I have a 1992 Granville with air throttle. The other day stepped on throttle and it quit - Pedal goes down but air did not work throttle. Have it in a repair shop and they tracked it down to the part below. It is in the engine compartment. It appears air is getting to the part but does not translate to any throttle movement. does anyone know what the part is and any suggestions on how to fix or a replacement . Thanks
Check and make sure the cable is not broken.
It is a Bendix air throttle cylinder. There are kits for overhauling them if it is not a bad cable.
Thanks Brett - will look at that tomorrow
If the cable is ok then take this cylinder apart and clean it out then apply a thin coat of synthetic grease to the walls of it and parts then rebuild. I had same issue with a 94 Gv and finally fixed it by doing this. I also had it stick in the open position and could not slow revs down to stop.
JohnH
Howard,
I have had some experience with the Bendix cruise control and throttle system. I had to restore my throttle cable, because it was deteriorating from the high engine compartment heat. Parts for this system can be VERY hard to find. I was lucky enough to locate rebuild kits for the CC-5 air cylinder, including a brand new potentiometer. These parts I found after a long search on eBay. I have not used the kits yet, because my system is still operating well - I'm saving the parts for a future rebuild when necessary. You should periodically search eBay for "Bendix Cruise Control". You might luck out and find some good stuff!
The link below will lead you to the best collection of information available anywhere on the Web. it was put together by the Blue Bird Wanderlodge owners forum, because their old coaches also use this system. Pay particular attention to the .pdf files. The last .pdf on the list is where you should start looking for info. Note that the system used on our coaches is a modification of the original Bendix cruise control. Foretravel added a couple extra valves to combine the air throttle with the cruise control. You won't see the Foretravel air throttle mentioned in the Bendix literature.
I will add a copy of a "marked up" diagram I made of the cruise control, showing the added components that provide the throttle control.
http://www.wanderlodgegurus.com/database/?m&dir=Chassis/Cruise%20Control/Bendix%20Cruise
For additional info, you can also search for "Bendix Cruise Control" on the Wanderlodge Gurus Forum search page:
Wanderlodge Gurus - The Member Funded Wanderlodge Forum - Search (http://www.wanderlodgegurus.com/search.php)
John and Chuck - thank you.
FIndiTParts lists a rebuild kit for the CC-5 air cylinder. There is not much in this kit - just a few O-rings, a plastic "wear" ring, and some assembly lube. If you can find one, it would be nice to have on hand in case you need to replace any of the "soft" parts during a CC-5 cylinder rebuild. I'm betting if you call them you will find it is on back order, but I could be wrong. It would be worth a try!
BX102315 by BENDIX - MAINTENANCE KIT (https://www.finditparts.com/products/8145092/bendix-bx102315)
The Bendix 101951 potentiometer and spring assembly (the blue thing on the end of the cylinder) is not included in the CC-5 rebuild kit. Below is a small photo of the kit from the order receipt when I ordered mine on eBay (in July, 2016):
Howard,
In case you find your problem is, like Brett mentioned, in the throttle cable here is a little info from my experience. Best case scenario would be that your cable has simply become "unconnected" at either end, and can be reattached. The worst case would be a broken cable, because my search has never turned up any source for a replacement. :'(
What happened on my coach was the external cable sheath disintegrated from exposure to engine compartment heat. When the throttle cable was pulled by the CC-5 air cylinder, the frayed cable housing was flexing, so that the wire cable was not moving the throttle linkage the correct amount. I caught this problem before the last remaining inner lining came apart, and was able to rebuild the outer housing to "as good as new" condition. This restored the proper operation of my throttle (and cruise control).
Details in link below:
Williams Controls WM453109 Air Throttle Valve (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=27762.msg229090#msg229090)
Thanks Brett, Chuck and John - I have spoken with the mechanic (I am not there) and it may be a broken cable, although we are working on getting rebuild kit also. Under the worst case scenario what does one do when no part exists or one can't be found. Are there alternatives or replacement equipment - or do you wind up selling your fore travel for parts (sad face)
A good tech may suggest alternate solution, as it's a fairly simple function. And then there's salvage vehicles. Does it really need a cable or can the linear actuator be moved with a couple of fabricated brackets?
If your
cruise control is inoperative, there are replacement systems that can take over that function. However, most of the ones I've read about still require the
CC-5 air cylinder and
throttle cable to operate the engine throttle lever. I did find one reference to a replacement throttle control setup that might be adaptable to your coach. See link below:
Air Throttle (http://www.coachconversioncentral.com/airthrottle.htm)
Once you know exactly what parts are "broken" on your coach, then you will have a better idea how to proceed. I would suggest spending some time reading all you can about the cruise control/air throttle, both on this Forum and on the Blue Bird forums. You may come across some solution to your problem.
Here are some threads from our Forum to get you started:
removing bendix cruise control on my U225 (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=28403).
Air throttle on our coach? (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=27865).
The cable on my Bendix throttle broke from chafing this summer. I purchased a replacement cable from Foretravel. The cable was a bit shorter than the original but all I had to do was move the the throttle assembly. Was not difficult. I posted the failure and solution on the Forum.
Roland
Here is the Forum link No throttle or cruise control 1993 u280 40 foot (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=31223.msg279288#msg279288)
Hope the link works.
Roland
Roland,
The link works fine. Curse my oldheimers! I forgot all about you replacing that cable - this will be a big help to Howard, I am sure. ^.^d
Note To All: Be sure to read through the complete thread linked by Roland above. Contains a CLASSIC photo of "Drive By Rope".
Again, thanks to all. Good move on the cable Roland. I am sure with the help you all have given we will find a solution. Still waiting to hear from mechanic if cable is broken - sure would feel better if it isn't. Thanks again
Don't keep us in suspense. Did you get the problem resolved.
Roland
The RV is in Texas and I am in Nevada, but the mechanic, (certainly not a foretravel specialist or a Air throttle expert) believes it is just the cc5 cylinder and will be doing a rebuild this week. They say the cable is not broken, hope they are right. So as of right now its not fixed. I can only hope the cc-5 kit is all it needs. Will update and / or have more questions once they do the rebuilt.
The suspense is killing me too (smiley face but I do not know how to do that)
: - )
: - )
Or emoticon above. :D
Howard, maybe all he needs to do is what I suggested at first. Take apart and grease inside of cylinder and parts- rebuild and test.
JohnH
John I am thinking (and hoping) you may be right. Hard to believe anything could ever be a simple fix -
and still can't figure out how to get that smiley face emoticon in my post :D Thats what I get when I hit the smiley face emoticon
Latest update on air throttle problem. Mechanic rebuilt the cc5 cylinder (he swore that was the problem), but it turned out the cable is broken. So now on the look out for a new cable (that probably does not exist) or having one fabricated (if possible).
Your cable options have been explained (earlier posts). I'd be on the lookout for a new mechanic.
Your solution is in this thread see replies 13 and 14. And I second the new mechanic suggestion. The reason I say this is that it is not just a matter of replacing the cable but diagnosing and fixing the reason for the failure. Mine was chafing which I resolved.
Roland
Both you guys are right - I have been using your suggestions and reviewing earlier posts and have no doubt that with the help given I will resolve the issue. Based on several earlier posts I checked the cable and told the mechanic I thought it was the cable, but I was unable to spend anymore time with them other then to pass on my thoughts.
As for the mechanic, I was kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place. Broke down on I45 in Spring TX - I 45 is a major traffic jam all the time so not a great place to be. It was late Friday afternoon and needed to get off the road and to someplace for repairs all in the one tow my tow insurance covers. These guys were the only RV repair facility nearby (at least that I was aware of).
Unfortunately we were on our way home (Nevada) from Texas and had a deadline as to when we had to be back. I was unable to stay in Texas and am unable to get back until after Christmas so I was not able to do any overseeing - but I have been able to share all your good info with the mechanic - who had said they weren't all that familiar with the air throttle system - but they were very positive that they would fix it somehow. I believe with all your help that I have been able to share with them, they will get it done. But I will probably be paying them for some OTJ training. I really should be paying you guys.
Again, thanks everyone for the help. I will let you know how things turn out, where we find parts or have things fabricated so others may have the info.
Inner cable or shroud? My outer shroud was cracked and the inner cable moved too much. Some engineering repaired the outer for better function.
Howard,
Thanks for clarifying your situation. Now that I know the circumstances surrounding your breakdown, I understand your dilemma. We (the members on this Forum) may sometimes sound like we're getting impatient or aggravated when we respond to another member's problem. We don't mean to sound that way. We just really hate to hear about someone who is (we assume) being taken advantage of by inept mechanics or repair shops. We may see a problem as being very simple or easy to handle, either because we have "been there, done that", or because we have first hand knowledge of a proven solution.
In your position, however, what might be a simple problem becomes more complex. You are having to deal with it remotely, talking long distance to mechanics who have little or no experience with the system. When you are forced into that kind of "hard place" you have to do the best you can with the resources at your disposal. Sounds to me like that's what you are doing.
If the repair shop keeping your coach was, for any reason, totally unable to find a solution, there is a possible alternative. The Forum members have had very good luck with a mobile mechanic who operates in the SE Texas area. His name is Beau Reece, and he is very familiar with all Foretravel coaches. I know this would be a touchy subject - bringing another mechanic into the picture. But if the shop throws up their hands, they might be willing to accept the help. Anyway, keep his name on file for future reference. Hopefully, calling him will not be necessary.
Reece mobile service, Cushing, TX (https://www.automobilebusinesses.com/US/Cushing/1016012085137610/Reece-mobile-service)
Reece Mobil Service
beaureece@yahoo.com
936-221-2055
936-326-4360
269 S. 6th. Street
Cushing, Tx
Chuck - Thanks - I have seen Reece mentioned many times in the forums - Good alternative. I believe thru a earlier post by Roland which took me to Wanderlodge - Valley truck repair (or something like that) in St Joe Missouri have done cable fabrication. Spoke to them today and they thought they could do it - put the mechanic in touch with them so we will see. Also gave them a copy of Rolands modification of a shorter cable he was able to get from foretravel.
The good news is I am not due back in Texas for another 6 weeks - Foretravel is there and I am not paying any storage charges :).
Just an update on replacing accelerator cable. Mechanic says they found a cable, did not say where they got it, but that it was to short. They are doing a mod to try to make it work. Have sent them the mod that was shown in this group. If it gets fixed I will try to find out where they got the cable from and how they fixed it. Always good to know that there may be some cables out there.
If just too short, really not that big a job to move the Bendix unit closer to the engine's throttle.
Exactly what I did. Easy peasy.
Roland
Update to accelerator problem. We just got back to Texas and picked up the RV. Left the Foretravel at repair shop in Spring, TX, for two and a half months while we went back home. Copied them on all the info received from this group. Turned out the cable snapped. The shop was able to get a a new, but shorter cable from Foretravel. They said it was their last one. They moved the Bendix unit closer to the engine throttle. Wish I had the RV with me - I think I could have done the repair for considerably less but was thankful that it was repairable and they held it for 2 months at no charge. Thanks to this group for the help - not sure the shop could have done it without you. I know I could not. If the pictures show up please do not look to closely at the insulation in the engine. A cat got in the compartment and did a number on the insulation. First picture is where the bend used to be - the second is where they relocated it.
Howard,
Glad to hear you got yer throttle fixed, but sorry to hear that FOT sold their last NOS cable. Another "source" for old GV parts dries up. :'(
Don't worry about showing your ragged engine compartment insulation. Mine doesn't look much better. In our case, it was some industrious desert rats that did the damage. Replacing it is on my list...getting closer to the top. When/if you decide to install new insulation, do a search on the Forum for many excellent ideas on various materials others have used.
Word to the wise: any coach owner who has the Bendix air throttle should take very good care of the throttle cable! You can add some external reinforcement to the sheathing if it is starting to disintegrate. Perhaps lube the internal cable if it is getting dry? Do anything you can to postpone the task of having to locate and adapt a new (incorrect length) cable.
My throttle cable "fix" (Reply #20 and #21): Williams Controls WM453109 Air Throttle Valve (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=27762.msg229090#msg229090)
Thanks Chuck
Not that anyone probably cares at this point but here is a picture of the old broken throttle cable (longer one) and the new throttle cable (the shorter one). As stated above and done by others the shorter cable required relocation to make it work - I was told by our mechanic that they got the last throttle cable, I checked with Foretravel and they had several more laying around. So if you have the old bendix air throttle system there are some cables left.
Thanks for adding this photo. It is always appreciated when a member takes the time to "close out the trouble thread" and tell us exactly how their situation was rectified. In your case, showing the actual replacement throttle cable may be a big help to someone else down the road.
Do you recall if there was any identifying numbers or markings on the new cable? Or did it come with any paperwork that would help I.D. it? These shorter cables had to be manufactured somewhere by someone. If we knew the original source of the shorter cable, it might help when FOT's supply finally runs out.
Thread number 14 will lead you to the thread I began when I had this issue. I posted both the Foretravelers party number and a photo of the new cable with what I believe is the mfr party number although it is not very legible.
Roland
Thanks Roland - I just wasn't sure if this cable was the same as the one you got from FOT. I guess they are all from the same batch.
Attached are two pictures: 1 is the cable with the number (Morse) and 2 the numbers from foretravel
So, just to reiterate the info from Roland's and Howard's threads, here are the Bendix air throttle cable numbers:
Howard's replacement cable: MORSE D303192-33 8IN 50422 FOT Part No. 102619
Roland's replacement cable: MORSE D303192-33 8IN 5555 FOT Part No. 102619