I've learned a great deal about batteries here, thanks to the members who have responded to my confusion. I have one more request for insight and opinions...
I was convinced through research that the Trojan T-105 6-volt golf cart battery would be a good replacement for my worn-out Gel-Tech bank. However, where the Gel-Tech are sealed, maintenance-free batteries, the Trojan appear to be the type that require monitoring of fluid level and the periodic addition of water. I'm interested in members experience and opinion regarding this maintenance burden.
Thanks in advance to all.
I had Trojan flooded 6-volt batteries in my first coach. The batteries were mounted on a pull out drawer/shelf, so checking the batteries was no problem. I kept a gallon of distilled water on board, and checked levels at least once a month. I sold the coach to someone who failed to check the water levels even though I had showed him how to check. He boiled them dry and destroyed them.
So, if your battery location makes it easy to pull the caps off and visually see water levels, and if you do so on a regular basis and keep them topped off it will be fine.
However if they are difficult to check and top off due to mounted location I advise against it.
Thank you very much. Fortunately mine are readily accessible for maintenance and I am will to do the routine maint in exchange of batteries that are 1/3 the cost of the Gel-Tech!
On a separate but related note, do you have a "smart charger" that does bulk, absorption, and float? If you have a older single stage "battery boiler" charger, you should consider upgrading to help improve battery life and prevent boil off and overcharging.
Corrosive and potentially explosive gas coming off wet batteries make them a non-starter for my personal use. Only benefit is cost advantage of wet batteries, but not compelling to me
Tim made a great point. Is your battery mounting location well vented?
Have 2 Trojan 8D AGM batteries,have had for over a year,no problems,purchased from continental battery.
I replaced my original house gel batteries in 2013 with gel batteries again. That was 12 years on the originals and so far the replacements are doing well. We live full time in our coach, sometimes plugged in, sometimes boondocking. I like the maintenance free part of gel or AGM myself.
Sounds like another personal preference based on $$$ and how much regular work you want to do.
In the words of our late friend Dave M. - do what makes you happy.
Cya down the road................ ^.^d
I am not very good at remembering to check fluids as often as I should. Also, I really don't want to deal with the battery corrosion and off gassing from batteries.
I bought AGM for my coach.
Nothing wrong with tried and true wet batteries. But as others have said they take more care, adding water, cleaning cables, and must be in a well vented area.
I ran 4 - T145 - 6V- - wet cells for about 4 years and never had a issue, they were still good when I replaced them with L16 AGM batteries.
They were on a pull out drawer.
No big deal to use wet cells, just a bit more maintenance and time to monitor them, but then again you have to keep your eye on all batteries. Hurts a lot more ( wallet) when a set of AGM or GEL batteries are ignored and a problem arises and caught too late.
Dan,
That's a very good point, and I do have a multi-stage charger for that purpose.
Dan,
My battery rack is in the wet bay, which is open when parked, but not sure of degree of ventilation while underway.
We have AGM batteries, house has Lifelines, coach has Optima + a dual charger (Truecharge 40) that Brett put in. Every couple of weeks, when we sit at the pier, the batteries will have a self induced "tune-up", 14.0/14.3. When we go back to normal, she reads:
This is off the dash, the readings on the Truecharge are the same.
In our pre-RV days we had a 44' trawler with a battery bank of 8 Trojan 105s.
The PO (an Engineer in the Merchant Marine) had replaced the vent covers with HYDROCAP VENTs .
(Hydrocap | (http://hydrocapcorp.com))
While not completely maintenance free, they came close and took care of the hydrogen problem.
Spent a large percentage of my time as the ca Foretravel stores sales manager in the 80's playing with flooded cell batteries and single stage battery boilersh(chargers). Enough problems that any used coach that came through my store had new batteries put in it regardless of their apparent condition. Less problems that way. Less phone calls. Happier customers. More repeats.
Fast forward 30 years. Gel batteries cost per cycle make them the least expensive to buy.
Multi stsge charging with battery temp controls allow 100% correct use.
Every Foretravel unicoach since late 97 has both of these standard.
If the coach is a "keeper" over the long run the difference in the usability and reliability and the servicing flooded will require will leave a bad taste in most owners mouths that stays in your mind.
Last parts of the new systems is a auto combiner and a solar panel setup of some kind to keep the battery bsnks charge up.
Versus constantly monitoring the batteries a complete system is a time and money saver.
Hundreds of hours play8ng with 1984-1989 Foretravel coaches battery issues caused me to be the first rv store I know of to fit solar panels on every new coach I sold starting in 1986.
Lots of old Foretravel had ground issues as they grounded to the frame)(flickering lights) and draws. Plus the lead acid self discharge rate is much higher.
Yes I know it's more of an initial investment. The coach is THE BATTERY SYSTEM.
12 year plus gel life. 5 years is good on lead acid. Unless you are religious on your battery monitoring and charging and watering you will see a decreasing capacity way short of five years.
I would sell a body part to generate the money to upgrade the batteries to the latest technology myself.
That much difference in use and having to play with batteries constantly. And desulfate them by boiling them. Gag. Nightmares still about 80's Era coaches battery issues I have experienced. Bulb lights and poor grounds, high self discharge rates, single stage chargers, explosive vapors, cable maintenance, battery acid damage to the structure,
My old school two cents. Remember I sold 89's new....
Get four of these 1000Amp-Hour LiFePO4 cells in series. They will replace both the house and engine batteries and save 100s of pounds. You can also remove the diode isolator and boost circuit. The alternator will charge this battery.
PROS:
- No maintenance, no corrosion, no worries
- Long life: 7000 cycles at 70% Depth of Discharge ~ 20 Year lifetime
- Outstanding engine cranking: 20,000 cranking amps. WOW!
- Runs coach better: No voltage sag: steady 13.2 Volts until discharged
- Simple: No computers or BMS required
- Good for solar: Does not have to charge to 100% to maximize service life
- Good power density: 12 KWH for 280 Pounds
- Low cost in the long run
CONS
- High initial price: About $4000 for four batteries, including the 30% discount for federal solar tax credit
- Should be climate controlled: 40F to 90F
- Maintainability. Not as well understood by commercial technicians (except AM Solar and the like)
However, there is a wealth of knowledge on the internet.
For specs, see: LYP1000AHC (http://www.everspring.net/product-battery-LYP1000AHC.htm)
I built that same system for my 1998 Newell in 2013. It was an awesome system with 800 useable amp hours. But it did require a BMS since it is still LiFePO4 (lithium iron phosphate) chemistry and is susceptible to over charging and over discharging which will damage them. In a nutshell I replaced 6 8d batteries with these 4 cells, saved lots of room and over 600# weight. It made a very clean system. I sold them to a good friend in 2015 and he is still using them in his Newell. His last check and they were still balanced within .005 volts! Another note about these is that they will accept as many charging amps as you can pump into them. So while the engine alternator will charge them if you don't have a way to throttle the output on the alternator you can literally destroy your alternator or at the least it will eat belts like candy.
Would I do it again? Absolutely! It was a fun project and if the cells were readily available again I would do it. But there is quite a bit to understand about these. They are not plug-n-play. Here is the link to my install: Lithium battery install (http://newellgurus.com/showthread.php?tid=1149&highlight=lifepo4)
Tim, I really want the Chevy volt battery at 12v... Will need a bms. I could make 1 correct? or buy 1 that does 12v (converted from the oem).
Found a guy who will convert a Ford Cmax battery for me to 12v 400ah but needs a bms(he has a multi cell charger) he can sell me but not sure how to tie it all together.. Any ideas? are you still in Death Valley?
I buy 6 volt golf cart batteries at Sam's Club (https://www.samsclub.com/sams/golf-cart-batteries/3990117.cp) and bought a Pro-Fill battery watering kit at Jan Watercraft Products ( Battery Watering Systems, Marine Dock Products, Solar Dock Lights (http://www.janwp.com)).
My batteries and the fill kit are both 3.5 years old and I am very happy with them.
I am now in Durango, CO. Yes, you need a computerized BMS for anything more than four cells in series, IMHO.
I will never go back to wet cell batteries, due to the maintenance issues. When I had the Safari with Trojan batteries, I used the Pro-fill watering system which not only made the job of keeping proper levels easy, but possible (nearly impossible to see into the cells on the inside batteries. You can get them at Camping World: Pro-Fill RV Edition Dual 6-Volt Battery Watering System - Flow-Rite Controls... (http://www.campingworld.com/pro-fill-rv-edition-dual-6-volt-battery-watering-system?utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=bingshopping&affiliateid=5571)
Can A bms be made for the Volt battery at 12v? or the Ford Cmax battery? Im pretty sure it can.. just need something to tell it what to do and how?
A BMS is a good insurance policy for any voltage battery. There was/is a fellow on eBay selling Volt batteries and BMSs, for a price.
That said, humans make good BMSs if they monitor the cell voltages manually.
I have talked to him but he wants $300 for the bms in 12v
This guy does not have time for all that... I need it VERRRRRRY simple lol .. if not I might neglect lol
Worth it. FYI: I just saw a video from Mortons on the Move about using a 5 KWH Tesla battery at:
Overview of the Tesla Lithium Battery Module We are Installing in our RV -... (https://youtu.be/g_cC0NKvCDY)
Here was my reply:
Mortons on the Move Thanks for your video and reply. From one electrical engineer to another, I encourage you to do a service for all the RVers out there and perform a worse-cast power usage analysis. This would include:
1. Constantly running 24 Volt to 12 Volt converter and/or inverter with it's related losses
2. 30% loss of battery capacity after a certain amount of time: 3-8 years.
3. Running the battery DOD (Depth of Discharge) between 20 and 80 to maximize longevity
4. Boondocking under trees
5. Freezing temperatures and running battery and other heaters, like water pipe and waste water tank heaters.
Keeping the pipes from freezing can use a lot of electricity.
6. Cloudy skies
7. Using high-powered appliances after dark.
8. Running a residential fridge.
9. Under-powered or dirty solar array. Use MPPT charger output power, not input power. I recommend 1200 watts minimum of input power. 1900 watts of input is preferable because there is alway loss due to sun angle, dirty panels and solar charger losses.
I have a 9.2KWH 48Volt pack with 1.9KW solar and the battery has gone flat on several occasions. I recommend that modern RV batteries have about 20KWH based on my real-world experience of one year with our system. This involved driving the rig at 55MPH at 10 degrees F and boondocking at Mammoth Cave, Big Bend and Death Valley National Parks.
That said, RVers can certainly live with 5KWH by cutting down on the power consumption, especially when the above worst-case conditions occur. This would require a compromise, which many power-hungry Americans will not be comfortable with. If an RVer "cooks on it" after dark, which to me means using a large electric appliance like an 1500 Watt electric stove or convection oven, it can take a dramatic toll on the batteries. My LiFePO4 batteries used to throw error codes in the Orion BMS because the cell voltage would drop to 2.9 Volts during heavy discharge. I resolved this by lowering the "weak cell" threshold to 2.3 Volts to account for heavy loads. So now we try to use our 1500 Watt convection oven when the sun is shining.
Cool video! Thanks for the link. I will watch the rest of the series, just for general interest. Not a conversion I would attempt...too complicated.
If you used two of the Tesla batteries and wanted to "display" them, you could make a coffee table top out of them! Great conversation piece!