Would these be a good battery for either house or engine looks like a good buy
Deka/MK AGM 8A8D Battery. Two available. Selling for $395.00 ea.
12v, 245Ah@20hrs, 1450 CCA,
Made in USA by East Penn Mfg.
Purchase date: Oct '16.
These were part of a solar system. Used less than 6 months. Service life: 8-10 yrs. Retail for $695 ea.
Application: Solar, Marine, RV, Industrial
If they load test OK, and aren't physically damaged, and you can pick them up locally (no shipping charges), might be a good deal.
BUT, you can buy the equivalent battery from O'Reilly for about $50 more (each). For that small difference in price, I think I'd rather have new fresh batteries. Plus the parts store guys will swap them out for you. NO LIFTING. ^.^d
Voltage good one minute: gone the next (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=32217.msg288965#msg288965)
I got three of the O'Reilly AGM 8A8D's new for $350.00 each by having a friend with an O'Reilly account purchase them for me.
AGM is what I want, Right? So I don't have to mess with filling etc. Trying to get away from battery maintenance somewhat.
Yes. I'm surprised you don't have an O'Reilly account
Stump...........as an OTR trucker.
The mk's are extremely well made. As long as they never went dead in use and test ok I think I would be a player myself. I have no knowledge of where o'riellly sourced their AGM's so I have no comparison,
My personal way to try to see would be to see if both batteries weigh exactly the same. If so they may well be both made in the same factory with different labels.
If not the same I would think they were not the same battery.
Any AGM Is a VRLA battery and is a "wet" battery versus gels.
Any "wet" battery can need equalization if improperly charged over a long enough time and the only AGM that can be equalized is the lifeline ones.
Magnum inverters have two AGM settings internally. One for the other AGM'S and the second profile and higher charging voltage Is for lifelines only and that profile allows auto equalization if needed.
Translation, please.
What does 8A8D signify?
I have a Oreillys account I just have not been pricing batteries I looked at the lifelines the other week then saw these on Craigslist and was wondering if they would be good for RV service, vs the wet cell acid batterys I have now. The wet cells are just more messy and I would like to not have to mess with them as much.
Yes, they are as you descibed. I'm happy with mine from O'Reilly but I'm not trying to live off the grid either. At $350.00 per and free installation ........................ you can't beat 'em!
Good point about the not living off the grid use. Those who do not travel as much from pedestal to pedestal maybe can better justify the extra money for the double cycle life of the gels?
Stump,
O'Reilly normally sells them for about $450 each. I got them for $400 each by buying three of them. And they did all the lifting of removing and reinstalling the new ones. (Although getting into this particular location was not trivial.) Probably not that big of a deal for you with your DW to help! ^.^d
With an account (?), you may be able to get a better deal. But maybe not a better battery at those kinds of prices.
Good luck,
Trent
I've used Penn Deka batteries for 40 years and in my opinion there's none better for common lead acid batteries. I use them in boats, buses, construction equipment, and vehicles. I've no experience with AGMs, but if Penn Deka made'ed I'd buy them.
Wantabe
I had Deka AGM 31 series in my last coach for both house and chassis. They lasted 11 years (with smart charger and smart solar charger) before needing replacement.
At the end, a couple started outgassing and overheating. 11 years on them was pretty good in my opiniion.
I show my PO bought two Lifeline GPL-8DL house batteries in late 2014 for $627.98 each, (not including installation!).
This is the O'Reilly listing for the AGM8D and I believe they give a military discount. Also below is a picture of my three 4 1/2 year old East Penn AGM 8Ds and a picture of the O'Reilly AGM8D. Notice the similarity in the cases, same weight, same cold cranking amps. https://www.oreillyauto.com/search/2004/lexus/gx470?q=agm8d
Specifications for the East Penn/Deka Intimidator AGM 8D SKU 8A8D, Brand East Penn/Deka
Battery Voltage 12 Volt, Cranking Amps 1800 CA, Cold Cranking Amps 1450 CCA, Amp Hour Rate 245 Ah
Reserve Capacity Minutes 480 Minutes, BCI Group Size Group Size 8D, Battery Type Deep Cycle, AGM (Absorbed Glass Mat)
Dimensions Length 20-3/4", Width 11", Height 10", Weight 161 Lbs Warranty 12 Months
Penn AGM's seem to a very good value. The extra 60 amp hours for 3 versus gels gives an additional 30 amp hours per cycle especially if drawing them down a lot. Being as they are not capable of being equalized I would be extremely vigilant on correctly charging them for temp and charge rate to lessen any chance of reduced capacity. Including any solar input.
The more expensive lifelines are supposed to take a charge faster per their web site and are capable of being equalized as long as you have a charger made to equalize them specifically.
Both are "wet" batteries and if mischarged can release gases hence the Valve Regulated description. Would make sure they are in a vented location in event of a gas release.
Another choice.
Fullriver Battery DC260-12 Product Information (http://www.fullriverbattery.com/product/batteries/DC260-12)
http://resources.fullriverbattery.com/fullriver-battery/spec-sheets/DC260-12.pdf
FullRiver 8D batteries are 260 amp hrs at 20 hrs. They are sealed, spillproof, non-hazardous.
Bob, why do you call AGM batteries a wet battery.
AGM's are wet but not flooded.
That's why. Flooded cell and AGM are considered "wet" batteries. Similar chemistry it see seems. That's probably why Foretravel equipped every unicoach ever made with updated non "wet" gel batteries. Different chemistry. Hard to get to vent. Can be enclosed totally. Double cycle life. No equalization. Top of the line stuff in a $400k coach new
This wont add to the thread but I removed 3 wet 8 D's from my rig. Me personally will not have another wet battery in my bay because of the gassing and accumalating corrosion as mush as 3 feet from the batteries. They were going to eat down my coach. For those that stay with wet keep a watch for corrosion on metal far beyond the battery terminals.
"Another choice.
Fullriver Battery DC260-12 Product Information
http://resources.fullriverbattery.com/fullriver-battery/spec-sheets/DC260-12.pdf
FullRiver 8D batteries are 260 amp hrs at 20 hrs. They are sealed, spillproof, non-hazardous."
I just replaced my house batteries with FullRiver 8D's in September. I'll let you know in 6-7 years how they held up. ;-)
Here's a pretty good write up:
Battery Types: Flooded versus AGM and Gel (http://www.vonwentzel.net/Battery/01.Type/index.html)
I have 4 L16 size Full River DC400 6 volt batteries that take up the same footprint as 2 8Ds and have 830 amp hrs capacity. Five yr warranty in a solar energy installation, two years otherwise.
http://resources.fullriverbattery.com/fullriver-battery/spec-sheets/DC400-6.pdf
Lots of options out there, something for everyone.
Hey guys,
where did you purchase the Full Rivers?
I got mine at AA Battery in Minneapolis. In stock, nice discount, nice credit for cores. Picked them up, no shipping.
Distributors of Fullriver Batteries (http://www.fullriverbattery.com/distributors/north-america)
US Battery and Trojan are good alternatives to FullRiver
Collections – Metroplex Battery (https://www.metroplexbattery.com/collections)
Is a good source as is
DC Battery Specialists - Wholesale Batteries (http://www.dcbattery.com)
To help clarify previous comments, and because "technically the AGM battery is still considered to be a wet cell". (see last paragraph, in blue font)
"Basically, there are two types of lead acid batteries (along with three sub categories). The two main types are starting (cranking), and deep cycle (marine/golf cart). The starting battery (SLI starting lights ignition) is designed to deliver quick bursts of energy (such as starting engines) and therefore has a greater plate count. The plates are thinner and have somewhat different material composition.
The deep cycle battery has less instant energy, but greater long-term energy delivery. Deep cycle batteries have thicker plates and can survive a number of discharge cycles. Starting batteries should not be used for deep cycle applications because the thinner plates are more prone to warping and pitting when discharged (this warping can cause a shorted cell, failure). The so-called Dual Purpose Battery is a compromise between the two types of batteries, though it is better to be more specific if possible.
Wet cell (flooded), gel cell, and absorbed glass mat (AGM) are various versions of the lead acid battery. The wet cell comes in two styles; serviceable and maintenance free. Both are filled with electrolyte and are basically the same. I prefer one that I can add water to and check the specific gravity of the electrolyte with a hydrometer.
The gel cell and the AGM batteries are specialty batteries that typically cost twice as much as a premium wet cell. However, they store very well and do not tend to sulfate or degrade as easily as wet cell. There is little chance of a hydrogen gas explosion or corrosion when using these batteries; they are the safest lead acid batteries you can use. Gel cell and some AGM batteries may require a special charging rate. If you want the best ,most versatile type, consideration should be given to the AGM battery for applications such as Marine, RV, Solar, Audio, Power Sports and Stand-By Power just to name a few.
If you don't use or operate your equipment daily (so you are storing your batteries fully charged), AGM batteries will hold their charge better than other types. If you must depend on top-notch battery performance, spend the extra money. Gel Cell batteries still are being sold, but AGM batteries are replacing them in most applications.
There is a some common confusion regarding AGM batteries because different manufactures call them by different names. Some of the more common names are "sealed regulated valve," "dry cell," "non spillable," and "valve-regulated lead acid" batteries. In most cases, AGM batteries will give greater life span and greater cycle life than a wet cell battery.
SPECIAL NOTE: It's common for individuals to use the term "gel cell" as a generic term when referring to sealed, maintenance-free batteries, much like one would use Kleenex when referring to facial tissue. As a result, be careful when specifying a gel cell battery or gel cell charger, as many times it is used by a user or sales facility in error.
AGM BatteryAGM: The Absorbed Glass Matt construction allows the electrolyte to be suspended in close proximity with the plates active material. In theory, this enhances both the discharge and recharge efficiency. Common manufacturer applications include high-performance engine starting, power sports, deep cycle, solar and storage battery. The larger AGM batteries we sell are typically good deep cycle batteries and they deliver their best life performance if recharged before allowed to drop below the 50% discharge rate. The Scorpion motorcycle batteries we carry are a nice upgrade from your stock flooded battery, and Odyssey branded batteries are fantastic for holding their static charge over long periods of non use. When deep cycle AGM batteries are discharged to a rate of less than 60%, the cycle life will be greatly reduced.
GEL: The gel cell is similar to the AGM style because the electrolyte is suspended, but it's different because technically the AGM battery is still considered to be a wet cell. The electrolyte in a gel cell has a silica additive that causes it to set up or stiffen. The recharge voltage on this type of cell is lower than the other styles of lead acid battery. This is probably the most sensitive cell in terms of adverse reactions to over-voltage charging. Gel Batteries are best used in VERY DEEP cycle application and may last a bit longer in hot weather applications. If the incorrect battery charger is used on a gel cell battery, poor performance and premature failure is certain."
From Lifeline, this is a link to the most useful and accurate information about AGM batteries. I have now used this publication as a source since 2008 in my motor homes and has been recently updated in Feb of 2017. http://lifelinebatteries.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/6-0101-Rev-E-Lifeline-Technical-Manual.pdf
For those not willing to pay the hefty AGM prices at their battery store, Craigslist is an excellent source for batteries. This is how I found ours. Great deals come up if you check frequently. They also have 315 watt panels for $100 used. Here is an example of an ad in Sacramento's Craigslist for brand new Shuriken AGM batteries in various sizes: Shuriken Car Batterys - electronics - by owner - sale (https://sacramento.craigslist.org/ele/d/shuriken-car-batterys/6449324374.html)
Pierce
I see the full river 8d's are designed for 14.7 volts in both bulk and absorbtion modes. Most alternators would not be set or set able that high? Would seem to preclude the use of the current industry wide use of a combiner versus an isolator as most engine starting batteries other than full rivers maybe are not made for long input of that high of voltage?
The lifeline aircraft grade shows in their top use for planes. They max at room temps at 14.3 volts I see.
Our mk gels are max at 14.15 at room temps. That allows a combiner it seems as the red tops were made for cars with a normal 14.2 or so alternator output.
Interesting read on the lifeline tech stuff.
The FullRiver Batteries are designed to accept 14.7 volts but not to require it. Charge times increase at lower voltages. My 40si 240 amp Delco has a solid state digital voltage regulator that adjusts voltage output (even with the voltage loss in a diode based isolator) to reach the desired voltage at the sensed battery which is about 14 volts. The charger on the inverter or the solar charger or my secondary battery charger will put out about 14.7 volts or more for an appropriate time before backing down to a lower voltage.
https://www.wholesalesolar.com/cms/charging-instructions-1076628007.pdf
UPDATE: I have been watching those battery on Craigslist and made the seller a offer pending they pass a test. They passrd,with flying colors 100% charge and 100% life left in them.
And..... Are you ready.......
He took my $400.00 offer for Both!
Yep 2 Almost brand new 8D AGM batteries for 400 bucks!!
Are they truly agm's? never seen vents on one.
Those aren't vents - they are "regulating" valves. In normal operation they are closed.
Good buy on the batteries - they look exactly like the last O'Reilly AGM8D's that I bought (for $450 each). Photos of my batteries below:
You Go Stump.!!! ^.^d ^.^d
Neither have I but it does say AGM on both labels. Can't turn these on their sides though.
Lots of good battery/solar panels on Craigslist but you have to look everyday.
P
Yes, they are AGMs, they are made by East Penn, just a different brand of East Penn's like my agm Intimidator brand that I put in used a couple months ago. Mine were 4 1/2 years old, prev installed new 5-17-2013. On another post I said I'd admit and update the post when they failed. Mine most likely will not go below 20% discharge as I have 540 watt mppt solar with an excellent Morning Star MPPT controller, a Xantrex pure sine wave converter/inverter with adjustable charge rates, and I am used to watching the battery charge condition, and keeping as fully charged as possible.
When I installed the three 8ds I had to change the connectors as they had become enlarged over the years probably from wire brush cleanings as batteries were replaced over the years, they just would not snug up properly. I also installed, as seen in the picture below, a battery cutoff, for both ground connections for this battery system and another back at the engine battery. When away from the rv this guarantees no parasitic drain that could ruin these three agm 8ds.
Keep them charged properly, do not discharge below 40% and I'm confident you will get years of service, at least beyond your $$$ investment / per year / compared to installing new.
I can find no published specs for the Magna-Power batteries. Does that information exist?
Plus one on the disconnect, though I did it on the positive lead. Hard to believe from looking at Jacks picture of three 8D's installed in that compartment, but it is possible to get 4 of these in that space. I made a custom slide out for the top layer to allow for the switch and a bus bar set up. All 8 cables from the batteries are the same length at 32" long, and the leads to the inverter through the Magnum Mini-Pnel adds less than 4'. Both battery trays can fully extend without disconnection. That said, I don't casually extend the batteries like they were my sock drawer, as these 4-0 cables are pretty thick and heavy. Some care is required! Also, since the solar charge controller is tied in through the Magnum mini-panel, the solar disconnect must also be off to isolate the 12 volt coach house systems from power... and of course, the boost switch must be off as well as the inverter (when on shore or generator power). With so many possible sources for 12 volt power, I have to go through my mental check list before working on the 12v systems. Forgetting something can let the smoke out. :o
Don
The things on the top of the AGM batteries being discussed are
not vents. They are valves. They will not open or permit the emission of gas or electrolyte unless the battery is severely over-charged. VRLA AGM batteries can be mounted in any position.
See the discussion below for further clarification:
VRLA battery - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VRLA_battery)
Icing on the cake Stump, you forget to deduct the $35-40 core charge on these monsters. Stump for president!
Don - what and where did you get those HD cabinet slides?
Don's post is so accurate. The positive disconnect is the right way to go. My reason for the negative disconnect was it was easy to do, and fast, and with less chance of sparking (shorting) to positive. My solar disconnect is on the positive. I went for 10 years with only 2 8Ds and 150 watt solar on my Monaco rvs. Thus three 8D's, the larger 560 watt solar, is luxury for me. Four 8Ds is better and lets you have a shallower discharge compared to 3 or 2 given the same amp draw, thus longer battery life. Excellent choices Don, well thought out. The bars, the even length larger cables, all make for a terrific system. And yes, exercising the mind to know where and how the 12V and lethal 120V systems are at that moment is vital when working on your rv, nothing is so urgent that you do not have time to double check. I even find myself flipping breakers off when working on 120v even when I know the rv is unplugged.
I got the 500 LB full extension lock in/lock out 24" drawer slide on eBay.
500 LB Full Extension Lock In/Out Drawer Slide 3600 Series | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/500-LB-Full-Extension-Lock-In-Out-Drawer-Slide-3600-Series/391433348482?hash=item5b233ee582:m:mpUsAMyTyrdKOBj1PmWlrxg)
This link should be the ones I got a couple years ago. This is the same seller and the product looks the same. I really like that they lock in as well as out. It makes loading the batteries much easier...
Don
Because our batteries are "buried" between the frame rails, Foretravel used Gel batteries..We replaced with the same (Penn/Deka)
Don, you have a drawer just for socks🙀
...custom fabricated from mirror-polished stainless steel and aluminum, of course!
Don what length did you use?
We've got fresh 8Ds, looking over the connections , I was reminded of what Brett said the other day: "a few of us are getting a little too old to heft those batteries around."
You the man Stump ^.^d
Don wear socks? I thought they all wore sandals in California.
I used 24" which fit without a whole lot of extra room. Possibly 26" might be made to work, but you might have to shorten the release levers to close the compartment.
Don
Not yet, but when all the mods are done. 8)
Don
Thanks bought a set for future use. Four mk 8g8d's would give us 450 amp hours to 50% discharge.
Any further info on the actual setup details? Did I miss the post?
Looking at MOT's website I noticed a late model ih45 had six 8g8d's in it.
Bob, I assume your question is directed at me... if so, below is a link to the topic in which I posted the most detail on the four 8D battery upgrade on our U270 (which came with two 8D Gels). As think I mentioned in this topic, my original plan was to go to LiFePO4 (lithium based) but I felt the timing was premature. My bet is that these four 8D AGM's will last until a better option becomes more affordable... we will see.
Installing 4 batteries and a busbar setup in a 99' 36 foot U270 (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=26006.0)
Don
Thanks. You mention of the u320 hinges may require the measuring you mentioned
Bob, you may have already found these specs, I send this to you should you have any doubts about the batteries you just acquired. The Magna-Power batteries list the weight at 168lbs and the 20H rating at 245AH. This is the same as my "Intimidator" brand from East Penn/Deka, the same as the Deka specs show in the following pdf. From East Penn: https://www.solarelectricsupply.com/media/custom/upload/Deka-AGM.pdf and what I used to set up my charging specs: http://www.eastpenn-deka.com/assets/base/0139.pdf Since the specs are the same, the glossy flyers are the same, the cases are the same, I have to believe they are the same with different lables. Their facility here in the US, 4.2 million sq ft, and....top vender in the world in telecommunications battery market. Top 5 Vendors in the Global Battery Market in Telecommunications - Technavio... (https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20171110005359/en/Top-5-Vendors-Global-Battery-Market-Telecommunications)
A private, family-owned company operating the largest single-site, lead-acid battery
manufacturing facility in the world.
Berks a major player in worldwide battery production | Reading Eagle -... (http://www.readingeagle.com/business-weekly/article/berks-is-a-major-player-in-worldwide-battery-production#.WmeBkainGUk) East Penn Manufacturing – The world's largest single site, family-owned... (http://www.eastpennmanufacturing.com/)
East Penn Manufacturing is a private, family-owned lead-acid battery manufacturing facility. It is the largest single-site lead-acid battery manufacturing facility in the world. East Penn Manufacturing was established in 1946 and ran out of a one-room creamery in Bowers, PA.
Today the company employs over 8,000 people and is one of Greater Reading's leading employers. East Penn Manufacturing offers 450 product designs and has won multiple awards for manufacturing and environmental excellence. In 2014 East Penn Manufacturing was ranked as one of the Best Places to work in PA. The company also won the Governor's Award for Environmental Excellence.
The facilities at East Penn Manufacturing include:
Battery Facility
Wire & Cable Facility
Distribution Complex
Recycling
A unique feature to East Penn Manufacturing is the recycling facility. Each year an average of 17 million batteries are processed within the facilities and the company recycles virtually 100% of each spent battery.
Location: Deka Road, Lyon Station, PA 19536
I like Don's two level 4 8D battery arrangement. My 2001 has an inconvenient structural truss (part of the side structure for the slide) in the way for doing that. So in the floor space available where my batteries are now and in the vertical space available under the truss there is room in my coach for six Full River DC335-6 6 volt batteries on a single level (and a nice full extension rack). This leaves much more room for cables, bus bars, big fuse blocks, big switches, shunts and the rest of the stuff. I like the idea of a switch on both the Plus and Minus feeds.
These six batteries will provide 1005 amp hrs at a 20 hr discharge rate compared to the ~900 amp hrs available from the four 8Ds. The six Full River batteries weigh 103 lbs each or 618 lbs total. The four 8Ds are 167 lbs each or 668 lbs total. The six Full River batteries use a single rack which saves some weight as well and may actually use less cable (3 pairs of 6 volt batteries vs four 8Ds). This is another option outside the 8D box worth considering.
I am on year seven of my three Lifelines. They are showing their age. Maybe another year or so of effective life and then I will likely go with the DC335 solution. That may be the last battery change for me with this coach. If there is another I hope Lithium options will be better.
Roger
Magna Power may or may not be the exact same product as an intimidator. Probably is. Need to see a magnapower specific chart if available. Versus look at another models info. Thought it was unusual that no specs showed at all.
Can you get me a link to the Magna Power specs?