Now there is a propane leak in the welded area on my propane tank. Found by MOT.
Can these be drained and welded??
Dan, do not see why not after draining and opening the valve while doing the welding. I think I would also unscrew the fill valve and take it off (if you can) just so you have NO fuel in there even though showing empty. It is a pressure vessel which has been certified so make sure the person doing it is a neat welder and grind the old weld out a bit before doing.
John H
I would displace the residual propane with water before doing any welding on the tank, and have a CERTIFIED welder do the work.
Shouldn't the tank be tested and recertified as well if any welding is done on the tank itself?
did a quick Google on propane tank welding leak
Welding Propane Tanks [Be Carefull!!] | Hearth.com Forums Home (https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/welding-propane-tanks-be-carefull.69325/)
Welding a propane tank | Hearth.com Forums Home (https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/welding-a-propane-tank.52501/)
Something that should only be done by someone who knows what they are doing and understands the concerns. I would not take this to "Bubba's Welding, Bait, and Tackle Shop"
When I weld on diesel or gas tanks I put dry ice in them to displace the fumes and oxygen with CO2. Water prevents a good weld, the steam pushes the weld puddle out. Agree with above it needs someone who repairs tanks for a living.
Recertification.........yes.
I also like the idea of "Torching it off."
If welding, the tank should be water filled to displace all remaining propane, then drained and argon purged prior to welding. The argon prevents any chance of a fire and also ensures the molten metal on the backside of the weld is not exposed to oxygen which would allow it to oxidize. The molten penetration will solidify much better if you purge, giving you a much stronger and cleaner weld.
That said, even though I am a skilled tig welder with a lot of experience, I would probably look for a new tank before I tried to repair one. The risk of future failure elsewhere is a possibility if it has already had a failure and risking a propane tank explosion or failure/leak down the line is just not worth it! Any repair would require removal of the tank, so swapping would actually be easier than repairing.
MOT will not weld. Looking for used tank as many have been removed as many coaches have gone to all electric. Not sure what a new replacement tank would cost?
Dan- get a guarantee on the new tank that it is not leaking before it is installed. ^.^d
A new certified tank is about $650.00. Wow. For an expense not expected but then there seems to be no end to maintaining a motorhome. A trip to Nacogdoches always is more expensive than my estimate. The thing with MOT they are very good at what they do.
See if any businesses like this are in your area.
http://lpcylinder.com/
NAC = 1 Coach buck per day, give or take 25%
Tim Fiedler
Sure Start Soft Start (http://www.gen-pro.biz)
TCER Direct (http://www.tcerdirect.com) generator-gas-prod (http://www.generatorgasproducts.com) 630 240-9139
Gen-Pro
Tks Craneman called ur referral and they are not certified to repair leaks in welded areas. Good try though.
What size is your tank and where are you located - I may have a tank available at Oregon Motorcoach in a couple of weeks out of my U-320
Tim Fiedler
Sure Start Soft Start (http://www.gen-pro.biz)
TCER Direct (http://www.tcerdirect.com) generator-gas-prod (http://www.generatorgasproducts.com) 630 240-9139
Gen-Pro
Propane liquid changes to vapor at 70 degree making 515x the liquid to vapor and then 15 to 1 air mixture and ignition source and you have a bomb. 1gal propane leaking changes into vapor is 515gals of vapor. Caution whenever dealing with propane.
Where did they hide this law? As an Operating Engineer heavy equipment mechanic working the trade, we welded at least one fuel tank a week on bulldozers and scrapers. To think that you would have to shut down a $1,000,000.00 piece of equipment and wait for a $5,000.00 fuel tank to be delivered and change out is ridicules. We stick welded with 7018 and only lowered the fuel level below the damage. Threw in dry ice waited 5 min. tested with an oxyacetylene torch, never had a burp by the way and then welded.
Same on marine vessels, Capt hit the dock too hard and broke a seam on a 8000 gal diesel day tank. Lowered level to below crack and pumped in inert gas through vent. Used explosimeter with remote probe to monitor lower explosive or flammable limit inside the tank. and welded up crack. USCG approved method.
Jim C.
I think the law says PRESSURE vessel, meaning fuel under pressure, LP, Natural gas, Hydrogen, etc.
TOM
http://www.nationalboard.org/index.aspx?pageID=164&ID=440
Details repair of 27000 gal LNG railway car tanks that run at 300 psi. If you ever worked in a oil refinery, you would find literally thousands of tanks and miles of pressurized piping containing flammable substances. Gas would be $50 a gallon if the oil company had to replace every tank that needed repairs by welding.
Appears the company who makes propane tanks for Foretravel made all sizes and shapes. Mine in the 02 is a weird shape. Looks plain to me. May have to build a tank . $$$$
Like Tim and others tanks have been removed to make room for batteries. Check at the mod centers for one.
Eric @MOT indicates that he is working on finding a 30 gal tank . Don't know cost yet. Only need propane for furnaces as hot water heater can be ran on electric. Coach is a 295 . Also on schedule to recover sofa. $$$ again
Ask him if my tank will fit from my coach, coming out in a week
The key word is "pressure vessel-Flammable"
A diesel /kerosene/gasoline tank is not under pressure is it?
You can get a certified welder to replace mounting brackets, but not weld cracks in the tank its self.
The propane tanks used in RV's (permanent mount, not portable) have to be labeled & certified as such, ie: motor fuel-permanent mount- DOT registered.
Nice to have a CFR number or Dot regulation reference to affirm this
Ups and FedEx have refused to ship a used tank. Roger gave his to UPS and they returned. He left on trip so he got his back. Does anyone have a tank, maybe ship motor freight. A new one is just too expensive.
LTL on a pallet?
Try Uship
uShip | The Online Shipping Marketplace (https://www.uship.com/)
Try Manchester Tank also
Manchester Tank: RV Products (http://www.mantank.com/products/rvproducts.htm)
The issue is that it is considered a pressure vessel "HAZMAT" load,so no air freight That's why the Fedex & UPS won't touch it.. flatbed open carrier is what's needed (or a FT owner that is going that way)
In the oilfield we have what are called "hotshots". They are (usually) independent owner/operators with a dually pickup and a flatbed trailer. They are on call 24/7, and they will haul anything, anywhere, any time...for the right price. Surely must be some service like that where Roger lives...
Hello where was Mr Rogers Tank coming from.
It was too bad it didn't work. The lonely tank is in Hastings, MN. Anyone near heading to TX?
It could have been absolutely empty and no one will touch it. You need to be a licensed hazardous cargo shipper and have all of the correct paper work and then find a carrier who is licensed to carry it. Argh! FedEx wouldn't touch it. Shipping hazardous cargo without declaration is definately illegal.
It is 20"diam and 24" long. Weighs about 50 lbs.
Try removing the valves. Then it is open and nothing in it and just a hunk of metal.
At that point it's an old water tank
Try phoning your local fork lift company for tanks, lift trucks use a variety of sizes and shaped tanks.
Put it in a water heater box and ship it.
I like Nancy's idea, may find one slightly shorter or slightly bigger diameter etc. May not match your original capacity, then evaluate your capacity needs. Not sure if fork truck tanks are DOT. Open your options and save some green.
being that they are for motorfuel, I think that they are DOT approved
Forklift yanks are completely different. They feed liquid propane to a convertor regulator where it is turned into a gas. Will not work.
Dan, feel for your pain.
Somethings to consider (also posting info for others to reference):
- Anyone on Alaska trip that might be swing by, rent a U-Hual and bring it to you?
- Manchester Tank has an office in Dallas. They warranty their tanks for 3 years. They have a list of authorized service centers. Might want to contact them about repairs. They would be the most knowledgeable and it's in your area.
- Lastly, Pippi has the FlameKing YSN293 DOT 30 Gal tank for $363. Flame King YSN293 Horizontal ASME Tank, 29.3-Gallon (http://www.pippenings.com/rv-supplies/product/flame-king-ysn293-horizontal-asme-tank-29-3-gallon/)
- Amazon has it also for $500 delivered in 3 Days with Amazon prime. Amazon.com : Flame King YSN293 Horizontal ASME Tank, 29.3-Gallon : Patio,... (http://www.amazon.com/Flame-King-YSN293-Horizontal-29-3-Gallon/dp/B00I8IY6FQ/ref=pd_sbs_263_1?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B00I8IY6FQ&pd_rd_r=89D2Z8W3C54T8TRX5TC2&pd_rd_w=7wo8l&pd_rd_wg=QCPXS&psc=1&refRID=89D2Z8W3C54T8TRX5TC2. ) Be sure to use your Foreforum Amazon link... ^.^d
Texas pop. Called Manchester tanks sounds good so far they have a motorhome. Division.
Who needs what tank where ? This thread starts in the middle of a previous conversation I guess ?
Tks to Jerry and Julie for getting me in touch with Willy I have located a tank in Crandall, Texas. Going up Sat to get. Wow what an ordeal. Willy took one out of a 2000 320. He is going all electric. Will take to MOT for install. Tk u forum.
Another idea,find one of these oilfield rig welders,have him repair the tank and then have the weld x-rayed,plenty of places that
will x-a weld.They weld on and x-ray pipelines all the time and the welds hold up to 1200 psi.The hot-shots will haul anything.
50# propane tank in Corpus Christi Craigslist.
Same for mine if you want it. I think it is only 18 gal.
The 2000 320 tank would not fit. Must be no more 14 inches tall and wide. 60 inches deep. They must have made this tank for the 295 as the diesel tank is in the same compartment. Still looking and needing.
Appears there is no tank available. Tank mfg do no make this size anymore. MOT has found a solution. They can remove and install but can not repair or have repaired. So I will be picking up and looking for welder to the weld on the pin hole.
Internet said can be done by filling tank with water first. Only solution left. No one expects a pin hole to cause such an issue. Yea maybe light at end of the tunnel.
If water is present on the opposite side of the weld surface, there will be poor penetration. A good welder will use an inert gas I prefer dry ice. The CO2 pushes the oxygen out of the tank. Add a little water to make it gas faster.
I find it hard to believe you cant mount a slightly smaller one in the space. I know mine isnt the same as yours, but i do have about 10x more propane than I need. I think my tank holds like 70 gallons... i think 20 would be more than enough, even for our four day trip tailgating at the Bills stadium in a blizzard.
If you do proceed with welding, look for a welding school. There is one local to me that loves oddball jobs they can incorporate into classroom lessons. A pressure vessel that contains a flammable substance could surely make a good lesson on how to do it right.... the instructors at the local one know their stuff and always did good work.
Split and merged Dan's discussion from multiple topics into this one to keep the story together
Check with mantank.com they have ASME tanks for motorhomes.
I have had excellent luck with jb weld or the equivalent for steel.
No experience with its use on a propane tank
Everyone at MOT indicates JBWeld will not handle pressure over time. My first thought. Will keep u posted as to how this turns out.
There is a steel product. Internet search. Jb weld finally dissolves in gasoline.
Other products may not
While I am a big fan of JB Weld, I would not even consider using JB Weld on a propane tank.
Tank pressure can run over 200 PSI.
I'm curious - the replacement new tank was about $650, wasn't it? I don't know how much is being quoted as the price for a repair welding, but $650 seems a small investment for a new, nown-good, SAFE propane tank...
I am not trying to be snarky. There are just some things (like safety) I just won't mess with...
Reply #48 they don't make the tank any more.
A competent welder can fix this without risk. I know one who does pipeline hot taps....welding tees onto high pressure in service pipelines. It's all in the procedure. He is paid well, per tap, and treated with respect.
Try these people
ASME RV Tanks - Worthington Industries (https://worthingtonindustries.com/Products/Propane-Cylinders/ASME-Motor-Fuel)
Thanks - I missed that (it was hard for me to follow the situation when it was in 4 separate topics ;) )
You got to be good, DAMN GOOD! A welder friend of mine was killed fooling with that stuff. :'(
True, without a doubt. Competence and knowledge is key. To strike an arc on this tank without proper prep and procedure could be disastrous.
I am not a certified welder, but this tank holds 175 psi. no leaks, stick welded 7018 rod. It is smaller but the procedure would be the same. Fill with water, remove water, add dry ice add, small amount of water, put weld area to the top with tank opened up wait 5 min. then with torch put flame at opening to make sure no gas present. This is done with all ports opened up. If gas was present it would not blow the tank up it would "bark" out the hole. The picture is in the post below.
This information is how I have welded gas tanks and diesel tanks. On the propane tank all I did was open it up overnight and put a torch near the opening then welded.
Good Sam Needs This Guy!! (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=31622.msg279619#msg279619)
No tanks available with fill and gauges on end. To build one is 6 to 7 weeks out and by the time available for install would be too expensive over $2000. Only need for furnaces. Just another reason to have aqua hot. Will keep u up dated should wrap up this next week. Found welder.
I don't know much, but my local propane distributor says NEVER weld a propane tank! The tank needs to be open to air for 6 months before any such repair should be attempted--- even then, he says it could not be re-certified. Buy a new or used tank.
Don't doubt that he's sincire but they build the tank by welding it together to begin with,like I said ona previuos post you can
get the tank X-rayed and hydro tested and go from there,the gas pipng across the country looks like a road map and these pipes
carry gas at 1200 psi and are welded all the time and then x-rayed on location.You can wash the tank out and not wait 6 months
to repair,what could possibly happen after 6 months to the metal in the tank?
Do the propane tanks in our coaches require periodic re-certification?
-Mike-
Not that I know of,had mine filled in Alaska,no problem.
Our ASME Tank Repair Services (http://tankfab.com/our-asme-tank-repair-services/)
Propane Tank Recertification - How to Check Your LP/Gas Tank (http://www.comparepropane.com/tank-recertification/)
Believe all Foretravels use ASME certified tanks and not DOT tanks. This company will make or repair ASME tanks. ASME tanks do not require recertification, DOT tanks do. DOT tanks are like the ones you buy at Home Depot.
If you need repairs on your tank like the op, you might call tankfab and ask if they know a local guy that can do it. It can be done.
A CYA statement, that his insurance company may require him to state to Joe blow. Facts go back to the fire/explosion triangle with a few exceptions. Fire triangle requires all three elements, fuel, oxygen, and an ignition source to be present in sufficient quantities. Eleminate one element and it doesn't progress. Tank can be purged, inert gas saturated to remove or minimize or dilute any oxygen pockets. After this is safe to weld because all fuel gases operate in a realitivly narrow oxygen to fuel ratio. To Rich, or too lean eqauls extremley poor combustion. Sometimes natural gas lines are "hot tapped" with gas flowing under pressure using a cutting torch to burn a hole in the "live" pipe after a O Let fitting is welded in place on the "live" line. Certified pressure vessel welder then stamps his code on the weld in your propane tank repair, Whether or not it requires any x-ray or any other inspection is doubtful.
Welder has filled with water and drained. Filled with argon gas. This is an inert gas.
Must sit overnight. Ready to weld today.
Dan - good deal, sounds like you found an experienced certified welder, and not your typical repair shop swapper. Sometimes you have to use the real professionals, and then you can appreciate their true value.