Pulled into Hays , Kansas last evening feeling good about the days drive . Put the slides out with the gen set running , turn the air conditioners and in about 20 seconds the gen set shut off . It would start right back up , but as soon as it had a load it quit . Played with this a while , nothing . Had a hot night trying to sleep . Up at 4:30 , headed East , destination Kansas City , Missouri to the Central Cummins location off I-435 . I had called ahead , was told they could not look at it till Monday . Hmmm. Got there about 10:30 explained I had two freezers full of meat and was worried sick -----The ice broke , got it in the shop and two hours later was notified that the secondary inverter was bad . Now the fun part price of inverter a mere------$5,400.00 plus freight , plus labor . Will be in the neighborhood of $7,000.00 when completed . This coach has two inverters , glad both didn't up and die at the same time . Might have to rent out Barney for a spell . In my wildest imagination I figured the cost might be around $3,000.00 tops , boy was I wrong . Just a pity party ---that's all . :( :( :( Brad Metzger
What exact inverter? I have a local guy who repairs inverters. Save the box and ship the deceased one to me after I verify parts are available for that unit.
Yes I know it's heavy. $125 roughly each way ups.
At $5k I would fix the unit and have a spare myself.
Believe this is similar to the system Brad has. Doubt your local guy can fix it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ef-qFE8be98
All I can tell you is what was said to me by the shop foreman --The secondary inverter failed ---- There are two and I don't know one from the other . They are stacked and water cooled thru the gen set radiator by electric water pump . Yes , I will keep the old one and contact you on the rebuild effort .Way over my head kind of stuff . Brad Metzger
2010 Foretravel Phenix 45 Priced at $ (http://motorhomesoftexas.com/coachrv/foretravel/2010--phenix--45--C1613)
Note the generator installed in 2010 Phenix's
Damm the fun just keeps on coming?
That is one fancy invertor, and you have a pair of them. The $5,400. I can understand the $1,600 labor I don't.
You can buy A LOT of generator fuel for 7K.
Problem with the Onan Hybrid System is that even if gen runs fine, it will not power anything, if rest of system, [including inverters] are not working. Kind of like engine and transmission work great, but driveshaft is broken.
New ih45 does not have the hybrid system it seems
The big bite in the hiney is when either of these inverters fail you got absolutely nothing except what is in your batteries . problem being this coach #6527 is total electric and this leaves only 12 volt things . The inverters are what makes this thing dance . I have six 8-D gell batteries which feed the inverters but they got to be working . The Cummins tech has things wired in such a way that on (--Shore Power--only) , every things works except that the house batteries won't charge only the chassis batteries . It is great to be at their CG , and hooked up , fridge and everything that is on 120 works . After being way too hot last night the air conditioners have new worth . So many things get taken for granted because they are there and work . Don't like the $$$$ thing but what are the choices . Yes , I will pay , not like it but---- Hmmm Brad Me3tzger
A separate battery charger should work. 6 gel 8d's Batteries can take up to 270 amps charging.
I carry a 60 amp smart charger
Cummins store should have a hd charger I would think.
Bob, even if house batteries are fully charged, with no inverter, no air conditioning, stove, refrigerator, or anything else that run on 110 volts. Don't forget the two freezers full of meat.
My 6 , 8-D batteries are charged to 14.1 near full , but like you say , nothing 120 volts comes from them without the inverters . Brad Metzger
According to that video, shore power goes directly to the transfer switch. Do you not have a small portable generator to use in emergencies?
With 3 air conditioners and an all electric coach, he would need a 10000 watt generator, most of that size would take up a lot of room in the bays, and if gasoline, would need a good size gas tank.
Would he be running 3 AC's in an emergency?
A Honda 3000 watt generator would run 1 AC unit, the reefer and both freezers.
True it would run that, but in the south, in the summer, in a dark painted 45 ft coach, one ac probably would cool only the bedroom.
The eu3000 burns about a gallon every 5 hours at 1/2 load, so you would need to carry a couple of jerry cans of gas as well.
If he is travelling, as he is, would have to leave a bay open for ventilation for the generator. I think I would do as Brad is doing, find a place to plug in and wait for the parts to fix his coach.
How about an electrical invertor bypass circuit? There are some electrical smarty's on the Forum, that with his schematic could draw something up.
This inverter/generator system is not your father's generator...
I don't have the exact specs, but it goes something like this, all to improve efficiency and frequency stability over old style generators that produce 60 Hz 120/240 VAC power directly from the rotating armature.
The generator produces 3 phase AC power at high frequency, say 10khz - 20kHz, this is then converted to clean DC at high voltage - say 100 - 200 volts. The inverter then converts this high voltage DC to 60 Hz 120/240 VAC power with almost perfect stability and voltage under varying loads. This type of system is not dependent on generator RPM, the generator can run slower for lighter loads and slowly speed up as load increases.
So this type of generator cannot be hot wired to the coach.
The other great feature of this system is the ability to run most systems on battery and inverters only. When the system senses too much load on batteries or they need charging, the gen will light off to take load or charge batteries or both. The gen will only run fast enough to satisfy the coach loads. All this is done automatically without the owners input. Here is a good article.
The Onboard Generator Market | RV PRO (https://rv-pro.com/features/onboard-generator-market)
That article is almost 8 years old. The new stuff is probably way better.
Yes, that is the system Brad has in his coach, newer ones use 48 volt battery banks and inverters to run everything and a 48 volt dc generator to charge the batteries.
These two inverters look exact same . They are stacked one in a rack above the other . Don't know which is primary or which is secondary . Had a close look at them just now . I can hear coolant circulating in them thru the tubing connected to each of them . Was looking for numbers to indicate what wattage they were rated at . Found nothing , but have heard that talked about with numbers of 2000 and 3000 watts each . Will ask specific numbers and post them . I can tell that lots of heat is involved when I feel the cooling tubes from the units going toward the gen set radiator and the returning side is a bit cooler .Looks very complex to me . Heavy wire going to and from 6 different wall mounted boxes small to medium in size and a automatic switch box and each item is labeled " Onan Quit Box System " A complete closed system that has worked very well for seven years and 97,000 miles . So , can't bitch too much , I guess , but a little pity party is going on . :( :( :( Brad Metzger
Could a new bus conversion be on the way?
Looks like two 3000 inverters. The quote is from an ad for an IH-45.
"The electronics on the IH-45 are cutting-edge. In addition to the Spyder Control System, two 3,000-watt water-cooled inverters and a house battery pack consisting of six gel-cell deep-cycle batteries can power everything with the exception of the washer/dryer and four 15,000-Btu roof air conditioners with heat pumps. Foretravel has incorporated an auto-start Onan 12/18 hybrid diesel-powered auxiliary generator in the electrics package for a very specific reason. This hybrid gen set takes 12-volt-DC power from the house batteries and mixes it with the generator's 120-volt, 75-amp electrical power for those peak demand times (up to 18,000 watts) when temporary spikes in electrical usage occur — for example, when everything electrical (120-volt) is loaded or brought online simultaneously."
I think you nailed it this time . You described what I have . It has been a great system till this , but , time and use take their toll , so don't really have a complaint . Don't like it very much , but----BradMetzger
Cutting edge - ouch that always hurts, and inverts your wallet. I am watching my company's $140,000 software investment 8 years ago turn into dog doo (no offense Barney), in which we are being penalized for being a long term customer. Our competitors can now get the same for $4500, and cheaper yearly maintenance fees. I bought old school tech coach cause I got tired of the service managers named Ben Dover. Just saying.
Got a super good phone call yesterday . first one from James T. and the other from a upper management guy from Onan both saying that I would get some help with the cost . Felt like a kid on Christmas morning . Didn't know what to expect and was thinking maybe about half the cost . Turns out that Lyle Reed Pres. of Foretravel , got involved , then the phone thing . This is a big piece of good that I did not expect and am very appreciative of . I will post as this comes about in a day or so . :)) :)) :)) :)) Brad Metzger
Wow Brad that is great news, I hope that moves Foretravel back up at least a notch after that good gesture.. :)) ^.^d
Here it is , day seven . Watching the grass grow is ok for a couple of days but----and just how much shopping can your DW do ?? Checked with the service writer , no inverter yet , don't expect it to be arriving by UPS or Fed X , this leaves truck or pony express . It can't get here till this afternoon at the earliest , so off to the mall we go . Had no idea of the time involved but it is what it is and will not moan to loudly since the price is right because of the effort behind the scenes to made this come out properly in the first place and is very much appreciated . This Foretravel thing has deeper roots than I expected . Brad Metzger
I'm liking my U225 with the $39 Schumacher 750 watt inverter much better after reading this.
Good luck Brad.
Since I have a tiny bit of time on my hands , ----have been checking around this area . A notable industrial area indeed . There is a cement producing place that has been sending loaded trucks out around the clock for the last few days . There is some extra large buildings that cover acres each . A parking lot at least twenty acres in size full of new Ford trucks and vans . Strings of new stuff is arriving continuously and truck loads are leaving one behind the other . There is a Ford plant close by but haven't seen it yet . A large Volvo truck operation . Big shipping truck place , looks like maybe 60 or more back into dock spots . Several other factories that I don't know what they produce . And of course this Cummins place is also large . Makes me feel good to see these American companies thriving with American employees . ;D ;D ;D Brad Metzger
Your cows are going to weight 2000 lbs time you get back.
The magical phone call just happened . The inverter arrived and we will go in the shop at 7:00 tomorrow morning . Good news , a bit slow getting here but good . Sure hope it goes in without a hitch and operates properly . ;D ;D ;D Brad Metzger
It is done :)) :)) :)) and working properly :)) :)) :)) Cummins provided the inverter at no charge , no shipping charge , all day in the shop doing the removal of the defective unit , installation of the new unit and lots of hours of programing the computer for the system . Total bill $979.35 :)) :)) :)) This looks real good to me as the price estimate on first diagnosis was $7,000.00 results are --happy camper -- James T got the ball rolling , Lyle Reed made it happen . As I said before Foretravel runs deep . May have another look at the IH after all . Did not expect anything from Foretravel . Was a little shocked to put it mildly . We are back at Cummins camp ground for the night and will pull the anchor tomorrow morning and head East with as smile on my face . Eight days sitting was a test all right but in the end was worth it Brad Metzger
Squeaky wheels & grease, Brad. Think about it.
Brad I am really glad FT did you above and beyond. It is the people purchasing new Foretravel that keep the FT entity strong and running for the rest of us that own older FT coaches. The positive talk about this will pay dividends for the company. Drive safely John
I am glad FOT came through for you on this one. I think they should have stepped up with your first mess, especially when they KNEW of the flaw.
Have a safe trip home.
That's great Brad.
My hat goes off to Foretravel and Cummins for their fair and honorable handling of this situation.
Forgot to tell about this . When my coach was put in the shop , another Foretravel was brought in by wrecker and put in the bay next to mine . Never saw the owner as he was not there . The shop guys said that what was wrong was the batteries were just installed at another place and the grounds were not tightened . Nothing was wrong with the entire system , grounds tightened up and coach was driven out and parked . The club number on it is 18045 . my book is a 2017 and does not show numbers that high . Any one know who this is .?? Was told he lives in the general area of Kansas City . Brad Metzger
The Onan system preformed . Made it run all night , pulling three AC units as a test . Phyllis washed two loads and dried them as well while using the dish washer . It did what is expected of it and I can tell you --it feels good to get it back on line . :) :) : Got home at 3:30 this afternoon , parked the coach in it's bay , hooked up , all is well . Feels good to run all those miles and not have a problem and get home safely . ^.^d Brad Metzger