Foretravel Owners' Forum

It can not be stressed enough that to use your FT generator to feed power to your house. Many have or will install a manual or automatic transfer switch to accomplish this life critical task.

This task can be accomplished with a simple manual transfer capability using only your current main breaker panel.  (Disclosure - I have no financial interest or any relationship with the company whose product I am about to discuss.)

Basically, yo install one of these in your current breaker main service panel:

Manual Transfer Switch Kits | Generator Interlock Kit (http://www.interlockkit.com/?gclid=CjwKCAiAmb7RBRATEiwA7kS8VPnxqM9KkDb6VkbsdyZiPARh7xAtj4kAt3RwLkkB9vriuPW0wFi1MBoC6aIQAvD_BwE)

The steps are as follows - you will need two empty slots in your main service panel.  In my case there were none, so (WITH THE MAIN BREAKER OFFF) we took out two "standard" single pole breakers and replaced them with two single pole "tandem" breakers.

here is what a representative "tandem" breaker looks like:

Square D Homeline 2-20 Amp Single-Pole Tandem Circuit Breaker-HOMT2020CP -... (https://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D-Homeline-2-20-Amp-Single-Pole-Tandem-Circuit-Breaker-HOMT2020CP/202353308?cm_mmc=Shopping%7CTHD%7CG%7C0%7CG-VF-PLA-D27E-Electrical%7C&gclid=CjwKCAiAmb7RBRATEiwA7kS8VJrUtfotkP9rKOoD1yhqWY2ELtNswOF6asZ-Hy5PtjyF9-xQaWItYRoCNKIQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds&dclid=COaHw-LvhdgCFcNkfgodABIMxg). 

The electrician then rewired the original  four circuits (two originally in the original breakers and two from the breakers that were removed to make space) to these tandem breakers (four in total in the panel) allowing two slots to be opened up in the panel

Into those two "opened up" (again, you may have two empty slots so this step would not be needed)  slots we put the "two pole" breaker which will handle the incoming load from the stand-by generator (your coach or any stand by generator - (I am using a Generac GP-7500E and 30 AMP breaker because I had it and after putting a soft starter on my AC compressor it will run the entire house if I don't run the stove, oven and AC at the same time. 50 amp can also  be also used if you are using your 10KW or 12 KW RV unit)  Here is a representative "two pole" breaker like the one we put in the space created in the panel:

Square D Homeline 30 Amp 2-Pole Circuit Breaker-HOM230CP - The Home Depot (https://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D-Homeline-30-Amp-2-Pole-Circuit-Breaker-HOM230CP/202353325)

OK, so space created in panel - new two pole breaker in the panel.  Next (WITH THE MAIN POWER OFF AT THE PANEL OF COURSE!!!) the electrician mounted an outside box on the exterior of the house with a 30 outlet installed in that box.  He ran the appropriate gauge wire to the panel for the 30 AMP service from the generator and terminated in the panel into the two pole 30 AMP breaker just installed into the panel.  In this way I can run the house off my GP7500E or my FT with the appropriate extension cord.

Of course at this point, this is a dangerous set of wiring because you could have the main power on and the power on to the standby generator.  That is a "no no" because at that point you are putting power back into the grid which could possibly electrocute a public service worker working on the lines and not expecting them to be live.

That is where the ingenious "Interlokit" device comes in.  You buy the one that fits your specific brand of panel by positioning your standby tandem breaker in the upper right corner of your service panel, the interlock device does not allow you to turn on the standby breaker if the main breaker is on, and you can not turn on the main breaker if the standby breaker is on.

To enable the use of standby power, you simply shut off the main breaker panel, slide the interlock up (into the space vacated by moving the main switch to off position) and flip on the 30 AMP two pole breaker allowing your standby power to flow into the panel and power all the circuits in the panel.

Ingenious, manual, cheap and fully code compliant.

Photo 1 - shows the tandem breakers used to replace two single pole breakers to create two empty spaces in the main service panel
Photo 2 - Shows the interlockit installed on front of panel - "normal position" utility power on, standby power blocked
Photo 3 - Close up of Interlockit in "normal" utility power on position with the device blocking the 30 amp 2 pole breaker from turning on with the main breaker in the on position
Photo 4 - Close up of Interlockit in "normal" utility power on position with the device allowing the main breaker on blocking the 30 AMP stand by breaker
Photo 5 - instructions for switching from Normal Utility power to stand by power

A couple of other models. You could almost make one yourself. Like you said, have to watch your power consumption, but a lot cheaper than standard transfer switch and subpanel.

generator sliding interlock - Google Search (https://www.google.com/search?q=generator+sliding+interlock&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjRiIqO-YXYAhXC3SYKHasfBsIQ_AUICygC&biw=960&bih=521#imgrc=5sX6dBMIYedvXM:)

Agree that there are cheaper options, my electrician was concerned RE the approvals on the lower cost models and quality - showed me one and I concurred, use the more expensive one - but probably fine for something this simple -

when I met with local inspector for inspection - he was high on this device, may be why my electrician was wanting to use it - or may be another invisible reason

Not enough $$$$ to matter consider how much was saved vs separate mechanical switch

Tim Fiedler

Sure Start Soft Start (http://www.gen-pro.biz)

TCER Direct (http://www.tcerdirect.com) generator-gas-prod (http://www.generatorgasproducts.com) 630 240-9139
Gen-Pro

Tim,
Thanks for the good write up on the "interlok" kit, a good thing to have and use for those who choose to wire a generator into their main panel. It could save someone's life, mainly a utility worker on a down line somewhere.

The problem I see with the RV supplying the house is that a lot of our coaches have the generator wired with parallel windings instead of series. They are 120v output only and the neutral conductor can be overloaded, and the 240v loads in the home will not work.

Often wonder why Foretravel did this instead of a more standard 120/240 volt, center tap neutral configuration.

Thanks Tim, This makes it easy for me to put my 100 amp box I use for the motorhome in the system. I already have the circuits in the panel along with the wires. I would only have to switch the breakers around and install the interlock. I always turn the main breaker off, but this adds the safety factor. I use my old '81 Foretravel with the 13.5 kw that provides 220v.

I have a small panel here with four breakers on each side. You run your loads to both sides and the supply to the left is isolated from the right. As you move the breaker on the left the corresponding one on the right does the opposite. (Turning on the left turns off the right and the other way around). You run supply from your house panel to the right and a supply circuit to the left. I haven't installed it yet but the plan is to have a plug mounted for the generator supply so that I don't have to pull wire through the whole house and will just keep a heavy gauge extension cord that plugs in to supply the panel and then run the cord out the door to the generator.

From what I see, the above legal breakers only transfer the hot wires, leaving all the neutral wires to be combined.  Normally a transfer switches both hot lines and the neutral wire, a safer way.

Speaking of (not) safe, and not legal, many have, in their home, installed a single outlet connected to one main panel leg, and another outlet connected to the other house leg.  Then made a cable with two male plugs on house end and a single male to be plugged into a motorhome outlet.  Turn off main house breakers, plug in two mail plugs, plug in motorhome end, start generator and whole house has electricity.

A another common alternative is to unplug house electric dryer, make a double ended male cable, turn off house breakers, plug in cable to house dryer outlet and motorhome.  This is similar to above, but utilizes existing dryer outlet.

Both of above will make power available on all house outlets, but all house loads need to be managed to not overload motorhome generator.  Due to previously mentioned if generator is only 120 volts, no more than 50 amps can be drawn on all outlets.  If generator is wired for 240 volts, current can be up to the limit of the house outlets and their breaker size, being used.  These same limits apply to the original above posting of the legal protector dual breakers.

We made a motorhome 'buddy' plug that can be used to supply generator power to home or another motorhome.  Wired a 50-amp female outlet to our existing main breaker panel to two open breaker positions, one for each leg.  We decided to use a dual pole 40-amp breaker for the new circuit.  Instead of installing a new 50-amp outlet box, we cut the male end off of a new 20' 50-amp extension, leaving the molded female on the cable.

My thinking on the answer to the above question on why Foretravel used 120 volt generators or wired a 240-volt generator as 120-volt . . .

Power company generators manage their loads so that all legs are balanced.  Small 240-volt generators are probably better served if their two legs are almost balanced.  But often times there is no way to balance RV loads and for extended times may be fully one sided with the other leg without any load. 

But high amp (100-amp, 12,000 watts or less) RV generators are probably wired 240-volt to assure the neutral never is loaded with more than 50 amps. 

Normally on 240-volt generators the neutral only carries the difference between the two 120-volt legs.  But on 120-volt generators, then neutral carries the sum of the two 120-volt legs. 

There is an existing potential problem with every RV that has a generator rated over 50-amps (6,000 watts) that is wired for 120-volts.  And because this problem is not widely understood, wires, connections and mainly transfer switches are stressed and damaged when total combined load is more than 50-amps for a sustained time.  As noted in an above posting, while the two hot wires can each safely handle 50-amps the common neutral is the weak point and can only safely handle 50-amps.

Please,
Please.
Please.
  Do NOT do the above to get power in your home.
  In another thread I mentioned an inexpensive way to get power to your home.  It costs $225.  More than likely less than a freaking tire and I hope NONE of you condone running on bad tires.
  Get it from Lowes (I have stock still in the company).  Get it from Depot, get it from Ace, I don't care but I love you all too much to see you get hurt.

Shop Generac 30-Amp Indoor 6-Circuit Transfer Switch at Lowes.com (https://m.lowes.com/pd/Generac-30-Amp-Indoor-6-Circuit-Transfer-Switch/4780699)

Almost all Newells come with a 50 amp "buddy plug" that will take an rv 50 plug. Of course most have 15 to 20 kw generators that power 220 v appliances, but are probably set up, wiring wise, for fairly balanced 110 volt loads also.

Just run an extension cord to the house for a lamp and stay in the motorhome till the power comes back on.

Interlock Switch vs Transfer Switch
John M.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GbtRxcb-cmA

I recently installed a Generac.  To power my home.  Lost electric one time.  Came right on.  Propane fueled.  Would not. Mess with motorhome generator. 

Where do you plug in on the motorhome generator?  Are your creating an outlet plug on the outside of the RV to go from the RV to house? Are you isolating the coach panel from the rv generator so only the house is being fed? Too much work and creativity. 🤪  If I didn't have the motorhome and was relying on a standalone portable generator the Interlock Switch is a great idea.

If I have to run my RV generator for power, I feel it's much easier to run an extension cord from the coach to my home refrigerator and stay in the coach till the power comes back on.  How often would we have to deal with a power outage?  Just my thoughts.  Keeping it simple. 😎
John M.

Can I ask what the Genrac and install cost?

Generac was free (long story), but here is the one I have online for $800

New Generac 5943 GP7500E 7500 Running Watts/9375 Starting Watts Electric... (http://www.progeneratorsale.com/new-generac-5943-gp7500e-7500-running-watts9375-starting-watts-electric-start-gas-powered-portable-generator-p-16.html)

Kit installed, with outside plug, cord from generator to plug, perils and labor from local electrician was right at $1K

So I have $1K invested, but could be done for approx $2K starting with nothing.

Now that the above dual male plug cheater cord method has been revealed, understand that even though many have this quick and cheap setup, we all know it is not a good idea.

Important to understand popular common alternatives, with their downside disadvantages.

Anything that can back-feed generator power into neighbor homes and others on the common side of the utility transformer is very dangerous.

And any dual male plug extension cord can create dangerous shocks.

While all large RV generators like Newells & Foretravel are always 240-volts, only users who turn on things can control balancing legs.  Generators running unbalanced will not break and they can handle unbalanced legs.  The balancing discussion is mainly to explain the 120-volt generator.  It just seems that everything installed in RV's have some limits or compromise, never enough power, water, holding tank, and managing these limited resources is always a good idea.

Double male end suicide cord can have both exposed prongs become energized should the power suddenly come back on.

Almost every home on Galveston Island has natural gas. So a lot of people bought ng s/b generators because of the chance of hurricanes. When Hurricane Ike hit the island, guess what the city turned off first, before electricity?
A lot of places, 3 weeks and an inspection, before it was turned on again. Luckily I had my coach with full tank of diesel.

Tim:  VERY educational post with pics! I can use this at my rural home where my FT is parked right next to my shop power pole (which also powers my septic system).  Thanks!  Bill Hoppe

Yup, you would "let the smoke out" of your generator and FAR WORSE, could kill a lineman working to restore power by back-feeding the grid.

The ONLY safe way to do this is with a complete (both hots and neutral) "disconnect source 1 before switching to source 2"

"While all large RV generators like Newells & Foretravel are always 240-volts"
If Foretravels have 240 volts, why can't we use that to power our houses with a simple a-b switch?

Our 10KW PowerTech is parrallel wired 120 volt only.

I see no problem doing that.  As already mentioned by several, make sure the switch does switch both hots and neutral.  And, still have to monitor loads, as there are more high amp loads in most homes than in motorhomes.

Where exactly would you get the 240 volts on a Foretravel?

Jim,

IF, repeat IF the generator supplies 240 VAC (between the hots) you could put an outlet anywhere you like.

Probably the easiest would be in the electrical bay.

I may be wrong, but have not seen 240 volts on my Foretravels when on gen power. I always thought that gens were wired to supply 120 volt only.

Re: simple a-b switch

Jim, what is a simple a-b switch that can handle your 200-amp normal house power and toggle 3 (#6) wires at the same time.

SQUARE D DOUBLE THROW TYPE 3R 82344RB 200AMP 480VOLT 3POLE NON-FUSIBLE... (https://www.ebay.com/itm/SQUARE-D-DOUBLE-THROW-TYPE-3R-82344RB-200AMP-480VOLT-3POLE-NON-FUSIBLE-REFURB/132166473828?epid=1010216871&hash=item1ec5bc5864:g:zXQAAOSwhlZYtt1z)
This one is expensive, found one for my bus conversion for $75.
Trouble is, with my Foretravel will not have the 220 volt necessary for my dryer or welder. Newell does supply 220 across the two hot legs.

In 1981 Foretravel built my all electric FTX It has a 13.5 kw. Yanmar generator. I believe it was modified with a radiator from a sail boat application as it has a 10 gal all electric water heater that is used in marine application. It has 240 volt supply. The transfer switch, if you want to call it that is an umbilical cord that you either plug into the outlet box on the motorhome or a pedestal. The only pedestal it has ever seen is here at the house. It will give me 100 amp service through the deadly male to male adaptor. I have been doing this for over 20 years so turning off the main has been my way to prevent feedback. I will try to set up the system Tim posted just to add another layer of protection.

Newell and some bus conversions have what's called a "buddy plug" just like the one in your FTX, except it is wired in parallel with coach so you can run the coach and anything else that is plugged into it. [within load abilities of the generator.] Never did, but was going to use the double throw switch I mentioned on my house, with a regular 50 amp plug on it, to plug into the coach. Physically impossible to backfeed with that type of switch.

Jim,
This is mostly correct, there are some cases that the gen is wired for 240 but most FTs are not.  You can go into the internal wiring on you generator and do some wire changing and have 240.  And to answer your next question No I won't explain how but the schematics in your generator book should show you how.

Pamela & Mike

Most generators of this size are 240 and can be changed back from 120 volts. Barry Beam does explain how.
However because my coach is set up for 120 only, pretty sure that would entail a lot of wiring changes. Not really worth it just for a dryer and welder.
Jim

I installed a 22KW.    Expensive but worth every penny.

Jim,

What size are you referring to?
It isn't much trouble at all to change from one voltage to another with your skill set it won't be hard. Just need to remember that your voltage regulator will only be seeing one leg.

Pamela & Mike

Meaning most 10 kw generators are wired to produce 240 volts and Foretravel just changed wiring to 120 volt. While in theory, in a 240 volt set up, one leg to neutral is 110 volt and all my circuits are 110, should work. But now we have a 240 volt potential throughout coach. My skill set is not good enough to identify all the possible problems that could arise. Foretravel wired the coach for 120 volts for a reason. I suppose I could tap 240 volts directly on generator, but as I said not really worth it to me.
 

Our genset is propane, 120v, 6.5kw. Not really enough. So we have a separate Onan diesel genset to run the house when the power goes out.