I am getting new house batteries this week and don't want them to suffer the same fate as the last ones. Since the coach has spent a lot of time in storage outside, I am looking into a solar powered way to keep both the chassis and house batteries charged. I am not ready to go for a full solar powered system at this time for the entire coach. What recommendations do you have, if any, on solar panel, charger etc. When in storage, I keep the batteries disconnected to remove the parasitic drain. I am not opposed to having a unit which can be removed easily before taking the coach out, so a permanent mount isn't top priority.
Thanks in advance,
Larry
I would use the search on here, so much info on solar
AM Solar is not the cheapest, but I like the completeness of their kits.
RV & Trailer Solar Kits, Panels & Chargers: Portable Solar Power: AM (https://amsolar.com/rv-solar-panels-complete-kits)
If you scroll down on this page, they also have portable panels (though I would be concerned about theft).
Solar Panels for RVs & Trailers, Camping Solar Panel Kits | AM (https://amsolar.com/rv-solar-panel-kit/panel-kits)
Edit: Hook up solar to coach house batteries, add a Trik-L-Charge to keep chassis batteries up.
Starting storage with full house and chassis batteries, using Trik L Start or similar, salesman switch off, 200 -300 watts charging your large house bank will keep all your batteries very happy As previously noted, using search will yield a huge amount of useful info from prior threads
When you run a wire down to the basement use a larger thicker wire. Plan for a larger setup, later in the future.
I myself bought my panels off craigslist 4ea at 300 watts.. I went with victron for all of the charging and inverting and I also adddd a color display in the coach above the microwave. I have not had any issues and I am happy with the ease of display and the ease of network. I can check on the charging with an app on my phone. The blue matches the grey carpet and makes it look really cool in the basement.. I installed everything myself . About 4 day or so with a helper
Why do you need solar if batteries are disconnected? Are you finding your batteries discharge too much while cables are disconnected? We have been storing outside with solar so we did not disconnect cables. But we are moving to under cover storage and put a high amp switch on house ground to disconnect, hoping our batteries would not discharge much.
Do we need to be concerned?
We considered a single about 150 watt panel hanging on back of coach that still gets sunlight.
There are 'self-regulating' panels that do not need a controller, that you could position in sunlight and run a cable to clip on your batteries. Self-regulating panels have some disadvantage because they do not stop charging when batteries are full, and do not work with a future regulator.
Or if you are still thinking about future, you could buy a 150 to 200 watt panel that ideally will still be sold in the future, wire it to a 30 amp controller like $250 SolarBoost 3000i, and then clip to your batteries. All this equipment could be used in the future with 1 or 2 more panels.
Solar Panel and Solar Regulator / Controller Charging FAQS (http://www.cruzpro.com/solar.html)
Your 96 has two 8d's for the House and three red tops new for your m11.
My 97 needed the same fix. Same killed batteries. No power in storage.
After researching this for a few years here and with my guru buddies help I think he and I came up with a good solution for a reasonable amount of money.
Installed two 130 watt solar panels on the street side of the coach. Ran the smaller gsuge wire down the refer vent and attached it to the back of the refer to tap into the battery system separate from the salesman switch.
Small solar controller under refer. 14 amp max in good sun.
Had my buddy install a sealand ME-ARC auto combiner where the isolator was. Used the boost wire which was removed to run the off-auto-in switch in the left panel where the boost switch was.
The solar auto connects the two battery systems under charge of 13 volts or more.
Magnetic switch, no power consumption. As soon as the batteries drop to 12,75 volts for a short time the auto disconnect takes over.
The 14 amp max output is enough to slowly charge up fairly low SOC batteries over a few days.
Started 34 years ago working for Foretravel. Finally a fool proof system. Unless of course no sun?
The combiner install and the panels I had my buddy do,
I blew up several trickl and a xantrex unit.
All the new coaches come with a combiner and normally some solar
If you are going for basic, absolutely the lowest price new, this will be hard to beat from Harbor Freight for $150. 100 Watt Solar Panel Kit (https://www.harborfreight.com/100-watt-solar-panel-kit-63585.html) and you can find a 20% off coupon if you just google Harbor Freight and digital. Digital Savings and Coupons from Harbor Freight (https://www.harborfreight.com/digitalsavings.html)
The solar controller on this Harbor Freight panel kit is basic, I would be much more be inclined to pay $50 additional for something like this of higher quality from Morningstar and wire it in. Morningstar SunSaver SS-10 Solar Charge Controller | 10 amp 12 volt (https://www.solar-electric.com/ss-10.html) As you will learn, there is a huge difference in controllers. An example is a bad controller could back charge (discharge) your batteries at night. Have fun, you will enjoy learning.
Or check out Am Solar for their DIY videos and a great place to start for information and to buy from.
Solar Panel Installation for RVs & Trailers | AM Solar (https://amsolar.com/solar-panels-for-rv/)
RV Solar Panel Kits & Camping Solar Panels, Batteries & Chargers: AM (https://amsolar.com/)
I would still monitor your portable solar system. I would also install negative ground cutoffs to eliminate any parasitic draw to disconnect batteries from rv when they are fully charged and you are away for a while.
Thanks everyone for your responses. I have used the search within the forum and yes there is a huge amount of information. Mostly for permanent solar which is likely in the future. I too like the AM Solar website and would like to use them when the time comes. I am uncertain about the Trik-L-Charge. Does it plug into 120 outlet and hook onto the chassis battery? If so then, I assume that I would need to leave the batteries hooked up and allow the house batteries to power the 120.
B&C. I disconnected the house batteries last fall when I realized I wouldn't be able to regularly return to exercise the coach. When I pulled them out last weekend to take to the house to put on charger, 1 was at 2.9v, 1 had 4.3v. They were only 4 years old. I assume they had discharged to the point of no return. Thankfully the chassis battery was at 12.5.
Jack, I just saw the Harbor Freight ad last night. I hoped to do some research on it to see how it stood up to usability. I will compare it with what I find out from the link to AM Solar (thanks Dan). If the prices are within reason, I would go with AM for the likelyhood of future expansion.
I truly want to thank all for your help and advice. As I go forward in my learning curve I will most likely be asking more questions.
Larry
Trik L Start basically is hooked to your battery isolator and "bypasses" the isolated to combine the battery banks with intelligence so that you can charge the chassis batteries without fear of discharging the house batteries beyond a set low point
With Trik L start you do not have to be plugged into shore power or run an investor to make 115 V out of the house battery to power a battery tender or battery minder 12 V charge device for the chassis battery
so a solar array keeping the house batteries up in combination with a Trik L Charger will keep both banks up without any shorts power connection
if the Trik L Start fails, chassis batteries will not get charged
Trik L Start performs the same function no matter how the chassis batteries get charged - solar/generator/alternator - does not matter - if the chassis batteries are getting charged, Trik L start will make sure the house batteries stay charged
Best to start with all batteries fully charged when you go into storage, usually not an issue depending on how far that last rip was before storage.
Tim Fiedler
Sure Start Soft Start (http://www.gen-pro.biz)
TCER Direct (http://www.tcerdirect.com) generator-gas-prod (http://www.generatorgasproducts.com) 630 240-9139
Gen-Pro
This is like religion: So many ideas and many "Truths". Whatever system you choose, I recommend:
1. Hard tie your batteries together. No diode isolator.
2. Equalize flooded batteries weekly. This stirs up the electrolyte and prevents sulfation. After several months, they will need watering. Would an automatic watering system work for extended storage?
If your system does not equalize, keep searching.
3. Keep them topped off in two ways: Electrolyte level and voltage: 12.9 to 13.6 volts
4. You get a 30% refund on your tax return if you add solar, including batteries.
Equalizing flooded cells weekly seems a lot, Other than lifelines no AGM's can be equalized. I know of no charger other than magnum that has a built in second profile specifically for charging lifelines and equalizing them.
Gels can not and do not need equalizing and we're std on every unicoach made.
If your cabling is not prefect,battery rotation in their mount will help distribute the batteries cycle wear
Agree on the physical tie batteries together post. Auto combiner unties them if no charge present
Our AGM manufacturer specifically warns against equalization.
P
Pierce, my Lifelines can be equalized and they recommend max 14.8 for a few hours. I have a sneaky idea in my head that they actually can go to 15.5v but as paperwork is in coach outside and I have not got dressed yet it will have to wait till later.
My Lifelines are now 7 yrs old and seem to be in good shape as I have no problems with dry camping at all. This may be a combination of the Buss Bar battery hook up as well and the alternater was changed to charg at 13.6v at the same time. We also have dedicated solar charging. I cannot remember the last time I used the inverter charger due to solar. My engine batteries get their own solar charge directly and I use a Trik-l- charger as back up.
JohnH
You can and should equalize Lifeline AGM batteries per their literature.
Roland
John, they equalize at a much higher voltage and longer time.
Can I equalize AGM batteries? - Lifeline Batteries (http://lifelinebatteries.com/2015/10/can-i-equalize-agm-batteries/)
The ability to be equalized of the Lifelines separates them from all other AGM's
That being said my guru buddy had a set that may have been incorrectly equalized as the cases bulged out.
Lifeline did not want to warranty them because of the incorrect process.
Not sure exactly what internal programming difference magnum uses in their decicated lifeline charging and equalization versus just up the voltage for x amount of time but if I owned a set of them a phone call to them might be a good idea?
Just a quick update.
I got 2 new 8d batteries.
I got the harbor freight solar kit for $150.
Was planning on installing this weekend, but life happens. Gotta go back to Denver for a couple of weeks for work. The new batteries are on the workbench with trikle charger.
Larry
Your 8Ds will be fine sitting on the bench with out a charger. If you leave anything connected it should be a multistage battery maintainer. A constant amp trickle charger is not a good choice.
Roger
Cman, I did say I thought it was 15.5 but could not remember off hand. I do it for 2-3 hrs once a month (or when I remember) and originally had the Morningstar controller set to do it automatically from the solar, but as the original one had a fault they sent me a new one and I did not set this one up with the same program, just left it in the AGM standard setting and figured I could do the Equalizing myself!!
Anyway bottom line is I feel that these batteries are doing fine for 7 yr old and hope to get 10 out of them.
JohnH
Keeping a cover on the coach at home precludes solar charging. Our engine batteries lasted almost 9 years without equalization and our house AGMs are going strong after the same period, all with just the OEM charger on shore power. While on the road with solar, the Midnite controller keeps the AGMs in good shape along with the jumper keeping the engine batteries full.
Pierce
My Xantrex won't let me equalize when set for AGM's I have to change it to flooded, equalize, then reset it to AGM, kind of a pita.
If I can ask a favor here the posts that mention batteries that have certain traits and so many years use and still work are helpful. My first thought was what exact capacity the batteries are after testing? Please? The idea that the power still works is somewhat meaningless without an actual capacity measurement. Would you not agree?
C man, I do it by using the seperate Tristar panel which is part of my solar set up. The Xantrex Inv we have does not have an AGM setting and suggest using the flooded one which is very close to the charging needed by AGMs.
I agree that changing from AGM to Flloded on the dip switches is a PITButt but if it means a few years extra life for batteries I think it is worth it!!
JohnH
Unless you have lifelines no AGM's that I am aware of are supposed to be equalized?
My monitor for the SW3012 doesn't use dip switches lcd display with user settings. I am able to pick my equalize, bulk, absorption and float voltages and length of time. It just doesn't know that Lifeline AGM's can be equalized so it locks out that feature on AGM's
As far as mine operates If you set your me-rc remote for AGM 1 the equalize circuit puts out 15.5 volts in a four hour cycle. And the charge voltage is 14.3. Lifeline only
In agm2 for non lifeline batteries the charge voltage is higher 14.5 and the equalization is the same, does not work.
Same as gel. No equalization extra voltage if the button is pushed.
The me-rc manual showing the lifeline equalization availability is from 2009 it's possible your remotes software could be older and may be uodateable?
My SW3012 is a 2017 model I have set the voltage to 16 for equalizing which is within the parameters of Lifeline. Remember I have a Xantrex. It does let me set times and voltages, just doesn't recognize equalizing AGM's
My IOTA DLS-90 has a optional feature, called IQ4, which equalizes every week. From IOTA's literature, It "automatically provides four-stage battery charging for safer charging and longer life for your system's battery." The IQ4 module was developed by smart, although not perfect, engineers.
It works by increasing the charge voltage to 14.2 volts for one hour each week. This is what I would call a "gentle" equalization. I believe Gel and AGMs do not require equalization since their electrolyte is held in place and does not stratify like flooded batteries. That said, it's not harmful to charge any lead battery to 14.2 volts weekly because it's good to perturb the electrolyte regularly.
Tim, your system is above my pay grade, but nice though.
Craneman I have a sw 2812. Sister to your sw3012. Both use either a me-rc or the me-arc remote panels,
In the manual for either remote it shows the battery types, two different AGM profiles are in the menu,
AGM One is for your lifelines. AGM Two is for the rest,
AGM one has its max charging voltage set for the lower internal resistance Lifeline batteries at 14.3 and when the equalization process is triggered it sends 15,5 volts for four hours to your batteries
AGM two has its max at 14.5 volts and if used on lifelines will slowly damage them from overcharging,
If you try to equalize in AGM 2 nothing happens. Same 14.5 volts,
Gel profile does not allow equalizing either. Same 14.2 max volts as charging.
16 volts into a lifeline is not good,
All these voltages are based on 78 degrees and a BTMS is needed to avoid over or undercharging any battery bank.
The ME-ARC shows how many days since equalization and as it has a clock inside can be set to remind you at a future date to equalize,
Once or maybe twice a year unless a heavy continuous user or your use short cycles the batteries a lot?
Obviously 16 volts in colder weather might be ok I do not know what voltage the BTMS will have the charger send out in the AGM 1 profile if the equalize function is engaged during colder weather than the 78 degrees that is the std temp profile.
But the chart says 15.5 max so I would think the EQ voltage regardless of temp is that number?
The ARC version of the remote panel allows bulk charge reagsrdless of battery SOC and has a silent mode.
Both panels manuals are available for download.
The ARC can be reset to turn on the charger above the RC's default 80% SOC so the batteries are not running down to 80% and back up all the time. Needless cycling unless on limited power
From Lifeline. 16 is within the 15.5 to 16.3
Can I equalize AGM batteries? - Lifeline Batteries (http://lifelinebatteries.com/2015/10/can-i-equalize-agm-batteries/)
Never seen a charging amount that high on our Lifelines with the "Truecharge 40". Every couple of months, or after we've dry camped, it will decide to put the hammer down for a couple of hours. Maybe that is "equalilzation" or just normal? In our three years full timing, the batteries have behaved well.
My mistake the model numbers are similar. Xantrex does not have the lifeline particular setup in it.
Liquid acid Flooded and AGM both are good at producing CCA's at less than full charge. More than Gels. Which makes them excellent in marine banks. Both cycling and engine start capability make them the best choice there.
All liquid acid batteries sulfate it seems. Almost all lose capacity over time, hard to perfectly recharge and equalize them.
An advantage of Gels is they seem to not sulfate and not need equalization and are able to be normally recharged to 100% original capacity.
So while AGM's start out with more capacity after five years or so they may measure less.
I spent countless hours long ago playing with coach battery systems.
Never sold a used coach then without replacing every battery in it, never.
Equalized myself to death.
So the flooded/ AGM as the start battery works well. Better cca's in cold weather.
Not deep cycled normally.
Roger,
I don't have a true trickle charger. It is a multistage charger like you noted.
Thanks.
Larry
I think this was briefly discussed few years back. I wanted to solicit opinions one more time. Since last discussed there are new products out there. To maintain fully charged engine battery via cigarette lighter plug such as Suaoki 18V 12V 18W Solar Car Battery Charger Portable SunPower Solar Panel Trickle Charger with Cigarette Lighter Plug, Battery Charging Clip Line for Motorcycle RV Boat Marine Snowmobile (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0722XB3VQ/ref=sspa_dk_detail_2?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B0722XB3VQ&pd_rd_wg=7Jw6I&pd_rd_r=W20YE0BF54FXDHTV4B5H&pd_rd_w=Tval2)
I have my reasons for wanting this setup, while under covered parking be able to keep the portable solar panels on the dash, inside where few hours of none direct sunlight hits the area. I have tested it with a small solar rechargeable flashlight.
Thank you,
AL
1.5 amps of 12 volt may or may not keep things up.
My first thought was to use a double female adaptor and if one is not enough to plug in two units?