I asked about leaving the block heater on all night and into the day on another thread. I got good answers there, but then the thread morphed into a discussion of the ether system, so I thought I'd start a new thread on that topic.
I don't know if my coach ever had such a system. I don't see any evidence of a switch for it on the dash, and when the engine was rebuilt in January the tech didn't say anything about one. Where would I find indications that I either do or do not have such a system on my coach? I'm going to be at OTM in a little over a week, so I could always ask them, but I'd rather ask you. What should I look for?
Most are a beige canister about the dimension of a propane torch canister mounted in the engine room (visible from the back).
Our coach had ether. To the left of our steering wheel, near the parking brake knob, there is a rocker switch labeled (you guessed it) "ETHER". It is a momentary switch - only on while you hold it down. The rusty canister
was mounted on the engine compartment frame, just to the left of the alternator in the photo below. It's gone now. I decided we would never drive our coach in conditions requiring ether. Best laid plans...
Thanks, Bret and Chuck. I haven't found a brown cylinder in the engine area or a dash switch, ether. (Okay, that was a bad pun.) I'm guessing that this coach never had the ether system. Given that Foretravel used a different engine/transmission combination in every model they built back then, maybe some got the ether system and some didn't.
Anyone have a 1993 U300 WITH ether?
I would have thought you would have generated a multitude of comments re the Ether system as there are many very hard and fast views out there.
For a start I have it fitted, and do not intend to use it unless things get real bad on a cold start.
Speedbird1
Most Foretravel C8.3 engines have electric grid heaters in intake manifold to preheat engine. Adding ether when heater is on may cause an intake manifold explosion. Most M11 engines do not have intake manifold heater and were built with ether system, which most do not use and maybe should not use.
Mostly curious....
Where would one get a can of ether? NAPA?
https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/zerostart-5348/agriculture-hd-parts---accessories-19818/fleet---heavy-duty-20088/heaters---accessories-20113/diesel-fuel-warmers---heaters-19926/diesel-starting-fluid-cylinder/8200327/4871508
My ether system pushbutton is labeled cold start. BTW I had to move the coach temporarily tuesday when it was 16 degrees outside, started the propane genset, switched on the block heater, pretty sure running it for 15 minutes does nothing. Did not try the ether as my best guess it's the OEM original judging by the canister condition. It was grumpy, but started on the second attempt. Lots of white smoke. Drove it until Engine temp hit 175.
Yes, I agree. Block heater (on our C8.3) needs at least 2-3 hours to do much good, in my limited cold weather experience. Or if it's really cold, leave it on overnight, as is being discussed in another thread. I don't think the white smoke on startup
at those temps is anything to worry about, as long as it clears up when the engine starts to warm up a little. Give the block heater more time to work, and you'll probably see less smoke.
That stuff ain't cheap at O'Reillies
I dont have ether on mine, but with a block heater and never in a hurry when traveling, I would always choose 30 minutes of genset/block heater time prior to taking off. Even a short run of the heater puts enough heat into the ajacent cylinders that they fire nearly instantly leading to a much quicker, less smokey start. A few hours and it starts like its bermuda.
Ether start dispenses a measured charge per button push below 50 degrees F as the system is thermostatically controlled.
Block heaters require operating sub systems to work as does aquahot engine preheating.
Do c8.3's have a ether start dash switch?
Bob, if you read the post by Barry and Cindy you would know that C8.3 has a grid heater, I thought you were a Foretravel salesman, you should know that.
Not Bob, but I beg to differ. My C8.3 (mechanical, non-electronic) does
not have a grid heater, and
was equipped with ether from the factory.
Agree, but if you only used it a few times each Winter, it could potentially last a LONG time. The factory installed canister I removed from our coach still had some liquid (and a tiny bit of pressure) inside after 20 years!
Our 91GV has an ether injection sys. and a block heater. Have never used the ether sys and don't plan to, it is hard on the engine. Have a great day ---- Fritz
Yes or AZ/OR. It's called "Starting Fluid" and is cheap. Not labeled ether as too many young PU drivers would probably try and use it on their girlfriend.
Pierce
https://www.autozone.com/deicer-and-starting-fluid/starting-fluid/valvoline-11-oz-extra-strength-starting-fluid/7877_0_0
My old 71 series need a shot at anything under 30 degrees.
I am aware that Foretravel manufactured coaches over the years with many different configurations, so it makes sense that all C8.3 are not the same. But over time, Foretravel added quality features like manifold grid pre-heat, transmission retarder & powertech.
Grid preheat may not be compatible with ether spray upwind by an owner.
P
You won't need ether if you warm up your oil so your engine cranks at normal speed. The computer may give up after a few seconds if none of the cylinders are firing normally. Wait a moment and crank again and it'll probably get a few cylinders firing normally on the second attempt. I've never needed more than three attempts and it's always been because the computer gave up and made me try again. The block heater won't warm up the oil, so don't be surprised if you have difficulty starting in very cold weather even with the block heater on. Install an oil pan heater and forget all about the block heater and ether... by the way I'm talking about a two cycle Detroit Diesel with straight 40 weight oil, no doubt four cycle engines need less heat on the oil pan for cold weather starts
My four stroke cat cranks well with a new geared delco starter and 5w-40 synthetic in the sump. Straight 40 is like molasses at colder temps. Oil pan heat would almost be required!
I don't know of any 6v92s that came with OEM ether. You can always do your own by spraying it into your air filter while someone cranks the engine. I regard it as a measure of last resort. I carry a can but have never used it.
I would do as Pierce and use the ether on the generator and get it going then turn on the block heater and let it do it's thing while you fix some coffee and relax. If you're in a hurry do the engine instead. Just don't get carried away with the ether.
As in all things in life do what you have to do.
see ya
ken
It would be nice to have warm oil as the heat would rise to the rest of the engine. But you would have to leave it on all night. I put a backpacking stove under the oil pan of an old Mercedes diesel I had to get it to start up at altitude and even a gasoline Fiat 850 up at 8K and 10 degrees.
I never have a problem with the cranking speed. Even in the teens, it cranks fast. Just not enough heat from compression.
There is nothing in the DDEC ECU that will cause it to "give up" other than low voltage. The white smoke that is produced is from all the unburned diesel.
Pierce
I have a rocker switch "blank" labeled "Ether" but no switch or canister. Started yesterday at 28 degrees. Sluggish start but caught on second try with coupaus amounts of white smoke. Went away after about 30 seconds and ran fine after that. Batteries showing low charge rate though but would expect that due to the cold.
I have the rocker, as well, but it's not connected to anything. Are you sure you don't have a block heater?
As the former Foretravel sales manager mentioned above in this thread I assume if someone critizes someone's product knowledge and later turns out to be incorrect an acknowledgment of the error may be appropriate?
60 second crank times in cold weather and/or altitude is not unheard of.
I try not to heat the starter motor for more than 30 seconds but as you say, the total time may well be 60 seconds or more with copious amounts of white smoke choking the tent campers during but especially after starting. As I mentioned, I did completely melt the cable to battery connector trying to start in 17 degree weather at high altitude. ViseGrips came to the rescue.
Pierce
As a former skier I researched possible starting parameters of my then available engines. The 60 seconds was ok then a five minute rest then another 60 seconds.
As the 6v92 has a oil pan heater available like the most Cummins used here also seems to offer on our motors the external heater addition would seem to be relatively inexpensive and offer an additional backup starting aid which would seem to be in line with the general design of a Foretravel coach with multiple backups inherent when new
Those push button fuel injector heaters that the Airstream/Isuzu had sure worked great! ^.^d
Maybe someone took the ether system off. I remember someone on the forum taking about removing their system. I was a
heavy duty mechanic for years and had to get equipment going at 30 below. I have used lots of starting fluid (ether) and it won't hurt an engine if used properly. If you have a heater system (grid heater) you can't use starting fluid.
Bob, do you know where that thermostat is located? I was trying to test it when I bought the coach and never was able to make it work.
No I do not. I always told it was integral with the units head where the canister screws on?