Foretravel Motorhome Forums => Foretravel Tech Talk => Topic started by: GleamB on December 05, 2017, 12:04:32 am
Title: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: GleamB on December 05, 2017, 12:04:32 am
We are in Port Aransas on our third month of an eight month trip in our coach. My wife woke me to tell me the coach was loudly letting off air every two minutes or so. It was annoying her and our neighbors. We are on a very level pad. I turned the leveling system "off", thinking this might stop the cycling. It didn't. I had to crawl into the big storage area on the drivers' side, and disconnect the hot wire to the compressor, which is under my slide. The compressor would run hard for a few moments, then the system would let the air out in a loud " whoosh". I have no idea what is going on or how to remedy the situation, but we have a long way to go on this journey. Anyone know what's happening here???? Thanks. BTW.....when we were at OTM, I explained a similar situation to Wayne. He had me raise the coach, then he and I went under the coach with a soap spray and checked for leaks. He found none. I had been parked on a slope the previous night, and he said that might have caused the cycling. Told me to turn off the leveling system if that happened again. It happened again. NO slope. ??????!!!!
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: Tim Fiedler on December 05, 2017, 12:20:13 am
OK, what you are hearing is likely the purge valve which opens automatically at the end of the small compressor run cycle - it will make that sound every time that the small compressor shuts off.
First and foremost, shut off the petcock in the basement that feeds air to your slide bladder (it will be mounted in the bay below the slide and on the vertical wall that extends down into the bay in all likelihood) - and plug back in the small compressor. If the pressor does not change behavior - breath a HUGE sigh of relief, as you probably do not have a bladder leak. A large bladder leak can cause the issue that you describe, as the bladder system (HWH) continues to want to keep the bladder inflated even if the level system is shut off.
Not a bad idea to leave the petcock shut off overnight and see if the bladder stays inflated - JUST REMEMBER TO TURN IT BACK ON BEFORE YOU GO TO TAKE IN THE SLIDE!!!!! because with it in the closed position of course the slide bladder will not deflate when you go to run in the slide with expensive results.
There are two check valves in the system near the small compressor (if you r system is like mine). If you are motorcade member call and get James T to send you the Air digram for your coach- it will show all the locations of all the check valves - the one you are looking for is brass with about a 1 1/4 diameter, somewhere near the pump on the largest sized air line leaving the pump. If that one has become slightly obstructed, your pump will short cycle" as that 3-4' pice of tubing is filled and then the air leaks past the bypass at that point and the process repeats.
Check the records, find out the last time the air dryer was serviced or replaced. Desiccant in the air system causes all sort of Gremlins - including stuck check valves. If no records available have it checked ASAP - I recommend an entire replacement of the unit (Around $550 for a factory reman) in lieu of a rebuild.
Most of this sort of stuff is intimidating to a new owner, but it gets less stressful after you work through a couple of on the road events. Learning curve.
Tim Fiedler
Sure Start Soft Start (http://www.gen-pro.biz)
TCER Direct (http://www.tcerdirect.com) generator-gas-prod (http://www.generatorgasproducts.com) 630 240-9139 Gen-Pro
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: GleamB on December 05, 2017, 12:33:08 am
Thanks.Will do. Air dryer was just redone. The bladder is new. I hope no leak there also! Will check tomorrow.
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: Michael & Jackie on December 05, 2017, 01:25:43 am
Glenn, Tim has explained the things to try. Isolating the bladder is one of the best things to try. And since you took it out of level mode, I understand you still have frequent cycling of the auxiliary compressor. Any idea of how long the auxiliary compressor runs when it does run? Maybe 3.5 minutes and then it shuts off with the swoosh sound.....or does it take much longer than that, maybe five or seven minutes, to build up the pressure and then shut off?
Note this, a leaking check valve does not in my mind respond to soapy water.....which shows leak to the atmosphere, not a leak of the check valve which allows air to leak back in the direction it is supposed to be protecting against the air flowing. If it is leaking air back in a direction it is not supposed to do, there may be ways to detect that, such as with dash gauges. But do you have an air pressure gauge on your auxiliary compressor so you can see the behavior of the tank that it feeds? That can be helpful if you have had such added. While at it, add a toggle switch to the aux compressor so you can easily turn it off, not have to pull the fuse.
When you had the new air dryer redone, why did you do it? Was there white dust coming from any of the four air tanks when you test drained air from each and therefore you replaced the air dryer? IF so, then you have to suspect residual desiccant still in your air system. More on that later, but as Tim said, it can play havoc with the system That needed to be cleaned out, IMHO, if there was a lot of desiccant blowing out when exhausting.
I have a souvenir check valve that i have kept to remind me of what a little moisture and some desiccant can do to ruin a check valve.
If want to talk, give me a call.
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: GleamB on December 05, 2017, 08:38:38 am
I had the dryer routinely serviced last May. What I don't understand is when I locate the check valve, what am I then supposed to do?? Do I remove and clean or remove and replace ?? Where would I buy one?? The bladder is still ok this morning ( just got up and haven't gone into the basement yet ) and has been working fine. It was replaced by the PO not long ago. The compressor ran a short time, maybe a minute, then releases air. I appreciate all the help I can get.
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: Old phart phred on December 05, 2017, 08:44:15 am
If the air compressor has any kind of a tank try draining it if it's waterlogged it will cause short cycling
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: Michael & Jackie on December 05, 2017, 10:40:46 am
You do have a tank for the aux compressor...and on bottom of it a valve to drain or usually just open a second see if blows out water, or dust. Hopefull no dust.
If you are new to this, lets talk how check all four tanks and frequently! Will send you pm for my phone
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: GleamB on December 05, 2017, 11:33:26 am
Just went into basement. Tim....could NOT find petcock to bladder. Bladder is still ok this morning. IF I isolated the bladder and reconnected the hot wire, what did you mean by "....if the compressor does not change behavior...??" I could NOT locate the tank for this small compressor.
I have the air schematic in the owners manual, but cannot make sense of it, or understand what I am trying to find and what to do if I find it.
Thanks, everyone, for helping me with this.
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: Michael & Jackie on December 05, 2017, 11:41:45 am
In the 01, there is a third air tank up under the front end of the coach. Each of the three tanks as valve on bottom. I had my valves moved to the fender of the coach so easy to check.
As for the valve to the bladder, open the bay behind the fuel bay on driver side, find the bay with the electronics panel on the left as look in the bay and then, in the bay look up high on the rear wall of that bay, near the door. and you will see an air line with a simple 90 degree valve. Turn it 90 degrees and will cut off air to the bladder. That valve itself is bad about leaking!
If not working to help you find, you or Tim let me know and will send you photo.
There is another area in that can leak too and maybe I will post a photo of that but try the valve first
To check bladder, trying gently sliding a credit card between the bladder and the coach wall. If the bladder has a leak, it can appear full and even feel full to the touch so the credit card test is good versus looking for light or even feeling with your fingers
m
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: GleamB on December 05, 2017, 12:11:29 pm
Just spoke with John and Mike and they were both helpful. UPDATE....I think I found the petcock located off a metal boxlike thing. I ALSO found what looks like a little glass condensate collector with a brass valve on it with a wire. When I reached my hand to see if I could purge the glass the brass valve almost burned my fingers !!!!! It was VERY hot, even though the compressor has been disconnected all night and up until now. I think my problem is related to this valve. Who should I call? What should I do next?? Is it ok to reconnect the compressor when we have to leave here in a week??
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: jcus on December 05, 2017, 12:23:05 pm
Just spoke with John and Mike and they were both helpful. UPDATE....I think I found the petcock located off a metal boxlike thing. I ALSO found what looks like a little glass condensate collector with a brass valve on it with a wire. When I reached my hand to see if I could purge the glass the brass valve almost burned my fingers !!!!! It was VERY hot, even though the compressor has been disconnected all night and up until now. I think my problem is related to this valve. Who should I call? What should I do next?? Is it ok to reconnect the compressor when we have to leave here in a week??
That is a solenoid valve, should have a plug connection on the hot side. Just unplug it.
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: GleamB on December 05, 2017, 12:27:36 pm
" Just unplug it??" and THEN what?? Adam at OTM says it's a condensate valve gone bad and should be replaced. Does anyone know where I get one? Is that what I ask for? How hard is it to R/R?? Where doe the condensate go...into my storage bay??
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: jcus on December 05, 2017, 12:38:51 pm
" Just unplug it??" and THEN what?? Adam at OTM says it's a condensate valve gone bad and should be replaced. Does anyone know where I get one? Is that what I ask for? How hard is it to R/R?? Where doe the condensate go...into my storage bay??
Part # RAP6354 solenoid,n/o 1/8" 150 PSI SNGL. But any 12 volt n/o 1/8" solenoid should work. If it is leaking when compressor running, you can try cleaning it, may be trash in seat. Should close when pressure is low, this is why it is hot when low pressure and compressor not connected.
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: Michael & Jackie on December 05, 2017, 01:05:56 pm
just turn it off, let it rest, reconnect and see if clears.....mine did, as we discussed.
for you to turn off, as discussed, you may pull fuse or plug in wire (as Jim said).....I have switch after market...but heater solenoid affair was so hot on mine I figured was draining a battery! I would not rush to order a new one without trying this first.
and as we discussed, there may now or sometime be leak in the condensate system collection/discharge system and if so it can require a new cylinder (they crack) or sealant. You can do that if you are flexible enough. Symptom of leak is slow to reach full 85 psi, long time to reach it (10 minutes) and cut off.
You can also, as we discussed, have a leak via the front third tank but I suspect that less likely for you at this point.
as for the valve to the slide, in the first photo it is in the middle the photo, brass fittings on air line, slanted down at 45 degree angle, partially hidden behind the wires and tubes.....but know that mine, as we discussed, is a replacement and the original not that much brass. Common leak point.
another place to leak is on the aluminum block, you do not often see leaks there but can happen on the black cylinder affair.
mike
P.S. I did not include photos of the aux compressor with gauges, switches and the condensate....are on other posts but can bring them to here if need.
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: Jim Frerichs on December 05, 2017, 03:50:49 pm
With the DC compressor running, you might check to see if you feel any air escaping from the solenoid drain - just the bottom of the solenoid. Just a slight puff is enough to reduce the build up of full pressure. It might be slight feeling and making no noise. If so you indeed have a poor sealing of the solenoid. As already mentioned, take it off and disassemble it to clear any debris. Also as a temporary fix while apart you might flatten the rubber seal by spinning a new pencil eraser on it - to make the plunger seat better. The solenoid might have been very hot because the compressor has been running so long from lack of the solenoid sealing fully.
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: hdff on December 05, 2017, 04:22:59 pm
" Just unplug it??" and THEN what?? Adam at OTM says it's a condensate valve gone bad and should be replaced. Does anyone know where I get one? Is that what I ask for? How hard is it to R/R?? Where doe the condensate go...into my storage bay??
I got one 2 weeks ago from HWH, they have the exact replacement... $120. I'm at work and the part number is at home. it opens when the compressor is off and closes when it is off. MOT looked at it last Friday also and replaced the bowl that it is attached to, the fitting that the valve screws into was cracked to... notice the hot wire to the compressor is cut to get the compressor to stop running...
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: qcj on December 05, 2017, 04:28:31 pm
Mine was doing the same thing and I found a major leak at the solenoid that looks like one of the six pack. The O-ring was very brittle.
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: hdff on December 05, 2017, 04:31:10 pm
Mine was doing the same thing and I found a major leak at the solenoid that looks like one of the six pack. The O-ring was very brittle.
which solenoid?
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: Michael & Jackie on December 05, 2017, 05:03:55 pm
it is the solenoid that releases the air thru the glass condensate cylinder, out the bottom at a right angle as I recall. the photo by the posts just above show that.
that system is prone to leaking, that is to say, it among the first places to look for a leak.....the cylinder affair.
and better there than a slide......I do know that, one is change, the other is coach bucks.
but may not need to replace it, try cycling it first, see if clears the solenoid. But if the glass cylinder is cracked or fit ruined, just need to replace. May be able to feel the air with our hands but certain the soapy water bottle spray will show the way
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: GleamB on December 05, 2017, 08:12:19 pm
hdff .......THAT IS THE PART that I am talking about. It is VERY HOT to the touch, even though the compressor had been off for hours. I will take it apart, after running the compressor again, and see if there is a leak there. What I still don't understand is......if the glass part collects moisture, as with most air compressors, then WHERE DOES THE CONDENSATE GO???!!! I found a post written by Carol and Scot in 2013 that shows a picture of the solenoid, only HIS HAD A PETCOCK ON THE END OF THE SOLENOID. I can understand having to empty moisture from the compressor.....I have been doing that for years on all my compressors.....but how does this little, hard working compressor get rid of moisture?? Is THAT why the solenoid is HOT??? SHOULD the solenoid be hot to the touch even after I disconnected the compressor? How do I clean up the glass/solenoid after I remove it from the compressor?? I had a call into James at FT, and he said I have a leak in either the leveling system or the bladder. I am just following recommendations. Thanks, everyone
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: rbark on December 05, 2017, 08:19:15 pm
Glenn, there should be very little moisture coming out when it purges. Really not enough to worry about. If there is, you probably have other issues.
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: jcus on December 05, 2017, 08:28:38 pm
hdff .......THAT IS THE PART that I am talking about. It is VERY HOT to the touch, even though the compressor had been off for hours. I will take it apart, after running the compressor again, and see if there is a leak there. What I still don't understand is......if the glass part collects moisture, as with most air compressors, then WHERE DOES THE CONDENSATE GO???!!! I found a post written by Carol and Scot in 2013 that shows a picture of the solenoid, only HIS HAD A PETCOCK ON THE END OF THE SOLENOID. I can understand having to empty moisture from the compressor.....I have been doing that for years on all my compressors.....but how does this little, hard working compressor get rid of moisture?? Is THAT why the solenoid is HOT??? SHOULD the solenoid be hot to the touch even after I disconnected the compressor? How do I clean up the glass/solenoid after I remove it from the compressor?? I had a call into James at FT, and he said I have a leak in either the leveling system or the bladder. I am just following recommendations. Thanks, everyone
The solenoid is hot because the coil is energized. If compressor is disconnected and pressure falls, the pressure switch reads low pressure. This activates coil and compressor until pressure switch opens again at correct pressure and stops compressor and deactivates coil on solenoid valve. Because you have disabled compressor, coil will not drop out until pressure rises, and this will not happen because compressor is not running. The petcock is an add on and not necessary. I posted the part number in a previous post. I
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: hdff on December 05, 2017, 08:41:14 pm
Here's something on the rebuilding of the solenoid, I did it but mine still didn't work, that's why I got a new one, plus found the metal piece in the bottom of bowl was cracked
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: GleamB on December 05, 2017, 11:54:15 pm
hdff, did you have any trouble removing the valve from the glass? Did you replace the glass or clean it, at the same time you disassembled the valve to clean it ?? It is raining here for the next few days, and I can't open the joey bed without getting everything wet. Will have to wait a few days to try and clean it up. Hope I'm not hurting anything by having the compressor disconnected. That part gets pretty warm. Thanks for the part number jcus.
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: jcus on December 06, 2017, 12:06:39 am
hdff, did you have any trouble removing the valve from the glass? Did you replace the glass or clean it, at the same time you disassembled the valve to clean it ?? It is raining here for the next few days, and I can't open the joey bed without getting everything wet. Will have to wait a few days to try and clean it up. Hope I'm not hurting anything by having the compressor disconnected. That part gets pretty warm. Thanks for the part number jcus.
You should have just a plug type disconnect for the solenoid valve, just unplug it. If hardwired, just cut the wire. The solenoid valve just dumps the water from the bowel assembly which removes some of the water. If you have to move the coach, you can without it, and if it is leaking, you can actually just remove it till you can fix it properly. You will need some 1/4 inch Home Depot fittings to do it, but can be done. Foretravels are good coaches for workarounds, not always the right way, but the way that gets you to the house where you can do it correctly.
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: hdff on December 06, 2017, 07:10:02 am
Here's something on the rebuilding of the solenoid, I did it but mine still didn't work, that's why I got a new one, plus found the metal piece in the bottom of bowl was cracked
MOT replaced the pressure switch last Friday and found a crack in the metal piece at the bottom of the bowl and replaced the bowl, they had it in stock. I got the new solenoid from HWH off of their web site, new one was identical to the old one including the plug. unplug the hot wire, unbolt the ground to the solenoid and take the bowl off, it has a screw collar at the top, and work on it on a bench instead of cramped in the basement
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: GleamB on December 06, 2017, 10:23:37 am
Roger that. I take it I would need a 1/4" plug for the solenoid. How about if I remove the glass??? Can I operate the compressor without the glass/solenoid combo. And WHERE does the solenoid dump the moisture?? Into my storage area?? How come there isn't a puddle of water? Or a big rust area? You guys are very helpful. I'm learning a LOT!!
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: jcus on December 06, 2017, 10:34:23 am
Roger that. I take it I would need a 1/4" plug for the solenoid. How about if I remove the glass??? Can I operate the compressor without the glass/solenoid combo. And WHERE does the solenoid dump the moisture?? Into my storage area?? How come there isn't a puddle of water? Or a big rust area? You guys are very helpful. I'm learning a LOT!!
Yes you can operate without it. That compressor only supplies pressure to bags and slides when engine compressor is not running and pressure falls, so not that much water is trapped. Mine will evaporate every day. Drill an hole and run a hose out of compartment if it bothers you.
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: Michael & Jackie on December 06, 2017, 10:52:39 am
It vaporizes a very small amount of water relative to bay volume, as we duscussed and Jim noted in this thread. Not a problem. As we discussed, unplug solenoid to make it cycle, see if fixes hot vaporizer as first step on it, check glass cylinder for leak using soapy water if you cannot feel a leak with your hand. Helps to crawl up in the bay to more easily see this.
Have you done those and found these not your problem? Think you have but i have not gone back thru thread since we talked to be sure. Those were the first options for leak after you isolated the slide bladder, which I trust you did with the valve cutoff and credit card?
There can also be a check valve failure on this model coach that causes problem but that less likely than the first troubleshooting....we can talk of that if you find cylinder not leaking. There is also an option for a leak on the block but it too less likely.
I would add a air pressure gauge to the aux, monitors the third air tank. Been great for me to monitor pressure and rate of change in psi. Also lets you monitor the solenoid settings for turning compressor on (65 psi) and off (85psi). Add rocker switch so can turn off the compressor. I count this as important for couple of reasons.
As for compressor failure, at one time I was going to replace the compressor with model that comes on later coaches. Was told by tech I did not have good idea, fix what have....it is pretty strong, turned be good advice. Did not even require a rebuild and we have 150,000 miles on it but if overheat too much too often I am told can deteriorate some internal parts need to replace.
I am concerned for you....you making progress on this or need something?
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: GleamB on December 06, 2017, 12:13:15 pm
The rain is keeping me from tackling the problem. I will go to Home Depot and get a 1/4" plug.....hope I get the right thread. I will do as you suggested at the first opportunity and let you know how I am doing. Thanks
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: jcus on December 06, 2017, 02:18:32 pm
All the threads are pipe threads, "NPT". Would take the solenoid with you, mine is 1/8". If bowel is leaking, take entire separator to home depot and have someone there give you pipe fittings just to bypass it until you can get the right part.
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: GleamB on December 06, 2017, 04:09:51 pm
I will do as instructed !!!
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: jcus on December 06, 2017, 07:22:02 pm
May help some people, from our Steve and Michelle's IRV blog. HWH Filters and Bowls (http://www.irvblog.com/foretravel%20projects/HWH-Filters//#read-more)
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: GleamB on December 09, 2017, 05:31:25 pm
The sun is finally out. I sprayed the solenoid area with bubble solution, fired up the aux compressor and watched a lot of bubbles get made. I can feel air being blown downward. GOOD news, I guess. We are moving Monday, so I will wait to work on it for a couple of days, as long as I can pull in my slide and move the coach without any problems. I have read on a concurrent thread " HWH Auxiliary Air Issue ", that someone bought a solenoid from HWH ( for $120 ??wow ) . Then someone got a replacement glass from MOT?? Is there a way to purchase BOTH from one source, should I need it?? I will try to take it apart and fix it, but might need a replacement. The wires will have to be cut. I have a MALE connection on a black wire with a tag that says " To Water Trap Solenoid " , but there is NO FEMALE part to hook into ????!!!! Anyone know what's going on here. ??? BTW....should the two threads be combined???? They seem to be dealing with similar issues ??
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: jcus on December 09, 2017, 05:39:02 pm
The sun is finally out. I sprayed the solenoid area with bubble solution, fired up the aux compressor and watched a lot of bubbles get made. I can feel air being blown downward. GOOD news, I guess. We are moving Monday, so I will wait to work on it for a couple of days, as long as I can pull in my slide and move the coach without any problems. I have read on a concurrent thread " HWH Auxiliary Air Issue ", that someone bought a solenoid from HWH ( for $120 ??wow ) . Then someone got a replacement glass from MOT?? Is there a way to purchase BOTH from one source, should I need it?? I will try to take it apart and fix it, but might need a replacement. The wires will have to be cut. I have a MALE connection on a black wire with a tag that says " To Water Trap Solenoid " , but there is NO FEMALE part to hook into ????!!!! Anyone know what's going on here. ??? BTW....should the two threads be combined???? They seem to be dealing with similar issues ??
Glen, are you saying that there is not two wires [one will be ground] hooked up to the solenoid valve? If there isn't, the valve is open and that is why air is leaking when compressor running.
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: Tim Fiedler on December 09, 2017, 05:55:46 pm
FOT will have both parts I would guess - and will offer Motorcade discount -
you may find the parts cheaper, but not more convenient
Tim Fiedler
Sure Start Soft Start (http://www.gen-pro.biz)
TCER Direct (http://www.tcerdirect.com) generator-gas-prod (http://www.generatorgasproducts.com) 630 240-9139 Gen-Pro
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: jcus on December 09, 2017, 05:59:04 pm
Actually dc coils are not polarity sensitive. As long as you have power to the coil, it should work. Believe hot lead comes from pressure switch and other should go to ground. Solenoid valve on bottom of separator bowl will close when compressor running and open when compressor stops if wired properly, Hold a screwdriver next to coil when comp. running, if wired correctly should be magnetized.
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: GleamB on December 09, 2017, 06:43:52 pm
Thanks Tim, will do. Jcus... didn't mean to mislead you. There ARE two wires coming off solenoid. One goes up to a small green board and seems to be the ground I have to trace the other. I w\Have to dismount the compressor to get to the bowl. My hand can't fit behind the compressor otherwise. The two wires were wire tied to the support. I will cut them free and trace them. I have NO IDEA what the coil looks like. Also, people keep saying they remove the fuse to stop the compressor from running. I cannot see any fuse. I disconnect the red hot wire to stop it from running. I will probably install a switch, as was recommended by Michael and Jackie. I don't see how or where to install a gauge, but am searching past threads for info.
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: jcus on December 09, 2017, 07:01:30 pm
Thanks Tim, will do. Jcus... didn't mean to mislead you. There ARE two wires coming off solenoid. One goes up to a small green board and seems to be the ground I have to trace the other. I w\Have to dismount the compressor to get to the bowl. My hand can't fit behind the compressor otherwise. The two wires were wire tied to the support. I will cut them free and trace them. I have NO IDEA what the coil looks like. Also, people keep saying they remove the fuse to stop the compressor from running. I cannot see any fuse. I disconnect the red hot wire to stop it from running. I will probably install a switch, as was recommended by Michael and Jackie. I don't see how or where to install a gauge, but am searching past threads for info.
The coil is the round thing with two wires coming off of it on the valve on the bottom of the glass bowl on the separator. This is what closes the valve when the compressor runs. Go back to the link I pasted with hwh filters and bowels and you can see it. It should be magnetized when comp running and if it does not leak when comp running, don't worry about it
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: GleamB on December 09, 2017, 07:36:45 pm
OK. IF I get this right, I am trying to see if the solenoid is doing it's job by putting the screwdriver on the end if it while the compressor is running? I KNOW I have a leak between the glass container and the solenoid. When I can, I will disconnect the two wires from the solenoid and unscrew the glass by turning a black ring at the top of it. I will then look at the connection and try and find the leak. Hopefully, it is some type of "O " ring.
I am new to all of this, so I must ask, once again: Will the silde/ bladder operate without the aux compressor?? My main tanks work fine, lots of pressure. We are leaving Monday. I will work on the aux compressor when we next stop. Thanks, all of you.
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: GleamB on December 09, 2017, 07:38:42 pm
P.S.......I FINALLY got to post the picture of the wire that doesn't have a female. I will go under tomorrow and try and locate the inline fuse. Didn't see it this afternoon.
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: jcus on December 09, 2017, 07:52:11 pm
P.S.......I FINALLY got to post the picture of the wire that doesn't have a female. I will go under tomorrow and try and locate the inline fuse. Didn't see it this afternoon.
Yes, that should have a female connector, it is obvious that the valve is leaking air when compressor is running, because it needs power to close. Your main engine compressor will supply the air you need for slide bladders etc. Suggest you start main engine before you move slides so you are sure you have enough air pressure for them, if tank pressures below 90 psi.
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: GleamB on December 09, 2017, 08:01:17 pm
We purchased this coach last January. Full timed until first of June. No problems with aux compressor. I may have noticed short cycling this summer. Not sure. We have been full timing since first of October. How can we have missed this, AND Wayne at OTM miss it when I asked him about short cycling last month?? How can I fix the wire problem?? Can I splice into another wire on the compressor?? Which one ?? Feeling a little uneasy about now.
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: GleamB on December 09, 2017, 08:04:23 pm
BTW this is where my leak is
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: jcus on December 09, 2017, 08:19:33 pm
The other end of the wire should come out of the pressure switch. If leaking from top of bowl, might be able to clean up and teflon tape, But solenoid valve has to have power to close or it will stay open and comp will not build up enough pressure. You can run without aux compressor. Suggest you level with engine running then shut off hwh system. If you do not have bag/leveling valve leaks, you should stay level. Aux compressor is for slide seals and leveling when engine is off. It will help you to troubleshoot, if you learn the names of the components in your system.
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: John44 on December 10, 2017, 04:43:15 am
That electrical device below the bowl may be the water trap,does it have any disconnected wire?
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: GleamB on December 10, 2017, 11:16:07 am
I will look at it more closely today, and take it apart, since I don't need it to pull in / extend the slide. Will let you know what I find.
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: jcus on December 10, 2017, 12:01:37 pm
I will look at it more closely today, and take it apart, since I don't need it to pull in / extend the slide. Will let you know what I find.
Think of it as a type of "filter", when compressor is running, air is compressed and goes through separator and water is "filtered" out and drops to bottom of bowel. A long as compressor is running, solenoid valve at bottom of bowel is closed and water will build up in bowel. When pressure switch [gray box with wires coming out] sees that pressure is proper, it shuts off power to compressor and to solenoid valve. This valve will now open and allow water to drain out, because it is normally open and only closes when the solenoid valve, [coil is electrical end of valve] sees power, as when compressor is running. The coil is just an electric magnet that closes valve, that's why a screwdriver will stick to it if it has power. The solenoid valve does the same thing as your manual tank drains do, but does it electrically.
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: Carol & Scott on December 10, 2017, 12:53:17 pm
This post is way out of order but wanted to note:
The Pitcock in my posting of a couple of years ago was placed there by our previous owner. One of the solenoid wires was not attached to the coil on that solenoid so the PO attached that pitcock to control air flow. I would open every few days and empty the glass bowl. With the assistance of a fellow FoFum member I was able to disassemble and repair that solenoid and removed the pitcock.
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: GleamB on December 10, 2017, 02:59:06 pm
I was under the coach again to get a better look at all things. I ran the compressor and it was leaking where the plastic bowl and the solenoid meet. I traced wires that are in question. The two wires that go from the solenoid below the leak both go to the small " green board ". One wire seems to connect to a post. The other goes thru a connector like the one I am missing part to. It also goes to the board, but looks as if it is soldered in. It is tagged " to exhaust solenoid ". The wire that has male only is tagged " to water trap." It goes to the green board where it looks soldered in. No female for it anywhere. I tried to release the plastic bowl so I can determine why it is leaking. I could not figure out how to release it. There is a black ring at the top of the plastic bowl, but I would have to get a channel lock on it.....IF I SHOULD TURN IT. If I have to turn the clear bowl, and leave the black ring alone,I fear that I can easily break it. So....how do I get the bowl out and what should I do about the disconnected wire.???
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: wantabe on December 10, 2017, 05:25:02 pm
in discussing fhe fittings be aware that there are NPT (national pipe thread) and NPT fine which is a finer thread with a different shape, still tapered, and a straight pipe thread which is not spec'ed as NPT, but something that nuts will thread on. These variations are mostly used in various fuel configurations and small brass/bronze fittings
Wantabe
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: GleamB on December 10, 2017, 07:33:47 pm
The questions are: How do I get the bowl off and what should I do about the missing connection ?? What am I supposed to gain from the comment about pipe threads??Should I look for a different fitting?? Where would I get them??What are you trying to say ?? I am looking for a fix to my compressor problem, and I am not close to Nacadogches. Guess I can wait until we get to Quartzite. Maybe someone there can help me
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: Carol & Scott on December 10, 2017, 07:57:35 pm
The questions are: How do I get the bowl off - I will look at my set up tomorrow and respond. It has been a couple of years since I have been there. and what should I do about the missing connection ?? What am I supposed to gain from the comment about pipe threads??Should I look for a different fitting?? Where would I get them??The parts should be available from MOT or FT. Get price and availability for the glass bowl and the solenoid and we shall see what what you need. In the mean time pick up a 12 volt switch at NAPA and wire it into your power lead to the compressor. That way you can turn it off when you want without pulling the fuse or disconnecting a wire. PM me with your phone # and I'll call you tomorrow AM central time.
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: red tractor on December 10, 2017, 08:38:33 pm
The black ring is what needs to be turned counter clockwise and then the plastic bowl will come down. If it is leaking between the bowl and the solenoid, could have a crack in the bowl or maybe the gasket on the fitting which you will be able to determine once you have it in your hand.
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: jcus on December 10, 2017, 08:52:55 pm
Glen, many people run for years without their aux compressor. Probably better to wait till Quartzite where you can get some real time instruction. Think in your coach you need at least 70 psi to inflate and deflate your slide seals, so make sure you have that in your tanks before using slides, or run engine first to bring pressure up.
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: GleamB on December 10, 2017, 10:49:11 pm
Thanks to all. jcus....I have plenty of air in the big tanks. I will do as you suggest. Thanks for your patience with me. Seems like it should be a little easier than it is. Even after loosening the four mounting bolts, it is still " tight " up there to disconnect the plastic bulb and the wires from the solenoid. Don't want to screw anything up.
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: jcus on December 10, 2017, 11:01:39 pm
Thanks to all. jcus....I have plenty of air in the big tanks. I will do as you suggest. Thanks for your patience with me. Seems like it should be a little easier than it is. Even after loosening the four mounting bolts, it is still " tight " up there to disconnect the plastic bulb and the wires from the solenoid. Don't want to screw anything up.
Good thinking, I don't know how many $10, 2 hour repair jobs, I turned into $100, 5 hour repair jobs. Sometimes it just makes sense to let someone show you in person, or pay someone to do it for you. You will find plenty of people in Quartzite more than happy to help you out.
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: Michael & Jackie on December 11, 2017, 09:34:11 am
Hesitate to rejoin this thread, you getting help, but just to try to add some value and a concern......I hope Roger or Scott will respond to this question.
I am thinking, I do not know why, that unlike perhaps an 03, the 01 may not air up the third tank via the coach compressor. In other words, Glen may not be able to fill the third tank by running the engine compressor?
That is really only important in one regard. IF as was in my prior experience, that I could not fill the third tank that way, he has a problem if he tries to move the slide. However the behavior I saw may have only been related to failed check valves but it may have also been that by design one cannot fill the third tank via the engine compressor.
If the third tank is not filled by the engine compressor, and he will not be able to know the psi if he has air in the third tank as he does not have a gauge on his, then he will not be able to deflate the slide bladder. There is no monitor on whether your slide bladder deflates. You have to look at it, be sure it deflated before pushing the retract or extend button. That red light thing is not a monitor of slide bladder deflate, it is only on as a function of time.
Tis late and cold out so I am not running an experiment tonight to be sure my engine compressor will pressurize the third tank.
But whether I was not able to pressurize it due to failed check valves or that the plumbing does not allow the engine to pressurize that third tank, then that is why I had designed a work around to get air into that third tank without the aux working or the engine compressor filling it. It was a method that gave James Triana pause due to DOT so I devised another way too to put air into the third tank if the aux had completely failed.....that can be reviewed again if Glen needs it.
Before Glen you do anything, I hope an owner with an 01 can verify that the engine compressor will fill the third tank. IF it will not, I can help. If it does, you are in luck. I am probably overly cautious.
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: jcus on December 11, 2017, 10:26:44 am
Hesitate to rejoin this thread, you getting help, but just to try to add some value and a concern......I hope Roger or Scott will respond to this question.
I am thinking, I do not know why, that unlike perhaps an 03, the 01 may not air up the third tank via the coach compressor. In other words, Glen may not be able to fill the third tank by running the engine compressor?
That is really only important in one regard. IF as was in my prior experience, that I could not fill the third tank that way, he has a problem if he tries to move the slide. However the behavior I saw may have only been related to failed check valves but it may have also been that by design one cannot fill the third tank via the engine compressor.
If the third tank is not filled by the engine compressor, and he will not be able to know the psi if he has air in the third tank as he does not have a gauge on his, then he will not be able to deflate the slide bladder. There is no monitor on whether your slide bladder deflates. You have to look at it, be sure it deflated before pushing the retract or extend button. That red light thing is not a monitor of slide bladder deflate, it is only on as a function of time.
Tis late and cold out so I am not running an experiment tonight to be sure my engine compressor will pressurize the third tank.
But whether I was not able to pressurize it due to failed check valves or that the plumbing does not allow the engine to pressurize that third tank, then that is why I had designed a work around to get air into that third tank without the aux working or the engine compressor filling it. It was a method that gave James Triana pause due to DOT so I devised another way too to put air into the third tank if the aux had completely failed.....that can be reviewed again if Glen needs it.
Before Glen you do anything, I hope an owner with an 01 can verify that the engine compressor will fill the third tank. IF it will not, I can help. If it does, you are in luck. I am probably overly cautious.
Good Point Mike, you may be right, mine may be completely different. If anyone has B-2193 drawing, I think that is for the 2001. Glen may be better off just running 12 volt pump before using slide even if leaking, then disconnecting till next time, slide seals should not leak down if slide valves okay. Sent Glen an email with this new info.
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: GleamB on December 11, 2017, 11:28:21 pm
Well.....I didn't see the last two posts until this evening!! Must say, it gave me a jolt. We HAD to leave the RV camp we were at this morning, and I had read here in past posts that the main tanks would be able to get my slide in/out. I had turned off the leveling system at the start of the problem, last week. The bladder held air fine and the tank gauges showed plenty of air. I fired up the engine and pulled in the slide, as I normally do. It did travel SLOWER than with the aux compressor working??!!! The level light on the dash was on and beeping, so I turned it on and pressed the button twice. Didn't stop beeping. I then raised the coach, then lowered it, to try and get it into "travel" mode. It finally did, and I breathed a sigh of relief. Now that we are set up again for a week, I will try and remove the plastic bowl, and attached solenoid. I disconnected the "hot " line, so perhaps it will be cool to the touch tomorrow. I then need to remove the negative wire, which of course, is in a "tight spot ". If it is too difficult, I will cut the wire and splice into it when I reinstall either it or a replacement part. STILL DON'T HAVE ANY IDEA of what to do with the mystery wire. Maybe it was never used in the first place.
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: jcus on December 11, 2017, 11:55:17 pm
HWH Air Leveling System Explained (http://beamalarm.com/Documents/hwh/hwh-air-leveling-system-explained.html) Good reading
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on December 12, 2017, 08:06:19 am
Excellent reference - very pertinent to this discussion! Fig. 43 (compressor wiring diagram) may help Glenn identify his "mystery wire".
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: Michelle on December 12, 2017, 11:05:12 am
That's HWH's Online technical school manual, Lesson 10 (BASIC HYDRAULICS (https://www.hwhcorp.com/ml57000-018.html)), chapter 3. Hopefully credit is given for that reference.
The entire course is here -> https://www.hwhcorp.com/ml57000-000.html
and you can save a copy or print sections out as needed
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: GleamB on December 12, 2017, 06:01:11 pm
I got under the coach today and installed a switch on the hot line. Then, I was successful in removing the plastic bowl. I was also successful in taking apart the solenoid below the bowl. I saw no cracks, although there was some " movement " in the fitting below the bowl. I saw no way to " tighten up " that fitting. I covered the exhaust ports on the fitting and blew hard into the top of the bowl. No LEAKS!!?? I had spoken to jcus this morning, and decided to add some teflon tape to the coil and reconnect it to the valve. I fired up the compressor, it ran then stopped.......for twenty seconds. ( I timed it ). Did it again. Twenty seconds between cycles. So......I guess I have a leak somewhere.......where, I have no idea. Also, after looking at the wiring diagram noted above for a long time, I noticed that there is wiring to the WATER TRAP, with NO MENTION of an Exhaust Solenoid. As I have stated above, my system is wired to the EXHAUST SOLENOID. The male wire is labeled TO WATER TRAP. It goes nowhere. Does anyone know what the difference is between an exhaust solenoid and a water trap solenoid ?? I doubt that this is the answer to my problem, but I have done all that I am able to do at this time. UNLESS someone has any good ideas........???????
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: Carol & Scott on December 12, 2017, 06:19:01 pm
Check your PMs.
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: Tim Fiedler on December 12, 2017, 08:17:00 pm
one of two check valves is plugged, the small brass one on the compressor itself or the one that is in the bay with the compressor on a 1/4" line on the 0utput of the compressor. only way for the compressor to cycle ofter is if there is a decent leak, and if that is the case it won't shut off fast.
Ahhh, but there is an exception. If a check valve is partially obstructed on the outflow from the pump, the pump can reach 90 PSI quickly sine the valve is in line very close to the compressor. and the volume of space to be pressurized is small. But if it is partially blocked (outbound) of the compressed air, it will continue to do its job (allow are outbound, albeit at a reduced rate) and that small volume will quickly go down below 60 PSI and the pump will turn back on.
To repeat, the only way that the compressor leaks down to 60PSI quickly is a big leak on the entire system, or a small leak in a small portion of the system near the compressor. And the only way the compressor reaches 90 PSI in 12 seconds from 60 PSI is if the compressor is pressurizing a very small space. So the culprit is either the check valve (brass) on the compressor itself (again, it is stamped with a TINY horizontal "y" with a "o" in the y. (that indicated direction of flow for that valve.)
If it is not the one mounted on the compressor body, it is the brass one in-line right near the compressor that is on a line that flows outward from the compressor
At least that is what it was no my coach..... :-)
Tim Fiedler
Sure Start Soft Start (http://www.gen-pro.biz)
TCER Direct (http://www.tcerdirect.com) generator-gas-prod (http://www.generatorgasproducts.com) 630 240-9139 Gen-Pro
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: GleamB on December 13, 2017, 10:48:32 am
I am going to install a gauge on the compressor. what is my next step.....to remove those brass check valves and see if they are clogged ??
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: GleamB on December 13, 2017, 11:44:05 am
Just an update..... I've been speaking with some very helpful members, by phone, about this issue. I was able to operate my slide/ bladder on Monday, with the aux compressor OFF !! It was suggested to me that it was "good news, bad news " and that the reason I was able to do so was that I had a bad check valve somewhere allowing air from the big tanks to "backfill" my third tank. I am 10 hours away from Nac, on our way to Quartzite. I have to get some safety stands made up, so that I can work under the coach. I am then faced with learning how to remove, test, replace check valves on the system, or yielding to higher powers and having the work done in a shop. Sounds like lots of $$$$, IF I can find a reputable mechanic between South Padre Island and Arizona. I am currently trying to find Michael's post about installing a gauge, with no luck. I also will review the procedure to use the safety stands correctly. I believe that I run engine, raise coach ( how do I know when it is at highest level? ), place stands and then lower the coach?? Any tips about how to remove/ replace check valves, especially if hard to disconnect, as I have read?? Thanks, once again
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on December 13, 2017, 12:16:53 pm
I also will review the procedure to use the safety stands correctly. I believe that I run engine, raise coach ( how do I know when it is at highest level? ), place stands and then lower the coach?? Any tips about how to remove/ replace check valves, especially if hard to disconnect, as I have read??
Glenn,
Keep a positive attitude! The work you are describing is not intellectually challenging. Because of the location of components, and the fact that connections can be very tight, working on the air system can be physically difficult. You can do it!
Safety stands: My opinion: make them out of metal, and get 8 of them. Engine running - let your air compressor cut out, so system pressure is at maximum. Hold down on the "raise" button until the coach stops going up. You can feel when it stops moving and is at the top of air bag travel. Shut off the engine, then release the raise button. If you release the raise button with the engine running, the coach will immediately start to drop back to travel position. Walk around and put your stands in place. My opinion: whether or not you let the coach down onto the stands is optional. If I am doing a short job under the coach, I just leave it in the fully raised position after I insert the stands. That way when I'm done I don't need to start the engine (again) before I can remove the stands. Our coach will remain in the fully raised position for quite a while, but will eventually slowly drop down onto the stands. Anyway, that's up to you.
The check valves can be VERY tight. Depending on access to your valves, it may be difficult to get sufficient leverage on your wrench when you go to remove them. All you can do is play around with different positions on the wrench until you find the "magic" combination. For tools, the best choice is a long box end wrench. (remove the air hose first) Next best is a long open end wrench. Adjustable wrenches and pipe wrenches should be your last choice. If you have room, you can use a "cheater pipe" on your wrench of choice to increase leverage, but tight confines can make this tough.
Edit: If you have a set of large size, deep 1/2" drive sockets, you may be able to use them for some of your air system work. Not as common to find sockets this size in the average tool kit, but thought I'd mention it.
If your check valves are like the ones on my coach, they come apart into two pieces. You can use a big wrench (1 5/16" or 1 3/8" I don't recall which) to break the valve in half. Then you can use a smaller wrench to remove the male threaded valve half from the tank.
Keep us informed of your progress. You are not alone! Many of us have been down this path, and many more will follow your lead.
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: GleamB on December 13, 2017, 12:43:43 pm
Thanks for that info !! Got to go shopping for safety stands and big wrenches. You taught me some valuable lessons here. Just one more thing... seems the vote is to replace, rather than try to clean the existing valves....????
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on December 13, 2017, 12:52:51 pm
...seems the vote is to replace, rather than try to clean the existing valves....????
Take a look at the insides when you get them apart. Odds are, you will want to replace them, especially if they are original factory. If there is one in salvageable condition, you could clean it up and save as a "emergency backup" in your parts drawer.
Reminder: It is highly recommended to avoid using any kind of teflon tape on the air system. All the smart kids on this Forum use a pipe sealing paste made for high temp air systems. I use either LOCTITE 567 PST or PERMATEX 59214, whichever I happen to find when I go shopping. You only need this stuff on the pipe thread fittings, such as the ones on the dryer and the air tanks. Any hose connection with a flare or compression fitting does not require the use of sealant.
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: GleamB on December 13, 2017, 04:09:25 pm
Update.... I was told to check the bladder with a credit card to see if was holding air. Could't get card in= good! I turned on the compressor and it just ran.....I decided to close the valve to the bladder. Took a deep breath. Compressor kept running=good. I was told to check to see if the solenoid below the plastic valve's coil was "magnetized " when the compressor was running. It IS magnetized. I decided to switch the wire marked "to exhaust solenoid " with the one marked " to water trap solenoid." My reasoning was that when I looked at the HWH diagram 43, yesterday, it noted the valve below the plastic bowl as being Water Trap. Nowhere could I find the word "Exhaust ". I heard a few air exhausts, but scared myself, and switched the wires back to where they were. I have a call into tech help at HWH for SOMEONE to tell me what the difference is between EXHAUST and WATER TRAP solenoids might be. I still have no idea why I have the mystery wire. We will if they call me back. Still believe there must be a leak somewhere, and am on my quest to find it. In the meantime I will turn the compressor off, until we have to move the slide in or out.
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: Michael & Jackie on December 13, 2017, 07:07:24 pm
Dear Glen,
a. Gauge installation. The first photos are of the air line that connects the gauge to the aux compressor tank pressure and hence to the aux compressor psi. The "T" where the gauge gets its pressure (photo 1). On the gauge you will see where the air line attaches and there is a green wire. It is simply a ground wire. My gauge is wired to light up (photo 6), easy to read, upon opening the bay door.
b. Other green wire. I have another green wire and there is a photo of its connection (photo 3,4). The other end however I do not know where it goes for it joins a bundle of wires and such to go off into another part of the coach. (photo 5)
c. Photo 6 is to emphasize the compressor on/off toggle switch that is installed right beside the gauge.
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: GleamB on December 13, 2017, 10:53:25 pm
Thanks you so much for taking the time to post those pictures, Michael. Greatly appreciated. Looks like a real good set up. I was on the phone today with a tech from HWH, asking about my mystery wire " to water trap solenoid ". He didn't have a good answer why there isn't a female connection for it. He did suggest, as you and Scott did, that I install a gauge on the compressor to know exactly what it's putting out. When I asked him where he thought was best, he was fast to say right where the air comes out, which would be at the top of the cylinder. I asked if he had any ideas of how I could tap into the small fitting for what appears to be 3/16" or 1/4" hose, and what gauge I should use, but he wasn't able to help. I imagine that I will use a plastic tee and adapt a gauge to the tee with some hose and a fitting. I have also received some advise from Roger and Susan, again a different location of his gauge than what HWH suggested. So I am still a little troubled with this part of the fix. I am not near a big enough town for good parts supply, and will be in Big Bend next week,which is even more remote, so this all may have to wait til we get to Tucson, in a bit. Thanks to all for your help. This is truly a great site. I love being part of the Foretravel fan club.
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: John44 on December 13, 2017, 11:17:37 pm
If your still in South Padre the area is full of oilfield supply stores that would have most of the parts you will need.
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: hdff on December 14, 2017, 07:49:43 am
I was under the coach again to get a better look at all things. I ran the compressor and it was leaking where the plastic bowl and the solenoid meet. I traced wires that are in question. The two wires that go from the solenoid below the leak both go to the small " green board ". One wire seems to connect to a post. The other goes thru a connector like the one I am missing part to. It also goes to the board, but looks as if it is soldered in. It is tagged " to exhaust solenoid ". The wire that has male only is tagged " to water trap." It goes to the green board where it looks soldered in. No female for it anywhere. I tried to release the plastic bowl so I can determine why it is leaking. I could not figure out how to release it. There is a black ring at the top of the plastic bowl, but I would have to get a channel lock on it.....IF I SHOULD TURN IT. If I have to turn the clear bowl, and leave the black ring alone,I fear that I can easily break it. So....how do I get the bowl out and what should I do about the disconnected wire.???
hold the bowl and unscrew the black ring, mine was a little hard but hand tight. not hard at all to remove. MOT replaced my bowl 2 weeks ago or you can get it from the HWH web site. if your missing a part to the connector you can cut the other part of the plug that's pictured above and butt splice it back together or add a switch between the 2 wires to be able to turn it off if needed somewhere down the road. the other wire is a ground and mine attached to a ground post on a solenoid, just remove the nut and take the wire off and the exhaust solenoid will be unhooked. you can unscrew it from the bowl when you get the bowl out of the coach to a work bench or table..
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: Michael & Jackie on December 16, 2017, 12:32:12 am
Important: I raised the question earlier in this thread that I did not think that an 01 engine compressor would pressurize the third tank that is pressurized by the aux compressor. I have just not had time to pursue this further but did today.......two salesmen and three techs told me that the third tank is cannot be pressurized by the engine compressor in normal operation.
This is important if you lose the aux compressor and think that you can compensate for that loss and manage the slide bladder by running the engine compressor to provide air to the third tank. IF things are operating as they should, this will not pressurize the tank but you will not know it UNLESS you have a gauge on the aux compressor third tank and can read and see there is not pressure in the third tank. If you, without the gauge, think that you provided air to the third tank and move the slide, thinking the bladder was deflated, you may tear the slide bladder. (The bladder is deflated and inflated by the air from the third tank)
Hope this makes sense, send pm and we can talk if need. There is a way to fill the third tank even if you lose the aux compressor so you need not be stranded. And, in my terms....not the techs or sales.....you I think may pressurize the third tank if a check valve fails and think it normal to pressurize by the engine. At least I think I saw that several years ago when check valves failed due to desiccant dust.
And I welcome if anyone says I am wrong and sets me straight that the third tank is filled on the 01 by the engine. But I thought not and I checked some experts today.
take good care of that aux compressor system!
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: jcus on December 16, 2017, 09:57:20 am
Important: I raised the question earlier in this thread that I did not think that an 01 engine compressor would pressurize the third tank that is pressurized by the aux compressor. I have just not had time to pursue this further but did today.......two salesmen and three techs told me that the third tank is cannot be pressurized by the engine compressor in normal operation.
This is important if you lose the aux compressor and think that you can compensate for that loss and manage the slide bladder by running the engine compressor to provide air to the third tank. IF things are operating as they should, this will not pressurize the tank but you will not know it UNLESS you have a gauge on the aux compressor third tank and can read and see there is not pressure in the third tank. If you, without the gauge, think that you provided air to the third tank and move the slide, thinking the bladder was deflated, you may tear the slide bladder. (The bladder is deflated and inflated by the air from the third tank)
Hope this makes sense, send pm and we can talk if need. There is a way to fill the third tank even if you lose the aux compressor so you need not be stranded. And, in my terms....not the techs or sales.....you I think may pressurize the third tank if a check valve fails and think it normal to pressurize by the engine. At least I think I saw that several years ago when check valves failed due to desiccant dust.
And I welcome if anyone says I am wrong and sets me straight that the third tank is filled on the 01 by the engine. But I thought not and I checked some experts today.
take good care of that aux compressor system!
Mike you are absolutely right. When I talked to Glen last week after you pointed this out, I asked him about it and he told me the PO had shown him how to do the "credit card test" before and after moving slide, to make sure seals are inflating and deflating. He said they were, so I assume that a check valve between main tank and 3rd tank is leaking by and pressurizing bladder tank. I believe he is looking for a place to put a gauge.
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: GleamB on December 16, 2017, 11:52:24 am
HI guys, Michael, thanks for looking further into this problem for me. You too, Jim. I AM concerned that we are going to be able to use or slide when we leave here, Monday. I deflated and filled just fine, last week. As I mentioned above, I had spoken to members here, and to a tech at HWH, and all recommended that I install a gauge. I was lucky to find a great supply house in Brownsville, Tx, and now have a gauge to install at the compressor. I cut the line coming out of the cylinder, as the HWH tech told me. Unfortunately, it is raining here, and I won't be able to install the gauge until it clears up, hopefully tomorrow. The joey bed would get soaked in an open position. I, also, found a metal fabricator in Brownsville who cut up (8) 2" x 2" x 1/4" tubing, for $40, so now I can safely pump up the coach and try and locate the leak, if there is one. I won't know anything until then. To complicate things, this campground is covered in sharp, little burrs that are even on the concrete slab. We can't walk our dog here....have to take him in the car to the nearby beach. So ......it' ALWAYS something....eh??
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: GleamB on December 16, 2017, 03:32:30 pm
UPDATE:
Installed the gauge. At 90# compressor shuts off. RESTARTS 1 1/2 minute later. Shuts off at 90#. Restarts 1 1/2 minute later. I think I have a leak somewhere. I will get under the coach tomorrow and take a peek. I think I might have a gauge on the third tank. We shall see. Any ideas ....I am listening.......
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: John44 on December 16, 2017, 03:37:34 pm
Try and find out at what pressure the compressor comes in at,may be a problem with the cut-in and cut-out pressures on the 12 volt compressor.
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: GleamB on December 16, 2017, 05:54:49 pm
How would I do that?
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: rbark on December 16, 2017, 07:07:44 pm
Watch the gauge you put in and the pressure should drop as air leaks from the system.
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: Michael & Jackie on December 16, 2017, 08:05:00 pm
pressure usually set to come on about 65 psi and cut out at about 85 psi.
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: Michael & Jackie on December 16, 2017, 08:10:00 pm
At the last Reply count, there are 83 or so questions and most by far are replies, answers and suggestions.
I got to looking back to check on a subject and the latest answers
In that I noted what I thought were quite a number of places to "like" the contributions that someone had made, to tap the Reply button.....SO, I went back thru to thank yous guys that helped. Sorry I did not do earlier. You are the best resource an owner can have and it takes lots of your time when you contribute.
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: AC7880 on June 03, 2018, 05:26:42 pm
What was the final resolution on this one?
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: GleamB on June 03, 2018, 06:26:38 pm
Dan,
I was able to operate my slide, with the aux turned off, for the balance of our travels. If I understand everything that was explained here, I guess I had a leak in a check valve, as I always ran the engine while operating the slide. The trip included Quartzite, Mexico, southern Cal, and then to Moscow, Iowa, where I had to have a new seal installed due to a "pinhole" leak in my bladder. While I was at HWH, I had them go over my aux compressor, and explained EVERYTHING to them. I must have said " leaking check valves" half a dozen times, and asked how we could determine if they needed t be replaced. They worked on another part of the aux compressor, replaced a solenoid looking part, and it seems to be working ok. I don't know what else to say at this point in tie but will monitor the situation and update this as time goes on. Thanks to everyone who helped me with this issue. You all were very helpful and supportive.
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: Michael & Jackie on June 03, 2018, 07:41:15 pm
time was about coach age that would get that bladder leak.....as did I, explained in thread about year ago. was hard to find the leak, recall MOT was not sure at first I was right about the leak as it would seem to self-close and miss it with the bubbles.
glad you ok
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: Tim on June 04, 2018, 07:27:53 am
Just competed a 10,000 mile USA trip with the aux compressor disabled. The coach has no slides. The compressor was running continuously when the coach was very unlevel, so I pulled the power.
Once HWH leveled the coach with the engine running, I turned HWH off and the coach remained level enough for a weeks worth of camping. The coach would list a little bit over a weeks worth of camping, but it was almost unnoticeable.
Now that I am back home, troubleshooting can begin. However, I am not sure if I want the aux compressor engaging while I am sleeping.
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on June 04, 2018, 07:38:43 am
Glenn, I don't have the air system schematic for your build number but if it is like mine and there are no check valve leaks the HWH bladder tank (which is the only thing that feeds the bladder manifold) can only get air from the HWH compressor.
No check valve leaks is the key thing here. Hving the engine pressureize this tank would be OK from my point of view.
Title: Re: compressor "cycling" every two minutes
Post by: Tim Fiedler on June 04, 2018, 10:57:34 am
you might run the positive wire up into the coach with a simple switch in the coach and then run the wire back down to the pump - in that way you could shut off and back on the pump from inside the coach whenever you wanted.
Tim Fiedler
Sure Start Soft Start (http://www.gen-pro.biz) - home of SureStart soft starters TCER Direct (http://www.tcerdirect.com) - home of Generac Approved Aluminum and Copper TCER Composite cable generator-gas-prod (http://www.generatorgasproducts.com) - home of X-Riser Gas Risers for PE installation Call me at 630 240-9139 Gen-Pro