Title: 03 Fresh Water Tank Fill and Overflow
Post by: Mark Duckworth on August 14, 2017, 07:47:05 am
Post by: Mark Duckworth on August 14, 2017, 07:47:05 am
I've been searching and reading about filling the fresh water tank and what happens if it overflows. The posts are across such a wide variety of FT years and models that I don't seem to find the info I'm looking for. We have an 03 U320. It has a electric-solenoid controlled water fill valve. To add water to the tank, we connect our drinking water hose and turn on the tank fill switch. Unfortunately of all our tanks level sensors, the fresh water sensor is the one that isn't working. Thus we have no way of knowing how much water is in the tank. I can only hear the water entering the tank if I press my ear to the bathroom floor right above the tank. It's pretty well insulated I guess.
Our tank levels (propane, black, grey and fresh) are reported through a Silverleaf tank level module that then repeats the info to the Silverleaf dash display. The other tank's levels are displayed OK. The water level is alway blank. No data.
Questions:
1. Where do I start to troubleshoot the water level sensor issue? Do I remove the fiberglass panels in the utility bay?
2. What happens if the tank fills up and I don't turn off the fill valve? Does it stop automatically?
Thanks!
Our tank levels (propane, black, grey and fresh) are reported through a Silverleaf tank level module that then repeats the info to the Silverleaf dash display. The other tank's levels are displayed OK. The water level is alway blank. No data.
Questions:
1. Where do I start to troubleshoot the water level sensor issue? Do I remove the fiberglass panels in the utility bay?
2. What happens if the tank fills up and I don't turn off the fill valve? Does it stop automatically?
Thanks!
Title: Re: Fresh Water Tank Fill and Overflow
Post by: Travelin' Man (RIP) on August 14, 2017, 08:20:43 am
Post by: Travelin' Man (RIP) on August 14, 2017, 08:20:43 am
I too have an '03 and the overflow outlet is located outside the rear bulkhead, in front of the driver's side tires. I fill the freshwater tank until it overflows then hit the switch. It is having no more effect on the rear bulkhead than driving in the rain does.
Question #1.....................Yes, good place to start.
Question #2.....................No
Question #1.....................Yes, good place to start.
Question #2.....................No
Title: Re: Fresh Water Tank Fill and Overflow
Post by: Mark Duckworth on August 14, 2017, 08:22:28 am
Post by: Mark Duckworth on August 14, 2017, 08:22:28 am
I too have an '03 and the overflow is located outside the rear bulkhead, in front of the driver's side tires. I fill the freshwater tank until it overflows then hit the switch. It is having no more effect on the rear bulkhead than driving in the rain does.
Title: Re: Fresh Water Tank Fill and Overflow
Post by: Travelin' Man (RIP) on August 14, 2017, 08:25:23 am
Post by: Travelin' Man (RIP) on August 14, 2017, 08:25:23 am
OEM
Title: Re: Fresh Water Tank Fill and Overflow
Post by: Bill B on August 14, 2017, 08:44:05 am
Post by: Bill B on August 14, 2017, 08:44:05 am
Mark, for what it's worth, On my 03, I have never seen overflow. During fill I have low pressure at kitchen faucet and when good pressure returns, tank is full and I shut off fill switch. I can leave fill switch on for quite some time after tank monitor says full and good pressure returns with no visible overflow.
Title: Re: Fresh Water Tank Fill and Overflow
Post by: Michelle on August 14, 2017, 08:48:48 am
Post by: Michelle on August 14, 2017, 08:48:48 am
Our tank levels (propane, black, grey and fresh) are reported through a Silverleaf tank level module that then repeats the info to the Silverleaf dash display. The other tank's levels are displayed OK. The water level is alway blank. No data.
Questions:
1. Where do I start to troubleshoot the water level sensor issue? Do I remove the fiberglass panels in the utility bay?
Your fresh tank is *most likely* accessible curbside in the bay with the Manibloc. You should be able to see some of the tank as well.
Now, being Silverleaf, is this an aftermarket installation? Standard OEM was a Javalina/Audit with screw-in pressure transducers. If it uses the latter sensors, and since it isn't supported by Javalina AT ALL, you might want to look into a SeeLevel replacement system.
If the Javalina screw-in sensors, you'd have to get replacements from FOT and check the media section/Wiki for the instructions to recalibrate the water system (it involves emptying and filling all 3 tanks since you can't calibrate just one sensor).
If not the screw-in sensors, let us know what you find :)
Title: Re: Fresh Water Tank Fill and Overflow
Post by: Mark Duckworth on August 14, 2017, 08:50:03 am
Post by: Mark Duckworth on August 14, 2017, 08:50:03 am
Mark, for what it's worth, On my 03, I have never seen overflow. During fill I have low pressure at kitchen faucet and when good pressure returns, tank is full and I shut off fill switch. I can leave fill switch on for quite some time after tank monitor says full and good pressure returns with no visible overflow.
Title: Re: Fresh Water Tank Fill and Overflow
Post by: Mark Duckworth on August 14, 2017, 08:52:59 am
Post by: Mark Duckworth on August 14, 2017, 08:52:59 am
Now, being Silverleaf, is this an aftermarket installation? Standard OEM was a Javalina/Audit with screw-in pressure transducers. If it uses the latter sensors, and since it isn't supported by Javalina AT ALL, you might want to look into a SeeLevel replacement system.
Title: Re: Fresh Water Tank Fill and Overflow
Post by: Bill B on August 14, 2017, 09:00:29 am
Post by: Bill B on August 14, 2017, 09:00:29 am
Mark, I have only removed the panel covering the Mana-Blok. I have the pressure transducer type that Michelle mentioned. I have never seen the overflow tube but have never looked.
Title: Re: Fresh Water Tank Fill and Overflow
Post by: rbark on August 14, 2017, 09:09:04 am
Post by: rbark on August 14, 2017, 09:09:04 am
Mark, I have never had my tank overflow when filling either. I believe we have a high level shut off solenoid that closes the fill valve when full. I've taken the panel off the side of the water tank on the street side so I could have more space and also monitor water fill. There's been a few times I've forgotten about filling but have never had it overflow. The water level stays just below this thing with wires that is screwed into the vertical top side of the tank. I'll take a picture and post it later.
Title: Re: 03 Fresh Water Tank Fill and Overflow
Post by: Michelle on August 14, 2017, 09:26:35 am
Post by: Michelle on August 14, 2017, 09:26:35 am
I believe it was installed at the time of manufacture or sale. The Silverleaf appears on the original build sheet with serial numbers and on the window sticker as an option. I'll see what I can find for a sensor.
Just look in your Manabloc bay at the plumbing near the water pump/fill valve. If you see a hex-head screw in device (say, roughly 3/4" diameter) with a couple of wires coming out of it, that's the pressure transducer style sensor (lower left item in the photo below)
If you have these, one will be in this bay for fresh water, the black and grey will likely be behind the wall of the utility bay on the other side (PITA).
Title: Re: 03 Fresh Water Tank Fill and Overflow
Post by: Tom Lang on August 14, 2017, 09:42:24 am
Post by: Tom Lang on August 14, 2017, 09:42:24 am
My black tank always reads empty, and has for years. Does the transducer most likely need replacing or cleaning?
Title: Re: 03 Fresh Water Tank Fill and Overflow
Post by: jcus on August 14, 2017, 10:01:18 am
Post by: jcus on August 14, 2017, 10:01:18 am
Mine was clogged solid, needed screwdriver and pressure washer to clean it out, had bought new ones from FOT but did not need them. About $75 each. On my coach all three the same.
Title: Re: 03 Fresh Water Tank Fill and Overflow
Post by: Gayle McNeece on August 14, 2017, 11:11:02 am
Post by: Gayle McNeece on August 14, 2017, 11:11:02 am
Our 03's fresh water fill also stops automatically when the tank is full. We have reduced water pressure at the taps if we forget to turn off the fill, but that's the only thing. On our '96, we had to watch the fill level as it would not shut off automatically and would overflow.
Title: Re: 03 Fresh Water Tank Fill and Overflow
Post by: Travelin' Man (RIP) on August 14, 2017, 02:36:57 pm
Post by: Travelin' Man (RIP) on August 14, 2017, 02:36:57 pm
Maybe my auto-shutoff is kaput.
Title: Re: 03 Fresh Water Tank Fill and Overflow
Post by: TulsaTrent on August 14, 2017, 04:12:34 pm
Post by: TulsaTrent on August 14, 2017, 04:12:34 pm
On our '96, we had to watch the fill level as it would not shut off automatically and would overflow.
Trent
Title: Re: 03 Fresh Water Tank Fill and Overflow
Post by: rbark on August 14, 2017, 05:35:58 pm
Post by: rbark on August 14, 2017, 05:35:58 pm
Mark, here is what I believe to be to be the auto shut off solenoid. As I've said, have never had water overflowing out of the overflow hose that you can see in the picture.
Title: Re: 03 Fresh Water Tank Fill and Overflow
Post by: brrving on August 14, 2017, 06:37:21 pm
Post by: brrving on August 14, 2017, 06:37:21 pm
Mark,
The Silverleaf allows you to set when the fill will stop based on level and/or time.
Also, try reseting the Silverleaf. If one of my tank levels show no data, a reset usually corrects it. You can reset from the monitor panel . If you don't have a manual that shows how to navigate the monitor panel, a call to Silverleaf should help. I have called them a few times and they provide great support.
The Silverleaf allows you to set when the fill will stop based on level and/or time.
Also, try reseting the Silverleaf. If one of my tank levels show no data, a reset usually corrects it. You can reset from the monitor panel . If you don't have a manual that shows how to navigate the monitor panel, a call to Silverleaf should help. I have called them a few times and they provide great support.
Title: Re: 03 Fresh Water Tank Fill and Overflow
Post by: Tom Lang on August 14, 2017, 06:40:59 pm
Post by: Tom Lang on August 14, 2017, 06:40:59 pm
I believe overflow is only an issue with U295 and U270 models, having totally manual water fill systems.
Title: Re: 03 Fresh Water Tank Fill and Overflow
Post by: Barry & Cindy on August 14, 2017, 06:49:55 pm
Post by: Barry & Cindy on August 14, 2017, 06:49:55 pm
Fresh water tank is probably translucent and may be visible. We put a florescent lamp on top of tank (after removing top trim for access to tank) for a good view of water level. Most coaches have a top of rear bulkhead overflow. Just keep on filling to learn where water comes out. If you have this location, it is not desirable as it puts water on rear bulkhead, promoting rust. Many have relocated overflow hose.
Title: Re: 03 Fresh Water Tank Fill and Overflow
Post by: rbark on August 14, 2017, 07:04:41 pm
Post by: rbark on August 14, 2017, 07:04:41 pm
I can see the water level as it rises in the tank. It has always stopped at the bottom of that fitting that has the wires coming out which is also the bottom of the over flow hose in the picture.
Title: Re: 03 Fresh Water Tank Fill and Overflow
Post by: saddlesore on August 14, 2017, 07:24:29 pm
Post by: saddlesore on August 14, 2017, 07:24:29 pm
Same as our '02 320, I can hear the auto shutoff go clunk when it shuts off the fill. and the fill light on the auto fill switch in the bay goes out
Title: Re: 03 Fresh Water Tank Fill and Overflow
Post by: John Morales on August 14, 2017, 08:17:01 pm
Post by: John Morales on August 14, 2017, 08:17:01 pm
Where can I purchase the auto shut and install it on my coach. Does someone have the print and part numbers for everything.
Thanks, John
Thanks, John
Title: Re: 03 Fresh Water Tank Fill and Overflow
Post by: red tractor on August 14, 2017, 08:21:11 pm
Post by: red tractor on August 14, 2017, 08:21:11 pm
Our 03 also shut off when the tank was full I could see part of the fresh water tank on the manabloc side of the coach so could also visually see if the tank was full
Title: Re: 03 Fresh Water Tank Fill and Overflow
Post by: saddlesore on August 15, 2017, 12:16:31 am
Post by: saddlesore on August 15, 2017, 12:16:31 am
Our 03 also shut off when the tank was full I could see part of the fresh water tank on the manabloc side of the coach so could also visually see if the tank was full
Title: Re: 03 Fresh Water Tank Fill and Overflow
Post by: Mark Duckworth on August 15, 2017, 03:25:00 am
Post by: Mark Duckworth on August 15, 2017, 03:25:00 am
On our '2 320 I can see the fresh tank by looking over top of the reels in the power/sewer/water fill bay (street side)
Title: Re: 03 Fresh Water Tank Fill and Overflow
Post by: Mark Duckworth on August 15, 2017, 03:27:32 am
Post by: Mark Duckworth on August 15, 2017, 03:27:32 am
Same as our '02 320, I can hear the auto shutoff go clunk when it shuts off the fill. and the fill light on the auto fill switch in the bay goes out
Title: Re: 03 Fresh Water Tank Fill and Overflow
Post by: Mark Duckworth on August 15, 2017, 03:36:08 am
Post by: Mark Duckworth on August 15, 2017, 03:36:08 am
Mark,
The Silverleaf allows you to set when the fill will stop based on level and/or time.
Also, try reseting the Silverleaf. If one of my tank levels show no data, a reset usually corrects it. You can reset from the monitor panel . If you don't have a manual that shows how to navigate the monitor panel, a call to Silverleaf should help. I have called them a few times and they provide great support.
I'm not sure that our earlier model Silverleaf has the same options as the one on your '07. I was checking out the manuals on their website and I see the options you mention but that's on a newer model than ours.
Thanks for the tip!
Title: Re: 03 Fresh Water Tank Fill and Overflow
Post by: tothetrail on August 15, 2017, 10:49:21 am
Post by: tothetrail on August 15, 2017, 10:49:21 am
Unfortunately our coach has white gel coated panels completely enclosing that compartment. I'm going to pull those and see what lies behind them.
(http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=27646.0;attach=39385;image)
Title: Re: 03 Fresh Water Tank Fill and Overflow
Post by: Tom Lang on August 15, 2017, 12:52:48 pm
Post by: Tom Lang on August 15, 2017, 12:52:48 pm
Since I don't have that auto shut-off, I removed that upper gel-coated cover and replaced it with a clear lexan cover, half-painted white. Along with the See-Level update, this makes it very easy to find the upper water level.
(http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=27646.0;attach=39385;image)
Good idea. I want to do the same. I've always wondered what was behind that panel, and wanted to know there the overflow hose attached. Now I know.
I wonder if the U320 full sensor (float switch?) could be fitted to that plug next to the overflow???
Title: Re: 03 Fresh Water Tank Fill and Overflow
Post by: P. Wyatt Sabourin on August 15, 2017, 01:20:45 pm
Post by: P. Wyatt Sabourin on August 15, 2017, 01:20:45 pm
My 96 U320 does not have an auto shut off on the water fill and did have panels hiding things that I like to see. The black water tank drain valve was leaking because one of the four bolts have loosened off but I could not see it.
I removed all the beauty panels except the one on the driver side which seals around the end of the diesel tank to seal propane fumes to the passenger side. I now see the grey tank, black tank, water tank on the passenger side when I open the cargo door. On the driver side, I removed the panel covering the top of the water tank and half of the panel covering the grey and black tanks. I would have removed it all except that the 120AC electric receptacles, cable connector and switches are in the half panel I did not remove. This way I can check for leaks in the plumbing, tanks or water pump every time I open a cargo door. Yes it is not beautiful, but....
I also changed the water overflow/breather tube which spiders or mice could crawl into. The water tank overflow has a removable cap while the 1/4 inch tube breather exits in the bathroom overhead cabinet. I also installed clear tube up the side of the water tank which shows the water level in the tank.
I removed all the beauty panels except the one on the driver side which seals around the end of the diesel tank to seal propane fumes to the passenger side. I now see the grey tank, black tank, water tank on the passenger side when I open the cargo door. On the driver side, I removed the panel covering the top of the water tank and half of the panel covering the grey and black tanks. I would have removed it all except that the 120AC electric receptacles, cable connector and switches are in the half panel I did not remove. This way I can check for leaks in the plumbing, tanks or water pump every time I open a cargo door. Yes it is not beautiful, but....
I also changed the water overflow/breather tube which spiders or mice could crawl into. The water tank overflow has a removable cap while the 1/4 inch tube breather exits in the bathroom overhead cabinet. I also installed clear tube up the side of the water tank which shows the water level in the tank.
Title: Re: 03 Fresh Water Tank Fill and Overflow
Post by: Tom Lang on August 15, 2017, 01:30:42 pm
Post by: Tom Lang on August 15, 2017, 01:30:42 pm
All good ideas.
I'm happy with my U295 using a ball valve under the bathroom sink for fresh water fill. Just don't have a good way to know when to stop.
Waiting for overflow is not ideal.
My level sensors are way off. Using that display I stop filling way early.
I like the two ideas for visual clues, but what intrigues me the most is the thought of retrofitting a U320 float switch to an electric bell.
I'm happy with my U295 using a ball valve under the bathroom sink for fresh water fill. Just don't have a good way to know when to stop.
Waiting for overflow is not ideal.
My level sensors are way off. Using that display I stop filling way early.
I like the two ideas for visual clues, but what intrigues me the most is the thought of retrofitting a U320 float switch to an electric bell.
Title: Re: 03 Fresh Water Tank Fill and Overflow
Post by: tothetrail on August 15, 2017, 01:33:00 pm
Post by: tothetrail on August 15, 2017, 01:33:00 pm
I wonder if the U320 full sensor (float switch?) could be fitted to that plug next to the overflow???
Title: Re: 03 Fresh Water Tank Fill and Overflow
Post by: Barry & Cindy on August 15, 2017, 06:06:38 pm
Post by: Barry & Cindy on August 15, 2017, 06:06:38 pm
To add to Jennifer, we also removed the upper covers and left them off for good access at any time. We also removed all the other trims so we can be aware of leaks and also use the space for storage if we want. Removal also includes the carpeted panel over the water manifold. Nothing like being aware of problems before they become bigger. Much easier to run cables, too. We have a 12v florescent lamp sitting on top of fresh water tank that we turn on when filling or checking water level.
Title: Re: 03 Fresh Water Tank Fill and Overflow
Post by: Mark Duckworth on August 15, 2017, 07:52:41 pm
Post by: Mark Duckworth on August 15, 2017, 07:52:41 pm
With our shared concerns about rust, bulkheads, etc., I really like the idea of having the covers off.
Title: Re: 03 Fresh Water Tank Fill and Overflow
Post by: Mark Duckworth on August 17, 2017, 08:15:38 pm
Post by: Mark Duckworth on August 17, 2017, 08:15:38 pm
Checked out the Silverleaf system. There appears to be no raw data coming in from the fresh water tank sensor. Other tanks' sensors are working OK.
Removed the driver's side fresh water tank cover panel in the utility bay. Relocated the work light from the panel to the rear bulkhead wall. Hope to tackle the passenger side panels tomorrow.
Removed the driver's side fresh water tank cover panel in the utility bay. Relocated the work light from the panel to the rear bulkhead wall. Hope to tackle the passenger side panels tomorrow.