Title: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help
Post by: John Morales on October 26, 2017, 11:30:35 am
Post by: John Morales on October 26, 2017, 11:30:35 am
I have the Prosine 2.5. Last night In the middle of the night I was awakened by the sound of a clicking transfer switch while dry docked. Got up looked at my power panel flashing, turned on the monitor and the batteries were at 11.3 volts. I returned to the panel and turned off the inverter. Noise stops. Turned on the generator and powered up the coach for 2 hours. Panel looks normal no warnings. Turned off generator and the inverter light flashes and no inverter AC. Tried a few times with no luck. This morning still the same issue. After about 3 attempts of running the generator for about an hour and turning it off the inverter kicked on and I heard a loud click from under the bed.
My questions:
1. Why did it click in the middle of the night with 11.3 volts on the batteries?
2. Why wouldn't it reset?
3. Is the transfer switch going bad?
4. Does the inverter need more volts to run properly?
5. My manual states that a flashing inverter light means no load present. Is the transfer switch stuck open?
My take on this is, the transfer switch is going bad.
Thanks,
John M.
[edited topic title to add inverter brand/model - Michelle]
My questions:
1. Why did it click in the middle of the night with 11.3 volts on the batteries?
2. Why wouldn't it reset?
3. Is the transfer switch going bad?
4. Does the inverter need more volts to run properly?
5. My manual states that a flashing inverter light means no load present. Is the transfer switch stuck open?
My take on this is, the transfer switch is going bad.
Thanks,
John M.
[edited topic title to add inverter brand/model - Michelle]
Title: Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help
Post by: bbeane on October 26, 2017, 12:23:24 pm
Post by: bbeane on October 26, 2017, 12:23:24 pm
John are your batteries good, are the connections clean and tight? I would check all connections from the batteries to the inverter before going any farther,
Title: Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help
Post by: Tom Lang on October 26, 2017, 12:30:03 pm
Post by: Tom Lang on October 26, 2017, 12:30:03 pm
For starters, a left-on-overnight big inverter, even without any loads on, draws a ton of current. Too much battery drain to leave on unless necessary.
After the battery is drained too much, the inverter drops offline or simply goes haywire. If the battery drops too far, the ProSine may need s hard reset to work at all. This includes charging from the generator. Fortunately for you, the charger still worked.
Is there a reason for keeping the inverter on overnight? Maybe adding a small second inverter would help.
After the battery is drained too much, the inverter drops offline or simply goes haywire. If the battery drops too far, the ProSine may need s hard reset to work at all. This includes charging from the generator. Fortunately for you, the charger still worked.
Is there a reason for keeping the inverter on overnight? Maybe adding a small second inverter would help.
Title: Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help
Post by: John Morales on October 26, 2017, 01:11:45 pm
Post by: John Morales on October 26, 2017, 01:11:45 pm
Tom,
The reason I leave the inverter on overnight is because this coach has an ice maker that is on the inverter circuit. I wanted to remove the ice maker and get back the drawers that were removed or utilize the space. The wife insist on keeping the ice maker we don't use. We use it as freezer storage. I may have to make a case for the removal. A case I'm not going to win. We don't boon dock a lot, so I guess nothing goes into the ice maker while boon docking. I can then turn the inverter off. The main thing I use on the inverter is the tv, I am up late. I have 2 small 300 amp inverters, I could use one dedicated to the tv and shut the main inverter off. For now I shut will down the Uline ice maker and move everything to the RV freezer. I will be shutting down the inverter at night also.
Thanks for the help. It all makes sense.
John M.
The reason I leave the inverter on overnight is because this coach has an ice maker that is on the inverter circuit. I wanted to remove the ice maker and get back the drawers that were removed or utilize the space. The wife insist on keeping the ice maker we don't use. We use it as freezer storage. I may have to make a case for the removal. A case I'm not going to win. We don't boon dock a lot, so I guess nothing goes into the ice maker while boon docking. I can then turn the inverter off. The main thing I use on the inverter is the tv, I am up late. I have 2 small 300 amp inverters, I could use one dedicated to the tv and shut the main inverter off. For now I shut will down the Uline ice maker and move everything to the RV freezer. I will be shutting down the inverter at night also.
Thanks for the help. It all makes sense.
John M.
Title: Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help
Post by: ltg on October 26, 2017, 02:10:11 pm
Post by: ltg on October 26, 2017, 02:10:11 pm
For starters, a left-on-overnight big inverter, even without any loads on, draws a ton of current. Too much battery drain to leave on unless necessary.
My understanding is that the Prosine 2.5 Inverter/Charger has a load sense mode that only draws less than 3 watts when turned on, in stand by and no load is on. That would be approximately 6 amps in 24 hours. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.
.
Title: Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help
Post by: jcus on October 26, 2017, 02:19:16 pm
Post by: jcus on October 26, 2017, 02:19:16 pm
My understanding is that the Prosine 2.5 Inverter/Charger has a load sense mode that only draws less than 3 watts when turned on, in stand by and no load is on. That would be approximately 6 amps in 24 hours. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.
.
Title: Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help
Post by: Tim Fiedler on October 26, 2017, 02:24:28 pm
Post by: Tim Fiedler on October 26, 2017, 02:24:28 pm
Hmmm. Per AM solar, closer to 60 watts parasitic draw, time to search the web for specifications.
Best in class for 3K inverter is 17 watts (victron) 30 for Magnum If it was 3 watts I would have kept the ProSine for sure
Best in class for 3K inverter is 17 watts (victron) 30 for Magnum If it was 3 watts I would have kept the ProSine for sure
Title: Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help
Post by: ltg on October 26, 2017, 02:34:54 pm
Post by: ltg on October 26, 2017, 02:34:54 pm
Hmmm. Per AM solar, closer to 60 watts parasitic draw, time to search the web for specifications.
Best in class for 3K inverter is 17 watts (victron) 30 for Magnum If it was 3 watts I would have kept the ProSine for sure
Title: Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help
Post by: jcus on October 26, 2017, 02:37:59 pm
Post by: jcus on October 26, 2017, 02:37:59 pm
Hmmm. Per AM solar, closer to 60 watts parasitic draw, time to search the web for specifications.
Best in class for 3K inverter is 17 watts (victron) 30 for Magnum If it was 3 watts I would have kept the ProSine for sure
My next investment will be the Victron inverter.
Title: Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help
Post by: jcus on October 26, 2017, 02:54:00 pm
Post by: jcus on October 26, 2017, 02:54:00 pm
"To reduce battery draw even further, you can turn on Load Sense mode. In Load
Sense mode, the PROsine periodically sends out a search pulse to see whether a
load is present. If it finds a load, it will turn on. You can adjust the interval
between search pulses, and you can also adjust the load power at which the
PROsine will turn on"
Above quote from manual. Below my actual operating observations.
On mine load sense search pulse is actually turning on unit to sense a load. If above a certain setpoint, turn on completely.
Have tried many settings, but parasitic loads from tv, appliances etc either trigger it on or you must set the complete power on point so high, a light load will not do anything. Having my microwave and sat and tv, turn on and off every 30 sec is not acceptable.
Have also had a Outback inverter with same "load sense" feature and it acted the same way.
Probably okay for an inverter with only one big load on it, that is either on or off, but does not appear to work well with all the small parasitic loads we have on our coaches.
Sense mode, the PROsine periodically sends out a search pulse to see whether a
load is present. If it finds a load, it will turn on. You can adjust the interval
between search pulses, and you can also adjust the load power at which the
PROsine will turn on"
Above quote from manual. Below my actual operating observations.
On mine load sense search pulse is actually turning on unit to sense a load. If above a certain setpoint, turn on completely.
Have tried many settings, but parasitic loads from tv, appliances etc either trigger it on or you must set the complete power on point so high, a light load will not do anything. Having my microwave and sat and tv, turn on and off every 30 sec is not acceptable.
Have also had a Outback inverter with same "load sense" feature and it acted the same way.
Probably okay for an inverter with only one big load on it, that is either on or off, but does not appear to work well with all the small parasitic loads we have on our coaches.
Title: Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help
Post by: Tim Fiedler on October 26, 2017, 03:13:16 pm
Post by: Tim Fiedler on October 26, 2017, 03:13:16 pm
Larry. I have read the manual.
As others have stated, load sense not a fit for my usage pattern. Residential refrigerator and Sat receiver to name two items.
Do you use the load sense mode and if so what accomadations did you make to have it work for you?
As others have stated, load sense not a fit for my usage pattern. Residential refrigerator and Sat receiver to name two items.
Do you use the load sense mode and if so what accomadations did you make to have it work for you?
Title: Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help
Post by: jcus on October 26, 2017, 03:34:20 pm
Post by: jcus on October 26, 2017, 03:34:20 pm
I believe load sense pulse will read any load on system, even very small ones, and then inverter turns on, to determine size of load, if big enough, inverter will stay on to power it, if not, will shut down. This is how the Outback guy explained it me when I asked him about the rapid on/off operation.
Title: Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help
Post by: ltg on October 26, 2017, 03:42:53 pm
Post by: ltg on October 26, 2017, 03:42:53 pm
Tim, one of the earlier posters made a statement that even with no loads on, a large inverter draws too much watts to leave on overnight. I was merely stating that if there are no ac loads, then the inverter can be put in load sense mode and left on.
I was not talking about your inverter or how you use your motorhome, I was talking about the original poster and his Prosine 2.5.
I was not talking about your inverter or how you use your motorhome, I was talking about the original poster and his Prosine 2.5.
Title: Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help
Post by: jcus on October 26, 2017, 04:20:18 pm
Post by: jcus on October 26, 2017, 04:20:18 pm
Tim, one of the earlier posters made a statement that even with no loads on, a large inverter draws too much watts to leave on overnight. I was merely stating that if there are no ac loads, then the inverter can be put in load sense mode and left on.
I was not talking about your inverter or how you use your motorhome, I was talking about the original poster and his Prosine 2.5.
The OP probably has a tv and microwave so he could not use sense mode.
Title: Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help
Post by: Tim Fiedler on October 26, 2017, 04:31:44 pm
Post by: Tim Fiedler on October 26, 2017, 04:31:44 pm
I am wondering if anyone is using sense mode successfully in a FT, and how they make it work for them.
Title: Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help
Post by: John Morales on October 26, 2017, 04:34:07 pm
Post by: John Morales on October 26, 2017, 04:34:07 pm
On this coach they have the microwave, tv, and ice maker on the inverter. I'm not fond of the microwave being on the inverter. Just sitting idle puts a draw on the inverter. Can I remove the the microwave from the inverter circuit or just leave it? I've got the ice maker turned off for now. Still trying to convince the wife to get rid of it. I can live without it. This is why we kept our absorption refrigerator instead of going residential when it went out. We didn't want to rely on the inverter to keep it running. Question, when I connect to power either pedestal or generator it activates the inverter. If I set the load sense threshold to 0 will this stop it from coming on when the coach is powered up where I can start it manually when needed? Lastly, does the inverter have to be on to Charge the batteries in generator mode or will the generator charge the batteries alone? I'm new to all of this so I hope these are not stupid questions.
Thank you to everyone for the help,
John M
Thank you to everyone for the help,
John M
Title: Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help
Post by: jcus on October 26, 2017, 04:43:28 pm
Post by: jcus on October 26, 2017, 04:43:28 pm
John.
With shore or gen power, the invert section of your inverter is bypassed so you can leave that part on or off. It will not affect anything.
To charge batteries, charge button must be pushed. If not using ice maker or watching tv etc., just turn invert section off. All 12 v. equipment will still work and your inverter will not bring your batteries down. As stated above sense mode will not work for you.
With shore or gen power, the invert section of your inverter is bypassed so you can leave that part on or off. It will not affect anything.
To charge batteries, charge button must be pushed. If not using ice maker or watching tv etc., just turn invert section off. All 12 v. equipment will still work and your inverter will not bring your batteries down. As stated above sense mode will not work for you.
Title: Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help
Post by: ltg on October 26, 2017, 05:06:51 pm
Post by: ltg on October 26, 2017, 05:06:51 pm
Larry, in a motorhome there is always a load somewhere, tv's, sat receivers, stereos, microwaves, etc. Even when these items are turned off, they draw a small current which the inverter sees as a ac load. Now if you actually unplugged all these items, you might possibly have no ac loads. But if you do not unplug them, the inverter will see these small loads in sense mode and react as I explained above. My new LG energy efficient tv draws 14 watts while turned off.
The OP probably has a tv and microwave so he could not use sense mode.
Title: Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help
Post by: Tim Fiedler on October 26, 2017, 05:12:12 pm
Post by: Tim Fiedler on October 26, 2017, 05:12:12 pm
How would one run a residential refrigerator in load sense mode?
Title: Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help
Post by: jcus on October 26, 2017, 06:05:13 pm
Post by: jcus on October 26, 2017, 06:05:13 pm
I have no idea what kind of tv or microwave John has, but I do not believe that they draw enough watts in standby to trigger the sense mode to turn on the inverter. The sense mode can be set as high as 140 watts. In your case, that would be fourteen TV's.
In other words, the sense signal is sent out periodically and if it senses ANY load like a tv in standby, it will turn inverter on for a second so inverter can see how big the load is and either remain on or shut down.
If you had absolutely no other loads on the inverter it would work the way you say, but unfortunately we have many small loads on it.
There is a reason why inverters do not come set up in sense mode from the factory or in any motorhome or boat I have ever seen.
Title: Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help
Post by: ltg on October 26, 2017, 06:14:52 pm
Post by: ltg on October 26, 2017, 06:14:52 pm
Larry, in a motorhome there is always a load somewhere, tv's, sat receivers, stereos, microwaves, etc. Even when these items are turned off, they draw a small current which the inverter sees as a ac load. Now if you actually unplugged all these items, you might possibly have no ac loads. But if you do not unplug them, the inverter will see these small loads in sense mode and react as I explained above. My new LG energy efficient tv draws 14 watts while turned off.
The OP probably has a tv and microwave so he could not use sense mode.
Title: Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help
Post by: jcus on October 26, 2017, 06:45:03 pm
Post by: jcus on October 26, 2017, 06:45:03 pm
Jim, you are a lot more experienced than I am. I have no direct experience with the Prosine 2.5. If it is as you say, turns on and powers all ac loads to determine if they exceed the threshold before turning off, then it is only a viable setting if there are absolutely no ac loads. Sorry it took so long to get a handle on what you were saying.
Title: Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help
Post by: wantabe on October 26, 2017, 07:09:23 pm
Post by: wantabe on October 26, 2017, 07:09:23 pm
12 volt batteries are considered discharged at 12 volts or less. Deep cycle batteries recommend not to discharge more than 50% . The inverter may require 12+ volts to operate before it alarms and cuts off. Check the specs.
Wantabe
Wantabe
Title: Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help
Post by: ltg on October 27, 2017, 05:07:09 pm
Post by: ltg on October 27, 2017, 05:07:09 pm
I have the Prosine 2.5. Last night In the middle of the night I was awakened by the sound of a clicking transfer switch while dry docked. Got up looked at my power panel flashing, turned on the monitor and the batteries were at 11.3 volts. I returned to the panel and turned off the inverter. Noise stops. Turned on the generator and powered up the coach for 2 hours. Panel looks normal no warnings. Turned off generator and the inverter light flashes and no inverter AC. Tried a few times with no luck. This morning still the same issue. After about 3 attempts of running the generator for about an hour and turning it off the inverter kicked on and I heard a loud click from under the bed.
Thanks,
John M.
Title: Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help
Post by: John Morales on October 28, 2017, 12:47:08 pm
Post by: John Morales on October 28, 2017, 12:47:08 pm
Michelle,
Thanks for splitting my post. I had given up on trying to get information on resolving my inverter issues. Looking for help with my inverter turned in to an invasion of the inverter gurus sharing their vast knowledge and experiences. I didnt want to be rude and interfere with their posts because it was still valuable information for those looking to upgrade their inverter and upgrade to solar. I thank Roger Engdahl for stepping in. He tried to salvage my post and bring it back to the original questions, but the momentum was too great. Just wondering, in the future can I split-off my own post if this happens again, or do I need to contact you or another moderator?
Thanks,
John M.
Thanks for splitting my post. I had given up on trying to get information on resolving my inverter issues. Looking for help with my inverter turned in to an invasion of the inverter gurus sharing their vast knowledge and experiences. I didnt want to be rude and interfere with their posts because it was still valuable information for those looking to upgrade their inverter and upgrade to solar. I thank Roger Engdahl for stepping in. He tried to salvage my post and bring it back to the original questions, but the momentum was too great. Just wondering, in the future can I split-off my own post if this happens again, or do I need to contact you or another moderator?
Thanks,
John M.
Title: Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help
Post by: Michelle on October 28, 2017, 12:55:22 pm
Post by: Michelle on October 28, 2017, 12:55:22 pm
Michelle,
Thanks for splitting my post.
Just wondering, in the future can I split-off my own post if this happens again, or do I need to contact you or another moderator?
John - only a moderator or facilitator can split topics. You can either contact one of us directly or use the "Report to Moderator" button on one of the wandering posts to ask for a split.
Michelle
Title: Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help
Post by: jcus on October 28, 2017, 12:58:16 pm
Post by: jcus on October 28, 2017, 12:58:16 pm
Michelle,
Thanks for splitting my post. I had given up on trying to get information on resolving my inverter issues. Looking for help with my inverter turned in to an invasion of the inverter gurus sharing their vast knowledge and experiences. I didnt want to be rude and interfere with their posts because it was still valuable information for those looking to upgrade their inverter and upgrade to solar. I thank Roger Engdahl for stepping in. He tried to salvage my post and bring it back to the original questions, but the momentum was too great. Just wondering, in the future can I split-off my own post if this happens again, or do I need to contact you or another moderator?
Thanks,
John M.
I am one of the offenders, but after all that talk, maybe you could tell us your present situation, It seems you tried it several times and finally the inverter restarted? Did your batteries charge up when running generator? [This would indicate charger section is working] I think we have established your batteries went dead because of inverter and icemaker loads. What is your present situation?
Title: Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help
Post by: John Morales on October 28, 2017, 03:31:16 pm
Post by: John Morales on October 28, 2017, 03:31:16 pm
Jim,
First thanks for getting back to me.
This morning with the inverter off over the night my volts on the Javalina Monitor was at 12.6v from 13.4v before going to bed. I tried starting the inverter, it would go through sense mode scanning for a load and nothing. Inverter light stays on flashing which means no load. This morning I ran for 4 hours, the Javalina stated 14.1v . After shutting generator Javalina said 13.4v. When I shut the generator off after 4 hours the inverter should have come on and it didn't. In the past after trying the gen off and on the inverter would come. I have 2 ATS. One is for the inverter correct? If the ATS was not closing properly leaving the contacts open will the Inverter not sense a load? I want to look at the ATS but I don't know which one is for the inverter. Are they labeled?
Also after 4 hours the charge light never went off on the inverter meaning it was still charging. How long does it take to charge 3 8D gell cell batteries on the generator. Also if one of my batteries is bad it may never get up to the charge capacity. I need to get out there and test the batteries. I have the Harbor Freight 100A load tester but I was going to see about purchasing the Digital Analyzer to test the condition of the batteries.
Still trying to pin point the exact problem. I am still able to function, just a little struggle.
John M
First thanks for getting back to me.
This morning with the inverter off over the night my volts on the Javalina Monitor was at 12.6v from 13.4v before going to bed. I tried starting the inverter, it would go through sense mode scanning for a load and nothing. Inverter light stays on flashing which means no load. This morning I ran for 4 hours, the Javalina stated 14.1v . After shutting generator Javalina said 13.4v. When I shut the generator off after 4 hours the inverter should have come on and it didn't. In the past after trying the gen off and on the inverter would come. I have 2 ATS. One is for the inverter correct? If the ATS was not closing properly leaving the contacts open will the Inverter not sense a load? I want to look at the ATS but I don't know which one is for the inverter. Are they labeled?
Also after 4 hours the charge light never went off on the inverter meaning it was still charging. How long does it take to charge 3 8D gell cell batteries on the generator. Also if one of my batteries is bad it may never get up to the charge capacity. I need to get out there and test the batteries. I have the Harbor Freight 100A load tester but I was going to see about purchasing the Digital Analyzer to test the condition of the batteries.
Still trying to pin point the exact problem. I am still able to function, just a little struggle.
John M
Title: Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help
Post by: jcus on October 28, 2017, 03:46:17 pm
Post by: jcus on October 28, 2017, 03:46:17 pm
Jim,
First thanks for getting back to me.
This morning with the inverter off over the night my volts on the Javalina Monitor was at 12.6v from 13.4v before going to bed. I tried starting the inverter, it would go through sense mode scanning for a load and nothing. Inverter light stays on flashing which means no load. This morning I ran for 4 hours, the Javalina stated 14.1v . After shutting generator Javalina said 13.4v. When I shut the generator off after 4 hours the inverter should have come on and it didn't. In the past after trying the gen off and on the inverter would come. I have 2 ATS. One is for the inverter correct? If the ATS was not closing properly leaving the contacts open will the Inverter not sense a load? I want to look at the ATS but I don't know which one is for the inverter. Are they labeled?
Also after 4 hours the charge light never went off on the inverter meaning it was still charging. How long does it take to charge 3 8D gell cell batteries on the generator. Also if one of my batteries is bad it may never get up to the charge capacity. I need to get out there and test the batteries. I have the Harbor Freight 100A load tester but I was going to see about purchasing the Digital Analyzer to test the condition of the batteries.
Still trying to pin point the exact problem. I am still able to function, just a little struggle.
John M
Contactor should shift sp/gen to inverter side with a clunk. Just checked mine, if inverter off on remote panel, it will not come on with loss of shorepower, you must turn it on.
I would not even mess with sense settings till you get regular operation figured out.
Title: Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help
Post by: John Morales on October 28, 2017, 04:03:55 pm
Post by: John Morales on October 28, 2017, 04:03:55 pm
Jim,
No SP/GenP. Inverter still does not come on when I manually start. Goes through cycle and still no load. Also, not knowing how the sense load is set up, I have the microwave and ice maker disconnected. Don't know if that makes a difference. In my coach the bottom ATS goes to the sub panel. I opened it up and noticed 2 sets of contacts. I've been trying to get it to start all morning and nothing.
John M.
No SP/GenP. Inverter still does not come on when I manually start. Goes through cycle and still no load. Also, not knowing how the sense load is set up, I have the microwave and ice maker disconnected. Don't know if that makes a difference. In my coach the bottom ATS goes to the sub panel. I opened it up and noticed 2 sets of contacts. I've been trying to get it to start all morning and nothing.
John M.
Title: Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help
Post by: red tractor on October 28, 2017, 04:06:50 pm
Post by: red tractor on October 28, 2017, 04:06:50 pm
Have you tried plugging in a 120 volt light into an outlet so the inverter can sense a load? That would tell you if it is working and you would not have to worry about damage to the microwave.
Title: Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help
Post by: jcus on October 28, 2017, 04:14:42 pm
Post by: jcus on October 28, 2017, 04:14:42 pm
Jim,
No SP/GenP. Inverter still does not come on when I manually start. Goes through cycle and still no load. Also, not knowing how the sense load is set up, I have the microwave and ice maker disconnected. In my coach the bottom ATS goes to the sub panel. I've been trying to get it to start all morning and nothing.
John M.
Title: Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help
Post by: John Morales on October 28, 2017, 04:36:06 pm
Post by: John Morales on October 28, 2017, 04:36:06 pm
Jim,
No fault codes. I removed the cover from the ATS. I had the wife turn on the generator. The contacts on the left in the bottom. ATS energized nothing on the right side . Is that right contact the one for the inverters? It did nothing when the generator started.
Red Tractor,
I plugged in my blender and induction burner and still no sense on the inverter with SP/GenP off.
John M.
No fault codes. I removed the cover from the ATS. I had the wife turn on the generator. The contacts on the left in the bottom. ATS energized nothing on the right side . Is that right contact the one for the inverters? It did nothing when the generator started.
Red Tractor,
I plugged in my blender and induction burner and still no sense on the inverter with SP/GenP off.
John M.
Title: Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help
Post by: Jim Frerichs on October 28, 2017, 05:03:34 pm
Post by: Jim Frerichs on October 28, 2017, 05:03:34 pm
You might try doing a soft reset....shut off the Prosine with the very small on/off switch on the side of the unit. Wait 10 minutes before turning it back on.
If that does not help, then try a hard reset...disconnect the 120 AC power and also remove both the 12 volt connections for 10 minutes.
Jim
2002 U320
If that does not help, then try a hard reset...disconnect the 120 AC power and also remove both the 12 volt connections for 10 minutes.
Jim
2002 U320
Title: Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help
Post by: jcus on October 28, 2017, 05:04:19 pm
Post by: jcus on October 28, 2017, 05:04:19 pm
Jim,
No fault codes. I removed the cover from the ATS. I had the wife turn on the generator. The contacts on the left in the bottom. ATS energized nothing on the right side . Is that right contact the one for the inverters? It did nothing when the generator started.
Red Tractor,
I plugged in my blender and induction burner and still no sense on the inverter with SP/GenP off.
John M.
On inverter, appears only way to go to load sensing mode is through dipswitches, If you haven't messed with them you are still probably in regular mode. Had a heart-interface one time that would hang up, and only way to reset was to remove one 12 volt lead on inverter, this will give you a hard reset. I would secure sp, turn inverter section off and disconnect one lead to inverter for 30 seconds. You will get a small spark when you reconnect as caps fill but thats all.
Title: Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help
Post by: John Morales on October 28, 2017, 05:28:15 pm
Post by: John Morales on October 28, 2017, 05:28:15 pm
Both Jim's,
On the ATS contact switch on the left energized, right nothing with generator powered up. Power off on generator contact switch on left de-energized, right nothing. I will try and reset the inverter and se what goes.
John M.
On the ATS contact switch on the left energized, right nothing with generator powered up. Power off on generator contact switch on left de-energized, right nothing. I will try and reset the inverter and se what goes.
John M.
Title: Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help
Post by: jcus on October 28, 2017, 05:46:40 pm
Post by: jcus on October 28, 2017, 05:46:40 pm
Both Jim's,
On the ATS contact switch on the left energized, right nothing with generator powered up. Power off on generator contact switch on left de-energized, right nothing. I will try and reset the inverter and se what goes.
John M.
What some people have done is move wires going to inverter breaker panel directly to wires coming in from inverter [assuming inverter works] and just dead ending wires coming from gen/sp. This will run your inverter panel on inverter and batteries only, but will be okay because battery charger section will be charging batteries. Other people just remove contactor and install manual switch to allow either sp/gen or inverter.
Title: Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on October 28, 2017, 06:07:06 pm
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on October 28, 2017, 06:07:06 pm
I removed both ATS boxes from our coach. The shore power/generator ATS was replaced by a Blue Sea manual switch. The inverter ATS function was taken over by our Magnum MS2812. The Magnum switches back and forth instantly and seamlessly between shore/gen AC and inverter function as required. Our inverter and battery charger are on 24/7. Couldn't be any simpler or easier.
Title: Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on October 28, 2017, 06:08:25 pm
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on October 28, 2017, 06:08:25 pm
John, do you have two ATSs? One will be above the other one at the foot of the bed if it is similar to mine. The upper one is landline or generator. The lower one is inverter or landline/generator.
If the inverter is actually inverting then if you have a 120 volt non-contact voltage detector you should be able to sense 120v on the output wires from the inverter. These beep beep beep when close to wires that have 120v.
Sperry Instruments VD6505 Adjustable Non-Contact Voltage Sensor, 12-1000V... (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000GLAC5G/ref=asc_df_B000GLAC5G5237993/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=394997&creativeASIN=B000GLAC5G&linkCode=df0&hvadid=193994910693&hvpos=1o15&hvnetw=g&hvrand=9032189827181380789&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=t&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9019490&hvtargid=pla-312993009302)
You can get these at most hardware stores.
Start with the easy stuff.
If the inverter is actually inverting then if you have a 120 volt non-contact voltage detector you should be able to sense 120v on the output wires from the inverter. These beep beep beep when close to wires that have 120v.
Sperry Instruments VD6505 Adjustable Non-Contact Voltage Sensor, 12-1000V... (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000GLAC5G/ref=asc_df_B000GLAC5G5237993/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=394997&creativeASIN=B000GLAC5G&linkCode=df0&hvadid=193994910693&hvpos=1o15&hvnetw=g&hvrand=9032189827181380789&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=t&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9019490&hvtargid=pla-312993009302)
You can get these at most hardware stores.
Start with the easy stuff.
Title: Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on October 29, 2017, 08:10:25 am
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on October 29, 2017, 08:10:25 am
On the ATS contact switch on the left energized, right nothing with generator powered up. Power off on generator contact switch on left de-energized, right nothing.
It sure sounds to me like half of your ATS box is not functioning. If you do decide that is the problem, it should be possible to replace the non-functioning component, rather than the whole box. I don't know which way would be easier...depends on how much working room you have. Link below to a example of replacing the component. It may not be the same ATS as you have, but the basic mechanical steps should be similar.
Replacing a Transfer Relay (http://beamalarm.com/Documents/replacing_a_transfer_relay.html)
Title: Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help
Post by: John Morales on October 29, 2017, 11:42:48 am
Post by: John Morales on October 29, 2017, 11:42:48 am
We'll,
Yesterday I tried to get the inverter started with no luck. Towards the end of the day turned off salesman switch and removed the DC power cables to the inverter. I waited about ten minutes and reconnected. Turn salesman switch on and tried to start the inverter and nothing. Tried running the generator a while and turned off to see if switches nothing. By the time Roger posted it was getting dark so I set the project aside till today. I took Rogers advice at went Lowe's to get the circuit tester.
This morning the batteries were at 12.9v, I started the generator ran it for about 1.5 hours till it was time to go to church. I turned off the generator and the crazy inverter kicked in and the ATS energized. That ATS hums while energized, don't know why. Stumped, the only thing I can think of is that when I initially had the problem where the batteries were getting low, I took Tom's advice and shut the inverter down. Also, I shut down the ULINE and microwave so that the tv would be the only device on the inverter running. That being said, after reading the manual and learning about load sense I feel the my inverter may be set at a high load sense to accommodate the three appliances. With me pulling the microwave and ULINE I created a much smaller load. Last night before bed I ran the generator turned on the tv, microwave, and the induction burner had diner and watched some tv. When I was done I turned the generator. So this morning when I woke up these items were still online. So maybe when I turned off the generator tho Morning their was enough load to kick in the inverter.
Don't know if this analysis is correct, just my observation. I'm still unsure but will keep trying.
Thanks for your help,
John M.
Yesterday I tried to get the inverter started with no luck. Towards the end of the day turned off salesman switch and removed the DC power cables to the inverter. I waited about ten minutes and reconnected. Turn salesman switch on and tried to start the inverter and nothing. Tried running the generator a while and turned off to see if switches nothing. By the time Roger posted it was getting dark so I set the project aside till today. I took Rogers advice at went Lowe's to get the circuit tester.
This morning the batteries were at 12.9v, I started the generator ran it for about 1.5 hours till it was time to go to church. I turned off the generator and the crazy inverter kicked in and the ATS energized. That ATS hums while energized, don't know why. Stumped, the only thing I can think of is that when I initially had the problem where the batteries were getting low, I took Tom's advice and shut the inverter down. Also, I shut down the ULINE and microwave so that the tv would be the only device on the inverter running. That being said, after reading the manual and learning about load sense I feel the my inverter may be set at a high load sense to accommodate the three appliances. With me pulling the microwave and ULINE I created a much smaller load. Last night before bed I ran the generator turned on the tv, microwave, and the induction burner had diner and watched some tv. When I was done I turned the generator. So this morning when I woke up these items were still online. So maybe when I turned off the generator tho Morning their was enough load to kick in the inverter.
Don't know if this analysis is correct, just my observation. I'm still unsure but will keep trying.
Thanks for your help,
John M.
Title: Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on October 29, 2017, 11:59:01 am
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on October 29, 2017, 11:59:01 am
That ATS hums while energized, don't know why.
The ATS "hum" is not necessarily a problem. It is just the nature of some types of ATS. There are ATS units that supposedly do not make the humming noise. Search "ATS humming" on the Forum for pertinent threads, such as:
Humming sound while running on battery power (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=31619).
30 amp transfer switch HUMMING! (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=28806).
Title: Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help
Post by: John Morales on October 29, 2017, 03:41:00 pm
Post by: John Morales on October 29, 2017, 03:41:00 pm
Well, I've been driving through Tennessee on our way to Pigeon Forge to meet up with Traveling Man. and for the last couple of hours I've been thinking about this whole inverter issue and how it works. The wife is driving now so I can take time to put down my thoughts together. Sorry, but when I have a problem my brains just won't stop working till the issue is resolved. Sometimes I have to walk away and just think, but I never give up. I will do whatever it take to find a solution.
Feel free to set me straight on this issue. For the last two days I've been reading, thinking and analyzing this whole issue.
1. My inverter has the load sense set up most likely at a high level to accommodate the appliances I have on my sub-panel, microwave, tv and ULINE ice maker.
2. When the coach is on SP or GenP appliances are connected therefore creating a load. So when I get ready to disconnect from SP or GenP the the inverter quickly senses the load and makes the decision to switch to inverter power without interruption. Though sometimes I feel our ATS is somewhat slow in switching which could be an issue on our appliances.
3. Lastly, SP, GenP and inverter power off. If I try to start the inverter from this position it will never switch start creating AC no matter how much I try. It comes on, scans for existing loads and finds none and goes to standby mode. Which is why the inverter light flashes. At this stage I can plug in a million things and the inverter will never turn on. Why, because appliances have to be on to create a load that can be sensed.
4. If I disable the load sense function I really don't know how the inverter is going to function. My guess is that when I turn off SP or GenP the inverter will not start automatically because we told it not to sense a load so therefore now I have to start the inverter manually.
What I have found in the past is when I'm in inverter mode no SP or GenP I can turn the inverter on and off and it will work flawlessly. Why, I'm thinking that there is some residual load still stored in those devices allowing me to turn the inverter on and off like that. It also explains why when turning the inverter off at night before bed allows the the residual power to clear and in the morning I am not able to turn on the inverter because their is no load to sense.
I'm not sure about number 4 but that is what I've concluded. Now I can use the inverter gurus to help me on this this entire analogy and clear me on the entire thought process. And if when boon docking is it better to turn off the load sense. Whew! That was a brain fryer 😜 😎.
Thanks,
John M.
Feel free to set me straight on this issue. For the last two days I've been reading, thinking and analyzing this whole issue.
1. My inverter has the load sense set up most likely at a high level to accommodate the appliances I have on my sub-panel, microwave, tv and ULINE ice maker.
2. When the coach is on SP or GenP appliances are connected therefore creating a load. So when I get ready to disconnect from SP or GenP the the inverter quickly senses the load and makes the decision to switch to inverter power without interruption. Though sometimes I feel our ATS is somewhat slow in switching which could be an issue on our appliances.
3. Lastly, SP, GenP and inverter power off. If I try to start the inverter from this position it will never switch start creating AC no matter how much I try. It comes on, scans for existing loads and finds none and goes to standby mode. Which is why the inverter light flashes. At this stage I can plug in a million things and the inverter will never turn on. Why, because appliances have to be on to create a load that can be sensed.
4. If I disable the load sense function I really don't know how the inverter is going to function. My guess is that when I turn off SP or GenP the inverter will not start automatically because we told it not to sense a load so therefore now I have to start the inverter manually.
What I have found in the past is when I'm in inverter mode no SP or GenP I can turn the inverter on and off and it will work flawlessly. Why, I'm thinking that there is some residual load still stored in those devices allowing me to turn the inverter on and off like that. It also explains why when turning the inverter off at night before bed allows the the residual power to clear and in the morning I am not able to turn on the inverter because their is no load to sense.
I'm not sure about number 4 but that is what I've concluded. Now I can use the inverter gurus to help me on this this entire analogy and clear me on the entire thought process. And if when boon docking is it better to turn off the load sense. Whew! That was a brain fryer 😜 😎.
Thanks,
John M.
Title: Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help
Post by: jcus on October 29, 2017, 04:17:28 pm
Post by: jcus on October 29, 2017, 04:17:28 pm
If you think it is your load sense put dip switch 7&8 in the up position, this will disable it. Do not know about you, but I like to be able to turn my inverter on and off when I want to.
Title: Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help
Post by: John Morales on October 29, 2017, 07:40:15 pm
Post by: John Morales on October 29, 2017, 07:40:15 pm
I think that is the way I am going to go also. Just wasn't sure how this entire system worked. We will turn it off when we get to our campsite in Sevierville, TN.
Thanks,
John M.
Thanks,
John M.
Title: Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help
Post by: Michelle on October 29, 2017, 08:12:09 pm
Post by: Michelle on October 29, 2017, 08:12:09 pm
Don't forget, if you don't have the manual it's here in the Forum Media section
Title: Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help
Post by: John Morales on October 29, 2017, 08:26:57 pm
Post by: John Morales on October 29, 2017, 08:26:57 pm
Michelle,
Thanks! I have all of the manuals on board with me.
John M.
Thanks! I have all of the manuals on board with me.
John M.
Title: Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help
Post by: ltg on October 29, 2017, 08:29:55 pm
Post by: ltg on October 29, 2017, 08:29:55 pm
If, the inverter is turned on, not the battery charger, but the inverter and the ATS's are working properly and the batteries are charged up, the inverter will come on. It will come on no matter where the load sense is on or off. If the load sense is turned on, the inverter will determine the ac load. If the load is below the load that is set with the load sense, the inverter will go into sleep mode. If the ac load is above the load set with the load sense, the inverter will power up and run the ac load. If yours is not working this way, then there is a problem with the inverter or the ATS switches. In other words, the inverter has to be turned on to work. It does not matter how the load sense function is set. The load sense does not work if the inverter is turned off. The inverter can be turned on and off with the load sense turned off just as it can turned on and off with the load sense turned on.
When some appliances such as a microwave or a tv are plugged in but not turned on, they are in standby mode. When the load sense is turned on, and the sense is set above the watts they are drawing, the inverter will not power on. Sometimes, it is necessary to turn on another appliance to activate the inverter and then the tv or microwave can be turned on. Other wise, the inverter will turn on, recognize that the watts are below the sense load setting, and then go into sleep mode.
When some appliances such as a microwave or a tv are plugged in but not turned on, they are in standby mode. When the load sense is turned on, and the sense is set above the watts they are drawing, the inverter will not power on. Sometimes, it is necessary to turn on another appliance to activate the inverter and then the tv or microwave can be turned on. Other wise, the inverter will turn on, recognize that the watts are below the sense load setting, and then go into sleep mode.
Title: Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help
Post by: ltg on October 29, 2017, 10:05:46 pm
Post by: ltg on October 29, 2017, 10:05:46 pm
4. If I disable the load sense function I really don't know how the inverter is going to function. My guess is that when I turn off SP or GenP the inverter will not start automatically because we told it not to sense a load so therefore now I have to start the inverter manually.