Foretravel Owners' Forum

Foretravel Motorhome Forums => Foretravel Tech Talk => Topic started by: Jimmyjnr on June 11, 2017, 07:45:12 pm

Title: Dash air
Post by: Jimmyjnr on June 11, 2017, 07:45:12 pm
Latest , latest issue is dash aircon quit , headed north to bend Oregon from Stockton CA via 99 to Sacramento then the 5 to bend.
If anyone has a recommendation for a reliable shop or mobile tech  I would appreciate it .
Thanks jim
Title: Re: Dash air
Post by: Jim Frerichs on June 11, 2017, 07:51:27 pm
Jimmy,

You might look to see if the engine belt has jumped off the A/C pulley. Next guess, you are low on freon.
Jim

2002 U320
Title: Re: Dash air
Post by: Jimmyjnr on June 11, 2017, 07:59:14 pm
Checked the belt and all looks good, I suspect low freon which suggests a slow leak somewhere.
Title: Re: Dash air
Post by: Old phart phred on June 11, 2017, 08:39:32 pm
Is the condenser fan coming on? You can jumper the pressure switch to get to test.
Title: Re: Dash air
Post by: morninghill on June 11, 2017, 08:46:24 pm
Dont know how far you are staying on 5 but if you get to Eugene, could try Oregon Motorcoach Center. They are a Foretravel service center, have been happy with work they have done. Have no experience with them on dash ac.
Title: Re: Dash air
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on June 11, 2017, 09:45:51 pm
X2 on Mike's recommendation for Oregon Motorcoach.  We had service done there twice in the past - happy results both times.  They honor the Motorcade Club 10% discount on parts and some labor charges, just like if you were at the factory in NAC.  Very nice shop.  They have 50A plus water hookups in the parking lot - free to customers if you stay overnight.

Call ahead, because they are very popular with all premium coach owners!  That's us hangin' out with the big boys.

Oregon Motorcoach Center | Premium RV Service | Eugene, OR. (http://www.oregonmotorcoachcenter.com)
Title: Re: Dash air
Post by: Old phart phred on June 11, 2017, 10:34:01 pm
Edit head pressure control/condenser fan control on most automotive systems is most likely a ref liquid temperature sensor down stream of the coil. Ref flows through the smaller line from the compressor thru the condenser coil. Condenser fan is on a fuse somewhere. Compressor has an electric clutch also on a fuse, wire to the clutch can be on the front or back of the pulley and can vibrate off. Slow loss of freon is a gradual change, but a ruptured hose is immediate.
Title: Re: Dash air
Post by: Barry & Cindy on June 12, 2017, 12:42:21 am
What does 'quit' mean?  Warm air, no air movement, air from wrong vent, etc.
Title: Re: Dash air
Post by: Jimmyjnr on June 12, 2017, 12:51:06 am
Air temp from dash vents is same temp as ambient outside air , switching to aircon does not reduce the air temperature from vents
Title: Re: Dash air
Post by: Barry & Cindy on June 12, 2017, 09:48:55 am
On our coach the refrigerant compressor has two in line pressure switches that open to turn off compressor's pulley clutch coil.  One is for high pressure and one is for low pressure.  Sometimes there is a single combined switch.  If a switch fails it can temporally bypassed by jumping the switch points to diagnosis them.
Others have pointed out other things to check.
Title: Re: Dash air
Post by: Jimmyjnr on June 12, 2017, 10:29:09 am
I can see two sensors in the lines coming out back of the compressor , is this the switches you refer to
Title: Re: Dash air
Post by: Jimmyjnr on June 12, 2017, 12:56:41 pm
Looks like pulley and clutch are operating,
Title: Re: Dash air
Post by: Jimmyjnr on June 18, 2017, 05:41:51 pm
Planning on hitting Oregon motor coach on return trip south
if anyone has recommendations in coeur d Alene ( week stop over ) or surrounding area , would love to hear it . Suddenly its awfully hot !!
Title: Re: Dash air
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on June 18, 2017, 06:05:39 pm
Crank up the generator and turn on the roof A/C.  It works better (IMO) than the dash A/C going down the road, and when you stop driving for the day, the whole coach is already nice and cool for the evening's activities.  8)
Title: Re: Dash air
Post by: John/Pat on June 18, 2017, 06:24:51 pm
I have had Byers International, Bern'd, MOT, and FT all try their hand at getting my A/C to blow cold air, and none of them was successful. But I can say I have spent close to 2 coach bucks for warm air. My next attempt will be to inject dye into system and look for the leak with UV light. Maybe I should dump the a/c and install another roof a/c and run all the a/c with generator. 3 a/c in a 34' non slide should cool her down.
Title: Re: Dash air
Post by: Michelle on June 18, 2017, 07:17:35 pm
Looks like pulley and clutch are operating,

IIRC ours (also 2003) first time (2009) was the clutch, fixed at FOT.  Second time (last November) was a switch or something on the condenser fan control.  Issac (then at OTM, now at Infinity) diagnosed and repaired. 
Title: Re: Dash air
Post by: lenspeiser on June 18, 2017, 08:05:44 pm
I'm really scared to jinx myself on this one. Had MOT look at our dash air two years ago. They got it to work for about 3-4 months. Next time they found a broken fitting. That lasted for over a year. Last fix was some freon and remounting our compressor. After that we had a problem of water leaking from the evaporator coils. Cleared drain tube and for two hundred miles it has been working great.

When it works it really does a pretty good job. I just hope it keeps working well.

Len
Title: Re: Dash air
Post by: Jimmyjnr on June 18, 2017, 08:22:35 pm
four years ago new compressor, three years ago new connections to compressor
Two years ago new something?? Valves
Each time it was also cost of evac and refill , really would like to find tech whom knows and cares about the work in hand .
Not just booking hours and doing the easy fix
Title: Re: Dash air
Post by: krush on June 18, 2017, 08:33:25 pm
Find my threads about the dash A/C. Mine blows nice and cold and it's all I use on the road. Unless it is a SUPER terrible hot day, it even keeps the humidity low enough to make the rear of the RV comfortable.
Title: Re: Dash air
Post by: Jimmyjnr on June 18, 2017, 09:22:40 pm
Is there a condenser/ dryer unit that I can check / service??
Sorry to sound so dim
Title: Re: Dash air
Post by: Jimmyjnr on June 18, 2017, 09:29:18 pm
Just checked the fan operation on the dash air radiator and it's running also
no " obvious " leaks .
Was hoping for an easy fix !
Title: Re: Dash air
Post by: Michelle on June 18, 2017, 09:32:08 pm
While it might not seem like you're making headway, you are - you're ruling out some of the things that could cause the problem.
Title: Re: Dash air
Post by: Jimmyjnr on June 18, 2017, 09:34:55 pm
Ha
Thanks Michelle, by the time I understand all the systems on this coach I will be ready for a newer more complex one !!
Title: Re: Dash air
Post by: Jimmyjnr on June 18, 2017, 09:39:22 pm
So the dash fan and door system is working, the compressor pulley is spinning and clutch is engaged, the fan on back of radiator is running, so that leads me back to loss of  refrigerant? 
Title: Re: Dash air
Post by: red tractor on June 18, 2017, 09:41:52 pm
It is pretty hard to diagnose the system without having gauges hooked up to see the pressures while it is running. You can get a set of gauges from Harbor Freight for about $50.00.
Title: Re: Dash air
Post by: craneman on June 18, 2017, 10:35:32 pm
So the dash fan and door system is working, the compressor pulley is spinning and clutch is engaged, the fan on back of radiator is running, so that leads me back to loss of  refrigerant?
If the clutch is engaged you wouldn't be low on refrigerant. Low pressure switch would cut the compressor off. As posted by Red Tractor get some gauges. Then post your numbers and maybe I can help. All of my motorhomes have always had good dash air. More BTU than roof airs. They didn't always work when I bought them but all were simple to repair.
Title: Re: Dash air
Post by: Jimmyjnr on June 18, 2017, 11:03:47 pm
Was just at harbor frieght today ?
May do a reverse loop tomorrow and get a set , any particular setup required?
Title: Re: Dash air
Post by: red tractor on June 19, 2017, 09:38:23 pm
Get a set for R134a then they will hook up to your fittings. The ones I got came in a plastic carrying case and have to be assembled but that is very easy and there are instructions included.
Title: Re: Dash air
Post by: jcus on June 19, 2017, 10:01:34 pm
Not so sure that the compressor running is a good indication of a proper change. My coach low pressure switch will declutch  at 10 psi suction pressure. It will depend on temps, but my best evap temp  is achieved with 30 to 45 psi on the suction side. At 10 psi had  very little cooling, but compressor was turning.
Title: Re: Dash air
Post by: craneman on June 19, 2017, 11:04:33 pm
Depending on ambient temp, my thermostat cuts the compressor off at 40 deg. at the register with 20 psi on the low side.
Title: Re: Dash air
Post by: Jimmyjnr on June 24, 2017, 08:23:29 pm
Ok gauges arrived today
Ambient temp 85f
Engine off
Low side 85psi
High side 80 maybe 85 it was hard to read
Engine running
Low side 5psi
High side 120psi
Campground is packed so I had to be quick , engine only ran few minutes and only at idle.
Just wanted to get a sense of the problem
Title: Re: Dash air
Post by: craneman on June 24, 2017, 08:30:47 pm
Add Freon with the dye-check and get the low side up to 20-25 psi. Just one can of Freon with dye and one just R-134a With the compressor off the pressures will always equalize.
Title: Re: Dash air
Post by: Jimmyjnr on June 24, 2017, 08:42:37 pm
So add freon with dye ( via gauges or direct into low pressure port ) ?
Going to assume engine and compressor running ?
Then 134a again via gauges or just straight into low port ?
Do I need glasses and light to see dye ?
Title: Re: Dash air
Post by: Travelin' Man (RIP) on June 24, 2017, 09:06:00 pm
You probably can't add a can of Freon through the gauges.  My gauges will only hook up to a 30lb bottle or something similar.
Yes you need a light and glasses to see the UV dye.
Title: Re: Dash air
Post by: Pamela & Mike on June 24, 2017, 10:02:45 pm
Using 1# cans you will need a Freon  can tap to go from can to center gauge hose. Available at any parts store or off the net.

Pamela & Mike
Title: Re: Dash air
Post by: krush on June 25, 2017, 09:12:25 pm
Add Freon with the dye-check and get the low side up to 20-25 psi. Just one can of Freon with dye and one just R-134a With the compressor off the pressures will always equalize.

Always watch the high side....it tells if it is overcharged or another issue.
Title: Re: Dash air
Post by: Jimmyjnr on July 01, 2017, 01:24:22 am
Got some dye and frown into system , at idle low side 20psi high side 180 psi .
Drove to CG  outside was around 90f and dash air was cool not cold !!
checked compressor and rear radiator and connections, no signs of leak .
Anyone know where front evaporator is located under dash and how to get to it ?
Title: Re: Dash air
Post by: craneman on July 01, 2017, 08:49:40 am
Here is its location to check for leaks.

dash air expansion valve (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=27441.msg224668#msg224668)
Title: Re: Dash air
Post by: Jimmyjnr on July 01, 2017, 09:35:10 am
Wow , have no idea how to get into dash , I know the curved section behind instruments just pops out but the flat top above slide out tray is a mystery.
I will further investigate when we stop tonight
Title: Re: Dash air
Post by: John Haygarth on July 01, 2017, 10:25:44 am
Jimmy, I think yours is same as our 2000 in so much as you first lit the curved top up then pull up on the centre one you mention.
if wrong, sorry.
johnH
Title: Re: Dash air
Post by: rbark on July 01, 2017, 11:09:45 am
John, you are right, the flat tops are held on by Velcro. Kinda hard to remove but they do come off.
Title: Re: Dash air
Post by: jcus on July 01, 2017, 11:16:51 am
My 2000 center dash is hinged at the front with brass bead latches at the back. [Similar to the curved piece] You might need both hands, as it is well seated.
Title: Re: Dash air
Post by: Jimmyjnr on July 04, 2017, 09:02:27 pm
Started removing dash trim to find dash evaporator, don't want to disassemble more than necessary.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated
Title: Re: Dash air
Post by: Jimmyjnr on July 04, 2017, 10:02:14 pm
Removed another section!
Title: Re: Dash air
Post by: wantabe on July 04, 2017, 10:26:44 pm
If it uses R 134-A refrigerant you can get do it your self kits at any auto or big box store to put in refrigerant, but it might leak out again if you don't find the leak. The cans of refrigerant run $5 to $10 depending on where you get them. Might take several.


Wantabe
Title: Re: Dash air
Post by: Jimmyjnr on July 05, 2017, 03:08:50 pm
Looks like I may have to open up the drivers footwell , can't see anyway in from top or passenger side !
If any of you guys can advice ??
Title: Re: Dash air
Post by: craneman on July 05, 2017, 04:44:07 pm
Jimmy,
I have a more expensive one of these, but this might save you a lot of time. If you have a leak at the evaporator this will find it at one of the registers at the dash. I had to resort to one of these to find the leak on my Grand Cherokee. If it doesn't find anything you don't have to remove any more dash parts.

AGPtek Refrigerant Halogen Freon Leak Detector CFC HFC HCFC Air Gas HVAC... (https://www.walmart.com/ip/AGPtek-Refrigerant-Halogen-Freon-Leak-Detector-CFC-HFC-HCFC-Air-Gas-HVAC-Tool/49913303?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=1284&adid=22222222227037482141&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=85311394130&wl4=pla-193229279810&wl5=9031146&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=112561964&wl11=online&wl12=49913303&wl13=&veh=sem)
Title: Re: Dash air
Post by: Jimmyjnr on July 06, 2017, 06:55:50 pm
That sounds like a plan, because digging further into the dash doesn't look like fun
Title: Re: Dash air
Post by: John Duld on July 07, 2017, 10:08:59 am
Jimmy,
When I changed my dash air blower motor I removed the center (front) of the dash so I could get in through the front.
Only a few screws on mine to get that off.
One required removing an air vent and using a long screw driver to get back to that screw. Yours is newer so you will probably have more wires to disconnect to get that center piece out of the way.
Title: Re: Dash air
Post by: Jimmyjnr on July 07, 2017, 12:54:25 pm
John
Not sure which center piece your referring to . Looking like evaporator is buried deep in dash near windshield
Title: Re: Dash air
Post by: John Duld on July 07, 2017, 02:40:01 pm
Jimmy,
To the right of the entrance steps is the panel over all the CB's and bus bars. It's the next panel then you have the open area for the drivers feet. That one in the middle.
The fan motor is actually all the way forward, just behind the front cap of the coach. If you remove the center panel (I think they refer to that as the dog house) you will gain a lot more access to the HVAC box.
Title: Re: Dash air
Post by: Jimmyjnr on July 07, 2017, 03:08:20 pm
Removed that panel but still looks to be buried
Title: Re: Dash air
Post by: John Duld on July 07, 2017, 03:17:50 pm
I can't tell from your picture. What is that panel to the right with the two air vents?
Your on the right track. Just keep peeling off a layer at a time. They sat that HVAC box on the floor then built the coach around it !
If it's in the way, remove it.
Title: Re: Dash air
Post by: craneman on July 07, 2017, 03:30:14 pm
Jimmy,
Your 2003 is different than earlier coaches such as my '99 You need someone with a later coach to get you to the expansion valve and evap. Or just wing it.
Title: Re: Dash air
Post by: Jimmyjnr on July 07, 2017, 03:51:48 pm
Going to use a sniffer tool ( once I get to Walmart) but wanted to get a look at unit to see if any dye leakage evident
Title: Re: Dash air
Post by: craneman on July 07, 2017, 04:05:00 pm
I believe you have to order it and do store pick-up. I have never seen it on the shelf in automotive.
Just checked, store pickup not an option, but free delivery is available.