Hey friends, we just pulled into Lakeland FL and discovered this on the sidewall of our driver's side outside rear tire. I'd love any advice on where to get this looked at and if I should drive it to wherever to fix it or if that is not recommended.
The only fix for that is get a new tire and if your other tires are the same age replace them also.
Do you know of a good place around here to get that done? And is it drivable to get it to that place?
Trent you will let likely need new tiresj lots of commercial tire places in the Lakeland area just start calling.
Is the tire losing air? Is it at the proper inflation pressure? Fortunately, it is a rear tire. As this is your home and your family's well being is in jeopardy, replace it and all other tires that are either out of date/showing that level of deterioration. I would not continue driving until I had a tire shop located. Have the shop inspect all to make an informed decision. I'm certain there is a place in Lakeland that can help you out.
Bob
Are those three pictures all of the same tire, and what are the date codes on your tires Trent?
Consider a 295/75-22.5 in a Toyo, Bridgestone, Firestone, etc if you replace all six. Same diameter but slightly wider. Easier to find this size also. This is the size we have on our U300. A lot of other Foretravels also use this size.
I would not think twice about driving to a tire shop, especially since it's winter with cool temperatures. But it's not my decision.
Pierce
Ordered a set of toyo's. Ironman's came in(made by hercules/Cooper. Had them put on @ $1491.50 incl tax. Don't go very far so maybe they will last? They used to be made in Findley, OH. but now Taiwan...
Jim
Okay...we are going to take it to a shop here in Lakeland and get them to inspect all of the tires. Our Michelins in the front (XZA3) are 5 years old and look okay, but we will definitely get them inspected, but I think we will need to replace all four back tires, which are all Continental. They don't even have a DOT code on them so I have no idea how old they are. I thought JOR had said they had all been replaced not too long before we bought the coach a couple of years ago, but I could be remembering incorrectly.
My question to you guys now is should I get the exact same tires that we have on the front of the coach or could I do with less expensive Michelins on the back. FMCA sent me a whole list of Michelin tires in our size that are part of their discount program and the ones we have on front are one of the more pricey ones. We want good tires, but we don't want to put unnecessarily high-priced tires if there is a difference between what is needed on the back versus the front. We have never replaced our tires so we don't know what's typical, I guess.
Thank you all for all your help!
Is there a benefit to the slightly wider tire? Sorry...we know nothing about tires...lol.
Can't find any DOT code, which makes us wonder how old these tires really are. Only info I can find online is that older (pre-2000's) tires didn't have a DOT code. But that doesn't make sense as far as what we thought we had back there. We were under the impression that they were fairly young tires. Either way, they don't look good, so we don't have high hopes that they will pass an inspection at the tire shop and we expect to be replacing all four back tires.
The date code is only on one side of the tire. Yours might be on the inside.
Ah....that could be the case...Then there's probably no way to know until they take the tire off then?
Looking around at cars today, you can see they have a lot more tread width on the ground compared to even 20 years ago. The more rubber on the ground, the better the vehicle corners and stops. The diameter difference is only one revolution per mile so essentially, no difference. The width is only about 3/4" wider so not much difference either.
The 295/75s are very common and can be quickly located if a road gator strikes.
The front tires are the most important. Sure, if a rear blew out, it could cause some body damage but it's buddy is next to it. In the front, a blowout may be much more serious. It's usually the place to put new tires if just two are replaced.
Bridgestone has an excellent tire carcass longevity reputation but may cost a bit more. Toyo tires are excellent as others have posted but read all posts for comments as I don't think there are any really bad tires on the market.
Probably all position tires are the best choice. Traction tires are not necessary and usually have a noise penalty.
Crawl under the coach and read the date code. It will be somewhere on every tire.
Pierce
I would imagine JOR had the coach weighed on all fours at one time, but checking paperwork would be suggested, and probably re-weigh given all the toys you must carry to support your team.
Be aware that FMCA has a fleet discount program with Continental as well as Michelin. I would check/price both.
And, just looking at the tire in the picture, it is OLD. And irrespective of age, you don't want to risk your family's life on it/them.
If the other tires look similar as far as the small cracks (not just the big crack in pic #1), don't bother getting them inspected, just replace them.
The size that Pierce mentioned is more common and gives you more choices.
There is no reason to match the front and rear tires other than if you have OCD issues.
Good Luck
I am curious about the date codes because I have Continentals that are now about two years old and I'm hoping that I can get 12 - 15 years out of them. LOL
I think Uniroyals are made by Michelin and a lot less money. Rudy was the first to mention them IIRC.
Like a race car with different springs, the amount of air each set of bags has will cause a different weight at other wheel positions. The ride height adjustment at each corner position on our coaches will cause this difference. As an example, changing the tire clearance to the top of the wheel well on the driver's rear will change the weight at other positions. When weighing each corner, the sway bar (if you have one) should be disconnected.
Pierce
Minor correction on air bags/ride height valves.
There are only THREE ride height valves on these coaches-- two on the rear (one for each side) and ONE in front. So, check rear ride height first, then set fronts so they "average" correct ride height.
And, absolutely, out of adjust WILL transfer weight.
I stand corrected. Quite correct Brett!
P
Not thinking about height valves, I was thinking about weighing the coach to set pressures of new tires, especially if the tread width and type are changed. Is this not a good reason to weigh all around?
Mike,
BOTH issues are important.
Ride height, particularly on an air suspension coach are much more likely to get out of adjustment (ride height valve control rod bent, etc) than your torsilastic suspension. On the torsilastic, check every year or so, or when you add your rock collection to the coach.
And, yes, individual wheel position weight is important. The ride height issue is that when out of adjustment, it can shift a LOT of weight form side to side/corner to corner. Consider how many of your really strong friends it would take to raise the right rear corner of your coach even 1"! Probably cost more than a case of beer just for labor.
Probe that sidewall split. If you can feel the belt(it will feel rough), don't drive the coach. Have a mobile service change the one tire before you move the coach to have the rest replaced. If you haven't been looking at the inside of all tires, do so. You'll find the DOT codes, plus maybe more splits. I once found a 4" split on the inside of an outside dual. That's why I do my own chassis lubes. It forces me to crawl under the coach every six months. I carry a flashlight and check every tire on the backside.
Tim,
The ride height is NOT an issue with the taller tire. Ride height is maintained between the chassis rail (below) and the coach rail (above), Tire height has zero affect on this and does not change the drive line angles.
And, there really is NOT much difference between a 275/80 and a 295/75. Are yours 297/75 or 295/80???
Have run 295 on all my coaches, [275 oem] with no problems. Earlier coaches had the ability to dump the bags so low that tire touched body. If you forgot and moved coach before bags could inflate and raise coach, it would rub the fiberglass. Newer coaches will not drop so far. .3 inches difference in size between the two tires.
As a point of reference, I just bought six 285 75R 22.5 Toyo 137 tires here in Quartzsite for $526 per tire including balance beads, stems, installation and tax. I chose the 137's for their lower tread depth which should reduce squirm and improve tracking and cornering. I don't drive enough miles to wear out the tread over the service life of the tires.
Hope this helps.
I would absolutely consider the FMCA program however there are many other excellent tire brands available for less money without the FMCA discount on the "premium" priced tires, when I checked last.
I would look into Toyo and Uniroyal. Both are excellent tires used by truckers and RVers that cost a lot less than Michelin or Continental. I currently have old Bridgestone tires and plan on replacing them with Toyo M154 soon. My Bridgestones are old but in good enough shape to sell to a local dump truck owner/operator who will wear them out in under a year. You may find that to be the case with your remaining non damaged rear Continentals. Your five year old steers probably do not require replacement but an expert inspection will be able to tell you more accurately. I would not hesitate to drive it a short distance to a tire shop, but I would avoid any high speeds.
The exact number for a comparison is 0.1" inches (less than 1/8") taller for the 295/75 and it will rotate 505 times per mile vs 507 for the 275. Check the page below.
Tire Size Comparison (https://tiresize.com/comparison/)
Pierce
It is paramount that, as the driver and person responsible for the coach's mechanical condition (tire condition also) we are also the person that is charged with doing everything necessary to protect the lives and health of the people riding with us. We hold their safety in our hands.
KEEP THEM SAFE ALWAYS!
I agree with Brett, Jim, and Pierce, as to no problem with this size, ride height, etc., I've just finished a 2500 mile trip with the Toyo 154, H rated, tires I put on in May 2016, and I could not be more pleased. Minimal difference in circumference, my odometer is accurate as checked with GPS mph and road signs.
Again, big difference between 295/75R22.5 and 295/80R22.5.
PLEASE be specific when you say the 295 is a problem/not a problem!
Wow...a lot of information here. I didn't even think past getting the tires changed. So I'm going to have to get it weighed and have stuff recalibrated or something after changing the tires? Brett, we did check in with FMCA on the tire discount and we will probably go with Michelin tires because they are what we have and we do a LOT of traveling and tires is not something we want to skimp on. Just seems safer to go with something that we are familiar with. I'd love some more advice on all of the weight and ride height stuff if someone wants to give us a crash course in what all that means.
Be sure to VERIFY that the new tires are not more than 3 months old if at all possible.
Last 4 digits of the full DOT code molded into one side wall indicate the WEEK and YEAR of production. No point in paying retail for tires that are already partly "aged out".
And, the OE Michelin size is 275/80R22.5. Others will chime in on which is the best series to get. Basically you want one with LESS deep tread (less squirm) and you will never wear out the tread-- tread good for more than 100,000 miles but, tires will again age out before the tread wears out.
Something to check with Michelin about: A "all purpose" tire. I know you guys drive up in snow and ice country, let them know.
LOL...we don't intentionally drive in snow and ice country. We have found ourselves in that place before and don't intend to repeat it if at all possible. Campground full of ice with really tight lanes....Big Foretravel:1 vs. Little Bush:0...I'm just thankful for the trucker that was living there and helped us maneuver out of there without sliding into another rig or car. I don't think there is any tire that will stop 30,000 lbs. on ice. We are not about to become ice road RVers...hahaha!
I know the tires on our coach also had tires installed with date codes inside. ASK that new tires be mounted so the codes are easily visible...outside of rim on outside tire and inner side of inside tire (closed to center of coach). Frustrates me every time I have to check.
We run the 295/75's on ours (H rated) and like the "extra meat" on the pavement.
Since tires are big expense consider setting up a sinking fund for replacement so the "hit" isn't so big. This can be actual dollars set aside each year in a separate account or simply a calendar reminder each year of how many years are left so you're ready when they need to be replaced. As I've heard said many times here tires run out of time long before they run out of rubber. If it were me I'd start looking at them extra hard when they get to 5-7 years.
Good tips! I definitely will get them to mount them with the DOT out because I am not about to let them put old tires on and assume they're new. A sinking fund is also a wise idea. We are prepared to take the hit this time, but it would feel like so much less of a hit if it were coming out of a separate account that was intended for tire replacement and not our main account. Nothing like seeing 2 Gs dropping out of your bank account at once :(((
What exactly does the H rating mean? I am assuming that is what I am seeing listed as "load range" which lists H or G? The only Michelins I can see on their "tire selector" that are H are their new steer tire (which is unnecessary for rear tires, yes?) and one with extra deep tread, which Brett said NOT to go for...lol. How can tires be this confusing?
The rotation required on the tire (most tires have a directional arrow) will determine whether the date code is inside or outside. If they are all installed at the same time with similar date codes, some tires will have date code outside, and some inside.
decent primer attached.
G rated and H rated. Design differences, H can carry more load in the same size tire.
https://az184419.vo.msecnd.net/schneider-trucks/PDF/maintenance/TireLoadRangeGvsH.pdf
And allow around ten psi tire pressure to carry the same load. Better ride
Yes, I would drive it, keep speed down, but it will likely not be an issue Call Les Schwab if they have an outlet. Also ask truck dealers and RV dealers for recommendations FMCA has national account pricing on Michelin's and maybe one other brand Watch the big air wrench's they use. Often over torque and stri
also price too, hankook and yokohama - all good tires and you will never wear out any of them
Tim Fiedler
Sure Start Soft Start (http://www.gen-pro.biz)
TCER Direct (http://www.tcerdirect.com) generator-gas-prod (http://www.generatorgasproducts.com) 630 240-9139
Gen-Pro
Yokohama has a brand new $300m truck tire plant in the USA, and I see a lot of them on OTR trucks. About $400 each mounted.
This is what the guy was telling us at the tire shop. Unfortunately, they are so in demand that they have been backordered. He was supposed to get an order of them today, but he didn't. I think we are going to go with Continental again. I hate to admit it, but we discovered after the tire guy got underneath the RV that the Conti's that we had on the back were '08 and '09 DOTs. If I had known they were that old we never would have driven on them at all, much less went two years on them. Thankfully he did not notice any other serious cracks on the other tires. I'm very grateful we have not had any accidents. But...if they lasted that long, then Continental deserves my business again. :) The guy said our Michelins on the front, even though they are five years old actually look great because we actually travel a lot and they don't sit much at all. He said we don't need to replace those yet. We will keep a careful eye on them each time we check the tire pressures before driving, as usual.
I remember Goodyear Blue Streaks then Firestone Indy and finally Yokohama 007s or something like that. They were super sticky for autocross, etc. Good tire manufacturer.
One thing worth mentioning about tires that wear for a long time - there is a reason for that. There is generally a trade-off between longevity and grip, because longevity is usually achieved by making the rubber harder. Harder rubber is less "grippy". I learned this in a big way when I replaced the long-wearing tires that came on my (used) 2-seater with tires from Michelin that came with a shorter projected tread life. What a difference - on corners, in the rain - it was like driving a different car. Now I'm thinking the previous owner may have put the harder rubber on deliberately - for "drifting". Anyhow, since none of us will ever wear out the tread on our tires before they become just too oxidized and damaged to keep, I would recommend getting something with softer rubber - i.e., nothing with tread life as its selling point. Just my opinion. Your mileage may vary!
One other thing worth mentioning - inflation pressure. The first several times I drove my coach it was so squirmy it reminded me of driving a VW bus 40 years ago - not a pleasant sensation when you're driving a 17-ton vehicle! When I finally got around to addressing tire inflation I learned that they were under-inflated, especially the steer tires. What a difference correct tire pressures made!
In case you don't already, I would recommend that you keep the inflation tables for your specific tires handy and use them. Until and unless you have accurate axle weights (ideally, corner weights), at least run your tires at the max pressures on the plate by the driver's seat. Even if they're inflated higher than they need to be, as long as they're under the manufacturer's max, it's ok. Over-inflation will give you a harder ride, but as long as the inflation doesn't exceed the max rating on the sidewalls, you're better off guessing a little high than having the tires under-inflated - because under-inflation will heat up your tires excessively and wear them out prematurely, and in the extreme it will cause serious damage and potentially an accident. (And it can make the handling squirmy. :o ) Keep in mind that whenever pressures are given they refer to "cold" tires - at ambient temperature, prior to heating up on the road. Lately due to the whipsaw temperatures here in Texas, I have had to adjust my tire pressures the last few times I have driven, as "cold" has ranged from downright warm to just below freezing. I have a 12 Volt high pressure pump as well as a high pressure CO2 tank for adjusting the pressures.
No "air" in tires that is not dry air.
In our case using the "g" rating tire pressure that the coach came with would be 3 pounds too high on the front and 13 on the rear.
With the "h" rated current tires we would be 23 too high on the fronts and 33 high on the rear.
My tire pressure/temp sending units on our car show a 10% rise in temps warm versus cold.
On a smooth road the ride differences may not be as noticeable but on our so cal freeways the ride would be jarring IMO
We are installing Uniroyal RS20's on Tuesday $2500 all 6. Balanced,stems,labor....
FMCA has some great Continental pricing. Continental Tire Program (https://www.fmca.com/benefits/continental-tire-program.html)
Michelin FMCA pricing: Michelin Advantage (https://www.fmca.com/benefits/michelin-advantage.html)
Comparison chart: https://blobs.continental-tires.com/www8/servlet/blob/571048/a560a1d78f9d95c59bad6bb8df51c3ec/comparison-chart-data.pdf
The Conti HSR2 Eco Plus and the Michelin X Multi Energy Z are the ones I am keeping in mind for next tire purchase.
Edit: to add the Uniroyal thread recent discussion: Uniroyal Tires (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=33215.0)
And Uniroyal RS20 page: Uniroyal Truck Tire Selector | Uniroyal Truck Tires (https://www.uniroyaltrucktires.com/tires/selector/#!/info/rs20)
I think you're doing yourself a huge disservice considering only Michelin or Continental. Any brand will work great. This is a massive RV, not a sports car. I keep my tires inflated near the max sidewall psi, I dont care what my weight is, it rides fine and the extra peace of mind knowing it has plenty of pressure is worth it. Problems come from under inflation, not over inflation.
Consider Uniroyals, or Toyo or any other brand (besides chinapops). Visit your tire shop and ask for the four freshest tires in your size that they have on the shelf! You cannot go wrong. No 22.5" tire with a reputable name on the side will give you trouble. Truckers would crucify the company and they would be out of business quickly if they didnt produce a good, reliable product.
I am strickly a data guy. I looked hard to find any Chinapops. Maybe you have more data points then i do. I could not find anyone who had a Chinese tire come apart . I took Really nice Samsons off, and put new Samsons on. Ride well and round. No issues for 2K so far.
No so with the over priced Michelin. Granted more tires on the road in the USA.
Please post any negative real data findings. Not just "they must be crap cuz they're from China."
I want to stay with 275/80/22.5 H rated (not change to 295/75/22.5). That imposes 'some' limits on brands. My existing Michelin date codes are May 2012. (6 years in May). No sidewall cracks, no abnormal wear, never run under inflated nor overinflated.
However, even though these tires look great at near 6 years, I am considering replacing the tires in the next few months so I can avoid sales tax (we are in Oregon right now). We will likely be heading south bound in a few months, and not be back in the PNW for a year to three years. We will likely be doing NV, AZ, TX, FL to NAS Key West (and states in between) over the next year.
I sent out inquiries to a two commercial tire shops in Roseburg OR and Eugene OR for Uniroyal RS20, Conti HSR2 Eco Plus and the Michelin X Multi Energy Z. I also asked about take off value (if any). In Sept 2016 on our previous coach, Superior tire in Eugene would not offer any take off value on 7 year old Michelin XZE 275/80/22.5 with no sidewall cracks. I'm currently leaning towards the Contis - good pricing with FMCA discount.
We are currently doing the off seasons for our travels, for medical/dental now in OR, and far less crowded campgrounds as well during the off seasons
Note: Four states with no sales tax: Delaware, Montana, Oregon, and New Hampshire. A fifth, Alaska, has no state-level sales tax but allows municipalities to impose the retail-level tax.
Just curious, why not the 295's?
Want to avoid the slim chance of any extra width issues. For example, maximum steer tire wheel cuts when backing into/pulling out of tight campgrounds, tire kiss on rear duals, tag lift clearance, etc. Previous owner on my previous coach (Bluebird) went from 275/80 to 295/75 before I bought it. I went back to OEM size at the next tire change.
I have read a "few" issues over the years with extra width.
OEM size carries the loads I need with no issues. Other peoples opinions will vary of course.
They also cost a little bit of MPG and speed.
295/75r/22.5 39.9 inches diameter 505 revolutions per mile
275/80r/22.5 39.8 inches diameter 507 revolutions per mile
Don't think most people could tell the difference. Have used the 295's on all my coaches with no adverse effects. Do like the little extra load carrying capacity, so I run a little lower pressure for a better ride.
Think it would be very hard to measure any MPG difference between the sizes. We have over 40,000 on 295/75s and other than a occasional slight "polishing" of one of the airbag plates when the coach is leaned way over, there is no problem. We take the coach over a lot of gravel/dirt roads in the back country and down river washes in Baja to the beach so if there was going to be a clearance problem, we would see it. Hey, 1/8" in diameter means the tire would be 1/16" closer to the air bag plate. A worn tire vs a new one is a lot more than that.
Pierce
How about the width difference 275/80 to 295/75? Tire Size Comparison (https://tiresize.com/comparison/)
On another note, something strange about the OEM size in Uniroyal RS 20 is the size difference and revolution (RPM) difference. Also lower load rating (all in OEM size comparing Michelin/Conti/Uniroyal)
Uniroyal RS20 275/80r/22.5
Load Range H
Catalog Number
42794
Loaded Radius
18.3 in
Overall Diameter
39.4 in
Overall Width
10.8 in
Approved Rims
8.25, 7.50
Min. Dual Spacing
12.2 in
RPM
551
Tread Depth
18/32
Max Speed
75 mph
Max Load Per Tire Single
6610/120 lbs/psi
Max Load Per Tire Dual
6005/120 lbs/psi
Conti 275/80r/22.5 :
Load Range
H
Article Number
5120850000
Tread Depth
23
Max Speed
75
Static Loaded Radius (IN)
18,7
Overall Inflated Diameter (IN)
40
Overall Inflated Width (IN)
11,1
Loaded Section Width (IN)
12,6
Approved Rims
8.25,7.50
Minimum Dual Spacing (IN)
12,5
Revs Per Mile (IN)
518
Tire Weight (LB)
117
Max Loaded Inflation-Single (LB)
7160/120
Max Loaded Inflation-Dual (LB)
6610/120
Michelin similar to Conti. Uniroyal seems to be quite different.
Hans & Marjet,
We bought our Uniroyal RS20's last February, out the door for $2,200 @ Visalia Tire & Wheel. The price was much better than was quoted in Texas. Suprised the hell out of me. :o
Bob
I use the 295 also.
But the lighter/ smaller/narrow tire at higher pressure will roll a lot easier. The tires have a drag /rolling resistance value measured at various operating pressures.
My guess is maybe .2-.4 MPG @ 11MPG. Of the 275 G tires at 110psi vs the 295H tires @ 95psi.
Edit. He did this for Cooper, now he does hub/ bearing/tire for Nissan.
Dan, This is a pic of my coach with a 295. The extra 3/4 inch width does not seem to make any difference in clearances in wheel well when I turn lock to lock. I think increased diameter could be a problem though.
Thx Bob...are you satisfied with the performance of the RS20's.....How much in TX ??
Hans
Again we are back to WHICH 295 is OK and which interferes?
295/75R22.5 IS, repeat IS "smaller/less diameter" than a 295/80R22.5!
Would like to hear from anyone with a 295/75 who has interference issues.
Good catch on the load/inflation difference! Uniroyal 275/80R22.5 seems to be halfway between LR G and LR H of a Michelin in terms of load/inflation. So not all manufacturers of the same size/load range tire have the same tables and it's important to look up what applies to the specific mfr/model/LR/size and not go by the wall plate or owner's manual of a coach (since that would only apply to the original tires).
Brett, I was talking about the 295/75r/22.5. which I have not had interference issues with. Not sure, but it appears that there is far more choices for the 75r tire than the 80r tire, and prices appear lower also.
Hans,
There was a significant difference in the ride quality and noise compared to the Goodyear 670RV tires that were removed. We did add Centramatics and so far we are pleased with the results. I think the same tires in Texas were $2600 out the door.
Bob
Thanks, Jim.
Kind of difficult to tell which size 295 tires (80 or 75 series) are exhibiting interference issues from this thread. Just want the "bottom line" of this thread to reflect reality.
Much Better!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!