I am going to pull my steering gear box and send it to Read Head for a blueprint rebuild. At least that is the plan. But a time crunch might get in the way. It is not noticably loose as far as I can tell, the seals are leaking very slowly and have been for 7 years.
Does anyone have a blueprinted gear box ready to go? Looking for a swap? We are in Livingston, TX now.
Is the blueprint rebuild worth the 8 days of shipping compared to taking it to a local rebuilder?
Roger and Susan
I had mine rebuilt in Houston, Good as new. 2 years and going strong. If you have any questions, PM me.
John
If I had to do mine I would bite the bullet and go with Redhead,thought they came out better then new.
there was a spare steering box in circulation - not sure who is in possession or it is still "spare"
Dave Her may know with a PM
Tim Fiedler
Sure Start Soft Start (http://www.gen-pro.biz)
TCER Direct (http://www.tcerdirect.com) generator-gas-prod (http://www.generatorgasproducts.com) 630 240-9139
Gen-Pro
Where you staying in Livingston Roger? Wish I had time to make the 1.5 hr ride to stop by and say hi...
Northshore RV park in Onalaska. We will be here for a couple more weeks.
Traveling Man had it and shipped to one of the Forum members as of a couple months ago(if I remember correctly). Sure he will Chime in
Last I heard, RedHead had a overnight turn around. If you contact them they will send you a reduced price shipping label both ways.
I seem to recall a couple days both ways shipping.
If you need the R&R tools I have them for you to borrow.
I have the one from travelnman and have not had a chance to put it in yet.
Thanks for the info.
Readhead blueprint rebuild is $495 plus shipping, about $150 depending on where you are. The said to figure 8 business days for shipping and 2 business days to rebuild. Essentially two weeks.
We are squeezed for time. So we are going to get it done in Houston at Chalk Truck Parts. A day or so turnaround and a day each way for transit. We could be back in the pink by end of the week. A long time slow leak is the main complaint. This should fix it.
Roger,
I sent mine to Redhead and it was less than a week and it was back in. But, I had no leaks but didn't like the wandering which was fixed with rebuild and a re-alignment. Also I was not far from Washington state for the shipping.
If just seals I would not see any reason why a truck shop could not do it easily??
Speedbird 1.
Check and see if Red Head has a core, or one already rebuilt.
I did, they don't. FTs have a bit of an odd duck in this world. 8 business days minimum shipping from TX. It weighs well over 100 lbs.
Time is the issue here for us. I was hoping to get it out last Wednesday but it didn't happen until Monday. Shipping it last Wednesday would have worked, yesterday not so well.
Box will be back tomorrow and back in place by Friday, I hope.
Roger
Rats! If I had known that you could have sent me the completed on and I would have had RedHead send you mine when it was done.
Roger
My understanding is the straight line steering in San Jose furnishes Red head their parts and can be the actual people under subcontract who rebuild the boxes.
Sub office in riverside, ca.
Straight Line Steering Home (http://www.straightlinesteering.com/)
At least that's what was posted if memory serves me.
Sorry Roger, if I had known sooner I would have done that.
I have been looking for a write up on how to remove the steering box.
Does anyone remember any threads about it?
thanks
Mine is going back in tomorrow, I will take some pictures. You need to pull out the generator, remove the blower and radiator for the generator, remove a side panel from the generator box or cut a big hole, get a big pitman arm puller and then hold the box up with a jack to disconnect the steering wheel shaft and the remaining bolts. And then deal with more than 100 lbs of a dirty, likely oily hard to manage steering gear.
I was wiped out from watching Beau Reece do it 1/4 the time it would have taken me, not including an ER visit afer it fell and landed on an important part of me.
Better Beau than me.
Thanks Roger, the pics would be a big help, I wish I could keep it at the house but it wont fit in my steep drive.
I do have a motorcycle jack that I can bolt some 2x6's and lay down a sheet of plywood for it to roll on (it is setting on gravel)
Foretravel has a special pitman arm removal tool that makes the job much simpler. If you call or go by there I believe you can take a look at it and could fabricate or have one fabricated to do the job without removing the side wall or cutting large holes. Other steering box numbers will fit the Foretravel and are less expensive and readily available--- it's what I did. I furnished the box and had it replaced by MOT.
There is a thread out there from last year where I listed the steering box number I used. I bought the box in Houston.
The part number I used on my 1996 U320 was M100PGW1. About half the price of the PDP1 and essentially the same box. Physically identical, with slightly enhanced features.
On the 270's with the different gen if you pull the radiator the whole arm is right there.
Thanks Kemahjohn, I will check it out
Thanks John I am going to try and make it out to the coach tomorrow and get some pictures so I know what all I am dealing with.
Here's a couple of photos of what John is referring to. This is from my 97 270 with the radiator removed.
jor
Anyone have a pic of the tool needed? I know there are different types
Here is one I found that should work I guess but there may be other styles
M100 Pitman Arm Puller (https://www.tigertool.com/product/pitman-arm-puller-sheppard-m100-style/)
I have the puller and the socket to remove the nut.
I lend it to any forum member.
If you want to borrow it send me a email, I will mail it to you, send it back when your done.
On the 96' U320 the radiator is remote mounted on the outboard of the steering box. It's a tight squeeze between the Pittman arm and the generator side wall---- that's why I let MOT do the swap out.
My steering box is back in. After watching this process I am glad I didn't try this myself. There are really a lot more steps than you might think and most of them are in places I would rather not go.
You need to pull out the generator, remove the blower and radiator for the generator from the front driver's side bay. Our radiator was on the back wall with the blower next to it. Other years have different configurations. Beau said this was one of the easier ones. The steering box is bolted to a big steel plate on the inside of the bay. To get the pitman arm off the steering box shaft you need to remove a side panel from the generator box or cut a big hole, get a big pitman arm puller and pull it off. Then hold the box up with a floor jack to disconnect the steering wheel shaft and the remaining bolts. And then deal with more than 100 lbs of a dirty, oily hard to manage steering gear that has been leaking for some time. Not a task for a recently rebuilt shoulder.
(https://s13.postimg.org/csntrkv5z/8_E9_CCD76-_C1_C8-4_DFE-_B256-245180_F8_D891.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Pull the generator, drain coolant, pull radiator and blower.
(https://s13.postimg.org/7u0bd448n/A49_CBFB2-_BA0_F-489_F-9689-_A8954_D7_E754_A.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://s13.postimg.org/bqdn93wxz/CA0_D9142-86_B1-43_D3-8_D97-776_AD29_AA5_FE.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://s13.postimg.org/gp15npdmf/DA4360_B4-21_AD-4_FAE-8_C53-6_F189_D0_B5_DFB.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Here is the box in a box sent for rebuild and returned in the box.
(https://s13.postimg.org/ns913clmv/66_C9_E35_C-_D7_F4-4_EF7-98_F8-215_E182_FA736.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
I was really lucky that Rudy Legett was coming here to do an AH service on the coach next to us so he volunteered to haul the box back to Chalk Truck in Houston. It turned out that the AH service needed more time to replace a control board so he brought it back as well. Chalk did the rebuilt in less than a day. A giant thank you to my good friend Rudy. He is the poster guy for being as selflessly helpful as one could hope for.
__________
And the box that was inside the box, all rebuilt, cleaned up.
(https://s13.postimg.org/z4lml6zhj/5_D5_C9_D9_B-4_BC8-470_E-9_E1_E-_D7_B64_FFAA924.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
And the box in place up against the inside wall of the bay waiting for bolts.
(https://s13.postimg.org/5pfyc903r/3_B9_D92_F4-_BB5_A-43_BA-935_E-0_AE7_D4_CDA678.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Almost everything else happens out of sight. Beau was squirming aroung under the coach with horribly outsized tools. The Pitman arm is put back on, the steering coupling is attached to the box and to the steering column. The side panel to the generator space is replaced. The hydraulic lines are reconnected The generator coolant lines, radiator and blower are reinstalled.
All new coolant was used for the generator, bleed the air out of the generator cooling system. We ran the generator to make sure there were no air pockets and no leaks.
We added oil back to the hydraulic system, started the engine and checked for leaks. Turned the wheels all the way to the left, made some measurements, all the way to the right, made some more measurements. We were not hitting the hard stops and turning an equal amount in the each direction. Then we aligned the wheels to straight ahead, again making measurements and made some adjustments to the drag link (I think that is what it was called) to adjust the steering wheel a bit to straight ahead.
Cleaned up, shared the contents of the swag box from Chalk Truck Parts with everyone (coffee cups, note pads, bottle openers, can kozies) exchanged paper and we were done. Beau is going to come back when we leave to make sure steering wheel alignment is true. It will be close and any adjustment seems easy.
All in it was a bit more $ than I thought it would be but far less than the cost reports I have heard from this being done at FOT or MOT. Beau knows his stuff and seems to have a pretty organized work process. I will ask him to do more when we need it.
Roger
Great write up and pictures Roger, my setup is a bit different than yours as I only have a 8KW gen
Thanks
Nice job Roger! Did you clean and paint the parts that you removed before reinstalling?
Geeeze, There was not much time to scrape, prime and paint stuff. I cleaned up as much as I could, there was a bit of a mess in the pan in the bay. When we get back to Hastings I am going to pull the gen out and do the prep and paint on the rusty bits in there. I want to pull the windshield washer jug, clean it up and wire in a second pump or a bigger pump. When it is time to clean the windows it just dribbles. I want squirt! Time available, I would have pressure washed the whole bay.
Roger my replacement wiper arms have a two squirt hole per side nozxle end mounted on the arm
My wiper squirrels just dribbled also, so I took them off along with the tubing and soaked them in CLR for a few hours and cleaned out the orffics with s/s wire. Worked much better after that
Yours is pretty Roger, but there's just something special about a REDHEAD!
To make more room in the streetside front bay, we moved windshield washer jar to front side of same wall it was mounted on. Now it sits in the empty space between front cap and bay compartment forward wall. I think we even used the same mounting holes, just reversed the setup.
I'm shipping a box off to Redhead. $495 was the quote plus shipping (~$70 each way).
Thanks for the current info krush.
That is just what they quoted for me too.
I drove mine today for a couple hundred miles, no leaks, feels right.
You mean you can keep it between the lines now? ^.^d
I could before, it doesn't drive differently that it did before. It was just leaking. At some point an alignment might be a good idea, just 87K miles. Shocks some day too.
mine has 141K and it likes to wander all over but I checked the tires the other day and the fronts are at 105 and 110 so I know they are over pressured.
I did find a place close that has scales but it is just by axle, so in a week or so I will go over and fill it up and see what the pressure should be but I imagine it should be around 85. I will see how it handles after I set the correct pressure.
Ours was weighed on all four corners with 50% fluids. With the Michelin 255/80R 22.5 tires, she gets 85 all around. ^.^d
Thanks Mike, I have a new set of Uniroyal's. Next week I will have all my water system parts so I can fill it with water then before I weight it at TA I will fill it with fuel, I will probably only carry about 1000 lbs of stuff so my best guess it will come close to 85 psi, the sticker says 87 psi.
You'll be blown away how much the liquids weigh. The fact of so many people switching batteries & propane tanks around without re-weighing amazes me. Oh well. ::)
Bump!!!
I think I will take my box out next weekend and send it off to Red Head.. Anyone have the procedure to check the stops( I think thats what its called) after or before install? Is there a way to mark it before hand? Or any ideas? thanks
To verify where the stops are currently (doesn't necessarily mean they are set correctly):
Screw each screw out until flush, counting and recording the number of turns.
Guess you could also screw them all the way in, but would need to be careful to NOT harm the seats.
Then, after installation, check and adjust the cut angle AND mechanical stops on the steering knuckles. Remember, you need a gap between mechanical stop and the limit determined by the steering box adjustments.
You can download the owners manual from Sheppard, the instructions are in the manual.
Here are the instructions for the manual stops
When they did mine I talked with them on the phone and I think they said they don't mess with the stops when reworking them. You might want to ask them.
Mark
I do not question what mark Mark said. But I would sure invest the 2 minutes to confirm initial stop settings.
I read they didnt either but with my luck.. I'd rather check it twice and be sure than to not check and have an issue
its out... took about 3 hrs from start to getting it actually out...Almost by myself.. My son Helped and a friend when it came time to lower the box.. I did not remove the squirrel cage or the gen radiator.. just slid the gen out and made a 2" hole at the bolt for the Arm removal... we will see how the install goes in a couple weeks
My hat's off to you guys who take this on. I saw two guys (or was it three) at Motorhomes struggling for quite a while to get one out. It looked like a very tough jog. Bien hecho.
jor
Good job, David. It looked to me like the hardest part was getting the pitman arm off the shaft. I just don't have that kind of tool. I hope you have a floor jack to hoist it back into place. It is awkward and heavy.
After ours went back in we had to do some adjustment to get the steering wheel lined up. It takes a short drive on a straight road to get it right. Don't make any assumptions about the stop setting adjustment either. Check and adjust as needed
I borrowed Lon's tool.. would not have gotten it off wow was it tight.. it took more time than almost anything
Where is the stop at.. there is a hole in the top with a screw in it... is that it?
How can we get our manual stop steering gear rebuilt and end up with an automatic stop steering gear?
There is a screw port on the top and bottom. I don't recall which one works which side. When you turn to the left or right at some point the hydraulic pressure is relieved and you cant turn any further. What you don't want to have happen is the turning part making hard contact with the axle. The pressure cut out should stop the turning anpbout 1/4" before the hard stops on both sides.
This is a two person job with flashlights, a small screw driver and walkie talkies.
If these are set wrong and you make a hard stop contact you are likely to blow a seal under preasure. Not good.
There apparently is an automatic version, I am not sure is FT used these but the adjustment process is different.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6-zAfAqpyoU&time_continue=293
Sheppard Steering M100PDP1 (http://beamalarm.com/Documents/sheppard_steering_M100PDP1.html)
Update from Readhed Steering it you were wondering..
Rebuild takes 2-3 days on this unit and runs $496 + $60 in freight each direction
As of today 6-18-2018
My '03 has auto adjust
I should have the steering box back by fri or monday.. hope its fri so I can get this thing back together..
Do I need to fill the steering box with fluid at any point before hand? dont want to burn anything up .. what would be the fluid procedure for installation?
Thanks
David,
1. No
2. Hook up your hoses, make sure that the hyd. tank is full, (did you install 3 new filters and oil in the tank?) now crank. By the time you let loose of the key the gear box will be pressurized. Any air will be purged out back to the tank through the return hose. After you check your stops make sure you recheck your hyd. oil level.
Pamela & Mike
You will have to add some oil in the hyd reservoir, could be a couple quarts. It depends on how much you drained out of the lines. You may also need to adjust the steering wheel to be at the right position when going straight ahead. This is best done with a short drive.
Be sure you check left and right stop settings. It takes two people to do this to ensure you don't make hard contact.
Also a good time to change filters and oil, particularly if there is any "metal sheen" when you put an oil sample in the sun light.
Ok, I believe there is a filter in the big reservoir housing? Where are the others that will need changed? I checked the stops before it left and will double check before and after install also..Thanks for the help
They are all in the reservoir, 3 I believe.
Correct. Three stacked on top of each other.
Remove the banjo clamp holding the lid on.
Siphon/suck the fluid out of the reservoir (so you do not mix the unfiltered fluid on the outside with the filtered fluid on the inside of the filters.
Remove the wing nut and large washer (no tools required.
Pull out the stack of three filters and replace.
Barry's site show 84101b Donaldson
Filter hydraulic, 84101B, Nelson Exhaust (https://www.ryderfleetproducts.com/nelson-exhaust-84101b/filter-hydraulic-p-nel-84101b)
Is it 3 of these in the tank?
Edit
Get the old oil out of the reservoir, remove the filters and add the oil back? then top off? sound good?
That's the right filter and here's what it looks like. Also, I would take Brett's advice on cleaning up the tank. Check out what mine looked like. Probably never opened in 20 years.
jor
Make sure you get a new gasket for the housing.
Suspect Richard is talking about the gasket around the lid.
If it does leak/weep, it can always be replaced later in under 10 minutes with no loss of fluid, etc.
Sorry, don't have the PN handy.
Also, to keep dirt out of the reservoir, I tape a large trash sack/plastic over the area above the reservoir.
Thanks, Mike.
Yup, that is it.
JOR, Thanks for the photos. Images of what we are talking about always helps.
You think there is anyone that would carry the filters and the gasket in town? tried NAPA and they can order the filter.. nothing on the gasket. Big truck store?
Again, the gasket doesn't have to be done at the same time.
IF it leaks, can be done at a later time.
Remember, this is the gasket for the top lid. Oil level only reaches it if sloshing (like going around corner)/ normal oil level is several inches below the gasket.
If there is a shop in the area that sells o-rings you may be able to match one up,the "gasket is like a o-ring",think we had to get the filters from one place and the gasket from another,here's a tip,get a spare it's only a couple of bucks.
I ordered online.
Well it's in. Took a couple hours to get it in and buttoned up.. waiting on my filters and gasket. After undoing the ring on the resivoir I figured out why it seeped ... no gasket lol.. soon to be fixed!!
Then test everything to make sure it is right. Set up an alignment so all will be good.
Also set the end stops!
I wanted to add that these are $3.29 .. Amazon was 70$ I beleive for 3.. bought 3 for 30$
Get the old oil out of the reservoir, remove the filters and add the oil back? then top off? sound good?
Yes. Don't lose the wingnut while removing the filters!
It was a close one... I was thinking the same thing while I was removing it... :)) ^.^d
Ok Dummy I is... I didnt know that the stop screw came out.. first problem and not so much a problem unless........the motor is running.. Anyone want to guess how much oil I lost?
Wow that stuff comes out fast under pressure >:( :o .. Holy smokes its quick!!! what a mess :'(
Word to the beginner... Dont back the stops out under pressure.. check while engine is off!!!!
How far out past flush with the body of the box resulted in this red bath? And, I am surprised that you got that far without hitting the mechanical stop on the steering knuckle.
I was on the lower one... a tad past flush is all it took lol..Time for a shower and a soak in some degreaser lol... I need a hot tube so I can soak my parts!!
Need to refill the oil level to full after I took a shower and ate most of it...Messy stuff.. Going to be getting everything packaged up and sent back out (Thanks Lon).. the required tool saved a lot of frustration..I made one and will be sending it back to you Lon just in case you need another..(something to do lol)
Made one with all tools for pretty cheap. I made an extra for myself also. Powder tomorrow and then package them up to send out.. Thanks again everyone..
".I made one and will be sending it back to you Lon just in case you need another..(something to do lol)"
Doing the steering box again for "something to do" will be on the TO DO list right after slitting my wrists!
The puller you made looks GREAT!
Glad everything worked out and the steering box is no longer a problem, maybe better than ever.
I hope.. dont think it was to bad for 225k miles .. but we will see how well it does