Yesterday I started the generator and ran the air conditioners. Came back after an hour and generator was not running. Found a fault light on the dash. I reset the generator, started it and noticed blower was not running and no power inside on panel. Noticed a spot on gravel under generator over flow. Found expansion tank empty and radiator low. I assumed blower was not starting and it over heated. Today I filled the radiator and expansion tank started the generator, It started and ran for about 30 seconds. I was wondering if I was having a fuel issue. Restarted the generator it ran, I checked the rotation of the blower, engine bogged down like a load was connecting then smoke was coming from the generator compartment and engine shut off. Overcrank light came on. Smells like electrical. Don't know what was smoking. It's getting dark. Tomorrow we will pull generator out and look inside to see if I can see any burnt windings. I will also look inside the control box and look at the regulator. Don't know what's going on. Any help would be appreciated. I have the generator with the Isuzu engine. If you look at the picture the pancake looks new like it was changed by the previous owner. I looked through my manuals and I don't have the manual for my generator. Anyone knows the number for my unit I can download the manual from PowerTech.
Thanks, John M.
Mine quit several times and the problem was the voltage regulator, but when it did so the fan did not run as no volts being produced.
Then it overheated and shut down.
I have a copy of the manual I could send it to you, if that would help. I also have a '99 320 so I assume the same engine . I don't have information on the generating portion.
I called PowerTech and James told me that he thinks the generator is fried. We are trying to find the correct generator for my coach but I don't have my generator model number. Where can I find the number or does someone know the correct number? I tried giving him the number on the pancake in the picture but that didn't work. Help please!
John M
John,
Here's my notes from our 99. Might help.
jor
Generator
Serial Number ITA25DB90899EFT
Model Number: PTS IDL10EFT
Power Technology Southeast, Inc.
Leesburg, Florida 34748
Engine
Isuzuu 3LD1
Family: SSZ1.5U6D2RA
Manufactured: 07/98
1,496 cc
Texaco ELC (pink)
Oil & Filters: February 25, 2012
Bought from Truck & Trailer Services
Oil: PH2808 (LuberFiner)
Mobil Delvac 1300, 15-40
Fuel: FP588F (LuberFiner)
Air: FIL2276 (LuberFiner)
* used Fleetguard spare - AF-435KM)
Jor,
Thanks for the help. That's what I needed. It seems that Marathon Electric supplies PowerTech the pancake for that generator and they no longer deal with Marathon so he would have to order it.
Thanks again. John M
Someone here had a generator for sale? Just the electric part
I'm always cynical when a tech tells me something has to be replaced in its entirety, but your description of the load and smoke sounds like he may be right. If it were bearings, I would expect to hear loud grinding sounds, but it could be the windings "welding" themselves to each other. It would be interesting to dismantle it and see what happened. If you do replace it, don't toss it to the curb. The salvage value on the copper and metal could be significant.
generator windings design - Bing images (https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=rNpXYufx&id=BB74590BB0795D02EDA1F5BAFD9222885DF3E0E1&thid=OIP.rNpXYufxNDV9Jx5x_nB0OAHaGC&mediaurl=http%3a%2f%2fwww.freemagneticenergy.info%2fclipart%2fmotors_generators%2fAC%2520generator.JPG&exph=326&expw=400&q=generator+windings+design&simid=608053262748419479&selectedIndex=0&ajaxhist=0)
Call Foretravel They will have your part number for that generator. I have the the electrical part for an 8 KW Powertech. I believe that you have a 10 KW
John,once you get it diagnosed if the windings are shot could you possibly wait til you get back to Fla and have powertech do the job?We will be in the area around the middle of June,could possibly take a look.
Well it was an interesting day today. I went to the coach, pulled out the generator and opened the control box and found the regulator at the bottom of the box. My generator looks new as you can see from my previous pictures and it is standard procedure that when you change the generator you change the regulator. Whomever replaced the regulator only installed one screw at the corner of the regulator. It seems they could have overtighten the screw and cracked the plastic corner and with the generator rough whip lash starts it broken loose. I feel that overtime the heat sink melted into the the wire in the picture which goes to the top of breaker on line 1. I think that wire goes to the blower, not sure. Any way it finally shorted out and shorting out the heat sink to the box. I started the generator and measured voltage at the top of each breaker and I had 14.7 volts at each breaker. I am feeling lucky and think the pancake is still good. I'm going to order a new regulator and repair the broken wire and take it from there. Crossing my fingers on this job. I will try and order the regulator from Marathon Electric directly or search the internet for the best price.
Well I found a Genuine Basler voltage regulator for $215. Power Tech wanted $354. There were other copycats for a lot less on Ebay but I didn't want to take my chances. Will be here on Friday. Crossing my fingers everything will be fine.
John M.
Basler AVC63-4 Voltage Regulator, Genuine AVR : Generator Parts, Generac,... (https://www.partsfortechs.com/asapcart/basler-avc634-voltage-regulator-p-565.html)
John if it turns out to be a problem with the stator I have a good used 10 kw power tech stator.
I am reminded of those damaging gen when they replaced regulator with some wire to be removed in regulator. Maybe someone can elaborate.
I was one of them.
How not to change voltage regulator in genset (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=32784.msg295578#msg295578)
Here is my regulator current wiring setup. The regulator I am getting is the same exact one, so nothing should change am I correct?
John M
John,re-crimp or put new connectors on those wires,looking at your pictures,is your hour meter and some switches missing?The
hour meter is also missing on the 99 320 Bob just bought.Another thing to check is the rubber mounts,mine were all weak and
Bob's look worn the more worn they are the more vibration.The fronts can probably be changed in place the back would be harder.
John, I had a similar problem several years ago on my coach. Because of the constant vibration and whiplash starts, I decided to move all the delicate items in the control box that is mounted on the generator itself into the forward port side locker, the generator radiator bay. The only components remaining in the box on the generator are the two 120volt circuit breakers. The new location is almost vibration free and has worked well for me.
Richard,
I already have a secondary box in the generator blower bay. Someone before me moved everything except the regulator and breakers. I didn't know if I can move the regulator in their. The regulator has the heat sinks on it and I don't know how hot it gets. The original box on the generator has air flow going into it from the generator. I'm assuming it's to cool the regulator. Did you move your regulator in there.
John
John, I moved the regulator and the two 12volt circuit breakers into that bay. I also noted the heat sink but thought that with the regulator removed from the generator bay, that heat might not be as much a problem. I guess it was just a gamble on my part but it has seemed to work out. I put them in their own metal box at the front outside portion of the bay away from the generator radiator. That was in March of 2010, so far so good.
If regulator heat is a concern when relocating it to the side bay it would be easy to mount a 120v pancake fan on the new box. Add a few vent holes to let the fan air flow out and power it from the 120v
feed to the generator cooling fan.
I called PowerTech this morning before installing the regulator and this time I got Jeff in tech support. We went over the installation of the regulator. I installed the regulator and still nothing on the generator. He felt that the regulator short damaged the generator. He suggested I go to the nearest service center to have it checked out. I have an appointment next week. The service technician feels the shorted regulator could have damaged the stator. He will verify that when he looks at it next week. We will keep you informed.
John M.
Any tech should be able to use a multimeter and determine the conditions of the windings in a few minutes. Good luck. Fingers crossed you don't need a whole new generator end because of that fried regulator!
If a genny replacement will cost you big bucks, perhaps you could install a big solar system instead. I did this in two rigs:
1. Fleetwood Southwind: Installed solar and sold the genny.
2. U270: Installed 1.9KW solar: We only use the genny just to keep it exercised and for backup purposes. Would sell it for parts if it required a lot of repairs.
Benefits include:
- Less maintenance. No more oil, filter and coolant. Save time and money.
- Save diesel fuel. Save money.
- Better for the environment in terms of pollution and noise.
Well I took the coach to the nearest Power Tech Service Center. The generator pancake is fried and needs to be replaced. The cost with parts and labor is going to be $4500. I'm really considering doing what Tim suggested and investing in a decent solar package for the coach. My batteries are very close to being replaced. So if I eliminated the generator I can scrap out the pancake for salvage, I have someone in construction interested in the Isuzu Engine. I don't know what would be a good price for the engine. Then I could probably use the generator compartment to store the new house batteries. I can run solar system on 4 new 8D batteries or switch over to 6 volt batteries. It would be nice to move the batteries over into the generator area. I could free up the current battery compartment for storage or keep the current batteries and add more. I could use the generator blower compartment to house the solar electronics and anything I need inside can be chased through the thermostat pillar behind the driver from the blower compartment. . I can also run the solar panel wires down from the roof through the same thermostat pillar into the blower compartment. These are just thoughts and ideas. I don't know what the cost is and if this is something I can do on my own. I was a aircraft electrician in the Air Force servicing the B-52 Bombers and KC-135 Tankers and I worked as a Tool and Die Maker for various companies. I'm not afraid to jump in and tackle any job. With some guidance I feel I can do the job. I would also look at installer recommendations.
Questions:
1. Can I truly survive without a generator with a great solar installation?
2. Can I use the generator and blower compartments to house the solar system?
3. Should I eliminate or keep the current battery location? It would be nice to have more storage on my 36 footer.
4. Would I need to also upgrade my current inverter or keep it along with my current battery system?
Thoughts, ideas and suggestions are welcome.
Thanks, John M.
"Questions:
1. Can I truly survive without a generator with a great solar installation?
When we travel in hot weather we run the generator and roof airs. I wouldn't give that up myself.
Hey John -
Sorry about your gen. set situation.
All of your questions are valid. I am afraid that you are the only one that can make those decisions. Lot's of research re: 12 volt energy systems -
My .02 - Consider the head replacement as a maintenance item and have it repaired. Then start to move forward with the solar/battery/inverter project. Unless you have already done your due diligence it could take you a while to make those decisions. In my experience - most of my worst decisions were made while I was under duress.
Last I calculated to upgrade my 12V system to even last 4 days between gen. set operations was 5K if I did the install.
Good luck on this one. ^.^d
Personally, I would find a good used complete unit. They are out there.Then sell the engine.Probably break even
We have 700 watts solar, wouldn't want to be without a gen set. Love our 10K Kabota, runs everything.
Just my 2 cents.
How many batteries doe it take to run one AC unit for 6hrs?
Hi John,
The blower/radiator space is not sealed up. You could make it a sealed water tight compartment but the inside wall would need to be removable for access to the steering box. If you add batteries in that space then venting is needed. And getting several big 4/0 cables back into the main bays has to go through the center cable trays.
Making a battery compartment out of the radiator space would need another waterproof and vented space. And a way to get cables in and out.
If driving, solar or landline are the only way to charge batteries you will limit you off grid time. On your 36' you might be able to get five 300 watt panels on the roof. With no crank up antenna or sat dish, maybe six but it is going to be tight with no practical walking room.
If you have the OEM inverter a much more efficient one would be a good choice. If you have a res refrig then a second small inverter is a good choice. If so them you can get rid of the big LP tank. An 11 lb LP tank will power your cooktop for several months. You can get four L16 sized 5 volt batteries (830 amp hrs) and the small lp tank in that space. In the floor space where 2 8Ds are you can get six L16s in there (1245 amp hrs) or a shorter version (1005 amp hrs) in one level.
Lithium batteries are a choice if you are building it all from scratch. Get ones with built in battery management system somthat they can be charge using your vehicle alternator.
Practically speaking, using just solar to charge batteries, running your AC will be very difficult. Maybe possible for short periods but it is a huge load.
I did all of my own work and saved a huge amount of money. Panels, batteries, inverters, cables and wire, solar controllers, integration components, control displays and all of the misc stuff was about $8K. Maybe 2-1/2 to 3 times that to have someone else do it. It took me about four weeks total time, I didn't keep real close track of actual hours. Doing it myself ment I got it done the way I wanted it done.
It is a big choice. There is a lot to do and spend going the way you are thinking. All solar, no generator seems like an unnecessary loss of option.
Roger
Mike has a good point, if you plan to dry camp in the south in the summertime, you will need a lot of battery capacity and a lot of solar, and a way to charge batteries if overcast. If you need ac, and most people will.
Someone here had the pancake available? Not worth it to buy the one posted here?
I will never put all of my eggs in one technology basket. Hybrid inverter and inverter generator could level the high kw peak demands and make a nice efficient flexible system. Flexible is king jmo.
John,
If you are handy with tools you can change the pancake yourself. The cost for a new pancake, regulator and shipping is around $3,000.00 It was shipped from Florida to Los Angeles for that cost to me. I have 1160 watts on the roof now and it is nice to be able to just run the generator for 1 hour a day where I am at in the Sierra's with shade starting at 3:00 pm. from a tree.
I still personally would want the generator even if I didn't have to use it at all, as location and weather could make my solar useless for a given time.
I had an friend that had his generator head rewind by Eurton Electric, 9920 Painter Ave., Whittier, CA 90605 for $850 plus freight, just a thought.
steve
John,
1- not with lead acid in my opinion. It would kill any lead acid, with the exception of firefly carbon foam batteries, to run the ac off them, even with a ton of solar. For that, Lithium would be your choice. A good liFePo4 battery install with solar >$15K. Could be done cheaper with Chinese calb cells.
2- Not with Lithium. The solar MPPT chargers take up little space. But if you do go lithium, they don't like it to hot or to cold. You could use that space for other things.
3- No opinion on that cause it depends on what you decide to do. My current lithium setup, per AM solar is in the space where the washer dryer used to be behind louvered doors. I like that setup. Some don't.
4- Again depends on what you do. But I would vote for a new one if going lithium. The charger must be able to handle it. (assuming a inverter/charger setup.
John, lithium is like one of those things that cost a lot up front but will /could give great value over the long term. You can do something similar with the oasis firefly batteries but they are not cheap either, but will get you much of the lithium performance at less cost. If you can/do go lithium, if you can afford it, go with the Victron energy system. Cost more but very integrated.
What ever way you go, back it up with a Honda inverter generator for those days where you really need a genset. The Honda 2000i and the 2000i companion connected together will get you 3200 watts with 4000 surge for those days when you need it and not much cost considering. If my genset fried itself, probably what I would do.
Something to consider. My condolences to your generator head. Ouch. To bad they can't be repaired... or can they?
Bob
That reminds me, another thing to put on the list.... all the screws from the regulator box are missing from the vibration, and yeah those engine mounts need to be replaced. When my generator starts the entire front shakes. Once it settles down all is good, but for a second there... whoa.
I want to take the time to thank each and everyone of you for your suggestions. After much thought and consideration of all of your suggestions, I have decided to swap out the generator pancake. We use our generator to run our Air Conditioners while driving during those real hot and humid days. While solar is a valuable option, it still has it's limitations.
We will wait till we return to our home in Florida where I can do the work. I am not far from Leesburg and can pick up the pancake at Power Tech and avoid any freight expense and scrap out the old pancake at the salvage yard. While in Florida I can also take care of the generator compartment insulation and clean up the generator roll out tray. At least we can still enjoy our coach on shore power.
Solar is still a consideration and we will utilize the forum for the best installation plan when the time comes. Again, thank you all for your help.
John M.