So I recently bought my first motorhome. 93 U300 with a 6V92. It came from a man that I know takes very good care of everything he owns (certified mopar muscle car nut). I'm from Fort Smith Arkansas, work in Wichita Kansas (for now) and bought it from Kent Washington. My father and I drove up, put new tires on it and headed back. 5 hours into the return trip about 60 miles west of Spokane, we pulled into a truckstop to grab some snacks, give it a once over, check fluids and what not. The thing had lost every bit of its off idle power but was running fine on I90 at like 1800 rpm. Our truck we were towing was covered in oil and so was the back of my new baby.
Don't know what to say to that except for wow. Hate that feeling in the pit of the stomach.
Are you "dead in the water"? Spokane would be your closest town for service. Good luck! ^.^d
REALLY sorry to hear about this breakdown. The 6V92 has always enjoyed a loyal following on this Forum, and I don't recall ever reading about a supercharger coming apart. Was there any indication of a overheat condition prior to failure? I found one old thread where heat management was discussed as critical to 6V92 engine life.
Don't know what else to say...
6V92TA DDEC Overheating (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=19565.0)
Look at the blower housing and blower lobes. He won't be driving anywhere.
The more important concern than just the supercharger is that the engine "ate" all the metal ground off the supercharger.
Our Forum buddy "bigdog" has had work done in Spokane, might send him a PM.
Looks like bearing failure. Make sure to check the oil feed to the supercharger. Hope the motor didn't ingest enough pieces to kill it.
After ingesting all that metal, an ebay engine may be your best bet unless you want to tear into it yourself. Guaranteed metal made it into the engine and would bet on damage. Thats a terrible failure, a new one to me. Sorry!
I've blown a turbo, but I heard it go and saw no oil pressure so was able to quickly. pull over. I just took the laptop down to the rv office and uploaded the OP pics to their large screen mainframe; holy crackers, that thing blew! I'm sure all of us are on the edge of our Flexsteels wondering WHAT caused that? :(
Yes, an in-frame is what you are looking at. And, make sure they flush all oil lines.
Bummer, it would have been nice to have another foretravel in Wichita.
When we first got all of our Detroits, the factory sent a team to get us up to speed on the engines. Oil changes with the correct oil were at the top of the list. The blower lobes just barely clear each other and if a bearing at either end fails, it will allow the aluminum lobes to touch sending a fine aluminum powder into the engine. It usually causes the compression ring to stick and you end up needing a set of cylinders and a blower. If the blower lobes continue to rub against each other, you will get what you see in the photos.
This failure has been coming on for a long time. A pre-purchase oil analysis would have caught it. While it is very rare, it's a good reminder what should be done when buying a coach. Easy to put a contingency on the sale until the results come back from the lab. I have to admit that I didn't do it on ours but should have.
None of the parts are very expensive but if you don't use Mercedes/Detroit factory kits, Clevite makes excellent cylinder kits for this engine. Lots of others but shop around.
Just wondering about the seller...
Pierce
That is a mess! I know a shop that did some work for me near Missoula, but that's probably too far. Spokane is probably your best bet. I hope you got it at a good price. It's a nice looking coach, and hate to see it sidelined.
Here are the Clevite kits at $205 each or $1230 for all six. This is for the turbo engine with 17:1 compression. Clevite 77 226-1738 Cylinder Sleeve Kit Detroit Diesel 6V92 8V92 12V92 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Clevite-77-226-1738-Cylinder-Sleeve-Kit-Detroit-Diesel-6V92-8V92-12V92-/162210476908?hash=item25c47f736c:g:ij0AAOSwal5YIRiK&vxp=mtr)
See this page for blowers for the 92. About $1000. Also, complete engines on the page also: detroit blower 92 | eBay (https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=detroit+blower&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xdetroit+blower+92.TRS0&_nkw=detroit+blower+92&_sacat=0)
Pretty easy to do an inframe yourself but probably not on the road.
If I were in your situation, I would probably have a Detroit specialist shop ship you a re manufactured engine and then just have it installed. Too easy for a run of the mill shop to do a poor job or try and sell overpriced parts, etc.
Pierce
In over fifteen years of FT ownership This is only the second engine disaster that I have heard of. This is very rare. Sorry that your were the one to win ( lose ) this lottery. Good luck with the repairs.
Gary B
Wow, what a shame! The rest of the coach looks really nice.
Find a Detroit Diesel shop. Not too many left that know this engine.
Maybe this one? http://www.cylex-usa.com/reviews/viewcompanywebsite.aspx?firmaName=pacific+detroit+diesel+allison&companyId=9722057
Pacific Detroit Diesel Allison, Spokane Valley, WA - Cylex® profile (https://spokane-valley.cylex-usa.com/company/pacific-detroit-diesel-allison-9722057.html)
Taking a look at the photos on my big screen, I looks like the blower may have ingested something. Usually, when the lobes start touching each other, they get a finer finish on them instead of the very rough appearance these have. Thinking a possible foreign body went through the turbo. How about asking the PO if there was any recent maintenance work done? Check the air cleaner and intake system for integrity and if something has been modified. Very easy to pull the element after opening the rear side compartment. Check turbo vanes on the compressor side. You can easily see any damage to the vanes. Blower failures are rare. Any overheating will not be a cause.
We were on a big brush fire that spread into the city. One of the Detroits sucked burning material into the air cleaner, which, in turn, caught fire and was sucked into the blower. That cost taxpayers a new engine but we put screens on the intake after that. It had also did the same to a 817 Waukesha a couple of months earlier.
Pierce
Only drive line chassis work on mine was a mere 2 hours after I bought it. But that happened in Mt. Vernon Washington over on the wet side.
The Foretravel tech at RnR RV (they are a former Foretravel dealer) might know of a good HD truck shop that wrenches on the two strokes. Otherwise Dans (AC7880) suggestion of Pacific Detroit would likely be the best place to start.
I'm a big fan of pryrometers and boost gauges, but I'm not sure if those could had even helped. I wonder if he and Dad are drinking men?
No magic words, just:
Holy Crap
Yikes, I'm very sorry.
You are a long way from them, but Stewart & Stephenson in Houston is probably the best on these engines. There are literally thousands of 92 series engines in marine service right now--- a very popular yacht engine, so shops that deal with marine engines are very familiar with the 92 series. You should have no trouble finding parts or a reman engine. Doing the engine swap is a bear. An inframe overhaul if the engine is truly gone is the fastest, cheapest way out and is not difficult. How many miles were on the engine?
Blower failure is Extremely rare. The cause is almost always foreign object ingestion or rotor bearing failure. The bearing failure will be due to oil starvation / low oil pressure. Had the engine been run low on oil or was the oil pressure low at any time that you noticed.
Detroit 2 cycle engines are amazingly durable. Do a compression check on it before you give up on it. They can ingest a lot of crap and keep running.
No flushing to be done.....best to find another short or complete...I feel the pain...
"You should have no trouble finding parts or a reman engine. Doing the engine swap is a bear. An inframe overhaul if the engine is truly gone is the fastest, cheapest way out and is not difficult." That wasn't our experience in January. These engines aren't all that common anymore, and parts are therefore more difficult (and expensive) to find. Yes, there are marine and military versions of the 6V92, but those aren't what we have in our coaches.
An in-frame overhaul takes some time, but is (apparently) relatively straightforward. The biggest challenge will be finding someone who has experience on these engines. We were fortunate to find a mechanic who actually knows these engines AND was teaching his son.
Wasn't cheap or quick, but the improvement we saw with the new engine was HUGE.
I know he came from Kent, WA (sea level) and must have crossed over Snoqualmie Pass (3,005 ft). To most of us, it would not be a big deal, but that is a steep climb eastbound. With the weight of a toad, it could have put that poor coach over the edge,heatwise, especially if no attention was paid to the gauges. The PO should have been more helpfull on driving these buggers.
I've been around lots of diesels growing up and I watch my gauges pretty religiously. Water temp got up to about 220-230 over the pass. Turbo compressor wheel looks fine, no nicks, dings, gouges or anything. It will get a pyro after it gets home. It is at B&B truck repair in Spokane. I felt pretty confident with them after talking to them and some other shops who had delt with them. I don't like to let others work on my stuff, almost always do it myself but I didn't have much of a choice here. All my tools were in the hangar in Wichita. I'm not excited to see what the bill comes out to. Especially after buying $3100 in tires and taking 2 weeks unpaid from work. I always keep a cushion in the checking account for emergencies such as this so it's not going to kill me but I sure am going to have to work a lot of overtime to get caught back up lol.
It's part of it. Machine$ break. Excu$e me while I go throw up now.
I'll keep ya posted as I figure out what's going on.
My 2 cents. If I were in your shoes. I would pull the covers on the side of the block and look at the intake ports on the cylinders,You should be able to see if and how much trash and damage has been done to the cylinders. If it isn't too too bad, I would clean intercooler,replace blower,do a full oil change,flush oil lines etc. Check entire air intake system and turbo for anything it could have ingested. Get it running and get it home where you can fix it at your convenience. I look at it, even if it doesn't make it all the way home,That's that many less miles I have to pay the tow truck! You'd be amazed how much crap a engine can ingest and still perform well. It looks like the after cooler caught a lot of the big chunks.jmo good luck whatever you do
Good chance that the cooler caught most of it. Compression check will show ring damage.
You are not alone. Given you'll be there for a while, a box of fresh doughnuts for the crew in the morning is a plus! ^.^d B&B has a good rep.
Well if they aren't drinking men they just might have started and are tipping back a tall toad about now.
Where it me, replace the blower, check the turbo and air intake system and flush the oil system. Fire it up and see what happens you got nothing to loose. Just because one piece breaks doesn't mean the whole engine is trashed. Done lots of one piston rod ring overhauls on chev motors due to bad head gaskets causing coolant leaks.
Just a thought, I had a 50 foot Chris Craft Commander with twin 8V92's. Marine of course. Issue I had was when I took delivery both engines were running real rough and both needed servicing. Needless to say the local diesel guys wanted big BB's (Boat Bucks) to even look at them let alone do any type of servicing. While I was scratching my head and looking at these two engines in my engine compartment that were both as big as small cars the dock mate from down the way wondered down with his son to say hello. Long story short, the son just got out of the Army and what do you suppose the army runs in a lot of it's rolling stock? (older ones that are still rambling around in the National Guard Armories). The son's MOS was "diesel repair". so it cost me the price of the oil, filters, and 12 pack for the weekend and both of those babies were purring like kittens when he was done. Moral of the story is call the Spokane National Guard and start asking some questions. Most of the equipment those units have are Army hand me downs and someone is repairing them. Just saying......and yes, I thanked him for his service.
Have you cut open the oil filter to check for metal contamination. If there is metal in the filter, how much and what type. I don't know on Detroit Diesels what the manufactures limits are, but on aircraft engines under 1/4 teaspoon you can replace filter and run for 20-30 minutes and check again. Depending on how many pieces you find determines how often you need to check again.
Guess I have a different perspective. The metal (and a lot of it) went through the inter-cooler (or at least the smaller pieces did) and into the cylinders. I have trouble believing that the pistons/cylinders/rings were not harmed. An in-frame is not that expensive, but if run with metal in it, it WILL be more costly.
Still waiting on parts and pieces and whatnot. Picking up 24 hours of overtime this weekend and probably Every weekend till the end of the year. Detroit wants $5000 for a new aftercooler! I'm checking with some of my big truck mechanics back in Arkansas for leads on parts. Think I might just have everything I need sitting in a shop in my hometown of all places.
You should not need a new aftercooler. Just clean the one you have. About $5000 on ebay buys a remanufactured engine. You might check all your induction components as you don't want a repeat. Contact a blower shop that specializes in the Detroit roots blowers and ask them what they think might be the cause of the failure. Your photos will help them. Mercedes-Detroit charges an arm and a leg for everything unless you are in the trade. We got up to 90% off list when I was in the business. Between MTU, BMW, Siemans and Tognum AG, nothing Detroit Diesel or Rolls Royce AG makes is going to be cheap.
Remember, no one even close to the trade pays anywhere close to list price.
Pierce
Agree with Brett! Do an inframe. Cheap and you will never have to wonder what problems may occur. You have a big moving apartment that you don't want to have break down in the middle of nowhere.
Here is an excellent video for how to overhaul a Detroit blower. Yours will need more parts than this one but they are super easy to work on:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZVgxY0yir8
Pierce
How did the metal get past the air-cooler? It's very fine.
When the vanes/rotors first start to touch, they put out a fine dust that passes through the aftercooler and some will collect in the "fire" ring top groove. This will stop the ring from expanding/contracting causing it to break.
As far as the $5000 some shops might tell you the aftercooler costs, here is one for $757.87 at: Detroit Diesel 92 Series Aftercooler | 6V92 | 8V92 (http://www.detroitdieselpartsdirect.com/Detroit-Diesel-92-Series-Aftercoolers)
For normal blower overhaul, the cost is $228: Detroit Diesel 92 Series Blower Repair Kit | 6V92 | 8V92 (http://www.detroitdieselpartsdirect.com/detroit-diesel-92-series-blower-repair-kits)
Unless the aftercooler is leaking, just spend a few minutes cleaning it. No big deal.
Someone is ALWAYS looking for a newbie to clean his/her bank account. If you don't do the research and learn to speak the lingo, you're just asking to get taken.
Pierce
Someone is ALWAYS looking for a newbie to clean his/her bank account. If you don't do the research and learn to speak the lingo, you're just asking to get taken
Hey Boo Boo, You Have to Be Smarter than the Average Bear! ^.^d
Krush,
You seem to have forgotten that at one time, you had zero mechanical knowledge. I remember when you were seeking advice on changing your rear end ratio in your coach. Our forum welcomes all members regardless of their mechanical or DIY background. While some of us may have worked under a shade tree, many others come from diverse vocations such as insurance, investments, medical, teaching and hundreds of other professions. What we all share is the love of travel and the outdoors. When trouble arises, members with expertise in the related area chime in to offer advice. I see tire prices being mentioned all the time here as well as LED conversions, air bag installations and hundreds of other subjects. When I saw the aftercooler quoted at $5000, I felt a obligation to post a link to a site with a much more attractive price as well as offering my opinion. Some members will have a yearly budget of several thousand dollars. Others have saved for years to purchase a Foretravel coach and if like me, check fuel prices in stops ahead for the most economical choice. Making pricing alternatives on the forum available seems to fit in well with the reason for our forum's existence.
I think ALL of our members are quite a bit smarter than the "average bear."
By the way, here is a brand new 92 series blower/supercharger for $349 delivered. Check part number. DETROIT DIESEL SUPERCHARGER CV92 #5101528 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/DETROIT-DIESEL-SUPERCHARGER-CV92-5101528-/222666996233?hash=item33d7fcba09:g:aJMAAOSwoi1X863R&vxp=mtr)
Pierce
Ebay is always my 1st stop. Close out's, NOS, roll ends, buy outs, or just something someone has laying around they don't need.. Always a good deal. Pay Pal protects you, no matter what.
And I would expert all our members to be able to read and respond correctly. Where did I mention bears in my post?
And for the record, I never sought advice on changing my rear end gears. I put my posts up to document my analysis and results. 30,000 miles later, and it's the best thing I have done to my RV. Some of the "advice" on this forum regarding my gear change was incorrect.
Hey Boo Boo, You Have to Be Smarter than the Average Bear! ^.^d
This was intended to be a funny. Lighten Up! it was not directed at anyone. Geeesh sometimes ya'll are soooooo serious.Ill save my lighthearted posts for Facebook from now on..
Krush was just a innocent bystander - he got caught in the crossfire.
Stump, IMHO, you should continue making your "lighthearted" posts here...I don't do Facebook.
Nothing wrong with a little humor to make us this older group smile.
Jim
2002 U320.
Stump,
The votes are in. Don't change!
Trent
Ended up being $2800 in parts and 42 hours of labor. The previous owner paid $5000 on the bill and I covered the difference .Flew to WA Friday and picked it up. Had to be back at work at noon on Sunday. Started having a charging issue in the middle of Wyoming. One alternator belt was gone and thought the other was slipping. Threw 2 new belts on it and had the same problem. Got fuel in Cheyenne Wyo and checked for lose cables. One was kinda loose so I tightened it and kept trucking. It would charge 13v then 11v. Sometimes it would alternate every five minutes sometimes every five seconds. Made it to Salina Kansas before the gauge showed a constant 11v. Only show 9v when I got to the house in Wichita but I made it.
You need to diagnose the problem.
Multiple belt failures:
Bad bearing in alternator.
Remove belt and turn pulley by hand-- check for roughness or tight bearing or play.
Electrical failure:
Start by verifying all connections at alternator and battery isolator are OK-- particularly the small gauge sense wire.
Then we can walk you through troubleshooting the alternator/isolator, as either can give exactly the same symptoms.
Your Detroit 6V-92TA should have a direct drive double pulley at the rear of the engine with two pretty short belts spinning the alternator. The alternator moves and then is tightened like many automotive alternators. No tensioner/idler or anything. It's accessible right below after you raise the bed and put a stick in to hold it up.
Check all connections to make sure wire/fitting corrosion or fatigue is not the cause. Check isolator and wiring.
Removing the alternator is a five minute job after you disconnect the engine batteries. Best way is to just take it to a small electric shop in your hometown. They can change brushes and put new bearings in as well as servicing the built-in regulator. The charge should be about $100 unless all the diodes have to be replace and then not that much more.
Install the new belts in pairs with Gates Fleet Green Stripe belts as my recommendation. Tighten the belts so you can just turn each 90 degrees mid span with your fingers. Too tight ruins bearings, too loose ruins belts. Check tension a few hundred miles after replacement. It's raining or I would get you the belt part numbers.
Pierce
Here is a typical U300 alternator with integral regulator as shown when we purchased our U300. You can see the belt adjustment on the top with the long fastener for the pivot point just out of sight on the bottom.
Note the second wire under the minus (-) terminal on the left. You can also see the white tape with the code on it (if still visible and not faded). Smart camera foto this so it goes back on the same way. No idea why they used red for the minus/ground cable.
Pierce
There is an alternator shop on Douglas just east of downtown.
Should you lose an alternator you can use the generator with the boost switch activated and let the house charger get you home.
Glad you got home Sounds like the seller is a good guy.
Did you rebuild the entire engine ? What was the scope of the repair?
New exhaust manifolds, remaned Turbo and Blower, front axel oil seal, and some other small parts like filters and oil and whatnot. Borescoped the engine and all the cylinders looked good. Wasn't worried about it much.