I am breaking this information from an earlier message to more specifically address the flooring replacement process itself.
The information will probably be of interest to other forum members.
Trent
I have removed all of the carpeting and padding in the front of the coach, and all of the floor carpeting in the bedroom.
It will all be replaced with a solid core luxury vinyl plank flooring product from Lifeproof. This flooring is 7.1" wide and 47.6" wide. Each box contains 8 planks (18.73 sq ft;) I have 14 boxes of it in my living room. It is sold by Home Depot:
LifeProof Essential Oak 7.1 in. x 47.6 in. Luxury Vinyl Plank Flooring... (http://www.homedepot.com/p/LifeProof-Essential-Oak-7-1-in-x-47-6-in-Luxury-Vinyl-Plank-Flooring-18-73-sq-ft-case-I170263L/300886748?keyword=1002-246-583)
My Foretravel came from the factory with tile flooring in the kitchen and bathroom. It sits about 3/8" above the plywood subfloor. With some advice from my flooring guru (thank you, John) I plan to do the following:
A. install 3/8" plywood on top of the existing plywood in the living room and dining room;
B. replace the (3/16" ?) tack strips in the bedroom with 1/8" plywood;
C. install 1/4" plywood over the 1/8" edge strips and the existing black soundproof underlayment;
D. install the luxury vinyl planks from the front to the rear as one continuous, contiguous floating floor.
I have several questions, some general, and some specific to the installation steps above.
A. The existing (3/4" ?) subfloor seems to be pretty good quality. It appears to be installed without any spacing between adjacent panels. It appears to be very solid. My new 3/8" plywood has at least one good side, which will face up. I had originally planned to glue and screw the new plywood to the old plywood. However my labor is much more expensive than when I was younger.
Should there be any spacing between the new panels?
Is it necessary to use any glue?
Would 1" brads be okay instead of screws?
Is it necessary to use any mechanical fastener?
What would happen if I try to shoot a brad and hit one of the bolts holding the vertical basement panels?
B. and C. The vinyl flooring is designed to be installed over a solid subfloor. My expectation is that the expensive sound suppression layer that FOT installed, compressed under the narrow (less than two feet) strips of 1/4" plywood will be solid enough to avoid a problem. (This appears to be the same black underlayment installed in the cockpit area of the RV, but that had deteriorated significantly from the foot traffic over the years.)
Is it worth trying to retain the sound/heat suppression underlayment in the bedroom?
Is it necessary to use any mechanical fastener (there will only be three pieces, with nowhere to move)?
D. I know that I could not install a wood laminate flooring product for that length of room size (my master bedroom is exhibit one). It is my expectation that the expansion and contraction of the solid core vinyl flooring should not be as much of a problem as the wood laminate in my home turned out to be. I am trying to create a professional looking "seamless" product, hiding the fact that it originally came from the factory with different flooring in different locations. This product is 6.5 mm thick and the "solid core" is pretty solid. It will be installed with a 1/4" gap at all walls and builtin furniture.
Is my plan of not creating separate sections acceptable for this installation?
I know many of you have replaced your old carpet with something else. I have done a lot of research on the topic, but I do not have the real experience of living with it as you have done. I would like to hear what you have learned that may apply to my DIY installation plans. All comments, observations, suggestions, and warnings will be gratefully cherished.
Thank you,
Trent and Jean
When I was talking to David F he said not to put wood in the bedroom. I did put it up front by the entry. His reason was noise not heat.
I have wood in my bedroom. It probably is noisier, but since I'm never back there trying sleep with the engine running it does not matter to me. When driving I close the pocket door that leads into the bedroom.
Engineered wood, adhered with urethane adhesive- expansion/contraction is a non issue. I do this all the time without any call backs. After 45+ years in the business, I work with the best materials. FYI
Trent,
One sentence on the product description of your flooring bothers me:
"For use indoors and in temperature-controlled environments only"
I had carpets in two previous coaches, hated them. I think Brett and Dianne had this coach when they ripped the carpet out and replaced it with "Congoleum Dura" ceramic floor tile. The cockpit and rear bedroom were left alone, the bath was done. Whoever did it, did a heck of a job! Easy to clean, no cracks or de-lamination since installed in 07. It could be a old # now, but I have:
RA41 HO270 12 WL274 tile. ^.^d ^.^d
Brett,
That bothered me a little bit, too, but I decided the product seemed to be of sufficient quality that it was worth trying. When we full time, it will be a temperature controlled environment. It is already an "indoor" environment. We will find out for sure within 2-3 years. As a fully floating installation, it will be straight forward to remove it and replace with a product that does not have that caveat.
Trent
John,
It is not a wood product. The bottom layer is a "Sound Mitigating Underlayment."
Trent
That might work then. They are putting tile in the rear bath so they must have figured out the issue on the new coaches
Trent,
Here is what we did in our coach. We used a composite flooring. Got rid of all the carpet and sound proofing mat. Our floor is floating and I laid it down with an 1/8" gap around the perimeter and a sound pad underneath the entire floor. The only spot I didn't take to the wall was behind the large sofa. I kept it 6" away from the wall so I wouldn't have to disturb the seat belts and all of the wiring that was there. The whole edge I screwed down and around the steps opening to the sub floor.. Going on a year and it's been great. Sound level has been great. No different than before.
John M.
Flooring & Carpet Complete (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=30650.msg278611#msg278611)
Is that tile around the pot in the bathroom? How do you access the plumbing behind? Thanks,MM
Mine has the carpet removed and some ugly vinyl surround.
Thanks, John.
My water inlet runs down the wall behind and has a plywood angled box over it . I like the tile as I tiled the entire bus less the bedroom .
Mike, I pulled the toilet and tiled the platform around the flange. While I had the toilet off I did some preventive maintenance and cleaned the toilet and changed the seals. Their is no plumbing behind the toilet. Water inlet is on the side of the toilet by the flush pedal.
John M.
Brett,
Thank you for the feedback. Based on your information, I have removed the black stuff. All non-tile flooring will be covered with 3/8" plywood to match the tile height. I had planned to make it one continuous surface of luxury vinyl planks (LifeProof), running from the driver side to passenger side.
But now I am wondering about the kitchen cabinets and bathroom closets. My starting point will be the rear driver side corner of the living room, going lengthwise towards the front. Once I get past the end table and kitchen counter extension, I will have to install backwards toward the sink. Similarly, when I get past the pantry, I have to go backwards toward the mirror doors. when I get to the bedroom, to be consistent, I will have to go backwards to fill in the driver side bed path.
In my home, I always used a transition piece to separate the rooms from the hallway, etc.. It will be easier, to install the bedroom separately and use a transition piece between it and the bathroom. Is there any additional problem with making the floating floor mass one huge piece?
Other than increased installation time, is there any reason to avoid doing that and making the bedroom as a separate floating floor?
I have already installed the first piece of plywood from the driver side front to 8' back (and 4' across). I was able to do it by only cutting a slot for the steering pole and a hole for the brake pedal. Will make that a separate report; I found it much simpler than some others have done, but you do have to measure much more than once.
Looking for last minute advice as I near the home stretch. Thanks to anyone that is willing to help me avoid stumbling before the finish line.
Trent
When I removed the carpeting, padding, and tackstrips in the bedroom, I was left with a 3/4" x 3/4" stick along both sides of the bed at floor level. The 120 VAC wiring for the night stand outlets was screwed to this piece. I moved the screw clamps from there to above those blocks so the wiring is now off the floor area and mounted flat to the bed platform.
I removed three (panhead) screws that held the rearmost part of those blocks in place. Upon trying to lift that end, it did not want to budge, as if it was glued also. Has anyone removed those blocks? Is it part of the structure of the built up platform? Will anything bad happen if I remove them? (Remember that, previously, these areas were hidden by carpet.)
I will have a 3/4" quarter round at that location, above the finished floor. If I can replace those blocks with a decorative quarter round, I gain that much in floor space (I know; it is only 3/4" on each side). Additionally, I think it will give a more professional look to the flooring installation.
Anyone have experience with removing those blocks? As long as they are not structural components, that is what I intend to do. Any advice or suggestions about that would be helpful.
Thanks,
Trent
Speaking of quarter round stock installed at the edge of new flooring:
I assume that is is worthwhile to cope all inside corners instead of trying to join them with a miter joint. At least that was my experience when replacing the flooring in my large sticks and bricks home.
Miter joints are fine for outside corners.
What have the rest of you done in this area?
Thanks,
Trent
RE wire run on either side of bed:
I left the small 3/4 by 3/4 on each side of the bed - We left the carpeting on the side of the bed. I redid the screws so that the wiring was directly up against the bed, and then the fluff of the carpet was enough to cover most of the 3/4 stick and wire. The quarter round was sufficient to be visually pleasing on one side. On the other side, I altered a 4-by-1 transition piece.
RE trim:
I used a miter saw for all the trim, interior and exterior angles. There are no weird angles - for us the shower and bathroom sink are at 45 degrees (so you use 22.5 degrees on the saw), and the entryway angle is 120 degrees (so you use 30 degrees on the saw). Everything meets up with minimum experimentation, if you are familiar with the process and have a little patience. Because of all the small pieces, and because the nearest Lowe's was over an hour away and I didn't want to run out of trim, I tried to cut about 1/16th inch or so long on each piece, and then shave it once or twice to make sure it met exactly.
RE transitions:
We pulled up the existing kitchen wood, and ran ours in one fell swoop from the entry way all the way to the bedside drawers. It's only been a few days since we finished.... so no ideas if there will be any repercussions for doing it that way!
RE Toilet:
With some careful measuring and hole cutting, I was able to lay the tile without removing the toilet. It required some serious patience, and by the time I was done, removing the toilet would have been equally as time consuming. Best practice is probably based on the material you chose and your body's current flexibility level!
RE Wood in the bedroom:
Drove about 100 miles a few days ago after installing the wood. No noise increase, no discernible movement in our floating floor.
What have the rest of you done in this area?
I never use quarter round as I cut the material tight against the walls, cabinets, etc
Erniee,
That's why yours always looks so good!
(And one of the benefits of gluing it down.)
Trent
When I did the bedroom Bamboo flooring (I did all the bamboo floor in a transverse fashion because after looking at other installations, I felt that lengthwise made the coach look narrower), I left the 3/4" square furring strip in place and moved the romex cable to the side of the bed platform. I cut a strip of the carpet along the bottom of both sides of the bed and made a trim piece using oak molding and a 3/4" square strip glued and pin nailed along the top edge of the molding and at the end. This created a hollow chase for the cable, and is removable (I used countersunk screws to attach the trim piece). Hopefully the pictures will help clarify... just another option. I used no transition strip between the bathroom and the bedroom, but I did between the kitchen and bathroom. It is a fully floating bamboo floor from the bedroom to just before cockpit area in the front, which is floating vinyl tile. It is all at the same level throughout.
Don
Don, I like the look of your transverse bamboo. Do you by any chance have a shot of living room area?
Astoundingly enough, I can't find any pictures of the finished living room area, though I have many in-process shots. Here are a couple that show the most uncluttered expanse of the bamboo, as well as a couple of the bathroom area to give an idea of the trim challenges and possibilities, as well as one close up of where the flooring meets the kitchen cabinet, where I used some cedar toned caulking instead of trim (I ran out of time, may yet go back and add the trim, though i think the caulking does the job). When I was doing the front flooring, my house where I was doing the work was in the process of selling and as I recall, about the time I finished I had to get the coach out of there and so didn't have time to clean up the mess and take some beauty shots (basically had to cram the coach full of stuff :o ).
Don
"Installed" was a bit of a stretch. I had it in position, but it was not yet screwed down. Since I am screwing 3/8" plywood to 3/4" ply wood (9/8") I figured 1" screws would be perfect. When I started doing it, I ran into some problems with the screws not penetrating the original subfloor enough. Looking at it more closely, I think it was 1/2" and not 3/4". I suspect (hope), I was just running into metal framework on some of my attempts.
I had purchased some #8 x 1" wood screws to accomplish that. However, I had some #6 x 1" drywall screws, so I tried using those. The threads were very aggressive and did not bite into the subfloor very well. Tried the #8's and had mostly the same result. In a couple of places, like beside the cutout slot for the steering column, away from the edge, they did bite.
Is the problem simply that when I was trying to put screws around the edges, I was just running into a metal framework? Is the answer to just move over a couple of inches and try again? Would drilling a pilot hole let me penetrate the steel frame? Help! Has anyone run into the problem? How did you resolve it?
No pressure, because I'm taking DW to the Winstar "resort" for a couple days of R&R. Hope to find some solutions and advice when I return at the end of the week.
Thanks to all of you,
Trent
Thanks Don, that looks dang nice. That bamboo is a nice, solid honest material. I know for a fact it wears exceptionally well. I've got a walnut interior, so some pondering on how it would work with it....also considering mesquite.
Anytime you are considering a flooring change, one of the important factors is WEIGHT/SQ FT.
Poster child (worse case) is an acquaintance who replaced carpet with granite.
Best case: cork.
Trent why not glue to sub floor and use an air stapler. Pour white glue 100% then the 3/8th ply and staple away. Makes for fast very stable floor and stronger.
John H
John,
If, as I fear, I am running into metal at the 3/4" point (especially near the edges), how would the staples fare?
Would 3/4" be a long enough staple in 3/8" ply over 1/2" ply?
Thanks for your advice,
Trent
Had carpet, put down ceramic - maybe 800 pounds more weight.
Later took it out and put in luxury vinyl. Saved the weight, better look, warmer under foot.
Having had wood, ceramic, venial and carpet - here is my preference
- luxury vinyl, grouted at 1/8"
- wood
- Carpet
- Ceramic
Actually, would never have carpet or ceramic again, unless it looked great and was in a coach I was buying used.
Tim Fiedler
Sure Start Soft Start (http://www.gen-pro.biz)
TCER Direct (http://www.tcerdirect.com) generator-gas-prod (http://www.generatorgasproducts.com) 630 240-9139
Gen-Pro
I encountered the same issue when I was screwing down my 1/4" underlayment. I hit " something", and IMMMEDIATELY backed off. My fix...since I had used subfloor adhesive to avoid " squeaks ", was simply to move away and use shorter screws!!
Really like the transverse install. Had to smile at the wider rationale as I went the other way wanting it to look longer. Also like the bambo grain pattern.
I'm sure you said this somewhere but maybe I missed it. What's the thought process with the new layer of plywood? With "The Steel Plate" covered by a layer of decently thick plywood, I would think the original plywood would need to be in pretty bad shape to need a new layer over top?
I'm not saying it's a bad idea, I'm just trying to learn what the benefit is. My plywood was in great shape when I uncovered it. The toilet plywood was in the worst shape, and even that I was able to cut&sand rather than replace.
In my case, it was to bring the carpeted area up to the level of the top of the tile. I will then install new luxury vinyl planks over the plywood and the tile to appear as one continuous floor.
Trent
The original plywood subfloor is in good shape throughout our coach. Well, that is except for the area that was wood in front of the sink... by the time the demo was finished, I had some divots to repair. For that repair, I used West Systems epoxy with some filler and fiberglass cloth. I do believe that that area is stronger than ever now. Anyway, for the Bamboo flooring, approx. ½" thick, I used ¼" rolled cork underpayment, making a floor that is ¾" proud of the subfloor. When it came time to replace the carpet in the cockpit area, I chose some floating luxury vinyl tile that is about a just under a ¼" thick, a layer of quarter inch ACX plywood, and some 5/16" roll rubber gym flooring under the vinyl. So in my case, the plywood was put in to make all the flooring surface at the same leveI. I could have used plywood by itself to get really close, but I wanted the sound dampening effect of the super dense rubber to take the place of the soft black vinyl with a lead layer that Foretravel used. The original stuff was deteriorating and was to resilient to use as an under layment for my flooring choices.
Don
I put the 3/8 down to stiffen the sub floor for ceramic. 3/4 staples are fine if you use glue at 100% coverage.
JohnH
The subfloor at the opening at the top of the stairs has a slot for the cover to slide into. The top of that opening consists of a 1/4" steel ledger with 3/8" plywood over it. The ledger covers the length of the entire opening, but I do not know how wide it is. Although I do wear safety glasses while stapling, I do not want to hit that 1/4" steel plate.
Does anyone know how wide that 1/4" steel ledger is?
If not, I can just drill some 1/16" holes into the plywood until it stops hitting the steel plate. Probably should do that anyway to confirm whatever we think. Since I have already asked, I will leave the question for this august body to ponder.
Thanks,
Trent
The steel plate is at least as deep and wide as the aluminum step cover is. That slot you refer to is just below the level of the subfloor plus the thickness (¼") of the steel plate. The reason it is there is because (my speculation) Foretravel wanted to have the step cover as close to the finished floor level as possible. This meant that there couldn't be any of the 1.5" square tube framing in the space occupied by the step cover while it is retracted. As it affects the depth of the fasteners, the sub floor in our coach (if I recall correctly) I believe is ⅝" but for sure is at least ½".
Don