I have not been to Nac, but need to head that way for bulkhead repairs, fiberglass work etc. I know the usual players, are there any new guys in town that may need some work. Nothing wrong with the big 3, just looking for options before leaving a truck load of cash in town.
Howdy Bruce,
I have no direct knowledge of these guys, but have "heard" some good things. Might be worth a call to check them out. Adkison Body Repair, Car repair Nacogdoches, TX; Motorhome Repair (https://www.adkisonbodyrepair.com/)
Good Luck, Dave A
Thanks Dave, I'll give them a call.
Adkison was high on an estimate I got for some fiberglass repair. Between them, FOT, and extreme, extreme was the cheapest by a long shot and they did a great job!!
Bruce, I would go with those with previous experience on this one. There is a bit more to it than just replacing fastners. James at Xtreme would be my choice. He did my coach when he owned it.
Keith
Totally agree with this. I spent a number of years in high-end structural engineering and James is the only one of the 3/4 key players that
really seems to understand what's going on and the needed fix.
The only issue might be how he is doing health-wise today. When I was last up that way in Feb he was still at home recuperating from some unknown health issues.
MOT did our basement repair - ^.^d
Extreme and FOT have done paint and fiberglass work for us - ^.^d
All 3 do a great job. ;D
.....just had my bulkhead done at FOT, was slightly bent/tweaked in some way....this was later verified by Paul Yasbeck, (I'd forgotten) who'd said when I bought the coach that it needed fixing....
All these guys get it, I believe. That is an advantage for those who might need such a service. The name of the Weld Shop MOT uses for fab escapes me. This week, Berndt mentioned his shop has a dozen or so Bulkhead Repair jobs under the belt. (He repaired both hydraulic pumps for our rig last week. I'd use his service again.)
I used MOT to repair my Bay Issue last year before I knew of others. (Good job, Steven @ MOT!) I like these shops. They don't seem to be Pirates. YMMV
I had both front and rear bulkheads repaired at MOT. I found the pricing very reasonable comparatively, and I felt very confident in their knowledge of the necessary work. Keith Risch has become a friend and helps me navigate and oversee things, since I can't be on site all the time due to still working. My coach had previous bulkhead work at Xtreme, on front or back, I'd have to check maintenance log, but needed to be repaired again.
We are scheduled for a maintenance and check up appointment in July and late August we'll be going to see Justin at FOT for some paint and fiberglass repairs.
MOT bulkhead, fiberglass maybe FOT or Xtreme, paint Xtreme but they are booked....should tell you something....into 2019 I have been told. They have also turned down a huge job from a manufacturer of high end coaches.
James is doing really well, been dancing, going to shoot in world shoot, going to WY.....SO very happy for him and Jennifer but follow up tests will continue and I am sure I would be anxious with each one.
I have learned that when people speak of bulkhead issues, repairs, they do not all mean the same thing. Beware of something quoted with a price and no analysis of the problem. imho
Mike,
You are TOTALLY CORRECT. Until the fiberglass is pulled down, no one (unless they have X ray vision) can give you an accurate estimate. If the rear bulkhead (much more common failure than front one) the big questions are:
1. Is there sufficient "meat" to the existing beams that they can be saved?
2. If not, how far forward of the forward wall of the wet bay do we need to go to remove and install new metal.
Yes, some educated guessing can happen-- for example if there is significant "printing" of the beams on the fiberglass from rust jacking (fiberglass pushed down by the rust), the metal is probably bad. If the bolts visible from below that secure the transverse bulkhead (secure bottom structure to the walls that form bay walls) have been pulled through the fiberglass by rust jacking, they are suspect.
Please, neither under nor over blow this issue.
Ignoring it can certainly lead to higher repair costs. Fixes range from replacing a few Rolock bolts with through bolts and sealing the area to entire basement floor replacement (the latter VERY rare).
Brett, If there is no visible bulkhead issues and the Rolocs torque ok. What would be the least invasive way to find out if there is an underlying issue. I believe all is good on my coach but maybe some deeper inspections might be good.
If no visible issued (no "printing" of beams of FG), no separation of the joint, etc, and all bolts torque properly all I would do is seal the area as I have posted for a decade.
Mask off with blue tape above the Rolocks on the angle. Same 3/4 to 1" forward on the FG AND tape off the Rolock bolt heads.
Then use spray automotive undercoating. The reason for this is that the heads of the Rolocks are serrated-- kind of built in lock washers. They "stand off" and could allow water to wick into the bulkhead. Sealing this area eliminates what I would call the #2 cause of bulkhead issue. Yes, water leaks in wet bay are #1.
#2 cause of bulkhead issue?
what is the # 1 cause
Don't drive in the rain. :)) Run the inside water pump every once in a while to check for this:
See the post above yours. Wet bay leaks
I would just add that I suspect almost every one of these older coaches has significant rust in the wet bay notch area where the sewer hose exits. We have had three and all had the same issue. Two of these were strictly southwest dry climate coaches and neither of these two had any visible sign of water issues from above (clean and well kept). The other was not cared for and had obvious water intrusion from above and below. The damage in the dry coaches is probably not structural, just unsettling. It's just a poor design.
jor
Yup, inspected a coach this week where you could stick your finger through the beam around the drop down door. The big issue is that that allows MORE water into the basement structure. And, being only 3' in front of the rear bulkhead, pretty hard to imagine it not being a significant contributor to rear bulkhead issues.
Indeed, keeping that area totally dry is CRITICAL. As I mentioned several years ago, Dianne and I had an agreed on deal on a beautiful 2001 295 in FL, subject to inspection. Drove from Texas to Florida. Due to ******* owner had allowed a long time water leak where the CG water comes into the coach ($.10 gasket). Leaked long enough that there was a stalagmite hanging from it! I crawled under to check the bulkhead. Dianne though I cut myself-- came out with rust all over my shirt. Handed the owner a 4" piece of rust (that was originally the rear-most box beam), got back in the car and drove back to Texas.
This was before we had anyone competent to repair bulkheads (despite long conversations with all the shops in Nacogdoches). Today I would probably offer to buy the coach, subtracting from the offer an "outside figure" for bulkhead/basement repair.
Yes, it does take extra effort to keep the wet bay totally dry, but well worth it.
You know that guy that sawed the boat in half and then taped it together with Flex Tape?
Even though with the repair MOT paid extra attention to the trap door seal.....and I see those fairly often that you can tell are or have leaked into the bulkhead.....I have also put that flex tape all along the seam. (That tiny crack in the caulk seam along the utility drop door area was the only indication to MOT that I had a problem and that led to full discovery. at the time not a common inspection.)
James Stallings tells me there is another way to notice bulkhead problems that get very significant, some coaches get so bad that you can see a variation in the horizontal trim where the trim passes over the bulkhead vertical....slight variation but visible if you look closely.
(Cannot say my added tape is even a good pair of suspenders over the belt so to say, but I like trying that extra step.)
Paul Yasbek rebuilt the rear bulkhead on our coach years ago when Marlene owned it. Gary Omel indicated it was better than new. Not sure what she paid
Brett, what is the wall thickness of the 1 1/2 Square tubing and why not use stainless steel square tubing?
Chris
As I remember, the wall thickness of the tubing is .125". Stainless tubing would be really expensive and harder to weld. I used to buy flat bed loads of steel tubing and it's cheap if you go to a pipe and steel dealer like I posted earlier. Any kind of treatment would be better than what was OEM and with any kind of thought, easy access could be incorporated in the replacement/repair.
Steel comes in 20 foot lengths and all you then need is a HF metal cutting band saw and a wire feed welder along with a few tools. Anyone can learn to operate a wire feed welder in a short amount of time. YouTube is a good place to start. Lots of small items needed too but HF has all of them for little $.
I'm long retired and have moved to Northern California but for my hobby projects, I use these guys in Sacramento. They sell by the truckload or single piece. Friendly and easy to do business with: Metal Fabricators | Sacramento, CA | Del Paso Pipe and Steel (https://www.delpasopipeandsteel.com/)
Pierce
I think the oem wall thickness was 16 or 18 gauge. .048 or .062. When rebuilt they used .125 or 1/8th".
I could be wrong.
The transverse 1 ½" square tubing that caps the basement framing at the bulkhead joints is 11 gage (.125", or ⅛"). Most if not all of the rest of the square tubing on the basement framing is 18 gage or 16 gage. 99' and older used 1 ½" angle iron longitudinally along the outside edges under the trim. 2000 and later (Don't know when or if that changed before Spartan got involved in providing chassis) use square tubing along the outside edges with a different style of black aluminum trim that has squared of edges rather than a rounded profile that the white aluminum trim of the 99' and earlier.
Don
Stainless would be really expensive. I haven't mig welded stainless but with stick welding it really easy, a really smooth rod to weld.
Mig Welding stainless is the same as mild steel. If you don't use stainless filler metal the weld will rust so just change the spool.
If you are doing full frame removal and refab maybe use mild and have it galvanized.
Dave Whitehead is the new shop in Nac. Worked for Foretravel and MOT very experienced! Here is his phone # 936-559-5884. Nac my home service
I really think it all comes down to housekeeping. I look at many photos on the forum that people post when showing off their work and see unbelievable amounts of dirt , untideness and marks that show old leaks etc. This lack of pride in ownership and common sense is asking for issues to happen. This does not mean that a new owner of a coach is responsible for the previous owners tardiness should a festering issue pop up. This is bad luck or maybe negligence on not having a good inspection prior to buying. The previous owners of our coach definitely had some issues but luckily I caught them before any damage was done. Keeping the basement clean both in and out would prevent most of these problems I think. Fix water problems immediately and inspect all bays daily.
JohnH
I would like to make a correction on my post. I was thinking of a titanium project when I wrote about welding stainless to mild steel. Yes, it can be easily done. In my wheel removal post, I show my aircraft accumulator tank with a steel pipe for the extra large air chuck welded on. It welded easily and has a nice looking bead.
Welding stainless to high carbon steel does require some planning.
Pierce
Regarding the use of stainless structural tubing on the bulkhead, I choose to use stainless on the pieces around the pass-through opening when I did a partial floor replacement. The opening gets exposure to water routinely with use. I made the trap door with all stainless as well.
Here's my original post on it: Bulkhead Repair (Partial Floor Replacement) (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=31694.msg280564#msg280564)
Well not to squash the the stainless steel argument, the mild steel installed by FT when my coach was built lasted 20 years. Once repaired it will go longer than I will.