I have a 1996 U320 with a massive 175 pound (~44 gallon) liquid propane (LP) tank. I am currently draining it to fix a leak in the threads of the fill valve. This HUGE tank is really overkill for a U320 coach with only two appliances that run on LP. I have a two-burner cooktop and the fridge. The fridge is only run on LP while boondocking and traveling. The cooktop uses very little LP. The 320 has the Aqua-Hot (diesel) for hot water and the furnace which are the two biggest users of LP.
BUSINESS NEEDS:
1) LP Cooktop
2) Fridge (when not connected to shore power)
3) Small BBQ grill
4) LP fire pit
PROPOSAL:
Remove the large heavy LP tank and replace it with two 20# standard bottles. This makes the refill and service much easier, removes excessive weight, and adds more storage space.
Thoughts?
We did this for use when staying for a while where moving the coach was a pain. It allows me to keep the big tank tank full, just in case it's "gen-set time". The bottle will NOT run the gen set, but everything else! ^.^d
Remember the weight differential on the current tank vs two smaller 20#tanks. I am sure the designers considered the weight of a half full (that is usually the go to measured amount for calculations) tank and the location in the coach. Once that is moved that may change weight distribution on the axels. Then again maybe not. Just saying.....
But, the U320 has SUBSTANTIALLY reduced need for propane compared with the U240.
With the stove and refrigerator being the only LP appliances, the U320 has options in terms of propane needs other coaches do not. Particularly true of coaches with propane generators.
I do NOT know the laws/rules for frame mounted, vs loose tanks.
easy and great idea - only downside - Propane Refrig can use a lot of propane in extended boondocking - otherwise great idea
I have the same tank for 1 appliance - two burner cook stove - haven't filled in 6 years, still have 1/2 tank
Coming out and going induction, or downsizing like Roger did in a week
Tim Fiedler
Sure Start Soft Start (http://www.gen-pro.biz)
TCER Direct (http://www.tcerdirect.com) generator-gas-prod (http://www.generatorgasproducts.com) 630 240-9139
Gen-Pro
Nor do I, but loose tanks would freak me out, plus the hassle of changing them out when re-fill was needed. ^.^d Those tanks are HEAVY when re-filled!
Just to clarify, the tanks would not be loose and rolling around. They would be fastened. They would also need to be DOT approved. This setup is common in 5th wheels where the portable tanks are stored in one of the bays. This is also the same setup used by the GMC motorhomes in the 70's.
Obviously some details need to be worked out but I was seeking feedback on the plan.
Right now, I am trying to burn down the tank to replace the sealant. The tank registered "E" on the tank gauge five days ago! I have been using the fridge on gas and burning the cooktop since then and the LP just never ends!
FYI - The generator is also diesel and not LP.
It won't end. What I had to do was take the coach out in the boonies and open the bleeder. Even then, there was quite the "pop" when we loosened-up the valve!
Have had the Gmc and several slide in truck campers that had the 20# bottles in compartments. Came from the factory like that.
Works out good, if you do not want to move the coach, just take the bottle to Home Depot etc and swap it out. Tanks hold just under 5 gals of propane and weigh 20 lbs.
Understood. We have already taken it out to the boonies three times to get it from FULL to E. Hours and HOURS! Even if I keep the monster tank, I will never fill it more than 1/4 full. Maybe not even that!
Have two 30 # bottles and no big tank. We run the on demand water heater and the fridge when traveling or boon docking. Anchored in a holder just like on the front of a travel trailer tongue. A lot cheaper to have it filled then to trade in a 20 #.
Just to close this out, I kept the original LP tank. I had the leaking valve fixed while we were up in Pennsylvania in Amish country! They use lots of LP in that area and the shop (Nolts Propane) was VERY helpful and knowledgeable.
You do NOT have to take the unit to the boonines and release the LP. The shop was able to connect a portable tanks and empty the LP into them using a special hose. These tanks have a tube that goes to the bottom of the tank. They were able to remove the LP in liquid form in 15 minutes by transferring it to another tank! The 14 year old apprentices at the shop knew more about propane than anyone in West Virginia that I called!
I have several valves that were bad. The tank had two different stop valves that were bad. These valves are a safety feature that cut the LP if too much gas starts getting released.
I also had Nolts add quick release valves for a portable fireplace and a BBQ grill. I am happy with the new setup.
A couple of weeks ago I did a bleed down test on my LP system and I think my shut off valve will not turn the gas off.
I attached my manometer to a burner orifice and opened that burner and with tank on it came up to 11" WC. Then I turned off the tank valve and opened the other burners it dropped a little bit but came back up to 11" WC and I never could get it to drop down to 8"WC. So when I get the tank low this spring I will take it someplace and have the shutoff valve replace.
If you think thats a big tank, i have a tank for you! My 95 has a much larger tank. Ive only filled it once from empty and got 56 gallons in! The kid filling said it was the most propane he had ever filled into a single tank in his two years working at tractor supply.
If I didnt use my furnaces or external appliances (fire pit, grill, etc) it would probably last me ten years.
Good choice to keep the original tank. Its nice for boondocking and fire pits without ever worrying about running low!
They only fill propane tanks to 80% capacity.
When we had valve leaking problems, the mechanics refused to drain the remaining propane, sighting Fire Dept. regs. Thus the "drive to the boonies" to drain the remaining. The bottle transfer idea seems logical. ^.^d
Well this place (Nolts Propane) was in the middle of Pennsylvania farmland. They also seemed to REALLY know their stuff. The bottle transfer was impressive and really leaked almost nothing. I guess most tanks don't have the pipe/tub that runs to the bottom to drain it. That certainly seems safer than expelling 40+ gallons of LP into the air.
In 2000 I had a leak on my 1988 Grandvilla, FOT took it out in the back lot and hooked a propane hose to it ran 30ft away from the coachan attached to a pipe that had a blow torch attached on the end lite it up and burned of the propane. Pipe was up in the air
about 10ft. I think it burned most of the day to empty the tank. Reminded me of a oil field when they burn off gas.
Burning it off is great when it's not your money. Up here propane isn't exactly cheap. I put a hundred bucks in last fall and only went up a quarter on the gauge.
Do the DOT certified tanks like those in RV's have a tank test date certification requirement like most portable propane tanks (20# BBQ tanks) do?
Wantabe
You may remember I had a leak in seam of my l.p. tank. Why not use a hook up for outside cooking and use existing tank. To weld tank u must fill with an enert gas overnight.
I took out the 17 gal tank from my U320, replaced it with 4 6v L16 batteries (830 amp hrs) and an 11 lb removable LP tank. We have a spare tank as well. This is easy to remove and replace, easy to put it in the car and take it to get filled. All we are running on LP is the cooktop and our LP gas fire ring. An 11 lb tank will run the cook top for 4-6 months. About 3/4 lb per hour for the fire ring.
(https://s13.postimg.org/8h3tafm6f/413_BACA4-5_CFF-4455-_B5_BE-_E18_CFD572707.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
I had about 1/8 tank of LP in the OEM tank. I burned gas from it usimg a big cooker all day, never ran out. Trying to ship a used LP tank, empty or not, is almost impossible. I finally sold it to a local fellow.
I don't think it's a good idea.
You have to certify the portable tanks unlike the OEM tank. The dates will have to be visible or some propane dealers will not fill them.
Time and effort to remove and then make mounts/manifolding for the two new tanks. Don't think weight distribution either way would be a problem.
Will portable bottles satisfy all laws and provide crash resistance that the certified OEM tank does?
But the most important consideration to me is resale. No one interested in dry camping wants a RV with small tanks.
Buy propane by joining an association. Our propane only costs $0.89/gal in summer and is $1.79 now in winter with the latest fill.
Pierce
I thought it was a great idea for our purposes and needs.
New tanks are cerified for 10 years, recertification is a couple days and $15.
No changes to the OEM manifold or gas lines other than to the fitting that connected to the OEM tank to one that fits on the removable tanks.
It takes no more time to remove and replace the tanks than it does for you backyard grill. Maybe five minutes. Far less time than it takes to get the coach ready to move and go find a place to get it filled and then return.
My tank is mounted in a tank carrier designed for RVs that is bolted to the coach basement frame. Most TT have 2- 30 lb LP gas tanks sitting at the front of the TT. Much more exposed than mine.
$6-9 bucks to fill one of these tanks. Once every 2-3 months. Price is not an issue for the volume we use.
If I was worried about resale I never would have bought a coach. I think the possible resale market for my coach is orders of magnitude bigger among those who will use our coach the way we and most everyone we know does. I appreciate and respect the perspective of those who want to dry camp for extended periods but I do not think that group is a big part of the potential market. And LP in our case is not a limiting factor with a 4-6 month supply on hand, significant battery capacity, unlimited heat and hot water and sufficient solar to keep things charged. We can do two weeks easy w/o generator if we choose to. We run out of water and waste capacity before anything else.
For us, just like it is for you, we are trying to make our coach the best it can be for the way we use it now. I am pretty sure when it is time to move on there will be a ready and willing buyer to carry on as they see fit.
I wish I could get propane that cheap! If I could, every single vehicle I own would run on propane. What association do you belong to?
Krush, I had the same thought and Roger, that's 7.2 gal of lpg for almost nothing???
An 11 pound LP tank holds about 2.5 gal. Even at $3/gallon it is only $7.50 to fill an empty one. At most places you only pay for what they put in so there is no penalty for filling a partially full tank.
Tractor Supply per gallon here is $3.19
Propane Refill, By the Gallon at Tractor Supply Co. (https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/propane-refill-by-the-gallon)
Sorry Roger, I missed the 11 lb tank and thought you were talking about the 30 lb tanks in the previous sentence. Makes more sense now. The Cummins shop in Normal, IL was charging $2.05 per gal when I ha my two 30ers filled in October.
Many places have a set price for a certain size bottle and it makes no difference how much LPG is actually put in. Some, not all, but some charge the road fuel tax even though they know it is going to cook steaks or heat the RV. No standard nor laws.
Just FYI... I just came from Quartzsite last week. Propane was $2.10 a gallon. Diesel $3.01.
see ya
ken
My coach has a propane genset and a 300 lb tank, may come in handy when visiting the farm. Local town near the farm has a $10 a day city owned RV park with hook ups, by the lake. Honor system for fees, but then again until about 2007 you could eat lunch at Frannies, for a buck as there was only one food choice per day, tea or water, and you made your own change at the cash register based on honor. Frannie's - Yates Center, Kansas (http://www.kansastravel.org/frannies.htm)
Hey Roger
I like the idea of losing the huge propane tank and maybe adding battery capacity. Does anyone have a guess at what the empty propane tank in a 1996 270 would weigh ?? Thanks Bill
Bill, Here is my best guess for an empty LP tank weight for a 96 U270. 136 lbs.
Specs for a 1996 U270 say 270 lb of LP. A couple years later it says 42 gallons of LP. That is about 6.5 lbs per gallon.
The 2001 U320 had a 17 gal tank. That tank weighed between 50 and 60 lbs. 42/17 = 2.5. 55 x 2.5 = 136 lbs.
See
A Second House Battery Bank, Solar Panels, 2 New Inverters (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=31957.0)
Roger
Years ago, I discovered that 20# LP bottles, for home BBQ and such, fit inside a plastic milk crate. Keeps them from rolling around on the trip to fill and back.
Do what works for you. But I have a propane genset. Propane around here is hard to get on weekends and limited weekday hours, making a big tank a bonus when I do need to fill. To get a little extra storage space that you may or may not fill with equally heavy stuff may well fit your needs. Batteries wear out much faster than tanks and possibly a bigger PITA.