Foretravel Owners' Forum

Foretravel Motorhome Forums => Foretravel Tech Talk => Topic started by: jor on February 12, 2018, 06:16:36 pm

Title: Coach Batteries
Post by: jor on February 12, 2018, 06:16:36 pm
I'm going to replace my two coach batteries. In the past I have bought Lifelines but I'm not going to spend that kind of money on these. I'm going to go with either O'Reilly's Dekas or the Chinese Apex batts. Turns out that the final price is almost the same. Now my question. My Lifelines had a flat top as do the Apexes but the O'Reilly's have the six caps on top. They are both AGM batteries so why the caps on the O'Reilly's? Thanks.
jor
Title: Re: Coach Batteries
Post by: craneman on February 12, 2018, 06:54:42 pm
This came up in a previous thread and the caps were called gas relief valves or something like that.
Title: Re: Coach Batteries
Post by: jcus on February 12, 2018, 07:10:58 pm
Would go with the O'reillys. Deka is owned by East Penn, which has a pretty good reputation.
Title: Re: Coach Batteries
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on February 12, 2018, 07:35:15 pm
The "caps" on the O'reilly AGMs are "pressure regulated vents".  They are not removable.  They will only open to vent excess internal pressure in the event of a severe over-charge condition.

At least that's the way I understand it...
Title: Re: Coach Batteries
Post by: Dave Larsen on February 12, 2018, 08:15:54 pm
We have the O'reilly's Deka AGM's.  No problems but less than 3 1/2 years old.  I especially like the nationwide store aspect in case there is a problem.
Title: Re: Coach Batteries
Post by: AC7880 on February 12, 2018, 08:27:19 pm
I had great results from Deka AGMs in my previous coach.  11 years before a couple started failing with over heating and venting from the caps mentioned in first  post above.  (most likely dead shorts due to material build up between plates).
Title: Re: Coach Batteries
Post by: jor on February 12, 2018, 10:56:04 pm
Goin' with the O'Reilly's. Thanks.
jor
Title: Re: Coach Batteries
Post by: jor on February 14, 2018, 04:16:16 pm
Quote
pressure regulated vents

Still wonder why they have these vents when other AGMs do not. Just curious.
jor
Title: Re: Coach Batteries
Post by: jcus on February 14, 2018, 04:19:48 pm
Still wonder why they have these vents when other AGMs do not. Just curious.
jor
Lifeline's have them also, but are built into the top of the battery itself.
Title: Re: Coach Batteries
Post by: jor on February 14, 2018, 05:03:25 pm
Quote
but are built into the top of the battery itself.

Got it. Just took a look at a photo of the ones we got for our 95 and there they are! Thanks.
jor
Title: Re: Coach Batteries
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on February 14, 2018, 05:07:18 pm
Still wonder why they have these vents when other AGMs do not.
Here's some poop (Oops - I mean technical jargon) from East Penn.  As I understand it, a VRLA battery can be a AGM battery, but not all AGM batteries are VRLA batteries.  So perhaps not all AGM batteries have pressure regulated vents?

http://www.eastpennmanufacturing.com/wp-content/uploads/Guide-to-VRLA-Batteries-1927.pdf
Title: Re: Coach Batteries
Post by: John44 on February 14, 2018, 05:21:01 pm
We got Trojen AGM's from Continental battery,a little better specs then O'reily.
Title: Re: Coach Batteries
Post by: jor on February 14, 2018, 05:28:00 pm
Quote
We got Trojen AGM's

Those are great batteries but pricey. I put four of the 6 volt Trojans in the 225. Probably still going strong!
jor
Title: Re: Coach Batteries
Post by: AC7880 on February 14, 2018, 05:38:38 pm
Still wonder why they have these vents when other AGMs do not. Just curious.
jor

When my 11 year old DEKA AGMs failed and overheated/outgassed I was glad those vents let the pressure out - instead of exploding the battery case.
Title: Re: Coach Batteries
Post by: Caflashbob on February 14, 2018, 07:36:04 pm
Food for thought.

Foretravel built a correctly matched system to ensure a long reliable life.

Gels can only be charged at 1/5th C.  20% percent of the battery bank amp hours.

125 amps from the charger.  160 from the alternator which went through the isolator and then charged both banks plus its internal losses which required cooling fins to vent the heat from the unit.

No equalization was needed for the gels and no equalization mode was in the oem inverter/chargers as it was not available or needed.

Adding AGM batteries requires perfect charging habits so you do not lose capacity from long term not reaching the full SOC.

if I were to change my gels to AGM's for the additional 38 amp,hours then available I personally would use the lifelines for their sole ability to be equalized and have the sw 2812 set to the correct lower charging voltage they require.

Plus they take a charge 20% faster because of their better internal construction.

So instead of a 160 amp alternator and our combiner I could change it to a 20% higher amp unit and use the lifeline benefits better.

This of course needs long term testing to see if a non lifeline AGM loses much capacity in actual normal rv use.

The difference in price and the extra capacity may or may not turn out to be as material in use if the batteries at five years are now less capacity than similar gels meaning your gen run time if not on a power pedestal goes up.

There was a reason it seems that Foretravel equipped every uni whatever exactly why they did.

Separately I receiving my ME-ARC50 today.  I actually do not need it currently but if I store the coach indoors in the future the solar system can no longer keep up the batteries.

If the coach then is plugged in an the charger turned on both the ME-RC50 and the arc unit run the battery banks down 20% prior to reinitializing the charging regime.

The RC is not adjustable.  The ARC can be programmed up to 99% SOC to turn on the charger side.

Prevents needlessly cycling the batteries from 100% to 80% then back to 100%.

My guru buddy has large buses with 6-8 gels in the system and if you happen to be at the 80% part of the charging cycle when you start using the coach the  the loss of that many amp hours is noticeable.

Especially in float mode and the last 15% recharge of capacity takes much longer than bulk charge from 60% to 75%

If on travels from pedestal to pedestal or runs the gen always when using the coach these differences may not apply or be noticed.

We are dry campers a lot and long term owner type people so a decrease of battery capacity at some future time would have me equalize my system if possible or replace the batteries earlier than may otherwise have been needed.

Takes 15-20 cycles on a battery to get full capacity. 

I would measure their capacity at that point and maybe annually there after just to get a baseline and see how my charging setup is doing.

I know.  A lot of work.  Too many old days in flooded cell battery coaches with single stage battery boiler chargers to not try to eliminate any issues.

The technology exists now where before it did not.  Plus the knowledge.

Last step for me is a temp controlled alternator to not overcharge both banks at 13.5 volts in hot weather.

Magnum noticeably adjusts its voltage depending on the temp.  Alternator does not.

I have seen perfectly charged and not overly discharged batteries last 15 years or more.

Plus in between the capacity was higher for use

Title: Re: Coach Batteries
Post by: bill & jan velting on February 16, 2018, 11:36:37 am
Tenn RV replaced our original coach batteries with Lifetime AGMs
Title: Re: Coach Batteries
Post by: jor on February 19, 2018, 04:58:09 pm
Installed the two nice new shiny O'Reilly AGMs. I paid $400 each. Core was $22 each. I removed the rack and painted it. It's a slide out rack although it really isn't much use if you are not running wet cells. Anyhow, with these new batteries I expect the mileage to jump to 10 mpg and horsepower to increase by at least 10 percent.
jor

Title: Re: Coach Batteries
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on February 19, 2018, 05:04:46 pm
Nice clean installation with cables labeled. Looks like you took a DA to the fuel tank. With those batteries, you might start making fuel.

P
Title: Re: Coach Batteries
Post by: Caflashbob on February 19, 2018, 05:25:39 pm
A 295/ 320 upper rack is a bolt in and hold a third 8D
Title: Re: Coach Batteries
Post by: jor on February 19, 2018, 09:57:56 pm
Quote
Looks like you took a DA to the fuel tank.

Good eye, Pierce. That's exactly what it is. I like to have the fuel tank, water tank and wet bay area exposed. The fuel tank was covered with caulk. The only way I could get it off was with a DA. One of these days I'll continue with finer grit and get it looking good like the other side.

Bob, that's a good idea on the third battery. I might just do that.

One thing I forgot to mention in my last post: the O'Reilly guys brought my new batteries to the storage facility, hefted them into the rig and carried off the cores. Good service!
jor
Title: Re: Coach Batteries
Post by: Caflashbob on February 19, 2018, 11:30:21 pm
Jor I would move quick on the 3rd to have similar life's myself
Title: Re: Coach Batteries
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on February 20, 2018, 10:25:25 am
Good eye, Pierce. That's exactly what it is. I like to have the fuel tank, water tank and wet bay area exposed. The fuel tank was covered with caulk. The only way I could get it off was with a DA. One of these days I'll continue with finer grit and get it looking good like the other side.
jor
Jor,
If you have a compressor, you might consider a HF jitterbug. At $27.99, they are reliable and do a great job of restoring faded gelcoats as well as polishing aluminum. You just purchase a pack of 2500 or 3000 wet or dry, cut the paper to fit and then use a tiny spray of water about every 30 seconds to keep the surface wet. The JB can make jelcoat look like a mirror. Lots of work but ours finish was tired. For aluminum, once polished with the JB, you could use a buffer with a finishing compound on it or Mother's aluminum paste. The JB does not use too much air so a medium compressor should do the trick.
Search results for: 'jitterbug' (https://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result/index/?dir=asc&order=EAScore%2Cf%2CEAFeatured+Weight%2Cf%2CSale+Rank%2Cf&q=jitterbug)

Pierce