Looking at replacing the tires on our coach before our "trip". Uniroyal RS20 seem to fit the budget, any thoughts or experiences??
Thx
Hans
Work quite fine for me. Made at Michelin North Amercia plant.
Works for me too, little over 1/2 the price of Michelin.
Are Uniroyal tires made by Michelin?
Michelin Group continued to operate the Uniroyal Goodrich Tire Company as its tire manufacturing unit in the United States and Canada.
When did Michelin buy BFGoodrich?
Michelin North America., Inc., makes B.F. Goodrich tires. The Goodrich Corporation, formerly called B.F. Goodrich Company, stopped making tires in 1988 and sold the business and the B.F.
Yes michelin makes uniroyal tires. I have to brother in laws that worked for Uniroyal here in Ardmore, Ok.
Michelin bought then in either 1987 or 1988.
Goodrich tires. The Goodrich Corporation, formerly called B.F. Goodrich Company, stopped making tires in 1988 and sold the business and the B.F. Goodrich name to Michelin.
Michelin Group. By May 1990, Michelin Group completed its purchase of Uniroyal Goodrich Tire Company from Clayton & Dubilier of New York. ... B.F. Goodrich surrendered its 7% warrant to Michelin Group for US$32.5 million.
What tires are made by Michelin?
It is one of the four largest tire manufacturers in the world along with Goodyear, Continental and Bridgestone. In addition to the Michelin brand, it also owns the BFGoodrich, Kleber, Tigar, Riken, Kormoran and Uniroyal (in North America) tire brands.
And Bridgestone owns Firestone. The only American companies are Goodyear and Cooper. Some of these are outsourced. Note that Continental Tire of Germany owns Uniroyal tires in Europe. Sort of like Wolf ranges, commercial and home having different owners now.
Good site for who owns what: who owns what tyre brands - Tyre Reviews (http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/who-owns-what-tyre-brands.htm)
Pierce
We bought our Uniroyal RS20's last February. Smooth ride and no issues after 17,000 miles.
It has been reported that Goodyear G159 Motor Home tires may be recalled as being defective. IF anyone has purchased these tires check with your dealer for a recall.
Wantabe
Goodyear 159's have not been in production in a very long time.
Said another way, if you have them, please tell us the date code!
Yokohama truck tires has a brand new USA plant up and running. IRRC correctly in Alabama or Mississippi. From what I have seen it is geared to 22.5 inch wheel size tires. Yokohama seems to be popular with the OTR truckers. Priced some and they were about $2400 for six H rated
295 width installed. I've owned ultra high performance Yokohama treaded sports car tires and they blew any competition away including Goodyear racing slicks at the SCCA national championship in 84 and 85.
I only have 1500 miles on my RS20's but so far so good. Once I got the air pressure set for my weight they ride really well. When I had too much air in them I could feel the tread squirm a little when I turned at low speeds.
After weighing all four corners this was the chart that Uniroyal used for setting RV tire pressures.
We are @ 110 psi Front
85 psi Rear
you are at 13,400 on your front axle? I am at 97psi front using that chart on my similar coach?
DO you have the same tire as Bob.
Believe the 97 320's only had 12000 lb. front axle capacity.
Front axle passenger side corner weight 6340 lbs
Front axle driver side corner weight 6540 lbs
The chart uses the heaviest side to set the axle tire pressure.
Bob,
I concur with others, you probably have a 12,000 lb axle and are over weight.
You might want to see what you can unload.
GAWR are on the GVWR plaque on wall outboard of the driver's seat.
Foretravel Vehicle Weight (http://beamalarm.com/Documents/foretravel_vehicle_weight.html)
Bill the chart and picture posted seems to for our Michelin XZA-3+'s.
We are right at the 12,000 pound rating and the "h" rating versus the "g" previous used allowed a 10 psi pressure reduction and that along with the newer design versus our -2's previously mounted resulted in a better riding coach.
If Bob's sidewall load/pressure rating is the same then maybe the Michelin chart can be used for the correct pressures.
I would definitely contact uniroyal as the construction differences, if any, may result in a different weight/ pressure chart?
Seems to be a 12,000 and a 13,200 rated MSR front axle listed currently
I think someone posted long ago that the actual front axle weight rating was higher than the 12,000 posted?
My chassis manual listed the manf. Model and weight rating of my front axle in the specs, but I have an ored
The uniroyal rs20 portal shows the max on a 275/80/r22.5 "H" rated is 6610 pounds at 120 psi.
You appear to be under inflated by almost 10 pounds on the front?
Not the same as the Michelin chart shown. Minus 550 pounds capacity at 120 psi.
Sidewall should say 6610/120 single?
Xza-3+ is 7160 at 120 psi single.
Bob,
The chart I posted was from Uniroyal tech. support. I asked if the tire pressure setting was flexible as this coach has a fuel tank adjacent to the front axle. Burning off approx. 15 gallons would enable a lower cold tire pressure setting per the chart @105 psi. They advised me to always set the pressure at maximum corner load. As I am not a tire expert I have to conclude that they know more about their product than I do.
Rudy,
As to our coach the axle is rated for 12350 lbs. per the cockpit tag. From what I can determine FT replaced the generator in the early 2000's from the 3 cylinder Isuzu to a four cylinder Kubota, which I presume added extra overhung weight. The coach is lightly weighted on the front end with our possessions.
I am no expert, but isn't the max pressure for the RIMS 120?? and if so, after driving around on hot pavement, doesn,t the air pressure in the tire increase by About 10 #s ??
The rim pressure max limit is also set at cold. The higher pressure when hot is figured in. Both tires and rims can get over 120 safely.
Bob I sure would look at the tire sidewall as I stated? Maybe at the time uniroyal did not have the chart I just searched and found?
The 6610/120 on the rs20 chart should match the tires?
At 12,350 would match the "g" stock tires at 6150 at 120?
Maybe they used the 13,500 pound front axle as the rating is past the 12,000 unit
Had a older SOB coach and weighed it. Found front axle was 15260 lbs, but was only rated for 14000 lbs. Called the factory and they told me it was actually a 16000 lb axle, but because tires in those days were only rated at 7000 lbs, they had to rate the axle at 14000. Newer tires can handle the extra weight.
I have new RS20's and cannot tell any difference from the Mich's I replaced. They will need replaced in 5-6 years and will likely have little tread wear. As someone said in a previous post "round, black and hold air". I cannot justify the extra $$$ for Michelin...I am sure others can.
I have these tires too. Put 5000 mile on this year very happy. This is the chart I was given to use.
https://www.michelinb2b.com/wps/b2bcontent/PDF/Uniroyal_Truck_Data_Book.pdf
Went shopping yesterday found RS 20, 275/80-22.5 in Oregon complete, mounted and balanced no sales tax in Or. for $350/ea
Hi Nancy
that sounds like a good deal. Would you mind sharing the name and location of the tire shop.
Mike.
Uniroyal RS20's size 275/80-22.5, 7.50 rim only come "H" Rated. I got a price of $350/ea total from Basin Tire in Klamath Falls, Or.
Many thanks Nancy.
Mike.
Suggestion to anyone replacing the rears, might be a good time to replace shocks at the same time when the rims are off, makes things a lot easier.
My personal reason for changing to the latest highest payload Michelin's run at lower pressure and to install Koni FSD were specifically to try to counter our California concrete block freeways sharp cross edges rough ride.
Xza-2's at 107 and 97 psi rear and the original Koni red tops readjusted three times rode rougher than we like and kicked back fairly hard on square edges and if set softer on the shocks had too much body roll.
All four upper wheel well openings have a lot of damage to the floors underside showing the blue foam from long term too soft/worn shocks and the coach still kicked back on the freeways.
With the 7160 pound rated at 120 psi "h" Xza-3+'s at 97 psi front and 87 psi rear respectively for our actual load and with the FSD's installed the latest tech tires finally allow a reasonable non jarring ride on our overused so cal freeways.
On nicer roads than we have here the differences we needed to try to fix our issues may not be as needed and the differences would not be nearly as noticeable.
On out of state nice interstate highway's our previous zxa2's ride was similar to our newer tires.
Many here report that their other brand newer tires rode and drove similar to the older Michelin's on their roads which is what I would expect.
I could have probably saved some of the money we spent and received nearly as good of results if we did not live here.
Judging by the good reports from the other tires from many owners here they seem to be using their coaches on better roads than we have?
In my (limited) experience, I'd say pretty much
any place (west of the Mississippi River) has (on average) better roads than California.
The different roads thing finally came to my old brain as the other tires and/or higher pressure that are reported to be similar to the older Michelin models are not as nice of a drive here in beat up roads in California made up out of concrete block with joints. So it seems the tire selection and needs somewhat depends on what kinds of roads you intend to use your coach on.
The more expensive work better overall if you intend to drive in ca. If not maybe not noticeable as much to most.
Learned something from this. Which is good.
I am very happy withe 295/75/ mounted on my 7.5 rims. They are snug in the 42in wide fenders at 39.6 tall. But never hit at travel height.
We also live in California and with 110 psi all around plus a little more rigid sidewalls in our (mostly) Coopers, we just don't have a problem. Around the time of the Olympics in Salt Lake, quite a bit of $$ started to be spent on roads heading toward San Francisco. Our twin cities where we live got new off ramps, nice faux stone work, etc. The highways also received their share of new paving but areas are still to be found that need work. Sacramento is mostly done now. Our secondary roads are in good condition so that should not be a problem for anyone.
The toll roads back east including the Detroit area are much worse that anything I've ever seen in the Golden State. Overloaded trucks wear grooves in the road so you have to turn the wheel to get out of the valleys and then suddenly, you are in the next lane. I still remember driving in the left lane to avoid the canyons in the right lane on our coast to coast trip. The road around the GM plant in Detroit could be used to torture test new vehicles or tires.
With inexpensive fuel because of the low road tax in the U.S., you can't expect Autobahn quality highways. You get what you pay for.
Pierce
Hans & Marjet,
You will need corner weights to properly set the tire pressures.
Bob
Bob......only front/rear axle scale around here.
Max permissible weight is at max pressure. That's why I've always run 110 (max for the tire) cold all around. Alcoa wheels are stamped for max allowable pressure. 120 psi on ours. Since they are forged, they won't fail at any pressure but the tire bead security is max at that pressure.
Pierce
Had the Uniroyals installed and coach weighed...So what the correct air pressure. 9150lbs Front, 19340lbs rear
Here's the chart
Many years ago tried max tire pressure, found ride rough and hard on the coach. Adjusted pressure to actual weight plus 5 or 10 lbs. Better ride and handling. Never had a problem running at tire manufacturer's recommendations.
I do use an ir gun to check tire temps when travelling.
Milwaukee Laser Temperature Gun Infrared 10:1 Thermometer-2267-20 - The Home... (https://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwaukee-Laser-Temperature-Gun-Infrared-10-1-Thermometer-2267-20/206260202)
OK, MUCH better/easier to read.
Were it my coach, I would start with 85 front. If ride too hard, reduce to 80. Rear 95.
And, as moderator, I will go back and delete the posts based on the very difficult to read table excerpt so we don't totally confuse the issue.
So, everyone, please feel free to comment based on the readable chart.
Thanks.
So....Yesterday after the install I asked the guy's what pressure on the tires...response "120" as the UniRoyal" recommended.
Drove towards home.....got lost 'ANOTHER STORY"..... all felt good....but I still have a shimmy when applying the brake hard....PS
had the rotors checked for "runout" all OK....
Thoughts..???
What does 120 as the UniRoyal recommended mean?
It might mean they figure the DW collects rocks at each stop? :-\
120lbs pressure
Lot of rocks, 120 psi will support 37240 lbs. Mike is that your coach at the side of a house in Ajo?
On the side of the tire (if you have good glasses on) will be information in small print as to the capacity in pounds and the pressure for that capacity. Since the maximum pressure is also the maximum load the tire will carry, it's probably what he meant.
Go under the coach with someone at the wheel rocking it back and forth. Check for worn tie rod ends, other suspension/steering components. That could be causing the problem. Good to have strong flashlight as the wear may be hard to see. Did you have any shimmy before the new tires?
As the rotor wears towards minimum thickness, it may distort when it becomes hot and can give a little shimmy when the brakes are applied. I just put a new set of drilled/vented rotors on our car. No runout but when they get hot, it develops a shimmy, bad when really hot. A lesson in aftermarket rotors.
Pierce
No, we're at Shadow Ridge RV Resort. The GV belongs to a friend, has not run for years, sad story. I inspected it last year, also sad.
I am confused, is the chart you posted not the UniRoyal recommend pressures for your weight?
I thought you wanted help in determining the right pressures.
Hans & Marjet,
The tire pressure chart I previously posted came directly from Uniroyal technical support. I questioned them about the axle weight chart and was advised that it was not recommended for RV's. Corner weights can be achieved on a truck scale with a little ingenuity.
How to Weigh Your RV (https://www.rvtechmag.com/docs/weighing.php)
Bob
Your tire guy is wrong. He just quoted the max cold tire pressure permissible. Set pressure based on actual weight of the coach.
Jim I do want the correct inflation pressures....I just quoted what the tech told me after the installation. " i set the pressure @ 120 as the tire folks recommended"
Pierce...Yes I did have the shimmy before the new tires...but not all the time.....if the brakes are used extensively..it does not happen.
When brakes are cold its prevelant..
H
That's the same trash our installer told us.
Your weights are a little over mine. ( I have to rescale after removing both Curb side chairs and some other stuff) MY tires are 295/75/-H LR. My table showed about 85# front and 82 Rear .
I tried 100X6 and it rode harsh . Now i run at 90X6 and it is much better. Still well over the chart values by about 6#.
Short story is run as much as you can tolerate . If you have a data port or boost gauge, put the pressures up to 105 X6, run the bus down the road about 10 miles in both directions on cruise, ( not in any draft!! ) watching the % throttle value or power level or boost value. Let the air down 10#, run it again recording the average power levels . My guess is that at about 85# you will see a couple % increase in required power or .5-1 # boost. That means that it takes more fuel to run less pressure.
Make your pressure settings based upon your priorities. Someplace between max fuel and max ride . IMHO.
Run at least the chart lower end plus 5-6# for safety .
Our Meritor brakes are unique to some motorhomes and fire trucks. I think it is possible that you have a rotor problem. Not very many shops know much about the brakes you have. I would go down to your fire department and find out where the maintenance shop/master mechanic is and then ask about your symptoms as well as asking who does their work or if it's done in house. I have the Meritor service manual with part numbers if needed.
What Mike/Protech racing says is true. But anytime you see a percent increase in required power, you also see an increase in tire temperature. High tire temperatures combined with hot weather are a recipe for failure or impact damage. Low pressure also means the tire can't support as much weight. One of the reasons I run all at 110 psi. If it effects the ride, then reduce it a little until it's passable. Our ride is fine at 110.
Pierce
Pierce what exact tires are you running?
Normal function as far as I know is for any tire to increase its temp in use.
My car has temp/ pressure gauges on all wheels. Pressure rises ten percent in use.
Thats using the manufacturers tire pressure on the door opening.
Tried up to 10 pounds more if racing and all added about the same percentage temp
I can see why the tech, might have said max. inflation. Many rv's, tt's, and 5th wheelers are designed without regard for side to side loading. Some units may have a water tank on one side and when filled, that side [and tire] are more heavily loaded than the other side. Or factory gives a weight without fuel, water, propane etc.
I think James T. at FOT once said every Foretravel coach was designed to have a max of 250 lb difference side to side on one axle no matter what was in the tanks, so you can basically set your tire pressures by the axle weight. Of course it is better to get 4 wheel loading, just to be sure. [Maybe DW did leave a pile of rocks in one side of a compartment].
Think UniRoyal is just CYA in case some one has a coach with 6100 lbs on one tire and 4500 on the opposite one.
We have all Coopers except for one new Firestone. No pressure gauges or equalizers. I check every 3-4 days while on the road as well as thumping them. These have average sidewall flex/radial bulge but not as much as some. Good steering with no wandering. No tread noise.
Tires will increase temperature some on winter days and a lot in hot summer weather. All pressure specs on the side of tires are for cold inflation. Tires will take well over 300 psi without blowing out. Alcoa wants to make a very conservative max on their wheels but since they are forged, they will never fail. Even in accidents, they bend but won't break a piece off like cast aluminum. No tire pressure adjustment during the day no matter how hot it gets.
We just happened to run Coopers at the fire dept. We maxed the pressures on every piece of equipment and checked on the once a week service day. The 10.00-20s were inflated to their 100 psi max and the 11.00-20/22.5s to their max rated pressure of 110 psi. All cars, etc were to max spec pressures.
Our fire chief left his car running outside of his house for a quick stop. Someone stole it and headed through town and then north on Highway 101 at maximum speed. The city police took up the chase but every police car had massive blowouts at the high speeds. It took the CHP (with different tires) to keep up with the guy and finally stop him. A good recommendation for Coopers and having the correct pressures in the tires.
I ran four different pressures on my race car for circle tracks and different pressures for a road race course like Willow Springs. I think it was something like 17 psi front left, 35 psi FR, about 38 RR and 36 LR for tracks like Saugus. A lot depended on track temp and condition.
Our fire apparatus in responding to emergencies made maximum use of the brakes with near lockup at every red light/stop sign as well as making turns as fast as was safe. Not a place for a poor performing tire.
I can't think of a bus or trucking company that does not max out the recommended cold pressure.
While I max out the pressures on our car, the Bridgestones on the RAV4 give too hard a ride at their 55 psi max so I drop it down into the 40s. I did try a set of Coopers on the RAV and while they were very quiet and had a soft ride, they had poor turn in. Bridgestone did not have the lower profile tire I wanted so I will go back to my favorite all around tire for the RAV, the General Altimax the next time. Great handling, snow, etc and almost no noise when new. I find all tires on our AWD start to make noise after about 30K and then becoming progressively noise with more mileage.
Pierce
Pierce thanks for your reply. The only mention of the 10" tires goes way back.
Maybe it's time for those interested to help me do a what I thought was a valid inflation test for traction I used long ago.
We were skiers back 30 years ago and dry camped many times and drove on icy roads countless times.
My want was to not be driving on the center or conversely the edges of the tires in low traction uses.
You may all laugh with your superior knowledge thirty years later but let me tell you the test I did with literally a hundred foretravel owners including the first unihomes with the Xza pilots on them.
I would find an area where there was nice white concrete and a water puddle next to it.
Slow speed through the water then onto the concrete. Short distance. As the tires dried off the contact patch showed the evenness of the carcass pressure on the ground.
You may see where this is going. Over inflated the edges dried out first. Under the opposite.
Slight arc so you could separate the front and rear tracks.
Five pounds difference would change the patterns.
No idea if this was correct or if it still works but I did several a day sometimes with owners.
Everyone was a skeptic.
The even dry out patch matched the pressure/load calculations exactly.
You might assume the tire makers chart was arrived at with a sensored test to measure the contact pressure across the tire?
I do remember seeing something like this long ago I think.
Stands to reason as otherwise why not just inflate every tire to max. Why bother with the charts at all?
Altering the tire
This sheet was handy for pressures when tire sizes were changed. Sent it to Michelin and they replied with much less than 110 lbs. ! ^.^d
Bob,
The charts are nice in the forum world but do you think for a second that 18 wheelers change pressure as their load changes or buses change pressure as passengers get off an on?
Pierce
So , do you run 85 all around?
True dat, they max the pressure and roll! What Michelin told me, is RVs sit from time to time, and that's the where the psi problem happens. Case in point: when we bought the coach, the PO (not Brett!) told me that he always ran 70 lbs. Seemed low to me, but being a different model tire, I believed him. WRONG! Michelin told me that 70lbs could wreck a tire if it was sitting too long. After they looked at Brett's chart they told me 85 in the bow and 80-85 in the stern. Therein is a darn good reason to know the coach weights and what the mfgr. specs! ^.^d
This is about cars, but do not see why it does not apply to truck tires also. With busses and trucks, the driver will probably not know what his load is, or is going to be, so max inflation pressures are prudent to cover all possibilities.
With your coach, once you weigh it in travel condition, it will probably stay within a 1000 lbs of that figure unless you add some more gear or equipment. In this case, best to follow the manufacturers recommendations for best ride and traction.
Over-inflated tires are a bad idea – WHEELS.ca (https://www.wheels.ca/news/over-inflated-tires-are-a-bad-idea/)
Mike,
I wish I could find the PDF on storage and ultra low speed tire pressure. If a coach is close to gross weight, a large increase in tire pressure is recommended while stored or jacking the vehicle to reduce the weight carried by the tires. Heavy machinery that travels under 5 mph also has to increase pressures over the recommended maximum. Michelin also recommends replacing any tire that has lost pressure enough to collapse it. I do move the coach every couple of weeks so the tires don't sit on one spot.
The majority of tire gators you see on the highways are from retreads. Other than a piece of steel that ruined a sidewall, the U300 has gone over 40,000 miles and my bus went many more miles without any tire problems using my "keep it maxed it out" approach. We never had a problem with tires in the FD either.
Would you also run your car at the tire max pressure/load rating? Most auto tires have the max load at 45-50#. The car requires maybe 32 - 40 # for the designed ride,wear and road holding.
It appears that your bus tires are 15 - 20 # over optimal /design value. Is that the way you see it also?
Maybe I dont get it, but weighing the bus,and consulting the tire chart gives us a valid pressure . In the above coaches, mine included , the front load is sub 9500# and the chart says about 85- 88# for 295/75 -Hrated tires .
Also true for extended storage tires are put way up . The instructions will also state to reduce the pressure to the correct values before you drive.
When I first got my 34 ft, I ran 105 psi in the front tires just like my previous heavier 40 ft coach. I thought the coach needed a front end alignment because it seemed to need a lot of corrections, especially on crowned roads. Called the FOT alignment guy and he told me to weigh the coach and set pressures according to manufacturer's specs for the load before I brought it in. I did, and lowered pressures to 90 psi. What I thought were alignment problems disappeared with the new lower pressure.
Have a friend with a CC the same age and size as my 95 U295. He runs 100 to 110 in all tires and complains about having to "chase" the wheel constantly. I run 85 to 90 and have no problem. I know, I know, I have a FT and he has a CC.
No wandering or chasing here unless I've had a margarita or two and with the DW in the right seat, I don't do much chasing anymore! Failure to go straight down the road is usually alignment and not tire pressure. A little toe in generally is all that is needed. Some tires brands/models DO seem to track better. Worn shocks with different rates also will make a coach move from side to side depending on the road.
Pierce
I know this is an older thread, but wanted to thank you all for posting it and commenting on it!
One of the tire shops I have been working with just called me and suggested the Uniroyal RS20 as a good load range H tire to replace our aged out tires. The Michelins I wanted aren't readily available in our area in a load range H. The price on these Uniroyals is much less than new load range G Michelins through the FMCA program.
I am very grateful folks have shared their experience with this tire.
Chris
With a 36' coach you will probably be ok with the load capability of the Uniroyal.
Check the load charts on Uniroyal. The H rated Uniroyal chart shows it carries less load then other major brands H rated.
Uh oh question on tires (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=33274.msg301637#msg301637)
Reply # 61 in the thread.
Michelin does have Load Range H in their tire model that superceeds the XZA+.
Dan and Barry,
Thank you for your replies and helping to ensure we don't get into trouble with the tires.
For archives and searching purposes I've included the inflation table for 270/80R22.5 tires from page 18 of the 2018 Uniroyal Truck Data Book below, and a link to the PDF. The 275/80R22.5 tire capacity exceeds the GAWR of the front and rear axles on our 1998 U-320 36' (12,350 lbs front GAWR, 20,000 lbs rear GAWR). The tires can carry 870 lbs above the front GAWR, and 4,000 lbs above the rear GAWR. The RS20 will do the job with a bit of margin, and hopefully that will help the tires run cooler.
We're replacing all six tires, and we aren't full time. The tires will age out before they wear out. The RS20 seems to be a good balance between capacity and cost. When buying six new tires, the RE20 is a significant savings over many of the load range G Michelins available through the Michelin Advantage program.
Chris
Link to PDF:
2018 Uniroyal Commercial Truck Data Book PDF (https://www.michelinb2b.com/wps/b2bcontent/PDF/Uniroyal_Truck_Data_Book.pdf)