After pouring over the Owner's Manual for months I put together a simple checklist series to use now that we're finally getting the coach.
NOTE: These lists do not include camping related items like hooking up or disconnecting at campground. These will be added later. This is strictly about the operation of the vehicle systems.
Please provide us with your feedback and comments.
Thanks
Randy
NOTE: Revised original checklist to add air brake test and move transmission level check to end of day as suggested below.
I would add the air brake test procedure.
Not sure I know what this is. Please explain. Thanks
Pre-Trip Inspection | Brake Check | Commercial Driver's License (http://www.cdldigest.com/pre_trip_inspection/brake_check.html)
Randy, lets look at my list, narrow to necessary and practical vs other and show you air brake test....look at the operstion manual i made with subject tabs
There are little things you just learn with time, not eat the whole elephant at one bite...so my tab book takes me to subject areas as need.
These lists can get rather daunting...you know for after a time it became simple and practical things....just doing the Foretravel bump test as make a final walk around before pulling out! Did I remove that chock from under the wheel?
And a phone number for friends from forum i can call with question...quite valuable!
See ya tomorrow...you are in for great adventure after your long looking. Will be rewarded I am sure.
Mike
Air Brake System Pre-trip Check
1. Be on reasonably level ground. Block wheels so the coach can not move even with the parking brake off.
2. Start engine and run until full air pressure is reached. Listen for the dryer to purge (about 120 PSI).
3. Shut off the engine.
4. Release the parking brake by pushing in the yellow button (make sure you don't roll, and do NOT apply the brake pedal).
5. After the initial pressure drop, the system should not loose more than 2 PSI per minute.
6. Apply the brake pedal firmly (still with the parking brake OFF).
7. After the initial pressure drop, the system should not loose any more than 3 PSI per minute.
8. With the engine off, ignition on and parking brake off, rapidly pump the brake pedal to bleed down the air supply. During this stage you should watch for the warning light and buzzer at about 60 PSI and then the yellow button (parking brake) should pop out at about 30 PSI.
9. Restart the engine and build up air pressure again. While building up pressure, check how long it takes for pressure to go from 85 to 100 PSI at "cruising RPM". It should be less than 45 seconds.
Suggest you move the "Check Transmission Oil Level" to the end of the driving day, after you are parked and leveled, but before you shut down the engine. Unless it all runs out on the ground during the night, it will still be good the next morning.
Yes, checking transmission fluid level is done with the shift pad (driver's seat). But, the transmission must be up to operating temperature, so, indeed at a rest stop or end of the day on level ground.
To do this:
With transmission up to operating temperature, engine running, transmission on neutral, push the up and down arrows at the same time. The shift pad will start a count down and then display O-L and either a minus or plus number for number of quarts from proper level. This feature started sometime around 1996.
I would add the air brake test procedure.
There are several published procedures based on CDL license testing. This is how I was taught to do it:
1. Ensure air pressure is at governor cutout pressure (115-125 psi
2, Chock wheels and release park brake.
3. Observe air pressure does not drop more than 2 psi in one minute.
4. Press brake pedal and observe pressure drop does not drop more than 2 psi in one minute.
5. Pump brake pedal to reduce air pressure until low air pressure warning comes on at about 60 psi.
6. Continue to pump brake pedal to ensure park brake pops out at about 35 psi.
7. Start engine and see that air pressure reaches governor cutout pressure in 3-5 minutes.
8. Place transmission in drive and ensure parking brake holds when accelerating slightly.
9. Release parking brake and engage service brakes at low speed to ensure vehicle stops smoothly.
Takes about 5 minutes and ensure you can stop safely once you hit the road. If you live in Texas you have to demonstrate this before your Class B Exempt license road test☺
REVISED CHECKLIST IN ORIGINAL POST TO:
1. add air brake system check
2. move transmission level to check to end of day.
And, checking transmission fluid is not something that needs to be done daily. Level with change ONLY if:
Fluid is added
There is an external leak
Transmission cooler/radiator is compromised
This is not a suggested change - just a observation. In my experience, unless parked on a extreme slope, very few (if any) owners will bother to place chocks under the tires when they park. Laziness? Complacency? Over-confidence in parking brake? In my case, I guess it is all three...
I usually check each airbag for proper ride height before starting each day. I have a gauge cut from a piece of 1/4 in plywood which makes it easier. Thanks for the great list.
Jerrett
"In my experience, unless parked on a extreme slope, very few (if any) owners will bother to place chocks under the tires when they park." I chock the RF tire (easiest to get to) whenever we are parked and I will be out of the coach. I decided to do this after reading about a guy who was bringing home his new-to-him 'Bird. He stopped at a rest area and didn't chock the tires. When he came out his 'Bird was not where he left it and people were pointing. He went to see what they were pointing at and found his 'Bird - it had rolled over a cliff. The only injury was to his pride, but the coach was totaled.
1. Kick the tires (check inflation)
2. light the fire (start engine)
3. brief on guard (tell everybody "we are going")
4. 1st out out is lead (if traveling with an more that one)
ole Navy pilot check list
Yeah, but you had a plane captain/crew chief that made sure your bird was ready to fly. I don't have one of those☺
Looks like quite a complete check list. Most of this stuff is OK do do when you first start with your coach. You will,build some experience and confidence and then while the list remains, the frequency will change on most. And some items will go on the list that gets checked in the event of ... and every once in a while get up on the roof and make sure AC shrouds are secure and there is nothing lose or missing.
A walk around in the morning when you are leaving is a good practice. Are the bay doors closed and latched? Are all of the awings secured? Is the tow setup correct? Do you see anything out of the ordinary? Any fresh puddles under the coach?
And always do a visual check on tow lights, left, right, brake and tail.
When you stop during the day while driving do a walk around. Any puddles? Are any of the tires hot? Wheels hot?
With some time under your belt you will know what is normal for your coach. I check the engine oil, hyd oil and air pressure in every tire the night before we leave or the morning we leave. It only takes a few minutes and while doing it you look at the wheel wells, the air bags and the tires, the engine, belts etc for anything unexpected.
This is a good start to learning your coach, building confidence and understanding what is normal. It gets second nature pretty fast.
X2 all replies! I do the same, but as Roger said, once you get to know the coach, there is no need to do a Brett Wolfe inspection.
I do like the sign at a Park we were leaving from: "Thanks for staying. Have you checked your awnings, roof antennas and whether the DW and the dog are on board?" ^.^d
My coach does not have the RED light wait to start. I always waited for all of the gauges to finish sweeping then start. What am I missing?
John M.
John,
Maybe your bulb has burned out?
Trent
Where on my dash is it located? I've never seen it.
John M.
my BULB burnt out a long time ago !!!
now it just glows (in the dark)
It should be one of the row of messages at the bottom of your dash (I think).
Trent
I totally agree. Some of that list can be daily, some weekly and some even monthly. As you gain experience with your rig, you will be able to "feel" when things are right/wrong.
I would add a daily "walk around-- look and listen" to the list. Can be done at start up, at a rest area, lunch break or while DW is checking into the CG for the night. The reason-- very few thing go from "good" to "failed" without going through a "noise making" or "what is that fluid on the ground" stage.
John,
My 2000 U320 did not have a wait to start light either. I used the same procedure you use.
I will shine a flashlight along the bottom of message and see if I can see it. Will report in a few.
John M.
Not trying to hijack this thread with this topic. I did find the wait to start on the panel by shining a flashlight from the back. It is right next to the right turn signal. Their is a long circuit board from one end to the other on the message area. I'm not going to remove it yet. I will wait till Monday call Foretravel and see if I even have the light in service in that area. If I do, I will start another thread or write one of the moderators about moving my thread.
Thanks,
John M.
John,
Don't get all excited.
Your dash panel is a universal part for all models (U320, U295, U270) of FT. Obviously, coach components are NOT universal across all models. The 8.3's (depending upon year and configuration), may have intake manifold heaters. Those coaches with heaters have a temperature sensor in the manifold, that keeps the "Wait to start" light lit until the manifold reaches its target temperature. The temperature rapidly dissipates once the key is turned off (so those with 8.3's and the heaters, often cycle the key several times to further warm the intake manifold during cold starting conditions). Your engine does not have a manifold heater (as far as I know, none of the 11 liter engines do) and therefore the dash indication is "surplus" - not used for your coach.
HTH,
Neal
Thanks Neal. So when starting my engine am I doing the right thing by waiting for the gauges to cycle before starting the engine or can I instantly start the engine when inserting the key? I always wait on the gauges.
John M.
John,
I just checked my Foretravel Owners Manual, and you are off the hook.
On page 4-6 (Rev. 05-99) It says the following about that message:
Wait to Start (Red) (U270/U295 only)
Wait to start engine until red light goes out.
Trent
Maybe I ought to check my owners manual also and see what it says. These coaches are all new to me. 😎
Thanks,
John M
It's not the manly thing to do!
Trent
Hi John,
You are doing the right thing by allowing the Speedometer and Tachometer to cycle before engaging the starter.
The Speedometer and the Tachometer go through a calibration sequence each time they are powered on (key turned from OFF to RUN position). Although it MAY not damage either instrument by immediately engaging the starter, the starter draws enough current to cause the start battery bank voltage (and the whole start battery Vdc system throughout the coach, which includes the dash) to first, abruptly sag low, then spike high [when START position is released]. When the engine starts, we release the ignition key, which causes a break in the starting solenoid circuit. With the starting solenoid circuit opened, the starter solenoid's magnetic field collapses and the starter motor return spring pulls the starter drive shaft back off the ring gear. That opens the starter motor current contacts and starter motor current is automatically shut off. The collapse of the starter solenoid coil and the starter motor field create spikes in the start battery dc system that (without transient dissipation diodes being present -- all FT's by OEM design) cause failures in delicate instrumentation such as the Speedometer and Tachometer.
While all of this "sagging" and "spiking" is occurring, the Speedometer and Tachometer calibration values may well be corrupted or possibly the instruments damaged, IF the disruptions occur simultaneous with the sequence of the instruments calibrating themselves.
What happens when you go directly from key OFF to START?
- Well, the first possibility is somewhat innocuous. For that particular "ignition on" cycle, one or both of the instruments may be adversely affected and inaccurate, to one extent or another.
- The second possible result can be much more invasive and expensive: There are many instances of FT's losing their Stewart Warner Speedometers, multiple times, "for unknown reasons" (inaccurate indications, odometers failing to "ERROR" or scrambled characters, analog speeds becoming intermittent or exhibiting failed behavior, etc.). It would be hard to prove, but it only makes sense that rushing the ignition start sequence and superimposing these starting voltage swings and spikes on the instruments during their calibration sequence cannot be helpful. So, it's good practice to let them finish their calibration sequence, before engaging the starter.
- How would one prove that the OEM design (with no Starter solenoid and starter motor transient absorption diodes) is deficient? Well, the best way would be to prove (oscilloscope) that voltage transients actually do exist at the instruments and then subject the instruments to repeated similar voltage spike testing until failure occurs. Then draw appropriate conclusions.
- A more realistic option would be to power any failure prone instruments from their own dedicated battery and then specifically avoid any stray ground paths by using only hard wires from the instruments back to their dedicated battery negative terminal. Bet you dollars to donuts, that the instruments would not fail!
Ever wonder why FT's have multiple failures of SW instruments, while other brands use the same SW's without failures? The answer may lie in the OEM (lack of) starting circuits transient suppression diodes and "commoned-up" grounds at the dash, that are then just landed onto the coach frame, instead of hard wired back to the starting bank negative terminal.
All of the above is distinctly separate from and has nothing to do with the original question that you asked regarding the "Wait to Start" Red warning on the dash. The "Wait to Start" dash warning is strictly associated with allowing the intake manifold heater time enough to sufficiently prepare the manifold mixture for a cold weather start.
HTH,
Neal
Daily, I check one tire, bump it and the rest, Check the oil , light it, and turn on the 4 ways and headlights. Walk around check the lights , basement doors ,awnings, ant, and check any load is secure. Verify purge, pump the brakes a couple of times checking rebuild time.
Load CD player with"Majic Bus" first.
Preflight/ weekly, is more involved, drip check - checking all fluids, hubs, maybe re-torque the wheels, airfilter.
This may be a little obvious, but since you're making a checklist, check the inside. Doors latched, refrigerator closed, loose items secured, and all drawers checked. My last move I checked everything inside and out, and got to the first signal and looked over to see my soda sitting on the living room table. DOH!
Neal,
Regarding the Back EMF from the starter, would it be a good idea to place a hefty 16 or so volt crowbar across the battery terminals? Or even a huge diode in reverse polarity? Seems either one would reduce the spikes to the electrical system.
Jim
2002 U320
Hey Jim, finally found a bit of time to get back to you,
The better solution is to install a Schottky diode, but as close to the source of the EMF as possible.
Why a Schottky? Because a properly sized Schottky has by far the fastest response and the least voltage drop (therefore least heating) of the various diode options. Schottkys, when switched from reverse to forward bias, are several times faster and have far less resistance than silicone and zener diodes. Why aren't they used everywhere? Because they have far more leakage when reverse biased, so they are wasteful of their electrons.
Why as close as possible to the inductor (relay, motor, solenoid, etc.) that is causing the "EMF kick" (EMF field collapse)? Because then there will be the lowest chance of stray ground paths, perhaps even reverse currents through things like a Speedometer or Tachometer that is doing its "once per start calibration sequence" and various other Vdc lights/LEDs/loads/ control boards/ etc.
As you know, "Electromotive Force" (EMF) "backflow" damage occurs because when any inductor suddenly has its current flow shut off, it's electromotive force field (think magnetic field) resists current flow change and wants to keep the current flowing at exactly the same rate after as before shutoff. Now even if the inductor's EMF field was built from just a 12 Vdc power source and was built over time using a relatively small current flow, when you open that switch or contact (think of something with some robust current through it, like the starter solenoid contact) AND you don't provide a discharge flow path for the solenoid coil's EMF to dissipate, you have created a monster! The EMF can essentially instantaneously built to hundreds or even thousand's of volts until something GIVES. The something that normally GIVES is the arc that occurs across the relay/solenoid/motor starter/etc. relay contacts or switch contacts. I = E/R, right? If R goes to infinity (when the contact opens) and I (by Newton's Law and inductor rules) stays the same, that means E goes to infinity as well.
Now the potential may be very high in terms of volts, but it doesn't take much current (maybe just a fraction of an amp [tenths or hundredths of amps]) to collapse and dissipate the field. So, that's generally not fatal to the contacts, at least not until many repetitions, but transistors in Speedometers and any manner of other electronic devices are not as forgiving of the short but very powerful voltage spikes. So it is best to keep the dissipating diode as close to the inductor as possible so no other "stray" paths get a chance to become involved. Think in terms of "When it comes to inductor field dissipation", the reverse to forward bias switchover time must be fast (try to imagine shorter than instantaneous) and the length of the conductor(s) involved must be kept as short as possible to the EMF source. If you do that, the "EMF Kick" will be around 0.5Vdc and won't be felt anywhere further away than your connection leads.
Others had asked before about the random presence of ignition solenoid suppression diodes and our "members in the know" (Red Tractor - Ron) have correctly advised that FOT installed diodes when (at least) some coaches came back in for service.
Ignition Solonoid Question (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=32395.msg289683#msg289683)
Others, not recognizing the importance and not knowing what they don't know, were questioning why some ignition solenoids have diodes and others do not. Then, because not all coaches have them, the diodes were considered to be superfluous and were removed. BTW, some ignition solenoids have self-contained diodes. The diodes are there for good reason - don't remove them. Test them, yes, because they can fail to a shorted (example of Yetch's solenoid that he and Aubrey found would not reliabley start his coach) or an open condition. When they fail, they can cause the solenoid to either fail to fire (Yetch) or become electronically noisy when de-energized.
To answer Brett's request, later in that same thread, for an easy to understand answer and a part number for a Radio Shack diode that fits all relays and solenoids: unfortunately, there is no easy answer because while the Schottky is the
type of diode to use, too high a voltage rating (for the anticipated EMF potential and the current that the diode must be able to dissipate) and you will sacrifice efficiency (switching time and leakage), while too low a current rating and the diode will quickly lose all of its magic smoke, rendering it worthless.
A "Thumbrule", if you back me into a corner and promise not to tell, is to use a Schottky that is rated for about 4X the coil voltage and about 10X the coil current.
HTH,
Neal
Thanks Neal for all of the info.
John M.
Nweal,
Sounds as though I need to visit Digi-Key or Mouser to find Schottkys at those values.
Thanks for your analysis.
Jim