I have been reading some of the past posts regarding the Progressive Industries EMS Surge protectors, and I was just wondering if anyone has ever had one of the portable units, that attach at the power pedestal, stolen. I know that there is some type of attachment for a master lock, but locks are for honest people. Just wanted to get some feedback before I pop for the big bucks. Thanks
We've used the portable model for 4 years. Never had it tampered with (to my knowledge) or had it stolen. It has a metal ring on the power cord that can be used with a chain or cable to secure the box to the power pedestal. I locked it the first couple trips, then got tired of the hassle, and quit worrying about it. Even if it is locked, all a thief would have to do is cut the plug off the end of the cord, and they would be gone with the box (the expensive part).
The chance of theft might depend a lot on what type of places you camp, and how much time your coach is left unattended.
4 years using mine. Same story as Chuck and Jeannie.
The autoformer came with a cable lock so I tie both together
5 plus years with ours and still have it.
When we got our'92 we started using a surge protector (not a progressive back then) Like others when it was new we used a cable & lock for a while, after the new wore off not so much. While we are doing the camp host thing, it seems like most people don't lock them up.
Pamela & Mike
Same as others we don't lock ours. In 4 years of full timing, and a lot of boondocking never had anything bothered.
Rather than have the portable EMS or Autoformer out in weather and eyes, why not put them in a closed compartment. Then use regular shore cable rolled up or make a new shorter shore cable from a Lowe's cooktop 50-amp pigtail, to connect these units to coach power inlet. Use a regular long 50-amp extension cable that has the female end closed up inside the compartment, to plug into campground pedestal. Always a good idea anyway to carry a 50-amp extension. This is how we keep our Autoformer out of the elements, when we use it.
Appreciate the feedback. It's the New York blood in me. Too many things "walk"!!
I have been rereading past posts about these units and have determined that I will be happier with a hard wire unit. I read about Humm, etc, and would like to know the best possible location on my 2001 U320 36' FT to install the unit and the sensor. I believe that I want it to monitor BOTH generator and land line. I know a lot of you have this unit. I want to order it today. Please advise. thanks
I have a lock on mine. It came with a 2 hole metal piece. You run the locking cable thru one and around the pedestal.
GleamB--Guess the only things you really have to watch for are New York accents and license plates. >:D :))
Glen & Amy,
We think that monitoring and protecting the coach from both shore & gen is best. And the ONLY place to install for both protections is on the Romex cable between transfer switch and main-panel's main-breaker. If both are located under the bed, the easiest place to mount the new EMS is also under the bed.
We have two Progressive Industries hardwired EMS under the bed and do not ever hear any hum.
We prefer to have the remote readout in the kitchen where we can quickly see amps being used and volts under load, for both 50-amp legs. So we buy the EMS model with separate remote display.
Our floor plan makes it pretty easy to run the small remote cable from under bed to our kitchen. We could use a telephone type cable with RJ-11 ends between bed and kitchen, but we chose to run a 'heavier' jacketed 4-conductor cable between the locations. From bed to our curbside bedroom cabinet we ran the cable through small drilled holes under about 18" of carpeting.
At each end of the remote cable we added common square telephone wire connectors that have a 4-wire termination block and a RJ-11 jack. Then used standard short phone cables with pre-ended RJ-ll plugs to plug into EMS and remote display
Barry and Cindy
Thanks for that very helpful answer to my question.
Barry,
One of them is obviously between the transfer switch and the main breaker. Where is the other EMS mounted?
Thanks,
Trent
We took Barry's route with ours. Hum wasn't from EMS...was transfer switch. Even first MOT installed hummed. The changed it out and now all quiet under the bed. Like having readout in wet bay and kitchen.
We went with Progressive least expensive portable first when we first got the coach. Never did lock it and still have it. We hardwired between ATS and main as described above when we returned home again. We still use the portable to test the post and as additional protection.
Went with the portable one here. Theory is if hard wired in and unit fails Coach dead in the water electrically except for solar panels. If this one fails can still plug in until I get a new unit. Guess I am a lock it up kind of guy. Even been known to make a chain extension to the cable lock to get to something really secure, like water spigot. Won't stop the serious thief, just want to dissuade the casual walk by ones. Someone walking thru the campground even with a surge protector tucked under their arm will not attract a whole lot of attention. However if I see someone walking around with a pair of bolt cutters I'll put down the coffee cup and get ready to reach for something else.
Had not thought about a hardwired EMS failure disabling the coach.
But, if you leave enough slack in the cord when installing it, could easily wire around it (4 wire nuts-- L1, L2, Neutral and Ground)
Hard wired unit can be bypassed in rare event if failure. EMS has wonderful customer Service, even nites and weekends if needed. Parts modules easily replaced.
Hardwired EMS with remote has a bypass switch on remote that will keep power flowing without protection, something useful for failures.
Trent, Check out this thread from a year ago on two EMS protectors
Progressive EMS Bypass (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=28987.msg244165#msg244165) Reply #6 explains why we put a 2nd EMS on the shore cable that goes into the transfer switch. Remove shore cable from transfer switch relay, connect it to 2nd EMS input, put a new Romex cable between new EMS and transfer switch, run a new remote monitor cable to kitchen and transfer switch is protected.
Appreciate the referral to the explanation for two surge protectors.
Upon first getting the FT, I bought the pedestal Over-Voltage model, thinking it was overkill, but didn't want to rely only on surge protection I thought provided by FT in electrical system. Thinking was that the pedestal mount would be easy to understand if a pedestal failure without delving into permanent system protection. Didn't spring for under-protection pedestal type because of price for what I thought was "overkill" anyway. This pedestal mount protected us a couple of years ago when it wouldn't allow me to use the assigned campsite power. Even though the CS owner tried to get me to think our portable had failed because no one else complained (and I looked to see if I could find a store open at 10:00 pm within 100 miles) we finally moved to a different site. (Next day, we found out that several rigs were affected by City/CS owner's equipment failure and city electrical was onsite replacing transformers.)
Rereading manuals in planning for major upgrades earlier this year, to my surprise, I saw that our 1999 U-320 model did NOT have over/under surge protection hardwired in as I previously thought. (Don't know where I saw it.) Consequently, we added Progressive model with instructions to wire for protection of BOTH shore and On-Board Generator. Subsequent telephone call from Vendor - and his lead electrician - talked me out of this and to protect Shore Power only. Not sure I really understood the logic, but followed their advice which is how they stated all EMS additions they installed were done this way. (They are primarily a very well respected Country Coach shop and we are extremely pleased with all the work they performed.) I will now consider adding a second EMS on Generator side for reasons Barry noted.
BTW, our in-door storage facility has a current limited electrical plugin so that renters can use as a "trickle charge" to maintain batteries but not full electricity. (Not sure how he does this and outlet looks normal). Voltage has always been fine per on-board Magnum monitor but electrician told us that the new surge protection may preclude this arrangement - and it does. Just returned coach from modifications an plugged in as normal to no effect. So, now will need to periodically run generator and booster switch.
We also had vendor electrician recheck all electrical connections - especially around ATS - with instructions to loosen and then re-tighten, which we hope he did, because of the pictures on this forum of ATS failures and loose electrical connections being one reason.
Hmmm, generator /boost a pia and prescription to kill batteries- would it be possible to add second dedicated AC input to charger/inverter just for use in your storage facility? Short cord in Basement direct to input lugs on Inverter/charger that is only used for this one purpose? Would be in addition to the shore power on the same lugs, or sliced in after the PMS unit somewhere?
Tim Fiedler
Sure Start Soft Start (http://www.gen-pro.biz)
TCER Direct (http://www.tcerdirect.com) generator-gas-prod (http://www.generatorgasproducts.com) 630 240-9139
Gen-Pro
Good idea. I have always been concerned because I have AGM for engine batteries and 6-volt lead acid for house. Previously, I had switches installed to isolate either or both during storage/dry camping when we had un-diagnosed problems with OEM Inverter/Charger and replaced batteries. I usually isolate engine batteries during storage/campsite parking and recharge with generator independently of the trickle charge or campsite charge to house batteries. I might be able to use your idea by plugging in the storage facility electrical to a battery charger directly connected to my house batteries. Only concern would be if vendor's current restricted electrical connection might damage an independent portable battery charger connected directly to batteries isolated from coach by cutoff switch?
Or Solar (200W) as an option to house batteries with a Trike-L-Start on chassis batteries, since it must be outdoors if you are running generator
Tim Fiedler
Sure Start Soft Start (http://www.gen-pro.biz)
TCER Direct (http://www.tcerdirect.com) generator-gas-prod (http://www.generatorgasproducts.com) 630 240-9139
Gen-Pro
Hugh & Judy, It is common to prefer EMS installation on shore cable, mainly because it protects the 'expensive & important' transfer switch.
I think that there are strong feelings on both camps, and with both being correct, it is hard to argue with them. Also the wide view is generators do not cause voltage problems, so if doing only one EMS put all the protection on shore side, where they think it will do the most good.
And maybe some of the installers are not big RVers themselves, but when the coach suffers a generator voltage regulation problem, they may see the high value of a single EMS after the transfer switch.
Storage facilities may limit current by having a 15 amp circuit breaker, or maybe even a lower amp breaker. The question is what happens if one draws too much current, does it trip a breaker. Also the "rules" may be more verbal than actual.
In your earlier life with only over-volt protection, you were protected from failing or poorly set transformers, something very important. Obviously voltages higher then normal can burn our some devices. Utility power transformers have voltage taps and sometimes a higher voltage is selected if the transformer is a bit under powered, and the higher voltage will end up being normal during high demands.
But low-voltage protection is very important because motors, think roof air conditioners, could draw more amps than designed for during low voltages. Extended high amps can burn out motor windings, whereas light bulbs will glow lower and last longer with low voltages.
My magnum inverter charger has a function it's panel to limit its power use by rotating a dial and telling the unit what it's input power is now limited to.
Pretty sure it goes to 15 amp. Maybe less.
Issue is if PMS sees too low an amperage (or voltage) the PMS will not pass shore power. He is limited in his storage unit below the level PMS will accept, so no power now at storage unit
After my generator voltage regulator problem I will be installing the Progressive after the transfer switch. The transfer switch is only $125.00 online. I carry a pedestal type but have only been in a campground once.
30 years ago I warned all my customers that the charger in the coach would damage the batteries if left plugged in.
I had some put a timer in line so it was only sending power a few hours every other day or to use a small trickle charger directly on the batteries which were next to each other and both flooded cell lead acid 8D's.
Small clip on jumper connected house and engine so both were trickled charged
I think Magnum's power limiting (power sharing) does not limit appliance power or power being drawn from pedestal.
Setting it to 30 amp shore power pedestal for example, only limits Magnum's 12-volt battery charging amps to prevent pedestal breaker tripping.
Magnum must be aware of 120-volt amps being used by appliances for limiting to work. The theory is Magnum will only allow its charger to use amps that are 'left over' up to the 30-amp (or any other power sharing setting).
Problems exist that prevent Power Sharing from being effective. Magnum has no way of knowing amps being used by washers, air conditioners, vacuum, hot water tank, refrigerator, etc etc. Magnum only looks at amps being drawn through Magnum, normally the Inverter Panel appliances. But Foretravels with a 2nd transfer switch, all Inverter Panel loads bypass Magnum, so they don't even know about them.
Probably better to just keep Power Sharing off.
Sorry I must have gotten sidetracked. My comment was meant for the poster who had a power restriction on running a battery charger in his storage area.
To maybe control tthings better we are using the magnums internal switching. Have to ask my guru buddy