Foretravel Owners' Forum

Foretravel Motorhome Forums => Foretravel Tech Talk => Topic started by: nitehawk on May 01, 2017, 10:09:29 am

Title: Breaking into the safe (split from Re: Mystery Key Switch - U320 Bedroom)
Post by: nitehawk on May 01, 2017, 10:09:29 am
Maybe a hidden wall safe full of gold bars a previous owner forgot about or couldn't access because of a blown fuse!! :))
Title: Re: Breaking into the safe (split from Re: Mystery Key Switch - U320 Bedroom)
Post by: Mark Duckworth on May 01, 2017, 12:53:19 pm
Speaking of gold bars, the safe is locked and the FOT service note says they do not have the combo, nor does the PO.  It's one of the 6-number electronic locks.  After 4 failed initial attempts, you get timed out and have to wait 10 minutes and then you get 2 more tries.  If I work at it full time 40 hours a week, I'll for sure have it open in 40 years.  ^.^d

Maybe some statistician can tell us the probabilities of hitting the combo early.

12           codes per hour
8           hrs per day
5           days per wk
480           tries per week
24960    tries per year
1,000,000 possible combinations
40.06    years

Mark
Title: Re: Breaking into the safe (split from Re: Mystery Key Switch - U320 Bedroom)
Post by: craneman on May 01, 2017, 12:56:33 pm
not as many possibilities as you think
6x6x6x6x6x6 46,656 git er done in 2 years
calculator - Google Search (https://www.google.com/search?num=20&safe=off&site=&source=hp&q=calculator&oq=calcu&gs_l=hp.1.0.0l2j0i131k1j0j0i131k1j0l5.1145.3383.0.6030.6.6.0.0.0.0.253.1033.0j4j2.6.0....0...1c.1.64.hp..0.5.778.0.ZH7leS74Rkc#spf=1)
Title: Re: Breaking into the safe (split from Re: Mystery Key Switch - U320 Bedroom)
Post by: Travelin' Man (RIP) on May 01, 2017, 01:03:58 pm
the safe is locked and the FOT service note says they do not have the combo, nor does the PO.

I found the combination to ours written on the information card that came with the safe, hidden away inside that big owner's
manuals tote.
Title: Re: Breaking into the safe (split from Re: Mystery Key Switch - U320 Bedroom)
Post by: Johnstons on May 01, 2017, 03:12:14 pm
If you find the answer to the safe let me know.  Same problem here and no luck with any avenue I've tried.
Title: Re: Breaking into the safe (split from Re: Mystery Key Switch - U320 Bedroom)
Post by: John Duld on May 01, 2017, 03:20:38 pm
Have you talked to a good locksmith?
Title: Re: Breaking into the safe (split from Re: Mystery Key Switch - U320 Bedroom)
Post by: wolfe10 on May 01, 2017, 03:47:40 pm
I am really surprised that Foretravel does not have that information in their records.  They generally do (and should) require proof of ownership before they disclose it.

Of course of a subsequent owner changed it ........

Assume you had your salesman check with the previous owner?
Title: Re: Breaking into the safe (split from Re: Mystery Key Switch - U320 Bedroom)
Post by: Johnstons on May 01, 2017, 04:20:25 pm
Tried everything

Would like a place to lock up Mr Springfield when he needs to stay in the coach. 

I suppose I will try to get the old safe out someday and replace it. . Haven't really looked at that.
Title: Re: Breaking into the safe (split from Re: Mystery Key Switch - U320 Bedroom)
Post by: Gary & Jeannie on May 01, 2017, 05:42:23 pm
When Keith at MOT did our PDI he told me to try 123456 to open the safe and it opened.  Said all safes initial combo from the factory are that and unless previous owner(s) changed it the safe will open as long as the battery is not dead. 
Title: Re: Breaking into the safe (split from Re: Mystery Key Switch - U320 Bedroom)
Post by: Mark Duckworth on May 02, 2017, 07:16:02 am
Tried 123456, no joy.

Yesterday called the original owner's phone listed in the coach's records.  Spoke with owner's daughter (owners deceased).  She gave me their anniversary date.  Also tried the owners birthdays (obituaries).  Then tried all 3 of those backwards. 

Nope.
Title: Re: Breaking into the safe (split from Re: Mystery Key Switch - U320 Bedroom)
Post by: Charlie G on May 02, 2017, 07:29:48 am
try all or part of their phone number ?
Title: Re: Breaking into the safe (split from Re: Mystery Key Switch - U320 Bedroom)
Post by: John Duld on May 02, 2017, 08:11:29 am
Check out this video on YouTube:

How to open a digital safe without any tools or keys IN 2 SECONDS! - YouTube (http://youtu.be/fjrTTlxWTIY)
Title: Re: Breaking into the safe (split from Re: Mystery Key Switch - U320 Bedroom)
Post by: craneman on May 02, 2017, 09:13:52 am
Will FT give you the make and model of the safe?
Title: Re: Breaking into the safe (split from Re: Mystery Key Switch - U320 Bedroom)
Post by: nitehawk on May 02, 2017, 09:45:39 am
And if you do find a combination that opens the safe just print it on the face of the safe so you never lose it again!! >:D  >:D
Seriously, add some odd numbers in the sequence that only you can relate to--such as your license plate number or your house number, or you and your spouse's anniversary. Make them the first, fourth, fifth, and last numbers the "irrelevant numbers" or any ones you choose.
Title: Re: Breaking into the safe (split from Re: Mystery Key Switch - U320 Bedroom)
Post by: kb0zke on May 02, 2017, 10:04:15 am
Our safe was unlocked when we got the coach. There are at least two combinations for it that I've found. We don't keep anything all that valuable in it, just stuff that we want out of the way. The safe is still unlocked and will remain that way as long as we own the coach. The next owners can do as they wish.
Title: Re: Breaking into the safe (split from Re: Mystery Key Switch - U320 Bedroom)
Post by: craneman on May 02, 2017, 10:18:07 am
 Ours was locked and the PO didn't know the combo. While reading all the records in the folders that came with the coach I found some numbers written on a folder. It was the combo.
Title: Re: Breaking into the safe (split from Re: Mystery Key Switch - U320 Bedroom)
Post by: nitehawk on May 02, 2017, 10:46:22 am
Our safe is still full of three year old Texas air!! :))
Title: Re: Breaking into the safe (split from Re: Mystery Key Switch - U320 Bedroom)
Post by: Texas Guy on May 02, 2017, 01:03:08 pm
Mine is full of all those nifty wrappers that come

around coach bucks when you first get them, but

no coach bucks left in there.

Carter-
Title: Re: Breaking into the safe (split from Re: Mystery Key Switch - U320 Bedroom)
Post by: Mike Leary (RIP) on May 02, 2017, 01:22:09 pm
I had called the PO about the safe combination; he had no clue, said he had never used it. Finally found it on one of Bretts log books. What a bummer when I opened it up, not a penny inside!
Title: Re: Breaking into the safe (split from Re: Mystery Key Switch - U320 Bedroom)
Post by: Travelin' Man (RIP) on May 02, 2017, 02:44:11 pm

Battery(s) good?
Title: Re: Breaking into the safe (split from Re: Mystery Key Switch - U320 Bedroom)
Post by: Mark Duckworth on May 02, 2017, 03:40:52 pm
I think so as the keyboard beeps with each input. 
Title: Re: Breaking into the safe (split from Re: Mystery Key Switch - U320 Bedroom)
Post by: Mark Duckworth on July 12, 2017, 03:05:57 pm
I tracked down the company that was formerly Defiant Safe Co.  They are still at the same address and using Google Maps street view I was able to read the name of the new entity on the front of the building!  Spoke with customer service about the combo for our safe.  After some forms and identity verification, they looked up the original combo in their old paper records.  They told me that the original owners had the OEM mechanical lock replaced with the electronic keypad that's now installed.  However, both the mechanical and the electronic use a 6 digit code so they gave me the code to try. 

No joy!  The number didn't open the safe.

Bummer.
Title: Re: Breaking into the safe (split from Re: Mystery Key Switch - U320 Bedroom)
Post by: Tim Fiedler on July 12, 2017, 03:23:08 pm
Try 123456 or similar

Electronic safe keypads are default loaded with 123456 on gun safes Bummer!!!
Title: Re: Breaking into the safe (split from Re: Mystery Key Switch - U320 Bedroom)
Post by: Numbers on July 12, 2017, 03:23:38 pm
Bummer...

Did the safe company have any thoughts on ways to drill it open, have an override code, or at the very least some contact information for the owner who had the electronic keypad installed (since they probably changed the combination)?

Look on the bright side, you might open it and find Geraldo's secret map to Al Capone's secret vault.

Chris
Title: Re: Breaking into the safe (split from Re: Mystery Key Switch - U320 Bedroom)
Post by: Tim Fiedler on July 12, 2017, 03:29:01 pm
Maybe ask FT to contact original owner? Perhaps Bev in motorcade could give it a try if she was amenable? Are you a motorcade member?
Title: Re: Breaking into the safe (split from Re: Mystery Key Switch - U320 Bedroom)
Post by: Mark Duckworth on July 12, 2017, 03:30:43 pm
Try 123456 or similar

Electronic safe keypads are default loaded with 123456 on gun safes Bummer!!!
Yep, tried that and a host of others too.
Title: Re: Breaking into the safe (split from Re: Mystery Key Switch - U320 Bedroom)
Post by: Twig on July 12, 2017, 03:33:06 pm
Factory safe locks come as 50-25-50 then are changed when installed. Give it a try.
Title: Re: Breaking into the safe (split from Re: Mystery Key Switch - U320 Bedroom)
Post by: Mark Duckworth on July 12, 2017, 03:35:07 pm
Maybe ask FT to contact original owner? Perhaps Bev in motorcade could give it a try if she was amenable? Are you a motorcade member?
Sad story....  the original owners were from Las Vegas.  In 2014, after approx. 50 years of marriage, the DW original owner passed away and 5 days later the DH passed away from a broken heart!  I spoke with one of their daughters and got the story.  She and her siblings had no idea what mom and dad had chosen for the combo.  I was able to try the owner's birth dates and wedding date (from obituary).  Daughter wasn't interested in sharing her and her siblings birth dates.  Can't say I blame her.

Title: Re: Breaking into the safe (split from Re: Mystery Key Switch - U320 Bedroom)
Post by: Mark Duckworth on July 12, 2017, 03:39:42 pm
Bummer...

Did the safe company have any thoughts on ways to drill it open, have an override code, or at the very least some contact information on the owner who had the electronic keypad installed (since they probably changed the combination)?

Look on the bright side, you might open it and find Geraldo's secret map to Al Capone's secret vault.

Chris
They didn't offer an override.  I'll call back now that I've tried the supplied code and see what they suggest as next steps.
Title: Re: Breaking into the safe (split from Re: Mystery Key Switch - U320 Bedroom)
Post by: Tim Fiedler on July 12, 2017, 03:40:54 pm
Sounds like locksmith in order. Guy who sold me gun safe said if I forgot combo on my digital safe and locked out, good locksmith could get it open, wouldn't be cheap however.
Doubt they left enough gold bars in safe to pay for Locksmith!!
Title: Re: Breaking into the safe (split from Re: Mystery Key Switch - U320 Bedroom)
Post by: Mark Duckworth on July 12, 2017, 03:44:22 pm
Sounds like locksmith in order. Guy who sold me gun safe said if I forgot combo on my digital safe and locked out, good locksmith could get it open, wouldn't be cheap however.
Doubt they left enough gold bars in safe to pay for Locksmith!!
I was hoping for diamonds.
Title: Re: Breaking into the safe (split from Re: Mystery Key Switch - U320 Bedroom)
Post by: Tim Fiedler on July 12, 2017, 03:47:53 pm
That dream is alive till you get it open!! Maybe they can refer you to local locksmith if no override available
Title: Re: Breaking into the safe (split from Re: Mystery Key Switch - U320 Bedroom)
Post by: Mark Duckworth on July 12, 2017, 03:48:50 pm
I think the next step might be to take it out of the wall and roll it around -- see if we can hear bullion bars and Rolex's tumbling inside.  I wonder if you can x-ray a safe to see it's empty?
Title: Re: Breaking into the safe (split from Re: Mystery Key Switch - U320 Bedroom)
Post by: Dick S on July 12, 2017, 05:59:51 pm
Mark,
Suggest you go ahead and replace the battery. Ours would not open recently, even the pressing the keys caused the beep. New battery solved the problem.
Apologize if you already did this. Confess I didn't read all of the posts.... ::)
Dick
Title: Re: Breaking into the safe (split from Re: Mystery Key Switch - U320 Bedroom)
Post by: lgshoup on July 12, 2017, 06:00:42 pm
No reason to open it after the rolling around causes the gold bars to break the Rolex's.
Title: Re: Breaking into the safe (split from Re: Mystery Key Switch - U320 Bedroom)
Post by: Mark Duckworth on July 12, 2017, 06:00:58 pm
Mark,
Suggest you go ahead and replace the battery. Ours would not open recently, even the pressing the keys caused the beep. New battery solved the problem.
Apologize if you already did this. Confess I didn't read all of the posts.... ::)
Dick
What a wonderful  suggestion.  Have not changed the battery. 
Title: Re: Breaking into the safe (split from Re: Mystery Key Switch - U320 Bedroom)
Post by: Ed on July 12, 2017, 09:17:48 pm
Mark, I removed the safe from the cabinet. On the back side is a plate that is spot welded on. Removed that plate and exposed cement. Drilled holes through the cement and the back metal wall, used a sawzalll to cut an opening that I could fit my hand through. Removed the screws that hold a cover over the door mechanism. Unscrewed the lock mechanism and opened the door. Bought a new keypad and lock for about $100.

Covered the hole with a piece of aluminum and self tapping screws from the inside. Mixed up a little cement, filled the hole, replaced the back plate.

Safe works like new.
Title: Re: Breaking into the safe (split from Re: Mystery Key Switch - U320 Bedroom)
Post by: Jim Frerichs on July 12, 2017, 11:32:11 pm
James Triana once told me the memory for the code will not be lost with a dead battery.  Yes try a new battery.
Jim

2002 U320
Title: Re: Breaking into the safe (split from Re: Mystery Key Switch - U320 Bedroom)
Post by: John S on July 13, 2017, 06:44:41 am
I think you will have to remove and replace the safe to get one that is working. I never used the safe in my last coach as it was too hard to get too.  In fact, I never opened it after seeing it was there so I do not even have the combo for it.
Title: Re: Breaking into the safe (split from Re: Mystery Key Switch - U320 Bedroom)
Post by: Mark Duckworth on July 13, 2017, 07:37:39 am
Mark, I removed the safe from the cabinet. On the back side is a plate that is spot welded on. Removed that plate and exposed cement. Drilled holes through the cement and the back metal wall, used a sawzalll to cut an opening that I could fit my hand through. Removed the screws that hold a cover over the door mechanism. Unscrewed the lock mechanism and opened the door. Bought a new keypad and lock for about $100.

Covered the hole with a piece of aluminum and self tapping screws from the inside. Mixed up a little cement, filled the hole, replaced the back plate.

Safe works like new.
Ed -- Here's a photo of my safe (with the new keypad installed by the original owner).  Does it look like the one you describe?
Title: Re: Breaking into the safe (split from Re: Mystery Key Switch - U320 Bedroom)
Post by: Mark Duckworth on July 13, 2017, 07:43:01 am
James Triana once told me the memory for the code will not be lost with a dead battery.  Yes try a new battery.
Jim

2002 U320
Jim, I'm going to replace the battery.  It's not dead as it each keyboard entry produces a single beep and at the end of a 6 digit entry it produces 3 beeps (incorrect code signal?).  It will accept 2 code entry attempts and then starts a timer of maybe 10 minutes before it accepts another entry. 

But if I'm understanding Dick's #39 reply a weak battery may not open the safe if the correct code is entered.  Dick, when your battery was low did the safe beep but not open or was there no beeping?
Title: Re: Breaking into the safe (split from Re: Mystery Key Switch - U320 Bedroom)
Post by: Ed on July 13, 2017, 09:22:01 am
Mark, that is exactly the same model I have.

A couple of things I learned...LG (LaGard), the manufacturer of the keypad, does not build in an override code.

The combination is actually stored in the locking mechanism - not the keypad. So both keypad and locking mechanism need to be replaced when the combination is not known.
Title: Re: Breaking into the safe (split from Re: Mystery Key Switch - U320 Bedroom)
Post by: Jim Frerichs on July 13, 2017, 05:45:33 pm
Mark,

I don't really remember with a dead a battery if it beeped with each entry or not. My thought is that is did not. Sorry I'm not more help.
But a new battery brought it back to life and it opened.
Jim

2002 U320
Title: Re: Breaking into the safe (split from Re: Mystery Key Switch - U320 Bedroom)
Post by: Mark Duckworth on July 18, 2017, 06:05:18 am
And we're inside the safe!  Ed explained in #39 above how to bust in through the rear of the safe.  When we set the safe on the workbench we could hear something rattling around inside.  Sounded heavy and substantial.  Very exciting.  :o

Cracked her open to find.....  a shelf!!  ::)

Title: Re: Breaking into the safe (split from Re: Mystery Key Switch - U320 Bedroom)
Post by: Mark Duckworth on July 18, 2017, 02:03:43 pm
Found instructions on how to reset the lock to factory default.  Did that and set our own combo.  Now in the process of repairing the damage done during my amateur safe cracking and hope to have it reinstalled tomorrow.

Resetting the La Gard 4200 (http://asecured.life/resetting-the-la-gard-4200-3801-3802-firmware/)

And:

How to reset combo on La Gard Lock (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOApuAKjOxM)
Title: Re: Breaking into the safe (split from Re: Mystery Key Switch - U320 Bedroom)
Post by: MAZ on July 18, 2017, 10:51:16 pm
Good job Mark. I have many years of working in the banking equipment industry with those locks. Atm's and such. Glad you were able to reset the combo.

Mark
Title: Re: Breaking into the safe (split from Re: Mystery Key Switch - U320 Bedroom)
Post by: Beowulf on July 18, 2017, 11:42:08 pm
Mark, you are one tenacious dude!
-Mike-
Title: Re: Breaking into the safe (split from Re: Mystery Key Switch - U320 Bedroom)
Post by: Old phart phred on July 18, 2017, 11:45:26 pm
And we're inside the safe!  Ed explained above how to bust in through the rear of the safe.  When we set the safe on the workbench we could hear something rattling around inside.  Sounded heavy and substantial.  Very exciting.  :o

Cracked her open to find.....  a shelf!!  ::)


Walnut shelf? Don't let the taxing authority find out!
Title: Re: Breaking into the safe (split from Re: Mystery Key Switch - U320 Bedroom)
Post by: Mark Duckworth on July 19, 2017, 04:37:43 am
Just for the future searches, here's contact info for the new company that was formerly Defiant Safe:

Rolland Safe & Lock Company, LLC
3140 Towerwood Drive
Dallas, TX 75234
Phone: 972.243.3711
Toll: 800.225.2984
Rolland (http://www.rollandsafeandlock.com)
Title: Re: Breaking into the safe (split from Re: Mystery Key Switch - U320 Bedroom)
Post by: FourTravelers on July 19, 2017, 04:44:39 am
I tracked down the company that was formerly Defiant Safe Co.  They are still at the same address and using Google Maps street view I was able to read the name of the new entity on the front of the building!  Spoke with customer service about the combo for our safe.  After some forms and identity verification, they looked up the original combo in their old paper records.  They told me that the original owners had the OEM mechanical lock replaced with the electronic keypad that's now installed.  However, both the mechanical and the electronic use a 6 digit code so they gave me the code to try. 

No joy!  The number didn't open the safe.

Bummer.

As you probably already know, FYI, our Defiant Safe is mechanical and only uses 4 numbers of which the last one is unimportant because if you get the first three right it stops on thee fourth.
I have several mechanical gun safes and none are six number combos.
Title: Re: Breaking into the safe (split from Re: Mystery Key Switch - U320 Bedroom)
Post by: John Duld on July 19, 2017, 07:57:19 am
Reply#5, go to a good locksmith.
There was a guy on TV in San Antonio a few weeks ago that would open that thing in a few minutes. When they know how they can open it as fast as you can with the combination.
Title: Re: Breaking into the safe (split from Re: Mystery Key Switch - U320 Bedroom)
Post by: Bill Chaplin on July 19, 2017, 08:29:52 am
"There was a guy on TV in San Antonio a few weeks ago that would open that thing in a few minutes. When they know how they can open it as fast as you can with the combination."    by John D


Locks, Safe's, etc  were invented to keep honest people honest, not to defer dishonest people !
Title: Re: Breaking into the safe (split from Re: Mystery Key Switch - U320 Bedroom)
Post by: Mike Leary (RIP) on July 19, 2017, 11:04:18 am
If I ever sell this coach, I'll put a note on the safe that says, "The money is in the Michelins, fridge, stove, roof air and furnaces."  ^.^d
Title: Re: Breaking into the safe (split from Re: Mystery Key Switch - U320 Bedroom)
Post by: nitehawk on July 20, 2017, 01:15:00 pm
Something strange here. I DIDN'T start this posting. I only participated. Mark started it because he couldn't get their safe open.