechanic called it), when we got on flat ground. I stopped it and had it towed to an RV shop. They said we basically just needed to upgrade from Dot 3 to Dot 4 Fluid. Other than that our brake system was fine. There was one blockage in the back right... possibly caused by the overheating. But the brake system is great now.
Things We've Fixed/Upgraded:
-The water heater is finally working! It wasn't working because of the Gas Solenoid valve. Replaced that and it was off to the races (or the hot showers). the mounting bracket on the new one was off by 1/4 of an inch. Had to drill a new hole in it to make it all better. It is seriously nice to have hot water in the coach.
-Added an electric conversion kit to the water heater. So now we have both gas and electric. Electric is nice cause we aren't paying electric as most resorts where we stay. Had to get a 110 plug for the water heater, didn't have one close by... so I cut the power to the non-functional blender and built a power plug box under the cabinet just for the water heater.
-We finally got to the floor! We pulled up all the carpet on the floor and the wood in the kitchen... replaced it with Vynal tiles. Looks fantastic! We love it a whole lot. Plus we got the venal on sale like 75% off at HD for .96/sqft. It was a steal. Cost more in tools to do the work than the floor cost us. Taking up the carpet was a royal pain in the ass... mostly because whoever put it in was staple gun happy. And the wood floor came up nicely... but man... there was like 1/2" of glue under there. Took several days to get sanded down. Now we just have to figure out what to do about the carpet on the walls and in the captains area.
-Yesterday, I finally got around to getting the correct batteries in the coach. We had two high cold cranking amp car batteries. Now we just have one car battery for the chassis and two lifeline 6 volt 220 amp hour AMG batteries. I have room for two more. Which would give us 440 amps. That'd be pretty awesome. But I think I'll put an inverter/solar on before I buy more batteries. But either way... we can finally attempt to boondock a little bit. Probably a day or two with our two batteries (especially now that it's cooler and we don't need AC 24/7. I still think our battery bank is wired in-correctly too. I'm not really sure though... but our master switch seems to have power at both ends and doesn't shut power off when switched off. The charge boost solenoid does work, but if you disconnect the chasis battery... everything including the engine starter still have power. If you disconnect the house batteries, everything including the engine starter still have power. I can't imagine that's correct. So I'm looking into that... gotta figure out what it's supposed to be and fix it.
-This week I finally got around to the entertainment system too. Mounted a bit larger television under the old square tv box. It fold up for driving. Put in a dvd player and mounted our apple tv. And an HDMI switcher and remote. There is no AC power up there though... So for the moment I've just got an extension cord running up the wall (that's ugly and no-one wants ugly). So I'll be running some AC wire through the wall up there and plugging into the AC wiring that's under the dash. Yay for plugs in the overhead compartments!
-More on the tech side... I bought and installed a Cell phone signal booster. The box is in a cabinet in the master. And the antenna is mounted to the old wine guard antenna pole. I pulled of the tv antenna (cause we don't use it and it was all cracked and falling apart) and mounted the booster antenna to it. Now we can rase and lower our cell booster... very cool. Plus I didn't have to drill holes in the roof to pass the cables through... I could use the existing tv antenna cables. I just bypassed the tv booster with a simple male to male plug and it worked great. Left everything intact as well and labeled it all so the next owner of this coach could switch it back with ease.
-I also just purchased a router for the coach... a Pepwave SoHo Mrk 3. It's awesome. Let's me connect to camp wifi. Connect to a cell hot spot... or anything else I want really and broadcast that signal in the coach. The kids are super excited to have internet access again. And to be able to use the Apple TV. And most importantly... Home is where the Wifi connects automatically... and ours now does that in the coach. Makes it feel very much like home. Plus, the wifi printer now is usable again and my wife can print worksheets for homeschool again. Very good.
-OH! Almost forgot, we redid all off the curtains again. Took out the residential curtain rods we had put up... cause they sucked. And put in the i-beam ones. And had my wife split each window's curtain down the middle and put magnets in. So now we can open the curtains up more easily and they stay nicely closed at night with nice magnetic clasps.
-One last thing on upgrades... and overheating. I was reading on some forums about the 454 and overheating issues. I found several people who recommended putting in a mister system in front of the radiator... cause it can drop the air temp almost 20 degrees. So I tapped into the water system under the sink and ran a pipe up to the engine bay with a valve by the drivers seat. And put 6 misters in front of the radiator. Now when I come up to hills... I can kick on the water pump and open the valve... misters on the radiator. Haven't overheated to boiling since. But it does still get hot on longer hills. At the moment, I'm cleaning things with vinegar/water solution after the drive, but I've got a soft-water filter in the mail and I'll have soft water in the coach and available for my engine misters shortly.
So, what's next?
-Probably the refrigerator replacement (cause the wal-mart one is sitting on the floor of the shelf that wasn't designed to be weight bearing... cause the fridge that's supposed to be in there is mounted to the front wall of the cabinet.).
-Then an inverter. Considering the GoPower 2000 Watt inverter/charger. Since it'll work with the 50 amp service. Will replace a few things under the bed so there will be room for it. And it should have enough power to run everything in the coach off of our new batter bank.
-I've got all new pop-locks for the storage doors on the way.
-I'm hoping to get the couple of fiber glass things on the outside fixed next week.
-Then we will get it buffed, waxed, and new decals. Should look sweet.
-I need to do something with the engine too... but I'm not sure what at this point. I need more horse power I think for going up hills... I think that'd help the overheating issue. Considering a fuel injection upgrade. Considering an overdrive upgrade. I'll probably start a new thread here for discussion on what I should do to make this engine sing.
-I need to get the oil leak fixed. It's slow... but it's enough that I need to add a quart+ of oil every month. Hopeing it's the front main seal and it's an easy fix.
-I'd love to get the engine to a point where it could tow a small suv and not die... I feel like right now it'd die. So at the moment, the wife (and the kids... cause they like her better, lol) drive in our car separate from the RV on travel days. But with the severe lack of power on hills... adding a car to the mix wouldn't help.
I've got pictures of the floor.. I'll see if I can figure out how to attach them...
AHA! I figured out the pictures (I think...).
First couple of picture are of the new floor. And my wife helping pull floor up from under the couch (lol). Then there is the new entertainment system stuff.
The rest are just pics of the coach in cool places, my wonderful family, my new office chair (the one in front of the lake - #WheresYourOfficeChair)... and some random shots from our trip.
I did a similar TV arraignment. But I removed the original TV Box and saved the vinyl covering. Took wood and made a frame for the TV mount to attach too. This really opened up the windshield view when driving. And eliminated me banging my head on the darned thing! I used the vinyl to make a cover to finish the opening.
TV and Audio (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=29456.msg250264#msg250264)
Great photos of your crew! Close-up of the youngest is a keeper, for sure. Also, interesting to see the side view of your coach showing the tag axle. I guess I've never come across a photo of that particular GV chassis configuration, with a tag on a short wheelbase.
You've done a LOT of work so far. I don't know what your budget looks like, but if it was me and I wanted to improve the engine power situation, I would seriously consider upgrading the engine. Driving a under-powered, over-heating RV must be just plain miserable. If you want to stay with gasoline fueled, there are some excellent crate motors available these days, for pretty reasonable prices. In your case, I think something like the GM HT502 would work very well. Lots of low end torque - runs on "regular" pump gas. It should bolt right into your gasser chassis without any big hassles.
I think one of our members, earlier in this thread, suggested the possibility of swapping to a diesel engine. That would be another way to go.
The "engine swap" concept is simple, but of course the devil is in the details.
If you do think about going this route, do some research first. Prices on these engines can be pretty variable, depending on where you buy them, and who would do the swap. Anyway, just something to think about. Good luck with your project!
HT502 Big Block Crate Engine | Chevrolet Performance (http://www.chevrolet.com/performance/crate-engines/big-block-ht-502)
Chevrolet Performance 88890534 - HT502 Crate Engine - 406HP (https://sdparts.com/i-19928416-chevrolet-performance-88890534-ht502-crate-engine-406hp.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIlefRz7G71gIVjLbACh1xuwcaEAYYAyABEgI7HPD_BwE)
For the overheating, misters on the radiator is very practical solution for your situation. I wouldn't be afraid to install more if you need more cooling. You can tell if you are wasting water if it doesn't get a chance to evaporate when it exits the radiator. The soft water filter is a very good idea. Forgetting to turn the water off is a problem I have had. Amazon sells cheap 12 volts solenoid valves that you can replace the manual valve with and you can wire a big indicator light in parallel with the solenoid to help remember to turn it off.
Glad to see you are using the coach and having fun.
Thank's! We think she's cute.
We do love the look of our coach. Can't wait to get the decals and buffing done so she shines.
The overheating is miserable... but it should be fixable.
So I've researched the diesel swaps... and it seems like it'd be a ton of work since everything needs to be changed including wiring and dashboard and the generator. So it's 'spensive for a coach that won't recoup that value.
The engine upgrades on the other hand should be much better. I have been looking at replacing the engine with a crate engine like you suggested... but the engine in there only have 45K on it. So I feel like I should be able to do some upgrades to it as it sits to get the power I want/need out of it. Maybe no though. I don't know enough about engines to make a good decision there.
I think the overheating might be related to the electric fans not working properly... but I don't know how to test those yet. They work... since I can hear them kick on... but they don't seem do to so consistently. I think I'll start a new post just on that topic and start collecting ideas.
Not gonna lie... that's pretty brilliant. I think I'll do that when I'm up at my step-dad's house next time. He's got all the wood working gear. Would make it much nicer than my arrangement.
I thought it was pretty brilliant myself. :) And it seems to be working pretty well. Forgetting to turn off the water is a problem... lol. Does that mean you added the misters on yours?
For the misters and even the fans, you can buy a simple on off "snap disc" used in air conditioning. I put my snap discs on the radiator and wired fans through one, and mister solenoid through another one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5eUQkmTwwQ
These new did not heat up like you are reporting. But as you posted no numbers it's had to say.
What you think is heating up maybe normal? Not coolant loss although.
Crud in core? Flush radiator? Slipping water pump drive belt? Corroded water pump impeller? Defective sending gauge?
Bad dash gauge. Poor dash ground for gauge? Need new cap?
Timing too advanced? Distributor worn?
Hey
@Caflashbob - I started a new thread for the Overheating issue, since I don't want it to get lost in this renovation thread. Thanks so much for your help!
Overheating Help: FT GV with Chevy 454 on P-30 Chassis '87 (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=32301.0)
Hey All!
Been travleling with the fam and haven't posted much in the last few months... but we've gotten more accomplished on our renovations.
Let's see...
I made a few modifications to the bathroom for my middle daughter who was too short to turn on the lights or open the door.. and thus couldn't go to the bathroom on her own.... ever. Lol. So I fixed it:
- New switch in the bathroom for overhead light. Popped off the switch from the ThinLite and ran wire cover stuff along the ceiling and next to the door frame and put a wall mounted light switch at a height where everyone in the family could reach it.
- I also added a "Ball Spring" to the bottom of the door and cut out a little hole for it in the door frame, so when we are stopped I could put a coder pin in the main door latch so it's not used and just the little ball spring... which holds the door closed nicely while stationary... now my daughter doesn't have to be able to reach the door handle to open the potty door. She can just pull on it and it open... flip on the light and go potty. :)
Other mods:
- All interior lights are now LED. Just did LED conversion kits on all of the ThinLights. Replaced all bulbs with LED bulbs. Even the bulb in the Foretravel handle outside. Much nicer and MUCH brighter in the coach.
- Added in an original Foretravel side table that pulls up and out and has two leaves. Very nice for family dinners on those cold nights.
- ReDid the front TV box and made it level with the rest of the cabinets. Custom built a sound bar mount. Now our DVD player, Apple TV, Nintendo Switch, TV and Soundbar all look like they were meant to be there. All hidden wires. Install looks good... just need to match stain on the new cabinet door I made.
- We did finally decide to paint the wood paneling on the walls. It's a tan color that matches the floor well. High-Gloss. Looks really good. We also painted all of the little metal screen on our cabinets a metallic blue color (also from the floor)... really brings it all together. Just need to get the Roller shades to finish the look. And finish some more painting. Cabinets are staying wood.
- I finally found the Pressure Switch my Compressor needed at Grainger Industrial Supply and fixed that last night. So I can now adjust the Tag Axles on the road. Not sure why I'd do that at this point... but I'm sure I'll figure it out soon enough.
- Replaced the power steering pump... fixed the major source of my engine fluid leaks. Yay! Think I still have one more seal here to fix.
Overheating issue was resolved with a Fan Clutch (see other post listed above).
I'm running out of things to fix, upgrade, or renovate.
Only a few more on our list:
-Finish Painting,
-Roller Shades,
-Awning,
-Inverter/Solar,
-Buff, polish, and new stickers on outside,
-Still haven't figured out why generator doesn't produce power (but to be honest haven't looked much cause we don't ever really need it),
Maybe's (Cause we never use them):
-New Convection Oven/Microwave
-New dash radio
-Hose reels??
I'll put pics in a separate post... cause I still can't figure out how to add them on this screen.
Below you can see the new wall color, the new blue color on the metal grades in the cabinets, the new (old Foretravel) table, the new front TV cabinet modifications and a couple pics from our travels.
We've gotten to see Lake Havasu and the London bridge, several places along the Colorado river and in the desert. Went all around San Diego. Took our dog to a show where he got his first ribbon in Palm Springs.
We are in Vegas now and will be hitting up Grand Canyon, Sedona, Picacho Peak, Kartcher Caverns, Guadalupe National Park, And Carlsbad Caverns over the next two months.
Should be lots of fun. :)
Oh and I forgot to mention on the last post... I fixed the Fiberglass damage that we caused on our first day with the coach. That was much easier that I though it would be. :) The last pic shows it almost done. I need to take a pic now that it's completed. :)
And I replaced the ladder. On one of our trips in California, something hit the top of our original ladder and ripped off one of the sides on the top. It's all new now. Looks and works great. You can kind of see it on the last fiberglass repair pic.
I do not have a tag axle, but my understanding is that one of the reasons to lift it is to make tighter turns.
Trent
Tag axle should be down when running over the speed of about 5 mph. You lift them to enable a tight turn, such as backing up.
Don't believe 1986 grand villas had a lifting or unloading tag. Might be adjustable tag air bag pressure though.
Yeah. It doesn't lift. Just adjustable pressure.
Usually, more weight requires more pressure. How you would determine "how much" pressure...I don't know.
Best way is go to "cat" scale or similar, an put drive axle on one table and tag on another. Check axle capacities and adjust bag pressure till that axle is taking the proper proportion of the total rear weight.
@jcus - good to know. I was reading about the axle capacities in the manual and wondering how you'd even figure that out. Thanks!
Hello. We have just made our first MH purchase with an 86 FEG 454, 33' tag axle... i will attach a photo. Also about 40,000 miles on a well maintained coach. We found on ebay, flew to San Diego and from storage ( stupid idea really) drove it 1300 miles straight back home to Boulder CO... no overheating issues ... so sorry to hear about your constant heating problems. In fact.. our radiator back up reservoir was missing . Half of the bottle still in place but dried up and gone the rest... but good temps all the way back to boulder thru AZ mountains and NM near CO border. We hear the fans kick on with just little elevations changes but we tell ourselves its the " TURBO" and all is good... we some AC work , gen set tune up, some minor toilet leaks but all appliances have good clean bill of health. We have the original orange binder manual from FT but its seems worthless as its just a long book to read.. no pics... no diagrams.. very little detailed info.... we are very very virgin ... we will learn a lot.... hopefully not in the side of the road...
Even being stuck on the side of the road is not a total disaster - you have something to eat and drink, a roof over your head, and a bathroom!
@Chuck & Jeannie - it's true... we've been on the side of the road a few times... it's not bad if it's level. lol.
@Subsilked - Glad you haven't had any overheating issues. Ours seems to be all good now. Had a loose distributor cap that was causing lots of issues. I still think we will need a new radiator at some point... especially if we want to hit mountains. But the last several hundred miles it's been driving like a dream. Though... i do think one of my ac's just gave up the ghost. WE have been using it almost 24/7 for a year.
Also... be prepared to fix or replace all of the appliances... even the ones with a good bill of health. All of ours worked when we got the coach. But the coach is 30 years old... and with only 40K miles on it at the time.... it hadn't been used much. So... when things that old go from not being used to being used all the time... they start to show their age and fail. We had our microwave, water pump, water heater, refrigerator, propane alarm/solenoid shut off valve all fail over the last year. Replaced or rebuilt all fo them. Had a propane connection leak. And now our front ac isn't calling anymore. I recently replaced the fan and capacitor... which got us a few more weeks of life.... but it seems the compressor is bad... which means a new unit. Not too upset about that... cause I've wanted to replace them since I got it so I could hook up a digital thermostat (and the new one's are like 20% quieter).
AKA,
Sometimes these coaches just have low coolant levels and will overheat. The sight glass looks full, but the glass is stained green if it has not been removed and cleaned. I have heard, foretravels have a slight beep sound if coolant is low, although, there are many models with different options and most likely depends on year? I just rebuilt my entire aquahot unit for a fraction of the cost of sending it in. Who says you can't replace the copper pipe around the boiler? It was fun to learn about the system.
You're not gonna stop posting photos at that point, are you? We want to see the rest of the restoration job, from start to finish!
MORE PHOTOS!
WHAT CHUCK SAID! That's a big undertaking!
Chuck,
I will post more photos as soon as I can. I was not sure if anyone was interested in a project like this, however, if one can completely restore your aqua hot for under a grand, why not, right? It will most likely be this weekend when I get to the rest of the pictures. Here is a few more in the meantime, feel free to ask any questions.
One other thing, I simply made a stand to support one end from the ground, the other rested upon my truck, this way, I could wrap all the pipe without issue. Not very high tech I know, it worked great. I also changed the way the tubing ran in and out to make it more efficient if the unit ever needed removed again. I used shark bite connections where making replacing the pumps fast and easy. Make sure the those shark bite connections have the right heat rating. You see a picture of the mastic, that is tricky to work with, as it starts to set up, which is fast, then it can be cleaned up, until then it looks like lumps. I hope this adds some insight into this project. I marked all the connections, electric, water, and the pumps.
Cubesphere:
It would be very helpful (to future searches) if you would make this AquaHot project report a separate thread, and post all of your photos there. There will be a lot of owners interested in how you did it, what it cost, list of materials, problems encountered, etc.
THANKS!
Out of curiosity what size is the tubing? There was a previous replacement covered on the forum where they said the tubing was 1/4" and the pictures looked like it was larger, more like 1/2"
Craneman,
Good eye, it's half inch, with some of the connections being reduced. The OD is really 7/16 on the pipe I removed. I will do a write up in the future like Chuck suggested when I get time for those willing to take on something new. The unit has never worked so well.
Maybe title the post as "Aqua Hot rebuild" to make a search for it easy
It's already been done (2 years ago): Aqua hot Rebuild (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=28387.msg236355#msg236355)
But that's the one claiming 1/4" tubing. Maybe get a second rebuild showing the 1/2" tubing.