I see the new Foretravel on the Foretravel chassis is now on the Foretravel website.
Foretravel Motorcoach - 2018 Foretravel MicroVilla (http://foretravel.com/coach-view.php?id=756)
Airstream and all the others must be quaking in their boots. Not.
Nothing new here except the name.
$180,000 ?
That buys a lot of airline tickets, rental cars and a nice hotel room.
Can't imagine living in that coach, maybe 40 years ago but NOT now!
Just me but all of these class B or C touring sedans or whatever you want to call them at north of 150K is way out there. My dinner won't fit in a 3.1 cf fridge! 😎 I guess they have a place. I would think a nice class A in the 30-34 foot 200-250k or less range on a gas or front diesel chassis might be a deal for folks that want to down size! There are some out there but not much quality to them from what I've seen.
I liked it.
15 gallon black tank? Not gonna do much dry camping in that thing. No, thank you, not for us...
Expensive coaches on this chassis and MB AWD chassis seem to be very popular. Can't speak to the price point vs. competition but saw 3 of these at AM Solar at one time getting Solar, one with LI-ON batteries.
Hopefully FT did their market research on this so they can sell some units profitably.
This forum really does not (with a few notable exceptions) represent the target market as consumers of new coaches.
I think FT is in a box, without an easy way out. High material costs since they buy in small quantity. High labor cost per unit since they are a low volume producer with zero automation. No dealer network, so 98% of new RV buyers do not even know that FT exists.
So they need to find their niche were there is enough volume to yield a profitable business model, sold through the factory direct model, at a relatively high price point relative to similar competition.
I applaud their willingness to try new products in search of a sustainable business model.
I believe they are also working on a Prevost conversion (and have been for quite some time).
A strong, financially secure FT is in the best interest of everyone here on the forum, I hope that they find the way to that outcome.
I'm actually happy to see new products. Although we'll most likely never see what "we" want them to build (and probably couldn't afford in 2017), their continued survival gives at least a chance to have access to parts and people compared to shuttering the place.
$50K more than a PleasureWay Plateau (VERY nice B van) which has a 5 year warranty.
They're entering a crowded market with a very expensive product.
I don't like it. Doesn't look much like a motorhome. Too expensive for what you get. The bed can't be comfortable at all.
John M.
As feared, they are reaching price wise to try to make profit on a low volume hand built class B.
After all of them we've see; many different builders, it sure looks like Mercedes is the "platform winner." ^.^d
Here's a company with the same Sprinter class B market niche foretravel looks to be aiming at. Advanced RV.
Advanced-RV Experience - Advanced RV (https://advanced-rv.com/)
Dodge Promaster (Fiat) is coming on strong. A number of companies are also building wide-body B, B-plus, and C units on both these chassis. Look at both Dynamax and Winnnebago, this market is exploding.
This company (advanced RV) is definitely going for the upscale market! I looked at one that was available (random choice by clicking on a picture under gallery, available) and the listed price is $293,471! 1200AH of lithium batteries, 400+ watts of solar, 2 alternators... looks to be boondock capable for the short run anyway.
CRUZMOBILE - Ocean One Luxury RV For Sale - Advanced RV (http://advanced-rv.com/portfolio-item/cruzmobile/)
So maybe FOT's prices aren't that far out of line. Hard to judge unless you can do some detailed comparisons. The lithium batteries in the link above might add as much as $10k to price but it is about $120K above FOT's asking price.
Don
I think that it is way overpriced and not relevant to the market. This is a very crowded space and they Have zero name recognition in the space. I just finished looking at all the small options and number one was my Born Free and number two was the Unity. I would get either of these before a van and this is a touring sedan not a mini motorhome. I do not think you could keep enough drinks in that fridge for all the seats they have if they were all occupied with people. I would have thought a bigger closet and storage spaces and a bigger bathroom instead of those two passenger seats or at least the one on the drivers side as the passengers side is by the door. That is why many of the manufacturers put the kitchen on that side so they can have the other side for the bathroom and storage. I will watch and see how this sell but I think this is a very crowded space and there is nothing compelling on this to make me want to buy it. They should go after Born Free's niche and build a high quality class C that people can downsize into.
Looks like a fantastic way to tour the country going from resort to resort.
I did not see a generator
It has to have a generator to run that roof a/c.
They got the name right "micro". Seats 4, sleeps 4?? maybe. One burner stove and heat the pizza in the microwave. I do like the Sprinter chassis, but in a larger version. Many companies converting them.
Many high $ Sprinters have a LARGE 2ond alternator that substitutes for a generator. It also auto starts the engine which just idles. They also have Lithium battery banks with inverters more than capable of running the A/C for a few hours.
Edit
After having 2 Sprinter B's, and loving them. Got out due to lack of service facilities, I'd sure look at the Promaster before a Sprinter, yah, I know it's smaller. The Advanced RV units are top notch, one thing making them such is their use of components from Europe.
I'm not interested in anything that has the bed against the wall!
Hmmmmm......You know...Ummmm...... This would make for one hell of a toad.......... for short excursions or an overnighter or two. then return to your Foretavel "Mothership"......
It has a powertech generator hanging underneath way too low. That thing will be the first thing to be crunched. Also the exposed tank underneath at the rear looks terrible. I think it is designed as a traveling van for people who can afford it. Maybe a dingy vehicle for a Prevost. I do wish them all the best though.
Mark
This is quite a revelation to me. I bought my 2015 Winnebago Era on the Sprinter 3500 chassis after giving up my Foretravel when I became widowed. It is perfect for solo RVing with my dog. I bought the Era because it had a floor plan that answered many of the deterants mentioned here, seating for two, twin beds, larger fridge, manageable wet bath, functional galley. Many of the other conversions have higher quality finishes of the interior but the desirable floor plan of the Winnebago trumped the others. I, too, feel that Foretravel has produced a floor plan that will not appeal to those of us who are downsizing our RVing. They did pick a great chassis, however. As to the service on the Mercedes-Benz chassis, I have just learned that the old agreements with Freightliner for this are breaking down. I have found that in my area, the service on my chassis will be at my local Mercedes-Benz auto dealers service facility, rather than at Freightliner.
I am a little dismayed with the shortage of Foretravel logos on this new vehicle, especially on the upholstery. Has Ray's sister returned to the upholstery shop?
You are likely correct on the "traveling van" A friend of mine has the Dodge branded Mercedes Winnebago ERA. He simply uses it for long trips so that he can nap in it while en-route to his destination. He does not intend to actually use it as a "camper"
Three of us guys from our local photo club drove it on a desert wildflower trip in April. It did well and held all of our camera gear, Clothes and drinks. But as there were three guys. We stayed in hotels. Covered 7 states in 7 days and drove 3,400 miles and still managed to take 2,000 photos each. We drove like we were running from the law and managed to log 19MPG.
I am guessing this first one was an experiment and was spaced out by a customer to meet certain criteria. It fills a niche. It definitely isn't a vehicle for a full timer. It's almost enough for hauling my wife back and forth to the mountains from Houston. Currently we use our coach as a glorified limousine.
Exactly, Steve. I know people who want something just like this. However, they probably wouldn't want to spend this kind of money on it. I love the concept, however - for a long road-trip vehicle.
Perhaps they're trying to retain their market share by providing customers who might otherwise scale down to SOB from a Foretravel. There does seem to be a large portion of RV buyers straying away or scaling down from large class A coaches.
According to the specs the units has a Combined Cargo Capacity of 861 lbs. That's low.
The market for this is probably people who want a comfortable travel/limo vehicle for to get to summer homes, sporting events, tailgating, etc.
I think you're on to something. These "expensive per sq ft" vehicles are always in big demand at the RV Supershow in Tampa. Often the first to sell out of stock they bring. Not for me but apparently enough buyers to produce a growing market segment.
The opposite but equally in-understandable as the multi-million luxo Prevost busses from my point of view. Will look nice in the airconditioned pavilion at the Supershow next to the tricked out IH Foretravel brings.
REALLY low for a 3500 Sprinter Van, given a GVWR of 11,030. That 861 lbs will be reduced by any water in the holding tanks as well.
Something seems wrong with the UVW vs CCC, too. If you calculate the difference, it seems to indicate 3 occupants accounted for in the CCC. (GVWR-UVW=OCCC. OCCC-CCC = 449; 449/154= 2.91 people) Normally, the number of seatbelts is used to add up occupant weight and that deleted gets from OCCC to get CCC. In this case it looks like 6 (4 up front, 2 in back). An extra 462 lbs needs to be accounted for.
I can't figure out the capacity numbers given the posted GVWR, UVW, and CCC. They don't make sense.
The UVW should be the weight of the vehicle as built at the factory. No way that is 720 lbs.
Regarding the CCC of 861 lbs. Even for a luxury travel coach (not intended for camping) you need to allow for four occupants as well as full fresh water.
Full fresh water alone will be 141 pounds (17 gallons x 8.3 lbs). Add four 150 lbs people (small people) and you are already at 741 lbs without cargo, food, etc.
Maybe something is being missed in the specs, but that only gives 120 lbs for cargo/luggage after people and water.
The VW camper vans in the late 1990s early 2000s had the same problem. When you added in driver and passenger you were just about at the GVWR without any cargo.
Chris
With an Escalade ESV listing at $100k, the list price is not unreasonable. As always, you can find something cheaper, but it only matters if it fits you and your personal wallet.
It's a formatting problem on the page. The "9" for "9720" is on the previous line. So UVW is 9720.
It looks like they are accounting for approximately 3 people to come up for 861 lbs CCC. That's also incorrect usage, as CCC is only for towables only these days. Current standard for motorized is to state OCCC which is "Occupant and Cargo Carrying Capacity). That is GVWR-UVW and full propane (if the coach has propane, which this doesn't. So OCCC is 1310 lbs. To arrive at 861 lbs "CCC", FT is using a weird number of 449 lbs for passengers (at 154 lbs per, that's 2.91 people), yet there are at least 3 additional seat belts so the coach could seat 6.
6 passengers at 154 lbs apiece is 924 lbs. Add full water at the number you mention, 141 lbs, now you're at 1065 lbs people and water of that 1310 lb OCCC.
In looking at the coach on Foretravel's site at Foretravel Motorcoach - 2018 Foretravel MicroVilla (http://foretravel.com/coach-view.php?id=756) , it seems to offer almost nothing for someone visiting the outdoors. The black color is a heat magnet, the interior seems thrown together with little thought for space utilization, just put some seats in the back that fold down but how in the world do you put any sheets on the bed? Lots of cracks and crevices to disturb one's sleep. Two rows of seats in the front? The upholstery design is tacky and the screen on the GPS, etc is from ten to fifteen years ago. Look at the screen in the new Telsa 3. This is the future in displays. The mirror ornament also does not fit in.
So, I see it as a big bucks limo with nothing to offer families with kids, dogs visiting National Parks. As a limo, it seems limited to metropolitan areas. I can see arriving at the Academy Awards in one. Otherwise, airlines satisfy the need for speed. Don't think they will sell many of these.
Pierce
I would imagine these are customizable to some extent. I don't see the need for four seats if it just sleeps two. The floor plan that I like personally is the rear galley and rear bathroom with a center bed, just don't think they build them that way. Prolly cause no one else liked em. But if you were to loose a seat or two and make a MUCH larger bathroom , I could tempt my DW. Isn't it the bathroom and kitchen that always get remodeled because that Is what the ladies want ??
#36 seems to cover everything that strikes me as off, the Roadtrek appears to be a better unit and at $30-40k less more usable as an RV. Why the diesel gen-pac ? my pals RT has an engine mounted gen that he says he uses only after 2 or more cloudy days and reaches full charge on the lithium batteries very quickly. ^.^d
I wonder if Foretravel might follow the MicroVilla with a MiniVilla, a Villa, and complete the family with a GrandVilla. Then rename the IH a MegaVilla.
One step further: How about, ultimately--a VA-nilla? >:D
Hard to add much to this conversation...as you said, wish them success, weights see odd at best, use may be in transportantion more than how some of us see usung Class A
One of you touched on a small A as an alternative. A dedicated FT owner told me recently, that Ford V10 was really good for me. I think a good alternative would be small A with gasoline. The more he reviewed if great brakes without air, gasoline, quality build, he would go there but never a B that costs as much.
Seems I recall Winnebago or someone doing a 32 ft like that?
From the larger bus models I've seen (many), no one has ever complained about the lack of power of the V-10. Now, in a Super B, or shortie A, could almost be overkill (but nice!) ^.^d
Just a thought, back when my '99 was sold there were probably people saying the same comments here about my coach being too expensive, and they could by MH __________ fill in the blank much cheaper. But when we are buying around 10 to 20 percent of the original price they are great deals. The generation after ours might see them as a great deal at around 12 to 15 grand. 15 years from now. I hope so.
I came across this Sprinter page with a lot of different ideas. I love the idea of the fold down bed with full length plus wood used for the ceiling and floor. Looks very outdoors. Best 10+ Sprinter van conversion ideas on Pinterest | Conversion van, Camper... (https://www.pinterest.com/explore/sprinter-van-conversion/?lp=true) The mini bath is also neat. My Westfalia had a large factory tent that sealed up against the Vanagon to give a large room. Another good idea for a Sprinter.
For those who might want to DIY the conversion, here is a good book that details the conversion process as well as comparing other brand van conversions. Build Your Own Dream Camper Van | Sprinter RV (http://www.sprinter-rv.com/sprinter-rv-conversion-sourcebook/)
The Dodge Promaster (Citroen, Fiat, Peugeot) van is also a popular conversion with both gas and diesel options as well as a manual transmission possibility. They also have a GALVANIZED body so they should have excellent longevity. See photos at: ProMaster Series - XL21' dodge promaster rv - Google Search (https://www.google.com/search?q=dodge+promaster+rv&rlz=1C5CHFA_enUS743US743&tbm=isch&imgil=6llGEXWValmyhM%253A%253BCaswqcW30eosXM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.safaricondo.com%25252Fen%25252Fmotorises_Promaster_FLEX&source=iu&pf=m&fir=6llGEXWValmyhM%253A%252CCaswqcW30eosXM%252C_&usg=__rP3Ws4uC7rrHqipL5NzUwIMGZdg%3D&biw=1360&bih=644&ved=0ahUKEwiyntiAronWAhVlqVQKHdZfDLoQyjcIvgE&ei=dSOsWfKPOOXS0gLWv7HQCw#imgdii=t11Ep3IpOku6mM:&imgrc=6llGEXWValmyhM:) Fiat's Ducato version also offers 4x4 for off road enthusiasts. See the automated manual transmission in action at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVfPejgPzEs
Ford Transit vans are are also a player in this ultra competitive market. Don't know if they have a diesel though.
Pierce
Right after I posted the above, we drove to Sacramento. Both a new Fiat Ducato (Ram ProMaster) with a Winnebago Trovato conversion and a MBZ Sprinter were in the lot. The Ducato has almost straight sides and is much wider than the Sprinter with same height and length. I spoke to the owner who had just bought it and he seemed on top of the world. A 185 hp four cylinder diesel is only available with a manual transmission with automatic clutch (no clutch pedal). Shifts auto or manual. Gasoline available with full automatic transmission. Listed for $110K at La Mesa RV in Davis, Ca. They discounted it to $77K for a NEW one. It looked NICE.
FWIW they have checked off most of the high end Euro stuff including likely self leveling xenon headlights with washers