Does anyone know any places that do bulkhead repairs in the south Fla, Ga, AL, or in the south west? Nac is not anywhere near where we are going. Mine needs repair but it's not an emergency.
...Bruce, not sure if Paul does 'em, but just sent you a PM (per your request) with his number....might have another idea if he can't...just found that other place, very highly recommended by FT friends who have been going there for awhile, when they couldn't get into Paul's... Truck Fleet Maintenance | Clearwater, FL (http://www.pmtruck.com)
This would not be something most "mechanical shops" would tackle.
Really a job for a welder with specific experience with the basement structure of Foretravels.
I agreed Brett, it's a welding job, they also need to deal with tanks and such as well as the materials needed to close up the job. I would imagine I'll end up in Nac getting this done in the spring or fall.
MOT uses a welder named Brandon at Thomas Welding. I had the rear bulkhead done there this year and it was very well done.
Jim
2002U320
I know the sewer side is shot, it's all been wet more than once. I have drilled and bolted the rear bulkhead several years ago its fairly solid, I pull the plugs and looked at it yesterday it's rustey. Once it's wet unless you drop the bottom it stays wet .
Get a jug of ospho and put it in a small pump sprayer rig a small hose to the spray wand and feed it into the box tube and spray away. The ospho will at least neutralize whats in there if it can get to it. Still have to fix it but it might buy you some time.
You may be able to treat the INSIDE of the box beam, but it is the outside, exposed to WET insulation where the rust forms most quickly. No easy "treatment".
As Bruce said, once the insulation is wet-- it stays wet and in direct contact with untreated thin-wall box beam steel.
We measured, used a magnet and found end of side to side beams. We drilled a round hold up through fiberglass, forward of beams. Ace hardware had plugs to fit our round hole. We then found a garage with a pneumatic drill to cut bolt holes from back of bulkhead beam to our hole in fiberglass bottom. We put bolts in and tighten things up. This is the main repair to hold a bulkhead together, and prevent a more serious separation. If a garage has not worked on previous Foretravel bulkhead repairs, they will not know what is going on and what to do to fix it. The coach owner will have to manage project. Many previous posting with photos to guide you are available.
Barry,
That fix is just fine, IF (ya, big IF) the box beams are not compromised.
Real world-- what you will find is that if there is separation between the angle and FG, the beam is usually compromised.
Ditto Mr Wolfe.
I seen a number of these and so I may thus be overly cautious, what looks simple and limited in most cases was not minor
My bulkhead joint is through bolted not separated and looks good But I know there issues on the wet bay side as water has intruded in due to leaks some time ago. That and some other issues are indications of problems.
The brite side of it is, even if you had to have the whole basement floor frame rebuilt front to back. The total cost still comes in way less than replacing the coach with something else that has no comparison to a Foretravel.
We had a couple that came into the campground where we were at this summer that had a "newer coach." We were talking to them about one thing and another. Come to find out there previous coach had been totaled due to the basement floor rusting out. They weren't happy with the 2014 that they had got to replace it with. He was impressed with the fact that the basement/bulkhead area is a bolt together part and the basement floor can be unbolted and replaced in a FT. Yes it does cost $ but you can get it fixed.
Pamela & Mike
It's a Catch 22 in that keeping the water out keeps the water in.
Sorry to hear. Don't forget to file an insurance claim ALA Jerry Rubin.
My insurance did not cover as it was not a sudden incident but was related to long term maintenance
Um, why not replace the oem thin wall rectangular tubing with something more durable or substantial, seems to me there are many intelligent people here, not to find a great solution, instead of A another reoccurring bandge
Several HAVE upgraded to thicker wall box beams.
But, the real formula for continued long life is not thicker walls (though not a bad idea at the rear bulkhead) but KEEPING IT DRY.
Brett, just a thought. (or 2)
Has anyone tried using a heavier wall box beam, putting another, slightly smaller, solid bar inside, then, with a pipe plug hole near each end, pump the remaining cavity full with grease? Drill & tap for the bolts (twice as many as came with the coach), install the bolts and then pipe plugs in the fill holes. Obviously the outside box beam holes would be clearance and the inside solid bar would be the "nut bar". Location and grease making it highly unlikely to rust.
Might be overkill but would hold things together "pretty well".
Norm,
That would help some, but the majority of the rust is on the OUTSIDE of the box beams. The insulation becomes soaked and thebeams rusts from the outside in.
I think a repair like that would be a labor of love kind of thing. I mean I'm 57 and to do that much to my basement on a 27 year old coach. I don't think it would be worth the effort. When I could repair with box tube or whatever, and now knowing that water entry is the culprit it would never do it again in my lifetime. Education and prevention is the key to it. I think a lot of coaches taht have rust issues had previous owners that did not know about water intrusion and maybe had faulty water connections etc at times. But Foretravel should have Built that area so water had a way to escape and for the area to dry out. I think the design engineers did not think of enough What If's when they designed certain areas of the frame,like the wet bay areas for instance. But then again They probably figured these would be in the RV Junk Yard now and everyone would be ordering a new one. It says something o have a 20 year old coach still running the roads in my opinion,You don't see that many other than old gassers.
The original design is plenty strong enough, with the exception of the Rolok fasteners. The issue is keeping the water out. At some point all of these coaches have had water in the basement due to
Leaks, bay door left open in the rain who knows.
IMO the only way to definitively determine the extent of corrosion is to uncover the section(s) and perform a visual inspection.
The effective inspection can vary based on the experience of the person performing the inspection and the experience of the person/shop performing the repair based on the extent of the corrosion in direct relation to the materials used. This issue must be considered by every FT owner from time to time and the frequency of future inspection(s) must be considered to control this issue.
If I recall the wall thickness of the square Electric Resistance Welded tubing that was removed from our coach was .059"+/- - 16 gauge - and replaced with .119"+/- - 11 gauge - 1/8". I would presume that the steel used to produce the tubing was of the SAE 1010 type - hot rolled commercial quality.
The extent of our problem could not have been seen without removing a section of the pan/covering for a complete visual inspection.
It is the responsibility of each owner to determine the extent of their "inspection" and determine what the repair should entail. All corrosion is not created equal. All of our Rollocks appeared to be well seated.
Our coach was born in 2001 and the repair was completed in 2017. Having the assembly replaced/repaired in 2017 should see it live to around 2033. I hope that I am still able to enjoy our Ol Girl Too when this repair again becomes necessary. Our repair was somewhat less than the cost of replacing one set of tires.
I can not say that we were pleased to experience this issue but feel confident that the repair was effective.
coulda, shoulda, woulda.
Those that have had repairs done did the pull the tanks or just support them?
in our case the welding/fab company used hyd jacks to stabilize the "floor" before the section was cut out and during the install of the new assembly. Only when the new assembly was installed and secure were the jacks removed. The coach was then returned to MOT to provide corrosion resistance material and reassemble.
Bruce, good to hear you are active on the forum. Nice meeting you and your wife at 1 Tranquility Base, Huntsville, AL. My questions are:
1 How do you know the bulkhead is failing? Evidence of movement? Rust? Rust jacking?
2. Could rust be mitigated or prevented by flooding the wet bay with a penetrating anti-rust oil like ACF-50? It could, like water, relentlessly keep penetrating for years. If we could tolerate this oil on the wet bay floor for several weeks, the ACF-50 could find the water's entry point. I spoke to the manufacturer of ACF-50, and it is completely safe for all fiberglass, plastic, rubber, electrical work, etc...
3. How do we instruct the technicians/welders to rust-proof the new steel structure after welding? Powder coat, rubber coat, paint, galvanize? Airplanes with steel structures have, after welding:
a. Holes drilled
b Anti-rust oil sprayed
c. Rubber plug inserted into the hole, sealing in the oil
4. How can we design a better basement floor to keep water out while letting water spills out? Airplanes use drain holes on the bottom of the fuselage.
5. Should we re-build the basement using foam core with a carbon fiber, fiberglass or aluminum structure? This could be as strong as steel, better insulated and more rust-resistant.
Hey Tim.
1 I bolted the bulkhead several years ago, so I know it is rusty. The area around the sewer door has some issues. I know the wet bays have been wet several times due to leaks. Once the water is in the basement there is not much you can do to dry it out short of removing the belly skin and letting it dry.
As far as creating a better mousetrap I guess the only hold up is your ability to shell out coach bucks. When the repair shops replace the damaged areas they use a thicker wall tubing. The original lasted almost 20 years, once it's repaired it will last longer than me.
Tim, you have hit on something I did 6 yrs ago and that was to drill a hole on both sides of coach to line up with the inside of the tubing. I then pushed a 1/4" plastic line right across the width of frame an low pressure sprayed a wax/oil mixture into the tubing then down the full length of the side tubing. I used 1/2" plastic plugs to close holes and around a year later took out 2 rolocks(one either side) and found oil on them and they were in good shape, so figured I did not have any rust problems at that time on INSIDE of tubes.
I did not soak the bay floors but what you could do is drill a bunch of holes across the width and right next to the tubing and pour the rust protector into them to soak the area. Clean it up and caulk holes shut.
Sounds promising to me so what do you think?
JohnH
Like your approach. The ACF-50 oil will not melt the foam and will creep for years.
Agree that not melting the foam is CRITICAL.
I recently inspected a coach that had a diesel fuel leak in the fuel tank compartment. Diesel seeped down into the basement structure and dissolved the foam. To the degree that the fiberglass underside of the coach (bottom of the basement structure) was rippled and I suspect the strong diesel smell is with that coach forever unless a MAJOR rebuild.