If you have and run more than 1000K with Toyo M170 or M177 please tell me what you think. I had Toyo M154 before on my 94 U225 FT and was very very happy but cannot have M154 on my 03 FT GV 295.
I am leaning to get M170.
Thank you,
AL
Al, I have had the 170's on for almost 16 months and like them. No problems.
JohnH
I have the 177 really like them
I have the H rated M177's and like the very much.
John
I've used Toyo tires on my 270 for 16 years. You may wish to look at other sizes.
I recently re-tired with M144 and M144A. (M144, 295/80R for rear: M144A for front, 305/70R--provides steering clearance.) These are oversized tires. Limitations are 75 mph, and 120 psi (Alcoa wheel limit). I run at 115 psi, my home air compressor limit at 8,000 ft. This gives amazing axle capacity and safety margin.
I use "bean bags" for balance as my local tire dealer can not handle 22.5" tires on his machine. With 41.5" diameter tires on rear, my indicated speed is about 5% under actual according to GPS speedometer from phone. Running without a spare makes me overdo tires on a motorhome.
Overinflating any tire causes the tire to apply more pressure on the center of the tire than the edges. Duh.
Winter use and heavy rain may be where the lower traction shows.
And maybe some steering wander and ride quality loss.
Used to wet a white concrete area then drive through it at a slight arc to separate the front and rear tire tracks then as they dried out stop and examine the tracks.
Customers were always amazed that the edges showed different darkness than the middle as the track dried out.
Readjusting the tires pressure finally showed a even patch back then.
Some tires were designed to flex to keep the tire supple.
Glad yours works for you and your uses
Assume that should not be "1000K" which would be a million miles! Never had tires go that far. ^.^d
Hummm Lewis .... now you telling me :-( :-) I just saw your response (my bad) I ordered 6 170's and have an appointment on 7/29 ... I have to call and see if something can be done ... I like the wider 305 tire idea for front position .
Thank you for sharing this,
AL
Just put M177 295 75 LR H on the front like them so far, bout 300 miles or so.
Few weeks ago I purchased 6 new Toyo M170 tires. Took a six day trip, put on about 700 mil on to them. Very happy with them, for sure they ride much better than the 7 year old Continentals.
Thank you all for your input.
Got my M177's last year but just put 10K more on them to Alaska and back,no problems or feathering,our tire man used the
1lb. beads,and the beads did not plug up the valve stems.
I am thinking of replacing 4.5 year old Michelins (have a buyer) with Toyos and wonder what is the difference between Toyo M170 and Toyo M177 tires?
Toyo M177 M177 - Long Haul Steer Tire | Toyo Tires (https://www.toyotires.com/commercial/tire/pattern/m177-long-haul-steer-tire#Warranty)
Toyo M170 M170 - Regional and Urban Steer Tire | Toyo Tires (https://www.toyotires.com/commercial/tire/pattern/m170-regional-and-urban-steer-tire#Warranty)
For me and for our FT difference is nothing to write home about. M177 maybe a buck or two more, I forgot.
I chose M170 over M177 because of the 19/32″ tread depth
Not sure I understand-- though there is only 1/32" difference in what I read on their website. For RV tires, you want the tire with the LEAST tread depth. You will never wear out a tire on an RV.
Deeper tread= more squirm and slightly less MPG.
If you could find a tire with 16/32", that would be great.
I agree with Brett and I would select the M177 at 18/32" over the M170 at 19/32".
The other reason I would select M177 over the M170 is that the M177 is available in load range G or H, while the M170 is only available in load range H (no G).
I noticed that the Michelin XRV tire has tread depth 16/32 but is only available in 305/70R22.5, which is slightly smaller then a 275/80R22.5 (529 revs/mile verses 522).
Does any one know if a 305/70R22.5 will fit a U320 without excessive rubbing?
Tires.. I priced Toyo's. $3500 installed. I don't know if the are the M170 or M177. I'll find out though.
I asked about valve extenders for the inner dually, they said they don't do them on account of leaks. ?
My xtenders work fine as long as they are supported with the rubber support as the extension passes through the outside rim.
Check out the new Uniroyal RS20. Made by Michelin in the US. In Texas less than $400 each installed and balanced. H rated. Just put 1000 miles an them, seem fine.
The xza-3+ with there 19/32nds of tread depth does have a "squirm" if you are sensitive for this kind of stuff.
If I could find a tire place that could cut and true the tires down to 16/32nd's I would gladly pay them.
Need a commercial tire trueing dealer. Any leads?.
I can feel it. Just a learned thing.
Paid approx. $300.00/tire for Toyo M-177 H rated. Sealy, TX
John
I see you are from BC, and thus am saying when going south, if you go near Junction City, OR (10 miles from Eugene, OR) a good place to check and buy tires from is Junction City, OR Tire Shop - 222 W 1st Ave - Les Schwab Tire Center (https://www.lesschwab.com/store/or/junction-city/a40) They are next to the new Winnebago plant which when it was the Monaco and Country Coach plant, they supplied the tires. My go to person there has been Ken whom over the past 4 years I've bought two sets of 6, Toyo M154, 295/75R22.5 H rated tires. M154 - Long-Haul, Regional and Urban All-Position Tire | Toyo Tires (https://www.toyotires.com/commercial/tire/pattern/m154-long-haul-regional-and-urban-all-position-tire) I believe I would be happy with any of the 170 177 or 154 tires as I drive so little. Ken recommended the M154 H rated tire in that size to me over the M170 or M177 since it has the deeper tread 22/32. He states the deeper tread will give better water dispersion and better traction. Yes, there are many opinions out there, I trust Ken as he has dealt with so many diesel pusher tire installations.
We've had m177's for two years 4500 miles no issues.
Made in CHINA?#%^*
Trucker friend that has a 320 swears Toyos are tougher than Michelins and blow Goodyears away.
On that 115psi, is that front, rear or both? I'm running 95 rears and 100 front on our Toyo's 154's.
Brett, is it an actual fact that nobody has ever worn out a set of tires on an RV? My tires are about half worn at 50,000 miles with only tiny checking starting on the sidewalls. I have a brand new spare tire to compare tread depths with, which is how I came to the half worn figure. I do often see newer RVs than mine with much worse weather cracking on their tires and very little treadwear... Surely someone on this forum has worn out a set of tires on an RV, or am I gonna be the first one ever? ...I predict I have less than five years of tread life remaining at my current rate of travel. It's taken about five years for the tiny checking to develop in the sidewalls so I doubt they'll have bad weather cracking before they wear out. At my current rate I will lose about ten brand new trailer tires to belt / tread separations before I finally wear out my coach tires.
50% wear in 50,000 miles? What tires do you run?
Scott,
The Toyo's on our coach were on it when we bought it in April 2012 and 44k mls later the rears still have good tread left on them. The fronts were changed out 26k mls ago after a lazer alignment, I run them front and back at 95 lbs and when it's time for a change I'll put on some 275x80R's (Toyo's) rather than the 9R's. ^.^d
That is a BIG step up.
9R= 543 revolutions per mile
275/80R22.5= 515 revolutions per mile
And, if you have 6.75" wheels, the 275's will not fit.
This is timely discussion for me. I need to put tires on the 1999 U320 I am picking up Thanksgiving week at MOT. Dealer says he is having trouble getting Michelins in the size I need. He has Uniroyals in stock and can have the Toyo's in a day. The Toyo's are $2938 for 6 with just the front 2 balanced. Add $100 to balance all 6. Uniroyals were about $500 less.
I will have two pretty good Michelin 275-80-22.5 XZA 3' that will come off the front and 4 really old ones (2005) from the rear.
I may just keep the steer tires and replace the back 4 depending on how good the front two are. Because I can't get the same tire I don't want to mix up sizes and brands on the back.
Truck Tire Truing & Balancing | Garden Spot Frame and Alignment (http://gardenspotframe.com/frame-alignment/tire-truing-balancing/)
A google search brings up a number of places that do this. I'll bet it makes a major difference. Not to mention fuel savings, new tires use significantly more fuel, iirc, 7% compared to mid wear tires.
I would call Michelin direct and ask them about supply.
Michelin Tire Questions?
Call: 1-866-866-6605
Open 8am - 8pm EST, M - Sat.
8:30am - 4:30pm Sun. for chat only.
I was under the impression that the 275x80R was a fit on my 7.5" wheels, if not what would you suggest ???
I just mounted 295/75/ on my 7.5 . Rides well
275 should be fine.
Thanks Mike,
I thought that was the way to go, just needed a little positive reinforcement...lol
Mick
They will fit on the 7.5" wheels.
But, my caution was for the 6.75" wheels which were very common on 9R tires.
Measure your wheel wells and compare to the wheel well size thread. Aalso verify that the body is square on the chassis . I have only 1 in clearance de aired and about 1.6 with air.
My tires are 39.4 or so.
According to others, there are at least two sizes of wheel wells. 41.5 and 43 ish. Mine is 41.5 and a tight fit. but no rubs.
If you have enough clearance for 295/75's, that's what I would recommend. Most any truck tire shop would have that common size in stock in case one was needed while on the road and could be run at lower pressure with more capacity.
Otherwise, 265/75's are roughly the same diameter and about 1" wider.
Bob,
I have Michelin XZEs that came with my coach when I bought it. The previous owner put about 3,000 miles on them and I did the rest. They appear to be 100,000 mile tires based on my observed treadwear, which agrees with what I was told by truck drivers with these same tires. Strangely, the rear tires seem to be wearing slightly faster than the fronts, although the fronts have a little cupping along the outside edge from fighting strong crosswinds across the southwestern states. When I drive back east where there aren't strong crosswinds the cupping corrects itself. My coach's data plate says to set tire pressure at 90 psi on all six tires. I normally run them between 90-100 psi. The tires are rated for 110 psi. They are size 275/80R 22.5
It is not just the sidewall checking, the rubber dries out. It then separates, the flapping will heat up the tire, raising the pressure, and then, boom, if not just throwing off the tread. I've had a blowout, never want to again or hear of someone else. The day before the blowout I went to install 6 new tires on the rv I just bought, they were out of stock, driving approx. 100 miles to get the tires installed. The day before, checked tire pressure, jacked up the rv and had the tire store check the tread, 3/4 left, no tire checking, no splits in tread. The next day, boom. You are not wasting $$ to replace at 6-7 years. You might be wasting your life if you do not. Michelin in the past recommend dismounting and inspecting at 5 years. I've know several people that sell their tires at 3 years and buy new ones. I believe that is overkill. All 3 had experienced a blowout. If I had the $$ I'd do the same.
I've never heard of a commercial truck driver replacing a tire for any of these reasons. They all tell me to run them until they're worn out. Diesel mechanics tell me that too. The tire salesmen won't answer me when I ask them if my tires are okay... but an indie trucker standing there told me he'd take my tires if I didn't want them anymore... :)
Scott
Would you advise owners to keep their fiberglass engine fan blades (like the one that exploded on your unit) since they have been fine for 20 + years on the unit, they must be good indefinitely because they look good visually?
Just because an event hasn't occurred to you does not make the event any less real or likely, or create a new "best practice" The fact that your tires have't failed is interesting, but in a sample size of one does not prove that good tire management practices replace tires due to age.
I look forward to your posts, including posts regarding your tires, but having had a blow out and the $$ and inconvenience (not to mention possible safety impacts) 6-7 years on a set of tires is plenty for me, no matter how much tread is left on them.
I am not tying to pick an argument, just trying to reframe the conversation.
Tim Fiedler
Sure Start Soft Start (http://www.gen-pro.biz)
TCER Direct (http://www.tcerdirect.com) generator-gas-prod (http://www.generatorgasproducts.com) 630 240-9139
Gen-Pro
X2 on what Tim said. Trucks ware tires out from miles. Rvs rot them out from lack of use.
Replacing tires based solely on the age is, in my opinion, similar to buying "insurance". You are paying a "premium" (the cost of the new tires) to replace what look like perfectly good tires, in the hope that doing so will decrease your chances of having a catastrophic blowout at some future date. Is this a good use of your hard-earned cash? Depends...
If you don't replace the tires, and 100 miles down the road you have a blowout, you will wish you had spent the money.
If you don't replace the tires, and drive another 10 years without a blowout, then you will be glad you didn't waste the money.
If you do replace the tires, and 100 miles down the road you have a blowout, you will think it was a waste of money.
If you do replace the tires, and drive another 10 years without a blowout, then you will believe the money was well spent.
One scenario is no more or less likely than the other. Too many variables to calculate a predictable outcome.
In the end, it's all just a roll of the dice...
So...Do What Makes You Happy.
Nothing wrong with extending tire life, IF you inspect your tires often. Sidewall and tread area for weather and road damage, and of course inflation. Also if you are one of the folks that like roll on like thunder on the interstate, as opposed to running along 60-65 you might want to keep good front tires no older than 6 or do years old. Try taking your cell phone and take a picture of your old tire sidewall you will be suprised what you may see. DWMYFG
Being a RV tech, plus having been a RV service advisory, that coupled with my own RV experience (and race car trailer tires included) I would never forgive myself, if I had another tire come apart on the road. What I tell people is, it's not the blow out, or tire coming apart, it's the damage it does to the vehical.
When we bought our coach last year. It had perfect big dollar Michelin's all around. Fronts were 10 yrs rears were 8 yrs. No cracking. Never gave it a second thought buying new tires all around.
Tires don't normally wear out 1st, they date out. it's the glue
Cheap insurance
Cheers
Even if you don't care about yourself or your own coach, think of the guy you run off the road when you lose control, or the guy behind you who gets that "gator" in the windshield, or the motorcyclist that doesn't see it, and hits it, and dumps his bike. THIS, I can testify to.
Sorry to be so uncaring. I don't know how often to buy new trailer tires to keep them from killing someone. Can you please help me calculate this? Every time I drive across the country and back I lose at least one brand new trailer tire. How new do these tires have to be for safety? I lost the first brand new tire with about 3,000 miles on it. I drove from Maine to Arizona and it came apart. It was a few weeks old. I've lost a half dozen brand new tires since 2014... Maybe if I buy new tires every day or every 1000 miles we'll all be safe?
Scott,
If you are loosing that many trailer tires, one of two things is at work:
Poor quality tires.
And/or
They are overloaded.
My brother was having the blowout problem on his boat trailer tires (cross country with triple axle trailer with 32' motorsailer). New, quality 15" tires-- blew 2-3 per trip. I finally talked him into spending a couple of thousand dollars on 6 new 16" wheels and higher load range tires. He just round tripped from Texas to British Columbia with zero tire issues.
It's my understanding that some or all commercial trucks tires have anti ozone and cracking sidewall agents built into them during manufacture.
The agents are apparently released by the tires flexing during use.
Which obviously we do not do as much of
As none of these truck type tires were specifically made for rv's it would seem we have little way to judge a particular brand/model actual resistance to these issues.
My personal thoughts were to look at what Foretravel used OEM.
Second did any brands offer a mileage or age warranty of any kind?
Thirdly are there any design criteria that might add to my safety or easier driving?
Lastly what brands might be generally asked for by other owners enough for the rv industries parent organizations to arrange commercial account discounts.
Dry air or dry nitrogen use would seem required
Hopefully they're not 15" Goodyear Marathons... the Airstream forums are resplendent with stories about them... and major failures... This is the reason so many are going to 16"... But I understand the 6 to 7 year rule is a standard as MoHo tires rarely earn the 50K+mile wear on 'em. Most time sitting & a'waitin' for some action in the sun before giving up the ghost...
I use Nokia 15in auto tires on all of my car trailers. The "trailer" tires are crap.
We also went through several years of tire problems while running the Goodyear Marathons on our 29' travel trailer. Decided to switch to Cooper brand of trailer tires and never had an issue with them. These all were 15" 6 ply rated tires....
Putting Toyo M170 on my SOB, 295/75R-22.5.
M177 tire has what they call an "isolation groove" around the perimeter and the M170 does not.
Dealer says this groove is easily damaged by curbs taking a chunk out and he often gets folks coming back claiming a defective tire.
He strongly recommended to use the M170 almost identical tire to the 177 to avoid this one issue.
Will see how they work out, travel safe.
Regards,
My experience with goodyears, is if they lasted a year it was a good year. but the last set I owned, we're $250 each gatorbacks in 1990.
Wyatt, I have had my issues (well documented) with Michelin, but I am curious about why you are getting rid of tires that are less than five years old.
This is the best argument I've seen for replacing old tires. I've seen too many incidents on freeways during my career.
Here is a good read:
RV Tires- how old will you go? - iRV2 Forums (http://www.irv2.com/forums/blogs/rvtireguy/rv-tires-how-old-will-you-go-199/)
Bridgestone, continental, Michelin say 10 years for legal reasons.
Dry air or nitrogen prevents cord belt rusting as does not using a water based grease when mounting and ozone protection and checking for cracking can make that a safe length of ownership.
No way I am telling you a safety protocol you feel is correct should not be done..
The earlier changeout time cannot be wrong. Just expensive
Regarding inflation pressures: In Oregon we have a lot of unmanned weigh stations that make it is easy to weigh each axle and side on my 97 U295. I've Toyo 154's H rated, however anyone with Toyo tires should find this chart useful. I'm running 115 in the front (approx correct for 12,000 lb front axle rating and current load) and 95 rear (min. recommended 19,000 lb axle) https://toyo-arhxo0vh6d1oh9i0c.stackpathdns.com/media/2155/2017_commercial_loadandinflation_tables.pdf
I also posted the following on a different reply "It is not just the sidewall checking or cracking, the rubber dries out. It then separates, the flapping will heat up the tire, raising the pressure, and then, boom, if not just throwing off the tread. Three years ago I had a blowout, never want to again or hear of someone else. The day before the blowout I went to install 6 new tires on the rv I just bought, they were out of stock, driving approx. 100 miles to get the tires installed. The day before, checked tire pressure, jacked up the rv and had the tire store check the tread, 3/4 left, no tire checking, no splits in tread. The next day, boom. You are not wasting $$ to replace at 6-7 years. You might be wasting your life if you do not. Michelin in the past recommend dismounting and inspecting at 5 years, replacing at 10. I now will not go over 7 yrs. I've know several people that sell their tires at 3 years and buy new ones. I believe that is overkill. All 3 had experienced a blowout. If I had the $$ I'd do the same."
Now it's my turn, again. Much sooner than expected.
I've had it with Michelin.
Three years ago, I replaced all six tires with brand new (fresh date code) Michelins. Great ride and handling, zero tread wear.
But now they are checking. Badly. After just three years in Southern California.
I need to replace my tires, pronto. Anything but Michelin this time.
So I am re-reading all the tire threads on the forum, and will try and find a suitable tire with as good ride and handling as possible, probably not as good as Michelin, but safety is more important to me. My mechanic says he wouldn't feel safe driving my three year old Michelins very far at all.
Will likely go with Toyo, but will also look into other brands.
My mechanic says Michelin is the only brand in this size. What is the equivalent size to use from Toyo or other brands?
Michelin makes Uniroyal truck tires in 275 80R 22.5 also.
The diameter of the Michelin tire is the same as a Toyo 295 75R 22.5. The Toyo tire is 20 mm wider.
Hope this helps.
295/75r/22.5 work for me.
Have had Continental HSL2 Eco Plus 275/80 LRH steer/all position tires for two years. Pleased with the noise and ride.
Bob, We've had the same Continental tires on for six years with no troubles. Had a chunk come off the outer rib and was told that it was no problem. No checking, etc. Curious how steel belts rust. Aren't they enclosed in rubber on the inside of the tire, too? If they can rust from moisture on the inside wouldn't the moisture on the outside do the same thing. Maybe I'm the only one who drives in the rain or through puddles.
I put on eight Generals tires this year, I believe General is a division of Continental. I think the ride is great but have only had them on a short time so far. They gave me $ 600.00 for the old Michelins.
Yokohama seems to be popular with truckers, and manufactured in the USA, at a new plant in Mississippi.
When I get the coach back from my mechanic, I'll run it to a Michelin dealer to see if the 7 year warranty helps with my 3 old tires. Wish me luck. Mechanic says the cracks are troublesome, who knows what Michelin might say.
Had Toyos on my BMW 730 for many years and found them much better than the Michelins. I put them on coach 3 yrs ago and they look fine and ride well 170.s
JohnH
Have Toyo 170 since September with about 5K mil on them.
Had Toyo 154 on the previous FT when sold had about 10K on them.
Have Toyo Open country on our Wrangler & Toyo Nouir on or 4 door car.
Like Toyo ^.^d
What was on the coach before Toyo, how do they compare in ride, handling, steering?
Why did you choose 170 vs 177 Toyo Tires?
What size? Any issues with odometer or rubbing?
We had MOT replace the Michelins on our coach (chalking at 5-6 years old) with Toyos M154, 295/75R22.5 16 ply (H), steer all around. Put about 6K on them so far and have no complaints - handle very well, comfortable drive. Actually feel better ("tighter" steering) than the Michelins at the same pressure (105lbs front, 100lbs rear). Tires, mounted & balanced all around was about $2800. Quite a bit less than with same in Michelin.
I get my coach back today or tomorrow, so will soon see what Michelin has to say about the cracks. If that is not enough, my other mechanic says my Michelin tires on the MDX, also three years old, are badly cracking. He too is checking with Michelin to see what they might do under warranty.
As i said earlier, unless i get a good in-warranty deal from Michelin, I've had it with them. My RV mechanic is recommending Honkook.
The seven year/700k mile warranty on my Xza-3+'s is that they guarantee the inner casing will take three retreads though an authorized Michelin commercial retreader for up to 700k miles or seven years.
I may not be done with Michelin after all.
Tomorrow I'm getting a set of Michelins on the FMCA program. When the Michelin rep gets back after Christmas, he will look at my old tires and credit me as big an adjustment as he can.
I'm also taking the MDX to a Michelin dealer to see what they can do. The warranty claim is already started.
So youre buying all new michelins on the hope they may credit you something on the old ones?? Will they not credit you if you upgrade to a better brand? I wouldnt subject myself to further use of terrible michelins on the hope of possibly getting money back. Without a firm warranty agreement in place, id buy another brand and drive happy. I personally have had it with michelin ok product and gold price. I see all these crib death michelins taking out expensive fenders and such and would not take a chance.
I also dont buy the argument that FOT engineered the rv to one brand of tire. Yeah OK, as much as they engineered terrible self tapping bulkhead bolts and GV windshield structural support. Ive driven michelin, toyo and bridgestone on foretravels and been happy with them all. My current 9 year old bridgestones are working great and I fully trust they will continue to do so for a few more months when six new Toyo, Uniroyal, Bridgestone, or whatever I get will replace them.
Times change and the original unihomes were designed by cm fore and the engineering staff around the Xza-1 pilots. From cm fore's mouth at the oct 87 introduction of the unihomes I attended in person at Nac.
Am I incorrect that every new unihome and unicoach and the latest models all came with Michelin's on them?
Michelin's I understand are still the only tire made that in a severe failure that shreds the sidewall and the straight across steel cord belts bring the rim down upon the tread belt. No flip flop.
As the non overlapped steel carcass is a Michelin design original the other brands use a thicker sidewall construction to hold the rim up off the tread belt in a depressurization failure.
As far as I have read and I have looked at every competing tires web pages no one else offers the self centering side sizes that Michelin features or offers a three retread 7 year/700k mile warranty for the commercial recappers.
The new legal slightly loose wheel bearing requirements of .001 to .005 rotor play adds a small amount of dead spot in my steering that was not there with the same Xza-3+ set of tires adjusted illegally with a non legally defineable slight preload on the front wheel bearings.
Our 40' Coach now requires a bit more steering wheel edge movement to initiate steering changes.
Noticeable, at least I think, so that the tires self steer straight at 97/87 psi on "h" tires.
Was magical with preloaded bearings. Now just excellent.
The Michelin's seem to "dive in" after a certain amount of steering wheel turning in a corner then as you exit the self centering feels like it reasserts itself.
My Xza-2's sidewalls cracked after 10 and seven years life before these -3+'s.
Newer SOB tires may work as well and not crack and be less money but I am reluctant to not use the Michelin's as I am extremely picky on the driving characteristics of our coach.
To me I think I can feel the Michelin "feel" from the thinner side wall construction.
I had ride issues and a steering wander and tire noise on our 08 sc430 when we bought it last year.
Pulled near new pirellis p1's off the car with 5k miles on them and put Michelin pilot super sport top rated by consumer reports tires and fixed all the issues.
Having not driven our similar coach with different tires i obviously do not have a current comparison so all the other brands mentioned may well drive and survive a failure exactly as well as the Michelin's so whatever everyone feels good using is great.
The straight across steel cord belt design Michelin has used since the 50's "x" adds on the billboards in the USA coupled with the self centering sipes seem to work well. Plus they ride well and are quiet.
As Wolfe mentioned I wish I could find a place to cut 5/32nd's off the tires as the tread block "squirms" slightly.
Buying one set of tires that had faults after 3 years may be a fluke. Buying two sets of tires the same brand, doing the same thing after 3 years, would make me seriously think about changing brands.
Jim I agree, what if they drive better? If it cost me 10 cents a mile to drive noticeably better driving characteristic tires that's a fair deal for me.
Too many years in the biz. Driven hundreds of other brands and coaches.
NONE drive like a perfect unihome or unicoach. None.
Numb. Like a truck. No "feel"
If brought to the customers attention in a competitive market the finesse drivers bought a Foretravel. Sold 59 new and 41 used in 1988 out of my ca. store for the better power to weight ratio and the better drive and a longer lasting design
And every competitor looked better and brighter inside than a Marie Fore designed dark wood walls
Bob, I do pay extra and have Pilot Sports and P-Zero's on my daily drivers, but I am not sophisticated enough to tell the difference between Goodyear, Michelin or Yokohama's on my coaches. On my present coach, replaced $550 Michelins with $300 Uniroyals and ride and handling seem the same. But I do not expect a 20 ton coach to handle or ride like a sports car. I believe Michelin owns Uniroyal.
Glad for your feedback, thanks
Not a rich guy. Also not a price buyer.
Replacing older Michelin's with newer other brands may well and probably should feel similar.
Ah newer Michelin's had a totally different result.
Yesterday replaced my 7 year old Michelin XZA2 (all sidewall checking) with Toyo M144 295/80 22.5. The choice was not a result of financial consideration it was because over a year and a half ago tires started showing signs of cracking which fo me is unacceptable. Drove 83 miles home and ride and handling was the same as on the way to have the 8 Toyos installed.
Gary, was there a cost savings?
Jeff...tires were $434.82, dis/remount & balance $21.75 and with taxes and disposal fee I was out the door $3,988.50 for the eight tires. I'm one of those fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me guys so I never checked the FMCA pricing for Michelins but I would think they would be at least several hundred dollars more plus whatever they charge to mount and balance. In round numbers the savings most likely is around $1,600 to $1,800 so I guess over a 7 year period I'm saving about $200.00 a year.
If my tires had not cracked (I very satisfied with the ride and handling of the coach) I would have never considered changing brand even though I have read this problem is not uncommon and it has been occurring for years, sounds crazy but that's me. You would think knowing it is a problem Michelin would fix it !!! Never felt you come out on top when a product fails they prorate the cost of replacement. The aggravation and amount they give you to replace the item very seldom works to ones advantage. I have always kept the tires coveed and only used 303 protectant religiously which I'm sure would have to come up in discussion if a claim is made under warranty to plead your case for proration.
To make a comparison I had the steers inflated to 100 psi, drives 90 psi and the tags at 85 psi which is what I ran in the Michelins. On my trip home approximately 60 miles was at 60 to 65 mph and majority of the other miles was at 35 to 45 mph without any notice of ride and handling difference. I did have Centramatic's installed on the steers so I don't know if that factors in but I doubt it does because the most weight used on anyone tire to balance was 6 ounces and that was on only one drive rim.
Time will tell if I made the right decision, at least As of now I have given myself an early Christmas present $$$$ if they continue to handle as they have the first 83 miles, if not I have no one to blame but myself.
Everyone has an opinion on tires. Bottom line, most brands are just fine, kind of a matter of preference if you ask me. I have had the big M, BF Goodrich, and Goodyear and Bridgestone on my coaches and all were very satisfactory.
When I bought my 1990 U280, it was equipped with the M Pilot tires. They looked good and showed no checking, so I drove it home at highway speeds 200 miles. Later discovered that those tires were over 20 years old! I still have one of them mounted on a spare rim and it still looks good inside and out--- of course I wouldn't use it! They don't make tires like those any more.
Current coach has M steer tires and Goodyear rears. When they age out I will probably replace with Hankook.
I went ahead and replaced the weather checked Michelins with new Michelins under the FMCA program, cost for six was $3700. After the holidays I'll know how much warranty adjustment I get.
The tire dealer also sells Hankook. Sells a lot of them. He said I only wanted Michelin on my coach.
Thanks Gary, best to Jeanie and the pups!
Tom did you notice any difference in the driving experience with the newer Michelin model?
Not that I could tell in six miles, no freeway.
I'm thinking of Continentals using the FMCA tire program over Michelins next year. I've had good luck with Michelins in the past with no issues so far.
I want to stick with 275 tires over the Toyo 295s. FMCA Tire Program (https://www.fmca.com/fmca-tire-program.html)
A driving abservation: with the Xza-2's on the coach at 97 and 107 psi when the throttle was lifted the coach would slow in traffic enough over a distance to not need the service brakes very much.
With the Xza-3+'s the coach hardly slows on the exact same roads and conditions with the throttle off at 97/87 psi on "h" rated tires versus the 2'a were "g" rated.
Between the resonator and fan controller changes and the tires our mpg went up more than 1 mpg. Almost 2.
So I squandered the increase and now floor it up every grade and tow at a minimum of 70 and for the last 12,000 miles the average is 8.2 on the VPMS.
Had forgotten about the less rolling resistance. Very noticeable. New "x" M's mention 5% less rolling resistance than our Xza-3+'s.
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FWIW, here's what I bought. No complaints so far.
Michelin X Line Energy Z 275/80R22.5
The ultra-fuel efficient X Line Energy Z radial is Michelin's line haul steer tire guaranteeing excellent mileage and rolling resistance. Its patent-pending Dual Compound Tread delivers exceptional mileage with no compromise for fuel efficiency. Directional miniature sipes in the groove walls promote even wear throughout the life of the tire. The X Line Energy Z meets California's CARB requirements and is approved for use on EPA SmartWay certified equipment.
Features & Benefits
5% better rolling resistance than the XZA3+
20% more mileage guaranteed against leading competitor line haul steer tires
Miniature sipes directional to half life
Toyo M177 is a long-haul tire SmartWay (EPA mpg rating), not advertised for any other application on toyo website.
Toyo m170 is listed as regional and urban tire by toyo (and not SmartWay).
Toyo 157 is rated for steer on long-haul and regional. SmartWay rated.
Toyo 154 is listed as drive tire for long-haul, and all position for regional/urban. SmartWay rated.
People say the regional may have treads that self-eject rocks and debris better. I'd presume slightly stiffer/thicker sidewalls, too.
I'm not sure what model I will get, but I think it's pretty wise to avoid the m170 as it's only rated regional and urban. I really don't want an urban tire on my RV.