On page 62 of this months' Motorhome magazine, in the " Hot Line" section, there is an article about a guy who had his coach towed to the Cummins dealership in Ventura, California, for a fuel related problem. The article goes on to say that he was quoted $7,646.26 to have his fuel pump replaced !!!!!!! It goes on to tell that the final bill was $11,969.25 !!!!!!!?????
What a nightmare. My biggest concern, when we bought or 2001 a year and a half ago, was the " what if we breakdown..." scenario.
With no knowledge of diesel costs of repair, and knowing we are prime meat for dishonest folks out there, I wanted to ask you all what you do when you get caught with your panties down?? I find it hard to think you can tell Cummins to push out a vehicle that won't start, and, THEN what?? Have it towed ( still haven't figured out how to tow from the front) somewhere else?? Just " suck it up " and pay whatever the repair shop demands??
I think others might be interested in what your experiences have been with this issue.
Comments??
Best advice: Don't get in a big rush/don't get pushed into making an uneducated decision.
Even before a tech touches it, do an internet/ForeForum search for your symptoms. May find a quick answer-- one as or more likely to solve the issue than a tech who is not familiar with your coach.
And, same thing AFTER the diagnosis.
second best advice - relax and do your maintenance Glenn. EXPENSIVE Problems with properly operated and maintained coaches are VERY rare. Most issues are self inflicted out of mis use or neglect.
Tim Fiedler
Sure Start Soft Start (http://www.gen-pro.biz) - home of SureStart soft starters TCER Direct (http://www.tcerdirect.com) - home of Generac Approved Aluminum and Copper TCER Composite cable generator-gas-prod (http://www.generatorgasproducts.com) - home of X-Riser Gas Risers for PE installation Call me at 630 240-9139
Gen-Pro
That's why it's important to search the forum, look into maintenance history for the exact model coach and engine before you purchase. Some Cummins owners retro fitted the super reliable mechanical Bosch P pump to their engines to avoid just what you are writing about. So, you have to research what injection system (CUPS ?) and if it's been upgraded with more reliable later CUPS components, etc before you purchase. No one wants to be at the mercy of a dealer with a dead coach.
I've never like any rotary injection pump, whether on a VW, Perkins, Ford or Cummins. The Bosch inline pumps will outlast the engine several times. If you are a DIYer, you can make a cheap swap. The dealer swap is not so cheap. Some states that require diesel smog may not like the conversion. The big trade off is mechanical diesels usually go forever with minimum problems.
Here is a quote from a CAPS user: A "P"-pump is a slang term for a mechanically governed inline fuel injection pump, manufactured by Robert Bosch GmbH and having "P" designation in the part number. Known for their reliability and durability, they all share the same basic internal components, external appearance, and are commonly modified for use in high performance applications.
From the factory, this engine had a CAPS computer controlled hi-pressure rotary injection pump almost as famous for its un-reliability.
Here is a YouTube video for how to do it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWDWPrLClGk
Pierce
Sign up for Coach-Net and Cummins Power Club. Both will save agony and cost when you need it. Be very much aware of your coach. Do the maint as scheduled. Look for leaks, drips, anything out of the ordinary. Things will happen unexpectedly. Stay calm, figure it out, do what needs to be done and move on. Having an unexpected repairs fund set aside will take some of the bite out of it. Your 2001 is the same age as mine. Radiator, air bags, fuel lines, tires, a slide seal and batteries are the big ticket items you need to budget for. At about 120K miles valve adjustments too.
The more you know the less likely someone is going to try to do more than needs to be done. Get specific written estimates and make them explain everything that is being done and why. Owning a motorhome is a never ending learning process.
Glenn has a good question.
Your rig quits and you get towed somewhere.
You're not pleased with the diagnosis or the price to repair.
Do you get towed somewhere else? And if so, where?
How much for a secondary tow within a reasonable distance?
I had a fuel leak of sorts on the engine intake side. Cummins charged me about $750.00 to put on a new lift pump. When I got home I checked to see if it was leaking and there was fuel spraying everywhere from a broken CAPS line.
I returned to Cummins and they told me they'd fix it for free, so I threw them a bone and asked them to go ahead and R&R one of the belt tensioners (I provided) as we were leaving town the next morning and it would save me the trouble. I thought they might charge me for 1/2 hour of labor, but when I returned later they gave me a bill for $250.00. I went off on them, stormed out and told my wife they can keep the #@%$!* thing for all I care.
About 15 minutes of cooling off and I was back inside with my checkbook apologizing for my profanity. The service staff all had a chuckle and the manager said he'd seen worse behavior and not to worry.
Any time you're near one of those service places...............plan on relaxing your checkbook.
Bretts comments are spot on, keep calm, and like my pappy would always say don't load your mouth with your ---.
Glynn, like others have said learn all you can about your coach and everything in it. Take the time to read all the manuals. Check things regularly under the coach and engine compartment with a good flash light, mine gets a good look 👀 once a week and before we move during warm up. That way if you find a problem you can deal with it on your terms. Problems are going to happen, but if you know about them ahead of time you are less likely to get caught. If you worry about what's going to happen next that doesn't make for much fun.. the best you can do is try to stay ahead of it, and when it hits the fan just consider it the cost of doing business.
Let me go back and suggest THE most important thing-- to the Preventive Maintenance so your chances of a breakdown are vastly reduced.
We have had a total of ONE breakdown in 19 years and a quarter million miles in diesel pushers-- the hydraulic motor for the fan died a sudden death as we pulled into Ft Davis SP. It was winter, so by keeping a close eye on engine temperature, were able to drive down to Alpine where we parked next to the NAPA as I had them make all new hoses when I replaced the hydraulic motor (overnighted from Foretravel). Total cost of all parts was probably 1/4 of what it would have cost just to have coach towed from Ft Davis to anywhere that could work in it.
Stay calm is a hard thing when you break down.
Monday I went along with a friend that was taking his year old Entregra Anthem to Fort Worth to get a slider motor replaced under warranty. We left late but figured we would be there before dark. Somewhere out on Hwy 6, about 99 miles from our destination the coach decided to start flashing dash lights and buzzers going off. The display showed "Check Engine Now". While he was trying to find a spot to pull over I had gotten up and was scanning his gauges to see if I could see a problem. Everything looked good. We went back to the engine compartment and everything looked good, oil and water levels were good. Since it was around 7 pm we figured just about everything was closed. While he was going thru his phone trying to call dealer, salesman and anyone else he could think of, I was doing google searches. I found one and started asking questions as to exactly what lights were lite and what color they were since the thread was telling about what the different colors meant. That thread also said to pull the error codes. I started trying to figure out how to do that by doing google searches. The friend did find a number to Spartan's 24 hr service line and he called. The tech answered the phone on the first ring, showed us how to pull the codes and we give them too him. He said he would look up and call us back. While I was trying to search for what the error codes were, the tech called back, told us that all 3 of them dealt with the DEF tank head, and it was OK for us to continue the 99 miles to the dealer.
Even though it was not my coach I was having a hard time trying to stay calm when I did not see any problem after checking the motor as to why the warning bells and lights.
But, sounds like you did EXACTLY THAT-- stayed calm and did the diagnostics.
With all do respect, the word here is "California" Not slamming anyone who lives there, I lived there 42 years. That's why I don't live there now.
Last coach was a gasser. Those that know me, know I over service everything. I asked my mechanic here about spark plugs (V-10 ford) . He said 70K, I wouldn't worry. I have also heard of them breaking off coming out, as a service adviser at a RV place. My thought was, if it ain't broke, don't fix it!
So we get to Cali, and the coach starts missing bad. Fortunately I have Facebook friends in Calif. I get refereed to a shop.
We go in at 8 am. We take the dogie with us, but locked the 2 cats in the bedroom.
Hour later they call me, it's $2200.00 for 10 spark plugs and coil packs. I call home, realize I am being charged about $1500.00 too much if I did it myself. But my past experience say's, what if a plug breaks off in the head?
My wife say's she corn holed some extra cash, not to worry about it.I tell them go for it, they say 4 hours.I tell them to call me as soon as it's done because of the cats.I know they are freaking out. 2 hours later I drive by, it's sitting there, well it''s done. I know what they did, milked the flat rate book.
I pay them, take off. Get to Yuma, and notice they smashed the left rear corner of the body. I warned them it had big over hang, I know right where they did it, going out the drive, because it's steep. My bad, because I should have done a walk with them around the coach before I left it. I know better.
I hold my breath every time I go through Cali. The cost of living, and the cost to be in business there, along with all the laws and rules is crazy money. I know, I was in business there before I moved to Idaho.
Thanks For letting me rant.
I fixed the body damage myself when I got home.
I have said this on here before....."If you have a RV, you have a problem, you just don't know what it is yet"!
Chris
Wow!! Thanks everyone. HOWEVER.........
We seemed to miss the gist of this post. It was originally a question of what we should do if we found ourselves " bent over" at , even a reputable?? company like Cummins, when we get an estimate for a repair that seems way out of line. It seems that the answer is stay calm, do your preventive maintenance, and get on the forum or web ( if you have wifi ).......
Roger......I do have both Coach net and Cummins Power club, and I come from the school of " preventive Maintenance "
No one responded to " ... how to tow from the front.....". Guess I'll do a forum search.
The post wasn't about fuel pumps, BUT, now that I have the response.....how do I know what previous owners did to pump upgrades ?? and should I PROACTIVELY switch to the Bosch??
We know we have to budget for the unexpected. The issue is ......what do we do when we are being ripped off?
Thanks, everyone. It's a new world for us. We LOVE our " Yacht" and just want to keep her running as best we can.
They use a wheel lift to tow from the front. Search towing a Foretravel I have seen many posts on this including axle removal etc.
Big rig tow truck, long stinger reaches under and lifts by front axle. Have to pull the axles (on the drive axle) and/or drive shaft - big rig tow truck driver knows how.
See: Towing With Both Axles (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=31213.msg274074#msg274074)
Stay with the pump you have,I have the Bosch pump and I use Diesel Klean fuel additive,one of the things it does is lubricate the fuel
pump.I know there are pros and cons out there about using additives but my thinking is the diesel fuel of today is not the same as
from 20 years ago so if an additive is going to prolong my engine I'll use it.
On the subject of the price quoted for a specific job vs the actual price seems to me they would have to honor the price qoute.
.
If you face a larger than expected bill that seems out of line then ask to speak to the person in charge of the shop and ask if they can provide a discount. There is nothing wrong with asking.
Chris
Identify all of the work to be done and get an estimate on the cost. When completed, go over every thing and question every thing that is not per the estimate. Have them call you if some thing un-expected comes up so that you can approve it. Have a great day ---- Fritz
Have not heard of many problems with the fuel pump on the ism 10.8 liter engines which is probably what you have. Some of the 8.3 liter engines with "caps" pumps did have problems.
If you need to get towed Coach-Net will do their best to find a lowboy trailer. Otherwise towing from the front means pulling the drive axles and hooking up air from the tow truck to inflate the air bags. (Never had either done)
Your ISM11 and big Allison are pretty rugged. Take good care of them and they will do fine by you. But then there is the rest of the stuff. We had a $16 rubber coolant connector start to leak. We found it soon enough, fixed it in place in the campground. No planning for that but the other two connectors of the same type are getting replaced.
Have used coach net towing twice, once in a Foretravel, [Rudy helped me with this one] and once in the Newell. Coach Net said that their policy is tow with a tow truck from front axle only, unless that is not possible, in which case they would "evaluate" lowbed towing. They got to the Foretravel in about 3 hours, Newell was next day. They did run an airline and pulled both half shafts. I followed the Newell in my toad, he ran well over 70 mph with 51000 lbs on the hook.
Best to keep your coach in the best shape you can.