Well I thought that my past windshield shifting had been rectified with the new gaskets done a few years ago. We had not had any issues ... But yesterday I was sitting in the coach here in the campground at Daytona and see something I thought was just laying on the windshield. No it was a crack from too to bottom on the right windshield. The two sides also separated about 1/4 inch in the middle from the rubber strip. I am parked on almost level grass here I leveled the coach etc. My buddy and I were able to take 2 good sam plastic cards and with him outside standing on front bumper and myself inside we were able to slide the plastic cards under the rubber strip and work the glass edge back into the rubber. Once in we were able to slip the rubber side to side to even the space of the two glass halves. So now I am hoing to need a right side windshield. I am wondering if my progressive insurance covered this it is full coverage. I'll read into it when we get back home.
Stump, could there be any problem of de lamination of the front cap from the chassis causing this fiber glass to shift. Another previous FT owner, John Duld, pointed out to me his front cap came loose and he could push on the windshield and make the entire cap move prior to having the cap reattached. Maybe John Duld or someone else with specific knowledge of this happening, and/or causing your issue, could post.
Stump,
You are too nice a person to have all these bad things happen to you.
To help Karma fix things, buy a lottery ticket. ^.^d
Trent
The cap was inspected by Tn RV when I first got the coach and the glass shifted. They replaced all the rubber moulding. That was about 2 grand. The left glass shifted again and China Grove Glass and Coach worked it back in and charged me 100.00. Clyde also said he did not see any issues with the cap either at that time. I spoke with Clyde at China Grove Glass and Coach this morning and I'll get up with him after we get back from bike week and have them take care of everything. He has been doing coaches since about 1958 I think he said. It is what it is I'm not going to let it ruin my good time! ^.^d
Our windshields move around quite a bit. The driver's side developed a gap to the outside a while back. I thought about gluing it but decided it might be best to let the glass move as it wants. I wait until it's warm and then push it back to where it looks OK. We take the coach down a lot of gravel and dirt roads so are very careful to make the transition from pavement to side road very carefully. We live up on the side of a canyon and getting the coach from it's parking spot to the driveway requires a lot of chassis flexing along with plenty of noise from the front cap.
Foretravel did a terrible job with the front cap design on the GVs. Just no steel/aluminum anywhere. Have you ever tried walking out on it to work on the ICC lights? Scary! I put a blanket on it and crawl now. So far, all we get is a lot of creaking and complaining as it twists but the glass has survived. Keeping fingers crossed.
Your insurance company should replace it without much protest. Any glass shop with a good reputation should be able to do it quickly.
Pierce
Stump, I'm so sorry for your windshield frustrations. We can sympathize, as we had our share of windshield woes, too - gaps, shifting, etc. Ours is not a Grand Villa, so of course, things are different.
We had Xtreme reset the windshield twice, and it eventually shifted both times. After MUCH research on gaskets (who makes them, brands, thickness, difference in manufacturing plants), and MUCH research on the 3 different brands of windshields (thickness, curves, tint), we determined the gasket and the glass itself was not the problem.
I learned that it was "common" practice for some windshield installers to shave a little bit off the fiberglass around the windshield to get them to fit easier. THAT ended up being our problem. I have pictures of when Xtreme propped up our windshield in the windshield space, and the amount of gap on the radius up top was alarming. There is no way a gasket could hold that thing in place without movement and shifting.
Solution: Rance re-fiberglassed and built up the radius curves so that there would be more "bite" in the gasket holding the windshield firmer. That was over 3 years ago, no problems since.
(*side note* this was my 200th post - YAY, ME!)
When I first looked at the pic, I went to brush what I thought was dog hair off the screen! Never seen a crack like that. I see what looks like "fogging" on the lower edge, caused by delamination. We see it up north, but not down here. Knock on glass, we have yet to have a "windshield story", would like to know what caused that mess!
My windshield squeaked from the first day I got the coach. Was always very careful when transitioning from one surface to another. Last year my windshield popped out (driver's side).I got both windshields and gasket replaced at FOT. I had delamination on the front cap. FOT fixed the delam replaced the windshields and I have not heard a squeak since.
Roland
Stump, give Hans a shout. He had this issue and did his own repair.
Enjoy your trip!
I have a feeling that changing the rubber around the glass contributes to the popping. While it seems to make sense to also change rubber, leaving the original rubber in place and sliding in a new piece of glass, problems may be avoided. Usually there is no indication that new rubber is needed.
Check the width of your problem gasket, there are 2 different widths. The new wide one is approx. 1-3/4" the other is really narrow about 1". When jacking, do not twist the coach.
When our right-side windshield cracked a couple of years ago the insurance company sent a mobile outfit to install the new windshield. As we were scheduling the appointment I told them that it looked like the gasket had been damaged so they ordered a new gasket. The new gasket wasn't the right one, but the original was still good so they reused it.
As Pierce said, the whole nose assembly is actually a collection of separate parts flying in close formation accompanied by all sorts of interesting sounds. Since the last "regular" GV was made more than 20 years ago all of those parts are aging and joints are wearing. Hmmm, sounds like my knees. Anyway, if you got 20 years out of a windshield you are doing well.
Stump,
Does your coach have the "hand holds" mounted below the windshield? These were added as a fix for front cap movement on the Grand Villas--- my previous coach, a 1990 Grand Villa Unihome had them added, and i never had a problem with the windshield. I dont think the current owner has either. The screws holding the hand holdds are long, and go into the plywood bulkhead and help hold the frontt cap in place.
Take a close look at the front body mounts. You may want to add a pair of triangulated struts from the frame up to the cowl/Grab rails.
Kinda like the Aussy guy did.
My LR body mount is the only rusty place on my ORED and I am now repairing the mount , but there are a few places in the nose that could use a re-engineer as well.
For local delam repair, I use Gorilla glue with water , shoved in with a syringe and air gun.
If replacing front airbags on a GV, it might be good to raise both sides at the same time to avoid twisting the front.
We don't have the handles up front but it might be good to see about installing long screws to possibly stabilize the cap.
Pierce
I agree with protech that additional triangulation may prevent some of the movement. Experiment with a cracker box basically open on the windshield end and the back end realitivly well secured. Trouble is I think its the roof at the top front that needs triangulated to prevent windshield movement. So maybe remove all heavy stuff in the overhead compartments especially at the front, and if possible back out some screws inside the upper cabinets add washers to screws into the sidewall and the roof structure and snug them up back up again while on a level pad to help restore orignal stiffness of the overhead structure. As the cabinets help triangulate the roof to the sidewall. Just my 2 cents.
I don't know anything about triangulation but what I do know is that since Foretravel repaired and put their food in for my delamination and windshield install I don't have any more squeaks. I seem to remember someone on the Forum tried to engineer a solution for their front flexing and were unsuccessful. I would go to the experts, either FOT or MOT. But DWMYH.
Roland
We had a repeat windshield popping out at a corner problem, and separation down the center. All caused by rotten plywood. I opened one of the service doors in the nose and found to my surprise I could shove my finger through the 3/4" plywood above the doors and under the dash. I got to learn about removing enough of the dashboard to get to it but once there that plywood came out and got used as a template. I put a 3/4" sheet of that green treated plywood in there, held in place with lag screws and vast amounts of 3M 5200. I got fancy with drain channels and a couple plastic lined weep holes to let condensation out but that may not have been strictly necessary. It's been 5 years and many washboard roads and that glass hasn't moved since. You might wanna check that plywood.
Yes the design has the plywood as the main structure. Every time it cycles it gets weaker and water destroy it's usefulness.
Triangulating the nose in front of the plywood, engaging the dash and upper area of the cap should let this live another 20 yrs. IMHO.
Stump, Do you have the angle iron boxes from the frame to the firewall?
Good thread (unfortunately), I've learned a lot. We have the handles, always thought they were dumb, until I read "the rest of the story" ! ^.^d
Stump....I had my right windshield crack and found the delam issue. Not a bad repair job on 95 since access is easier. Give me a shout or check my prior post.
Hey to Betsy !
Hans
Just finished today installing a new factory one piece gasket and two new factory windshields. The old ones were after market and the gasket was a hodgepodge of different gaskets. Originally I had parked the unit on slightly unlevel surface (1 1/2 out of level) I noticed the drivers side windshield sticking out on the corner. This in a 88 Grand Villa 40'. This played havoc on my budget, but was needed. The expansion strip was the hardest part.
You did that job yourself? I am impressed. It is a bit amazing to me though, what we are willing to do to maintain these coaches. Never in all my days did I think I would ever have been up for a radiator r n r on a rig this size. But you get the quote to have it done, screech like a little girl, and then figure out how to do the job in your driveway. If it comes to it I will try to remember this thread and come back here and pick your brain for how to replace a ginormous GV windshield.
Patience is a virtue when it comes to this replacement (having to shell out 1470 plus for both windshields is a great incentive for patience, plus 240 for the seal). Getting the new gasket center exactly located is important. I marked where the old gasket center was, but was a 1/4 inch off. Needless to say I actually installed the windshield twice after I found the second half didn't quite fit right. I did buy suction cup handles and the curved hook hand tool (Basically a cotter key puller). The best thing was buying 1/2 foam pipe insulation to cover the bottom edge while handling (make sure it doesn't have a glue strip on the insulation). I had scaffolding around the front and would recommend that it made the job a lot easier and safer. Spray bottle with a high concentration of dish soap and water will help, especially when installing the expander strip.
Update note:
Had a couple of inches of rain last night and discovered that the seal channel on the side windows is filling up and seeping over the inside lower lip of the window seal. Outside lip is higher due to the expansion seal. This has been a problem in the past as I repaired and refinished the veneer in the same place. I drilled an 1/8 inch weep hole on the outside of the seal up toward the channel and drilled a hole in the aluminum flange of the frame. Got quite a bit of water out the hole. The veneer was refinished bout 3 inches from the corner. Hole is on the bottom seal, not the side as shown in picture
And I always thought that the handles below the windshields were for getting up on the bumper to wash the windshield. Always good to learn some thing new. Have a great day ---- Fritz
Fritz, did you notice that when the bumpers disappeared, so did the handles and the access doors?
I use the handles to get up on the bumper, also.
Still suffering windshield woe's.... Turned it in to Progressive who turned it over to Duncan Systems. Duncan started out the gate swinging!! New windshield ordered right away. I told them who I wanted to do the install. China Grove Coach and Glass.
I got a tracking number and followed it , Tracking said delivery delayed by consignee. I called China Grove Coach and they said Duncan did not want to pay them what they charge for a glass replacement. They would only pay 350.00 He said these windshield they charge 375.00 because they sometimes have to reseat the other side. He said he told them not to deliver the windshield if they did not want to pay his price. I'm on his side with that. I'm like WTF!!! Ill pay the additional 25.00. I called Duncan and talked to my rep there who told me last Friday, Let me call them and I'll call you right back. I still have not gotten that call back from Duncan. I called China Grove and They got a E-mail approving the 375.00 charge. But Duncan did not know where the windshield had gone too.... Sooooo We Wait...smdh ....Duncan's customer service and communication STINKS!!!!!! Phone calls Monday, stump is getting ready to rattle the cage door!!! 8)
After replacing the seal and both windshield of my 88 Grand Villa I have had problems with the glass shifting anytime I got on unleveled ground. I had thought that the problem was a result of the top shifting, but after reading the input here that my thinking was 180 out and that it is more the lower half. After replacing the floor covering I found the plywood was in good shape in the front and that the grab handles had been added some time in the past. But today reading that I need to check the plywood deck on the dash. I found that the center section was gone/damaged. It seems that the blocks that the grab handles were attached to were only glued/caulked to the dash. I think while it is apart that I may build an angle iron frame to help stiffen the front to mount the plywood deck to. That and the use of marine plywood as it is waterproof and much strong due to the amount of laminates used versus treated plywood. Had I not read this discussion I would not have found this out as both the underside and top side of this plywood were hidden and would not have been found under a general inspection. Thanks for the wisdom, just have to lookup new defrosters and vent pieces.
A good reason to use a stepladder rather than the handles to clean the windshield and add 303 rubber cleaner/sealer to the gaskets.
For what it is worth--when our 1989 GV is parked and not being used I retract the front jacks and let the front of the coach sit on the tires. Granted, there are 4" high ramps supporting the wheels but the coach is sitting almost dead level according to the level indicators. The rear jacks are down just enough to steady the coach.
No torquing stress on the front end to subject the plywood bond.
This unit has the air suspension to adjust and leveling the unit and yes after time it does leak down, but it has an small air compressor in the hold that would maintain the level if I turned it on.
Did remove the dash plywood today and found quite a mess. To say some one used at least 6 tubes of RTV would be an understatement. the first 3-4 inches of the plywood's bottom was coated in it. The gap which varied from an 1/8 to over 1/2 inch was filled with RTV. The blocks for the handles are attached using RTV and the it was used to join the dash deck to the blocks. RTV is too flexible to be used to maintain the needed rigidity needed to keep the lower front from flexing. I am considering using either fiberglass resin or body putty to fill any voids after the new deck is installed. Also going to install new blocks for the grab handles and run them from the window washer spray to the center-some 26 inches each side and attach the deck to each. I have included a picture of the removed deck-or what left of it
Rick...what year is your coach??? Check my prior post for the repair I did on our U300. I used West System 610 and its held up great over the last 8K miles. Solid.!!
West System Six10 Epoxy - YouTube (https://youtu.be/YOB-OE3-4UQ)
Hans
I also suggest the 3M 5200. It is what I used and dynamite wouldnt take it off! Been there for 4 years now.
My GV is a 1988, 40 ft with a 3208 Cat. Was repainted by star/jets (that's another horror store as they didn't even clean the top of dirt, just sprayed over it) some years ago and the sticker just says Unihome. Tennessee title does not provide any other info either.
I think that either the West System or 3M should fill the bill. I know that the RTV they used did nothing to help as it is way to flexible. Now the important question, will doing the dash deck change, making the mounts longer for the grab handles longer up to meeting at center point and using a screw attachment of the deck to handle mounting wood with the use of either system to fill the voids and bond the wood and fiberglass enough to control windshield movement.
I have considered running 1 inch angle on the back edge where this deck meets the rest of the dash and maybe triangulate addition pieces down the outside fender area and back up to the center of the first piece of angle iron. Since I have some 1 1/2 aluminum square tubing have also considered running a piece up from this angle to the curtain channel in the ceiling at each corner of the windshield, or is this a bit of over kill?
The GVF body shell new was flexible new. Lots of windshield movement.
My thoughts on the initial repair was to reinforce with struts etc.........but after looking at the original design and 25+ plus years of service decided to keep it simple (sort of) with modern adhesives .
K I S S principal.....
H
Is this a problem on the ORED?
Not as much, the rail is stiff
Someone /somewhere last week asked me if I had any electrical schematic for my rig. I have an electronic file containing the air, generator and 12v system along with other info. You can send me an email at pikewrench@epbfi.com for a copies
Rick,
Go up to almost the top of our Forum's page and then to last item on the right which will be "Media," then go to Foretravel Library and look for schematics. If you don't see one that you have, please upload it. A late smart phone camera will do a good job of digitizing it and then you can upload.
Pierce
I replaced the plywood on the dash against windshield after finding I could stick my hand thru it. The padded dash with the foam back is a poor design as the foam will hold water leaked by the windshield. After removing the pieces I started by adding a 1" piece of angle iron (took 2 pieces joined by a weld and two bolts in case of needed removal) across the top of front wall(see pic.), curving the ends to fit the contour of the fiberglass body. Next I put pieces on the inside leaving a space for the dash lid hinges. I used cabinet 3/4" plywood 6 ply. Measured the angle of the nose to the dash, cut and assembled the supports that glued to the nose with six10 adhesive. I ran the plywood supports to within 1 inch of the sprayers for the windows. these two pieces glued and screwed with a glue block(After the glue dried the nose pieces were supported on the ends and weight was added to get the piece to bow slightly to help with installation). Blocks were added under the ends of the angle iron, another block was added under each one (two blocks total because of the curved fiberglass did not allow for a big piece). The top took more than a dozen fit-ups before I got it where I wanted. Glued all plywood edges and the top of the angle iron with six10, screwed all joints that could take a screw. Found some Formica countertop that colored match at a local countertop shop, contact glued it down and than sealed all edges with six10. Did reuse the defroster and such as theses are no longer made. ABS pipe glue worked great to glue the one defroster plate I broke in half. The underside defroster housing I used six10 and screws on it.
Let the unit sit a week and moved it today thru an area that had caused me problems to begin with, had no noticeable windshield movement. Was considering adding 1 1/2" thin wall aluminum square tube from the curtain track area to the factory installed 2"angle iron on the front corners of the dash, but I think I will hold off on that for now.
Great work Rick....!!
I would like to thank everyone for the information that was provided here. I probably would not have considered outer dash replacement in dealing with the shifting windshield. Learned that the six10 is great stuff, worked great on repairing the cracks on my tractor fenders. Chose the six10 over the 3M 5200 as the 3M product properties show it is flexible enough to allow movement. Time will only tell if this was a smart choice on my part.
Hi all,
I Just read this thread Does any one have pictures of the grab handles on the front of the Grandvilla,
I tried the search thingy but it doesnt have any thing on it,
I made this frame up and welded and bolted it to the Bulkhead,
But the screen is still moving, I need to triangulate it to the front fibreglass under the windows and back to my frame,
I also need to put packers from the frame to the outside of my Coach, To lock that in position as well so it wont move,
Last time I drove it I thought the windows would fall out,
I also think a lot of my window problems were that the fitter who put my right side window in, Cut a peice of the top of it to make it fit, Did the wrong thing and being shorter allows the window to move,
I havent been doing anything with the coach as I have been very busy repairing my boat to put it back in the water,
But I have a new G/F and she wants to go away in the coach, So I will now get my coach going again,
Thanks, Brian,
Using angles instead of square corners will yield a vastly stiffer" box". We should have the same or similar front frame section, Oshkosh. My nose is very solid at this point with a couple of angle iron rails running upwards. The grab handles dont seem to be attached to the structure. I will look again for better details.
Do you have any piccys of your angle iron rails running upwards,
Our coaches are the same, Mines a 1989 model,
Thaks, Brian,
My rails are stock and square . I may add some angle rails .
Here is a picture of my grab handles with my hand to give you idea of its size. I chose to only top the firewall with one inch angle sandwiching it between angle iron in front and back. Left out sections for the hinges. I had a center piece of plywood sticking out, but it did not go all away to the front. I took 3/4" cabinet grade plywood and ripped two pieces and got the angle of the front using an old carpenters angle finder. I ripped two more piece to go across the front all the way to the wiper motors. Transferred the angle to the top of the pieces and then let them sit with weights on them to bow them, took about a day using a backhoe bucket. Dry fit them to get the angle so the bow piece would mate up with the top. Cut, glued, added glue block, stapled pieces together, used waterproof titebond glue. Getting the right side in was tricky, ended cutting to much but added a filler. Six10 all of it together, added screws in the center pieces. You can see the ends of the handle bolt in the wood. Made a new plywood top from the same grade plywood. Made a template using 1/4 and then transferred. Took more than six tries to get the angle and contour right on the new top. Six10 and screwed it all together including the plywood edge to the fiberglass front. Probably could have eliminated the angle iron by gluing 10-12 inch strips on the firewall out to the Fiberglas front end on each side. The one picture shows the joint in the angle and where I ground the bolt flush
Thank you peoples for the Piccys of your repairs, It makes it so much more easier for me to sort mine out,
I also had the problem that my dash was cut in half and reversed,
Plus there are no Grandvilla's here close to look at, And they have all been converted to right hand drive as well.
I just turned my coach around in my front yard and its still swaying side to side,
But I have a better idea now how to stiffen it all up,
Diagonal bracing from my firewall stiffener to the handles on the front, All my timber is still solid and no rot any where,
And stiffeners to the out side walls of the coach from my brace, As per Piccy, There is a gap there to the outside walls,
I will put a packer in there and that should make the sides of the coach rigid, Bottom of the Screen,
I will extend the timber in the centre to go out to the base of the screen, That will stop it moving in and out,
The centre line of the windows is near perfect,
I will make a brace up that goes behind the seats to stiffen the top cap up and walls from moving also,
I will be testing it all out before I put my new windscreens in, Just in case,
I do have Plan B, I am getting the curves made up in Boat windscreen Plastic, If I break a windscreen in future, I will only have the straight bit of the screen to replace, A steel insert between the two, plastic to glass,
I can get the straight glass any where here, But screens from the USA are 5.5 grand delivered, And the USA is the only place they make the grandvilla screens, They are unavailable here,
Any comments are quite welcome,
Thank you, Brian,
A couple of other small re-engineers..
I removed all of my trim/body strips and injected structural glue into the seams along with
adding 3/16 big head rivits between the screw holes . This includes both caps and the entire side panels. Big improvement, less leaks , etc.
I cut out the floor under the water tank and set the tank on tubes/plywood that sit directly on the frame rails . This removes the 500# of water trying to slosh around the nose cap. I took some precautions to allow the tank to move a little inside the box , but inspections have shown almost no movement .