Anyone know what's up with Old Town Motorhomes? Been calling all week and nothing but voice mail. No response to emails either.
EDIT: I should have said couldn't get past their auto-attendant that answered the phone. Just a simple phone menu system problem apparently. I didn't leave any voice mails.
Maybe closed for the holiday week?
I know Lance Hays well , and spoke to him yesterday . He stated that each quarter the spread sheet shows increases . There has been some financial drain that is hurting from the past , and he is working hard to overcome it . He has a receptionist that missed a couple of days work . Lance also runs all over getting parts . So , that might be what's going on . I'll phone him and ask that question . I know he has a very loyal following with service . Bernd ----?? Hmm Brad Metzger
They seem to be alive and well from what I could see today. I was just in to visit them today to get an estimate on a brake job on my coach for when I come back through the area in Nov. I was over in the new MOT area, on OTM's side of the road, having my booth dinette re-upholstered. MOT (Trina & David) did an excellent job and was within the estimated cost and time quoted. I am searching for other vendors, besides Newell, who can do quality work on my coach. So far MOT has a gold star and we will see about OTM in Nov.
Guys,
Lets refrain from posting speculation or secondhand information here. We could easily ruin someone's small business. If you have FACTS, you are very welcome to post.
Thanks.
Brett
Moderator
Lance just emailed me. They are having some phone problems and apologized for not getting back to my email sooner. All is well. Let's all settle down.
Just got a PM from Lance:
Thanks, Brett. Truth is we are having some phone issues - some with the system - and some is just incompetence and we've tried to grow without adding too many people too quickly so some calls are getting missed. We always respond to voicemails, but we miss some calls for sure.
Thank you for getting things back on topic. Starting a business is tough and I appreciate you recognizing that.
Lance
I liked the attitude at OTM when we were there earlier this year. I'm looking forward to having them do some work in January or February. Need to figure out some sort of reasonable plan to get in as much as we can.
I've known Lance since he was an MOT newbie salesman in 2005. He's traveled in some circles with a shark or two, but the only guys I know in that town that are straighter shooters are Dave Robertson and Don Hay, and that's some rare company in my opinion. I would include Rudy, but he lives a bit farther south...
OTM had some problems with their phone system earlier. It seems that the automated attendant/call router went beserk and neither calls nor voicemails were getting through.
I can certainly sympathize with that issue as I don't think I've ever seen a phone system that was easy or logical to setup and maintain.
I talked with them this afternoon and got through without issue, so I'm guessing they either fixed or shot the automated system.
I'm having them replace all the airbags and a few other things between Christmas and New Years.
When we were there in May for bulkhead repair we bought them a couple dozen assorted donuts. Probably just on a sugar crash and couldn't get to the phone.
"I talked with them this afternoon and got through without issue, so I'm guessing they either fixed or shot the automated system." Don't have anything to shoot it with, but I do have a precision computer attitude adjuster. <grin>
I do know that Joey left to pursue other type of work.
So who's left to run the show?
Who's left to run the show--- It is Lance Hays . He is the one with the foresight , inspiration, the desire and ambition to do it in the first place . The good attitude there is Lance , start to finish . He is dealing with growing pains that all start up business's deal with . Hope things keep moving along for him . He has a young family and needs our support . Brad Metzger
Is Wayne still there??
When I was there in May, Wayne and Issac were the " heavy weights ".
In July Wayne and Adam installed our airbags.
We have an appointment for bulkhead repair with them next month. Anyone have experience with them for this issue?
The man who did this for Foretravel all these years is --Wayne--and that is who will do it at OTM as he is their ace tech . Glad he is there with all his skills . Got to keep folks like him in the NAC loop . ;D ;D ;D Brad Metzger
When I was there in May, I discussed bulkhead repair with Wayne. My buddy was at MOT getting that work done, and I was curious if OTM did that type of repair. Wayne basically told me he has done LOTS of these repairs and that they weren't as big a deal as some have made it seem. I would feel VERY comfortable having him make that repair for you. Let us know how it goes.
Totally agree with Brad on Wayne. When he was at FT; he did my front bulkhead, front end alignment, and tires. I would trust him to do anything on my FT.
It may depend the type of repair being undertaken. FOT and Xtreme both did normal bulkhead repairs of bolt types of procedure and they used different methods to accomplish it as I recall
If the typical repairs with bolts, I heard from a pro, I think was told that FOT left the replacing roloks with same?
If the repair is more extensive, as 26 owners now know, of the nature I reported a year ago requiring replacing tubing, it was a new process as far as I knew.
The costs reflect that complexity.
Wayne says a lot, but some have found his years of experience problematic for customers. Bulkhead is a serious repair often with each coach needing different solutions. Our best choice for this type of repair is a shop equipped for frame repairs, and only place in Nac is really equipped for this work.
Wayne is opinionated and can rub some people the wrong way, but he has been repairing all types of problems on all years and models of Foretravel for 30+ years. If I need help with my coach, it would not be an "expert" that has only worked on his own coach but feels qualified to tell everyone how to work on theirs. Wayne, in 30 years, probably has fixed exactly the same problem on the exactly same model coach as the one you may have. I may not like his attitude sometimes, but I do value what he tells me, and he has never steered me wrong.
Which shop in NAC is equipped for this?
Thanks,
Trent
The below quote says it well and truly. Each situation is different, but a consensus seems to have been building that to fix the issue for the long run, inspecting the condition of the metal frame in the affected area is necessary. This means opening up the area by cutting away some of the bottom skin, or if you are extremely lucky, peeling from the bulkhead joint forward until you no longer see signs of degraded metal (often 18" to 24", sometimes much more). I happen to agree with this philosophy, having come to it through painful experience. I feel like I am expert in certain aspects of the care and feeding of our coach, but I won't say that I am "qualified to tell everyone how to work on theirs." However, I have been contacted numerous time by folks who were facing the bulkhead 'monster under the bed' and in each case I just try to answer questions the best I can "
based on my experience", but I always say that it depends on the individuals life experience and how well they know what is within their capabilities to assess, plan. and execute the needed repairs. I have only fixed one bulkhead joint in my entire life, and with any luck, that will remain my grand total!
Don
Ditto what Don and Barry said.....and me too...it depends what is needed. Once you know that, then see who has the experience and tools, etc. to do that type of repair.
Until recently, when people spoke of "I need my bulkhead repaired" it seemed when I, an inexperienced owner, heard this, it did not mean tubing frame repairs but rather was simply working directly on the bulkhead joint, i.e. meaning new bolts or such.
Knowledgeable people on the forum and others said there were two ways to do that type of repair, in Nacogdoches FOT and Xtreme. They, I was told, used different good ways to pull the joint back together and fasten it.
Then entered what seems very recently what seemed a new discovery ---such damage that tubing repair is needed. If there is a frame shop in Nac, that knows FTs and how to do this, that could be an option. Maybe that is FOT? At least one other shop besides FOT, if FOT does framing repairs, has developed a process option and maybe others have too.
I as Don, and I know another, have simply tried to answer inquiries. My answers are/were based only on my having spent several coach bucks and monitoring our project and about five other jobs! That is not presented as expertise.
Unless the repair Wayne does has changed since his days at Foretravel (I do not know either way), he used huck bolts (think very large/strong rivet) to replace broken Rolocks. That is much easier to do, as you do not have to access the back of the box beam (drill through FG floor). BUT (bit BUT) that concentrates the force on a very small area in the center of what is likely already a structurally compromised box beam.
Particularly true when compared with the use of the "full height" steel washer that spread the load to both top and bottom profiles of the box beam.
Am sure you right Brett....I asked a tech at lunch few days back how or what difference was in Xtreme and FOT bolt replacement. Rolok was mentioned, as you explain, but there was something else too i heard few years ago beyond the bolts....wish i could remember that technical part about how they aligned or pulled the metal parts into place. This bulkhead topic became a big surprise to us. Been sensitive to it before we found our significant problem, in fact it even was inspected six months before by another shop as said ok....so I keep up with this latest way to identify and tube repairs.
Living here in Nac I enjoy having technical discussions with a variety of pros. Great resources . Too, problems beyond FTs. Unbelievable problem as rear axle fell on SOB, and how to manage that.
In trying to keep up, one question was windshields. One shop had stopped replacing them some time back. I wondered if that still the case. It was. So I could respond accurately to an inquiry.
Also a shop here is doing residential refrigerators and has begun that a couple of years ago, did an Amish type...I was asking latest status of that refrigerator. Friend curious.
Similar, what are you tech guys seeing as pro and con of different AC replacements....i figure that coming along one day for me. Friend went with Atwood, tech opinions?
Always learning....that learning curve Don Hay warned me of is not so steep now as when we began but still upward. Now am learning about the mini gen for his speedometer.
But when you and Richard last month began reviewing DD and Cats of older models it is like a new language, french maybe. Pretty but only understanding some words....need to hear more lessons to grasp more basics!
I thoroughly enjoy reading the Forum. While I have met only a very few of you I have come to think of you as knowledgeable and concerned people who have experienced many, and, across the full spectrum, probably all of the problems that come up with Foretravel Motor Coaches. I know pretty much which way a certain contributor is going to jump on a certain problem or question based on this lurking over the years. When the DW and I arrive at a park that requires us to back in I har her direct me rather than trust someone else. Basic reason is that she has a vested interest in getting us in safely. The same goes for the Forum, kind of. Unless "X" or "Y" or "Z" are willing cover any ill-effects caused by my taking their advice it is just that: a suggestion. Usually i am directed to the solution and that's fine but with no vested interest...
Love all you guys and will always continue to lurk and contribute but always take the advice with a grain of salt.
I scratch my head when I see all the talk on this "Bulkhead" issue and the various ways it has been repaired ( or supposed to have been).
Having met Don a few times and spent time with them I have first hand knowledge of his work and repair methods. One thing I can attest to is he is a "perfectionist in the first degree" and way more so than what is required to repair /replace the problem he is working on. That is Don, and to his credit he does not waver from this work ethic once ounce! So, having said that I would listen and learn from him because he does know about what he talks!
We could not afford his labour bill for a fix on our Coach's, but for sure it will never come apart again, that I know.
Having said all this I will return to the problem of the rusted frame and it's miriad of repairs.
For me there is only one way once you notice broken Rolocks and /or seperation at the Angle iron. Pull or cut that Filon skin and see how far the rust etc has travelled. Cut out all the effected metal and replace. Before joining new open ended tubing to original I would coat the new parts with protection before welding back to the old and definitly use an extra backing bar welded to the first tube that is bolted thru. 100% coverage of the rear of this tube so that bolts have a good base to hold and strength is transferred along the whole tube once bolted up. This repair is not complicated, just awkward and does need some skills for sure. As mentioned before any welding frame shop can do it but many would bawk at it because it is a Motor home and they may worry about many other issues arising and not want any possible headaches. Replacing the Filon and sealing up the job is important, and the materials used to do it should not be the regular items like silicon etc.
Don's article on his fix is to me a "must read" if you find yourself looking at having to do this repair so that you have the necessary information needed to be able to ask who ever is going to do yours about what they will do to fix it--not patch it up.
JohnH
Like Larry, I read or "lurk" on the Form a lot. Have bookmarked many posts and have come to know many members forte. We all came from professions other than working on our coaches. We have A/C professionals, electrical, computer gurus and the list goes on. I personally have benefited from posts on air bags, fuel lines, Aqua Hot and many other issues. Don's post on led tail lights I also copied. My opinion is to benefit from the members who have experienced the problem you are having.
Adam is not at Infinity. Issac Anderson is.
Thanks Juanita I removed other post. Thinking Issac who I have used multiple times and typed Adam.