This post is directed at anyone looking to buy a Foretravel and is interested in handling comparison among models. Just got back from the northwest. This trip was about 4,500 miles so now we've got about 16,000 miles on our 34' 270, enough seat time to compare with other rigs we have had (99 36' 320, 95 40' 300 and a 93 36' 225). Unexpectedly, the 34' is the best handling of all, pretty much one hand on the wheel on freeways and nice two lane blacktops. Pretty surprising to me. Also, when we got this one I was prepared (sorta) for a real hit in performance with the 8.3 vs. the M11s but I gotta say, we haven't given up much. The 34' only weighs 26K and we're pulling the same weight (3.4K) and the 8.3 does really well. The gearing is really good. I like to play with shifting but the Allison is only about 50 revs behind where I would shift. On a long 6% grade I believe we are giving up 5 to 8mph by the time we hit the summit so I figure that ain't bad. The M11s would pull it in 5th and the 8.3 drops to 4th. Really acceptable. No problem with heating either up or down. Anyhow, that's my two cents.
jor
Can only compare 40 ft tag and non tag to 34 footer, but agree with Jor, was expecting 34 ft to be a little squirrelly, but it tracked strait and true. It is a little more sensitive to passing semi's but not much. The ability to park in many more places, and ease of handling in the city, far overcomes the little bit you lose in storage.
Amen! I love parkin' this thing in those tight Oregon and Washington parks.
jor
With proper alignment, decent tires and no worn suspension components, all coaches should go down the road without wandering. Hey, our RAV4 has an ultra short wheelbase and goes straight as an arrow.
The big difference is the campgrounds that have tight turns and short spaces where the shorter length makes life easier. We could easily go shorter than our 36 footer.
Pierce
Being full timers, I don't believe we could go shorter (we almost bought JORs 40 footer!). That being said, with our 31' Airstream, we could get in/out of anywhere, drive through heavy traffic, no problem. So, it's "tit for tat", you can't have it both ways and have to decide what your needs are. ^.^d
This post obviously warms my heart. We've had our 34', Jim's previous coach, since August of last year. For 10 days now we've been at the start of our inaugural 10,000 mile, 6 month journey to the west coast and back.
Prior to departure we had about 2500 miles bringing the coach to FL from NAC and traveling around Florida without a toad. A recent trip to Cummins to check out the engine prior to our trip elicited a "wow" from the mechanic who test drive the coach and said he couldn't believe the acceleration and pulling power.
We're now fully loaded and towing our 4 door Jeep Wrangler. Yes, there's a difference but not much and we'll update our thoughts after some real mountain driving.
After working for 40+ years I'm up for going a bit slower at the top of the hill instead of trying to always be first.
Best of all we still have empty space in our 34' so the extra storage at least at this point hasn't been an issue. Not sure after today 😀.
I see the merits of a realm or IH 45 along with a sprinter chassis super B.
For now we're profoundly grateful for the 40' in the garage!
Bet a 34' would be downright awesome in these parks around here.
We agree with John, but do have 2 more feet. C8.3 is just fine and we have successfully lived full time in our 36' Foretravel for over 17 years, and we would not have it any other way. And we pull a 5,700 lb Jeep Grand up western states mountains without any issues, including not overheating, but we do not keep up with our M11 friends.
Interesting. As I come from having owned a Kenworth W900L. My 36 footer doesn't seem to big and I can park up in some pretty tight spots. I.E. Lots of experience backing big rigs.
The DW and I stopped at a small campground near Trout lake Wa. In our car to "have a look" for future camping possibilities. I talked to the host about being 36 and dealing with the ever popular 35 foot limit of most back country campgrounds. He said that most hosts won't sweat that extra foot. Provided the coach pilot has a bit of skill behind the wheel.
Went from a 45' Newell to my present 36' and love it. Not as much stress in campgrounds and drives very well on the highway. I pull either a 2017 Dodge pick-up or a Jeep. Can't tell much difference even with the Dodge weighting 1400 pounds more. But when I go to CO. I do pull the jeep because I really like doing the off roads trails.
Having had a bunch of Airstreams, from a 22' to a 34' w/slide, 2-40' MoHo's (Foretravel & Country Coach), our 36' is by far the best handling and easiest to maneuver. I have been amazed at the spots we've been able to park in at state parks.
We're currently in Alto, NM and did quite a bit of climbing towing the jeep. On several climbs, I was in 4th & 5th gear never slowing to less than 50mph. Kept that going down, also. Since this has been out first mountain driving with this coach, I was concerned about engine & transmission temps. Engine (M11), never got above 190 staying mostly at 180, transmission (with the retarder going downhill), stayed at 175...
We full-time and storage was a concern initially. It really is a matter of determining what you really need and as such, we don't want for additional space/storage... of course, the main slide helps... Every time we return to the coach from a day out, it brings a smile to me knowing we're home. I just love this coach!
BTW, that green ramp for our old dawg was the best $99 ever spent at Camping world!
Hi Guys,
I too have owned many RVs, 13 Airstreams to be exact. 3 of which were MHs. I now have a 2003 36' Foretravel & could not be happier. Except, with only 22,000 miles when I found it in Texas, the last 17 months have been a constant gasket repair problem. Many have dried out; steering box, slide system, A/C, etc. But, we love it so far.
perhaps you can help. My power cord reel stopped working where it no longer retracts. Any thoughts??
Come join the 4 Corner Chapter in Colorado Springs in Sept. I will be leading a fun tour. See the MotorCader.
Enjoy your trip,
Lou De Carolis from Denver # 17929
When we see a 35' campground limit, our 36' coach immediately becomes 35' to others. Just like when we see an age limit, our coach becomes 10 years younger.
Most campgrounds have some extra room at the back of the pad. Some room for overhang. Not so in most Oregon State Parks. When they say 40' it really is 40' from the road to the trees at the back end of the pad. Sometimes less, trees grow quickly there. 🌲🌲
In most of the National Parks where you can make reservation they want to know total length from front of the coach to end of the tow vehicle. They can refuse entry if you understate length. Many of the sites are those side of the road drive throughs.
But like B&C we will often look for 35' sites when thw choice is 35' or 40'. Usually a lot more to choose from.
When I see an age limit I usually get 10 years younger too.
Wish I had one of each.. Like something about all of them.
I like our 34ft 1997 U270. Relatively maneuverable yet big enough to provide personal space for long-term travel.
I wonder if Foretravel could / would ever build a 28 ft rig?
If so, is would NOT be a diesel pusher. Actually it SHOULD NOT be a diesel pusher.
WB/OL (Wheel Base/Overall Length) is a pretty critical dimension for coach ride and even more important for coach handling.
Front overhang is pretty well dictated by steering geometry.
Rear overhang is pretty well dictated by length of drive shift (even the shortest have to account for suspension travel), length of transmission and length of engine. Then you have the reservoirs for coolant, hydraulic fluid, etc that have to go somewhere.
So, net net is that virtually all the shortening of a coach is out of the WHEELBASE.
It would be VERY difficult to design a good handling/good riding 28' DP. As I always told my mother, "Physics even applies to rich people".
I have to disagree here. Short rear engine RVs work great from tiny rear engine Fiat campers, VW Westfalia Vanagons all the way to the 28 foot Tiffin Allegro Breeze. The Breeze makes great use of 28 feet and with a slide, a great option for those looking for a coach that gets good fuel economy, fits almost any campground, and has an excellent turning radius. How about the 7 (22 feet) meter rear engine Hino diesel camper? Photo below. The Mercedes V6 (Sprinter) diesel into a transaxle (no driveshaft) could make another excellent small pusher.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gdu8FVmMn0s
Might want to query owners of the 28' Breeze. They sure show up to the Suspension Seminars at the FMCA Conventions asking for what they can do to make them track/handle better.
Would be very interested in seeing a Hino DP.
Extremely familiar with VW campers-- had them from a 1958 model up through the Vanagon series on several continents. Great space utilization, but more what Dianne would call "camping" than motorhoming.
Newmar also attempted to market one-- think the name was New Aire in the early 2000's. About 28' DP if I recall.
Have you ever been to the VW van get together at Lake Havasu , Arizona? They have a drag race: the slowest one wins! ^.^d
No, but my 1958 would surely be in the running (OK crawling). Like many of their early models they came with cruise control-- a brick for the throttle. Always happy for a downgrade so we could break 60 MPH.
Lots of new rear engine buses being made today that are 30 feet or less. Temsa, a Turkish company makes a nice rear engined 30 footer with a quality Cummins and Allison power package and stainless steel integral monococque design. It's being sold now in the U.S. See the TS-30 their website at: TS 30 – CH Bus Sales – TEMSA Coaches (https://chbussales.com/new-coaches/ts-30/)
We just got back from three weeks in Turkey and Egypt where we rode in several very nice short rear engined buses. Not sure if they were Temsa but were very comfortable.
Images for lots of short rear engined motorhomes: hino liesse motorhome conversion - Google Search (https://www.google.com/search?q=hino+liesse+motorhome+conversion&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=eR-KDkKRLHSc9M%253A%252CDMoIh_3OKAHQgM%252C_&usg=__kP3CW1sG2ka6J3ldcRb6X1i7BU0%3D&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjbvPPnzZ7bAhVLuFMKHURZDlAQ9QEIOjAB#imgrc=eR-KDkKRLHSc9M:)
Using Alibaba.com and entering 7 or 8 meter buses, you can quickly see quite a few shorter rear engine designs in the ads. See at: 8 Meter Bus-8 Meter Bus Manufacturers, Suppliers and Exporters on Alibaba.com... (https://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?fsb=y&IndexArea=product_en&CatId=&SearchText=8+meter+bus&viewtype=)
Rear engined buses or motorhomes can be made in any length with excellent handling but with the power package taking a disproportionate amount of the total cost as the coach becomes shorter, the market is limited. The lower number seats also mean less total income plus the insurance is also greater per seat. The translation for a motorhome means the shorter coach customer is going to pay a premium for the shorter length. Some manufactures may trade cheaper materials and a lower quality power package in an attempt to woo customers.
While a shorter but still tall coach may handle well, it can also be more susceptible to crosswinds, the only disadvantage I can see here. So, let's kill the "can't build a short rear engine coach that will handle well" myth.
Pierce
A month in New Zealand was a real eye opener, we're really getting the short end of the stick here in the US for vehicle choices. Many, many diesel powered vehicles of all makes including midsize rear engined units begging for RV conversion. Regarding the overhang length, maybe it's time to bring back the Detroit Sidewinder! Nyaah....owned one and it was, indeed a sidewinder. Bit me proper it did.
Pierce,
The Temsa looks like quite a well though out bus. No question, other continents are well ahead of us in bus/public transportation!
Suspect it would be too expensive to be converted to a motorhome. Their website shows a 2013 30' with 100,000 miles on it for $155,000.
Also, with a WB/OL of under 49%, probably not ideally suited for long distance/highway handling.
Where were you in Turkey (our of our favorite countries) and Egypt (have only spent time in Cairo and down as far as Luxor)?
Chuck,
GM had a stroke of genius in their sidewinder design for their highway coaches. A full monocoque chassis, the engine crosswise at the very back of the coach with the engine and transmission available for easy access with opening rear and sides. You could remove the engine in about an hour and about the same for the transmission. The 8V-71 didn't have any belts to fail. The alternator was a direct drive 300 amp brushless design cooled by the engine oil. The radiator fan was operated by a PTO fan off the engine. The front bumper even folded down to hold the spare tire. No chassis flexing here with the monocoque design so you could go offroad without any creaking or worries about shifting (or breaking) glass. It even had airbags all around. No long overhang behind the rear tires with the sidewinder. Forgot about the nifty compartment doors that opened up, not out. I loved that coach.
The only shortcoming was the crashbox Spicer 4 speed. No tachometer in the earlier versions so smooth shifting was a real art. No compound low so it was limited for steep inclines. Motorhome conversions have seen lots of Allisons and 6V-92TAs installed.
Agree that you have to think a little outside the box to make maximum use of the length. Wish we did more of that here.
Pierce
Had the 40 ft model with an allison v-730, bus conversion, over 400 cf in bay storage. Great ride, but long wheelbase [43 inches longer than a 40 ft Foretravel] so needed a little extra attention on corners.
GM Buffalo bus - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Buffalo_bus)
Brett,
Twice in Istanbul on the trip. Not nearly long enough. It's changed so much since the 1970's when I did a long road trip from Germany. Much wealthier now with a big Euro influence mixed with the Bridge to Asia charm. Planning a return to Turkey and Greece next year.
17 days in Egypt. Traveled independently with only a couple of hotels pre-booked. Cairo for 4 days, day train to Luxor. Bargained for a Nile cruise after arriving in Luxor. Ended up costing $200 pp for 4 nights/5 days full board on a really deluxe ship from Luxor to Aswan. Then Aswan to Abu Simbel (ten miles from the border with the Sudan), sleeper train back to Cairo and another train to Alexandria on the Med. Can't imagine a friendlier country or people anywhere. With the Egyptian Pound devalued, it's amazingly inexpensive now. For example, a twenty minute taxi with Uber cost $1 U.S.
I always vehicle watch. Mercedes owns the big bus market, Toyota the mid-size bus and van market with Suzuki strong in the mini-mini van scene. Some Chevy small trucks with the flat bed. No Fords anywhere. China is making inroads with quite a few cars and SUVs. Millions of Tuk-Tuks from India. Even on the highway. They cost about $1K new.
Will have a YouTube travelogue in a few months for those interested.
For those worried about safety, see the Nationmaster's comparison at: Egypt vs United States Crime Stats Compared (http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Egypt/United-States/Crime)
Pierce
Ya, did one hitchiking trip completely across Turkey before the bridge (1973).
Then another with a rent car from Izmir (ferry from Greece) with 10 days "free form" and returned car/flew home from Istanbul.
Yes, the first trip was "pre-marriage".
Jim,
Yes, the 40 footers were long. Lots of them from Hawaii for sale in the past. Since they didn't travel interstate, they didn't need the tag axle. Ours was a 35 footer. Armstrong power steering. I remember making a tight turn coming out of an alley in Juarez, MX where I had to back and turn 16 times to make it. Arms have never been the same since. :D I filled the compartments and interior with furniture and took it to Santa Fe, NM.
Pierce
Great forum!!! Too bad we can't all video chat so we could all argue, tell stories, share memories and laugh. What a nice group of people!
Pierce
We are presently on a British Isles cruise. In Scotland, Ireland and Wales, were rode tour buses 37' and 39' in length. These could be the basis for wonderful motor coaches.
Tom if you go by Toward Scotland wave at my clans burnt out castle :-)
Do not forget the 38, no. Seems good option, especially if you could talk Bill Blackmon out of his now. Maybe you could just tell the park it a 36 if length an issue? :))
Friend Randall Cox had a 34. It was like a dragster, well sort of. Really would go. In time they got a 40 ft but they liked the 34 quite lot.
My 40' is going to a 36' space in a campground that I have been going to for 2 years now. I pull ahead until the tires are about to fall off the pad. From the rear it looks the same depth as all the other units.
We lived in Izmir Turkey for 2 years with our two kids from 1994 - 1996. Toured many areas of Turkey. I was active duty, but we were civilian clothes only with no fenced in base in the city of Izmir.
Also did Germany, Philippines, Saudi. Toured many areas. Car camped England, Scotland, Whales, etc. Great times. Got the travel bug, thus full time RVing now.
Ephesus is probably THE highlight of the many, many overseas trips we have made. On that trip spent New Years Eve at a celebration in Bergama. Had a wonderful time-- we were the only foreigners at the whole celebration. Were treated as family.
So, what is the preferred length of Foretravel in Turkey - 34, 36 or 40 feet?? LOL
Couldn't resist. ;D
Regarding the short DPs: My previous experience has been with Safari. Though I had a 34', we have friends with a 30', driven by a 3126 CAT. It is a little squirrely on the freeway and requires focus to keep it on track, resulting in more fatigue. The short wheelbase and too much weight (relative) in the back create this issue, which is well known among Safari owners. Some have added weights to the front or even a spare wheel hanging off the nose. FTs are much more balanced with the generator up front, and of course the heavier suspension and longer length.
We feel left out of this conversation. 😀