Foretravel Motorhome Forums => Foretravel Tech Talk => Topic started by: GleamB on June 05, 2018, 04:33:58 pm
Title: Power steering hose
Post by: GleamB on June 05, 2018, 04:33:58 pm
I had a pinhole leak in my cooling system repaired, recently, at Cummins. It occurred where the power steering hose crossed the metal coolant pipe, near the radiator. Andy 2 noticed that the hose rested on this pipe a year ago, and I thought I had them separated, but I guess it wasn't enough. The hose is melted/rubbed/missing material, at the point where it crossed the pipe. WE agreed that it had to be replaced. Cummins tied it up away from the repair, but now I have to replace the hose. The question is....Can I make this repair myself ? How do I drain the fluid and disconnect the hose ? Do I then need to have a hose "custom made" ?? Am I better off finding a shop to do this, as I don't EVER want any steering related problems. I await your input. Thanks !
Title: Re: Power steering hose
Post by: wolfe10 on June 05, 2018, 05:03:30 pm
You can probably drain it by just removing the hose. Couple of gallons. I say probably, because we don't know if the hose is directly connected to the reservoir or if it would slowly drain because it is on the pressure side of the system.
If removing the hose does not drain it, buy 6' or cheap, clear plastic hose. Remove the lid to the hydraulic reservoir (two bolts/banjo fittings). Start a siphon between the filters (toward center) and the outside of the reservoir. BTW, this is what I do when preparing to replace the filters.
Remove the hose, put plastic/zip locks over the ends of both hose and where it came off and take to a hydraulic/hose shop for replacement. Yes, make sure the new hose is rated for oil and the PSI.
Tell us where you are and we may know of a shop. There is an excellent one on the east side of Houston: Hose Repair Houston | Hoses Houston | Water Blast Hoses | Wilco Supply (http://www.wilcosupplyinc.com/)
Title: Re: Power steering hose
Post by: GleamB on June 05, 2018, 06:00:45 pm
Quote
If removing the hose does not drain it, buy 6' or cheap, clear plastic hose. Remove the lid to the hydraulic reservoir (two bolts/banjo fittings). Start a siphon between the filters (toward center) and the outside of the reservoir. BTW, this is what I do when preparing to replace the filters.
Remove the hose, put plastic/zip locks over the ends of both hose and where it came off and take to a hydraulic/hose shop for replacement. Yes, make sure the new hose is rated for oil and the PSI.
Brett, Thanks for the response. I have a decent background working on cars, motorcycles etc.....but I have a WORLD of stuff that is new to me regarding working on the "Yacht". I read the forum many times, daily. I ask questions from FT owners. I read, and reread the owners manuals, including the Cummins book. I believe that I, and other "new" owners of these older coaches, aren't as familiar with terms/proceedures that are sometime discussed in the forum. In this case, I clearly see the connection of the hose near the leak. I ASSUME ( a word I hate to use ), that I can get some open end wrench(s) to disconnect the fitting. I also assume, that I will have a container placed to capture any fluid ( you mention about two gallons ). I had NOT traced the other end, at this time, but will, when I get to a better working environment. Right now, the coach is in my front yard, near Belfast Maine, with the biggest town nearby being Bangor. I believe that the hydraulic reservoir you refer to is the black unit that I check the oil level of, at the back of the coach. I am lost about siphoning " between the filters"... forgive my ignorance here. I don't even know what filters you refer to, and I have been purchasing extra filters since I bought the coach 1 1/2 yers ago, with the intention of learning how to do all of them. So far, I have successfully changed the oil and filter on the coach, and learned, last week at Cummins where the antifreeze filter is, when I have to replace it. I purchased an extra filter while there. Nest, I have to learn how to change the fuel filters, and how to install the water separator. Perhaps you could describe the procedure of siphoning as if you were talking to a novice mechanic....i.e. when I open the reservoir, will the " center" and " outside" become clear to me ?? I assume that I am siphoning the fluid out of the reservoir in order to disconnect the other end of the hose ? And, now don't laugh at me, I assume that I "siphon" by the old fashioned method of .....???? not sucking on the end and drinking hydraulic fluid???....but ?????? I should be able to find a shop to make the new hose. And I assume that the plastic ties are so I know what end was what ??? And I should be able to determine what kind and how much oil I use to refill the system,... bleed it ??? ...and test it safely. I look forward to doing the repair myself. What filter(s) do I need, and is that pretty straightforward.
Title: Re: Power steering hose
Post by: wolfe10 on June 05, 2018, 06:30:29 pm
I am lost about siphoning " between the filters"... forgive my ignorance here. I don't even know what filters you refer to, and I have been purchasing extra filters since I bought the coach 1 1/2 yers ago, with the intention of learning how to do all of them. So far, I have successfully changed the oil and filter on the coach, and learned, last week at Cummins where the antifreeze filter is, when I have to replace it. I assume that I am siphoning the fluid out of the reservoir in order to disconnect the other end of the hose ? And, now don't laugh at me, I assume that I "siphon" by the old fashioned method of .....???? not sucking on the end and drinking hydraulic fluid???....but ??????
I should be able to find a shop to make the new hose. And I assume that the plastic ties are so I know what end was what ??? And I should be able to determine what kind and how much oil I use to refill the system,... bleed it ??? ...and test it safely. I look forward to doing the repair myself. What filter(s) do I need, and is that pretty straightforward.
OK, when you remove the hydraulic reservoir lid, you will see the filters stacked in the center. Between the filters and the outside of the reservoir is where you will siphon the fluid. Yes, you suck on the hose until oil is almost to your mouth and then drop it to ground level so it removes the oil into a container.
Be sure you have the correct PN and number of filters for the hydraulic reservoir. VERY easy to change once fluid is siphoned out-- there is a wing nut and large washer holding down the stack of filters (no tools required).
The plastic/ziplocks are to keep dirt from the coach-end connections and to keep fluid from dripping out the hose you remove so it doesn't make a mess. And, if that area is dirty, wouldn't hurt to take a toothbrush and soapy water to clean around the fittings/threads so no dirt gets in. Yes, make sure that the tooth brush is NOT YOURS.
As far as coolant filters, it is one of the few places where Cummins CAN NOT tell you the correct PN. Depends completely on what coolant chemistry you have. If one of the new generation coolants, you will use a filter "blank" which has filter media, but zero units of SCA. SCA is used on the old generation coolant and you need to test the coolant to determine which filter to use (different quantities of SCA).
System will self bleed after you fill the reservoir with new oil. Yes, check fluid level after running it and air is out of system.
If other questions to make you comfortable doing this, let us know. Nothing complex about it, but the first time you do it you want to have the "full picture" before starting-- at least I do.
Title: Re: Power steering hose
Post by: Jerry Whiteaker on June 05, 2018, 07:06:13 pm
. WE agreed that it had to be replaced. Cummins tied it up away from the repair, but now I have to replace the hose. The question is....Can I make this repair myself ? How do I drain the fluid and disconnect the hose ? Do I then need to have a hose "custom made" ?? Am I better off finding a shop to do this, as I don't EVER want any steering related problems. I await your input. Thanks !
Is this hose the Eaton Aeroquip that FT used for lots of things on the coaches, air, fuel, hydraulic, etc. Most aeroquip hose on my coach has what are called reusable fittings. I'm not sure how reusable they are as I broke one trying to remove it ( return fuel line). Still have to do the supply line. They are rather easy to install on the hose, screw on the outside part first, and then screw in the inside part, (put some oil on the threads). Cutting the hose is best done with an abrasive cut off wheel because of the inner metal braid. After cutting the hose should be cleaned inside of any metal and abrasive particles. The metal braid is between rubber or something similar. A careful person might be able to cut the metal braid without cutting through the inner part and then cut the inner rubber with a knife to avoid contamination. Not sure how the hose shops cut the hose, but they probably or should clean it after assembly. The fittings are not too expensive in the small sizes, but the hose is.
Title: Re: Power steering hose
Post by: GleamB on June 05, 2018, 07:31:57 pm
Brett, THANKS !! Got it !! I will attack this project soon. How do I know how much oil to replace after draining ( both ) ends of the hose and siphoning the tank ??
Title: Re: Power steering hose
Post by: wolfe10 on June 05, 2018, 07:41:10 pm
Short answer is to measure what you drained out. I would "over-buy" and return unopened gallons. Probably buy 5 gallons.
Title: Re: Power steering hose
Post by: Barry & Cindy on June 05, 2018, 08:31:16 pm
We use a $10 throw-away drill-pump to remove hydraulic fluid from open top. Also use the pump for removing fuel from bottom of tank. Handy to carry a new drill pump.
Title: Re: Power steering hose
Post by: GleamB on June 05, 2018, 08:56:55 pm
Barry,
What pump do you buy ? Where did you buy it ?
Title: Re: Power steering hose
Post by: Twig on June 05, 2018, 09:06:23 pm
We use a $10 throw-away drill-pump to remove hydraulic fluid from open top. Also use the pump for removing fuel from bottom of tank. Handy to carry a new drill pump.
WHAT??...hydraulic fluid? Is this not 15/40 oil? For petes sake, put a clean bucket under the hose fitting, disconnect it, collect the oil in the CLEAN bucket.......replace the hose and pour the oil back in the resevoir......did I miss something here? It can't get more simple.
Then again........that's MY motorhome.
Title: Re: Power steering hose
Post by: bbeane on June 05, 2018, 09:59:34 pm
I just siphon it into a clean bucket then remove the hose and catch what runs out. Either reuse the old oil or replace with New 15-40 Delo or equivalent. Never hurts to replace it, then use the containers to return the used oil.
Title: Re: Power steering hose
Post by: Barry & Cindy on June 06, 2018, 12:30:31 am
Hi Twig,
I figured that unscrewing that bottom plug or hose could be problematic as it has been in place for 20 years, and maybe it will leak after replacing, that is if we can loosen it. Drill pump is a simpler solution for us, in that it will for sure not give us any problems. Also not a lot of room for getting a bucket under and not making a mess. Drill pump with a couple of cut off garden hoses will be a clean drain. Hope all is well with you these days. We are back in Phoenix. BnC
Title: Re: Power steering hose
Post by: Barry & Cindy on June 06, 2018, 12:32:38 am
I figured that unscrewing that bottom plug or hose could be problematic as it has been in place for 20 years, and maybe it will leak after replacing, that is if we can loosen it.
Drill pump is a simpler solution for us, in that it will for sure not give us any problems.
Also not a lot of room for getting a bucket under and not making a mess.
Drill pump with a couple of cut off garden hoses will be a clean drain.
Hope all is well with you these days. We are back in Phoenix. BnC
Title: Re: Power steering hose
Post by: GleamB on June 06, 2018, 09:14:10 am
Brett,
I know that my questions might seem mundane to some, but I need to ask...how will I know what filters to replace when I open the reservoir? Will they be marked, and can I by them at a NAPA ??
As to the antifreeze filter that I bought at Cummins, while they were flushing and refilling my system, the mechanic I spoke to explained that the filter was a blank, as you describe. Now, I just need to determine WHEN I will R/R the filter. My guess is about three years from now, if I live that long. Thanks, again, for your help.
And while we are on the topic of filters..... I thought I was being real smart when I told OTM to give me duplicates of any filters they were installing, after we first bought the coach. Trouble is, I am not clear where they go. I am about to tackle the fuel filter(s) next, and the main one has the water separator. I am not at all sure of how to switch the separator from the filter, but will give it a go. Also, most of my FT buddies have told me to fill the filter with fuel, before installing. My FT manual says it is unnecessary, as I have a prime button I need a vote here. The filters I have are WIX 33583; 33390; 33231 AND 533407. One or two may probably be for the gen?? If there is a way I should cross reference, now and in the future, I would be happy to learn how to do so. I always want to carry extra fuel filters with me. Thanks
Title: Re: Power steering hose
Post by: folivier on June 06, 2018, 09:48:52 am
Good point Glenn, as a new owner of a 1999 36' U320 it would be great to have a listing of all the filters required so I could buy spares ahead of time.
Title: Re: Power steering hose
Post by: craneman on June 06, 2018, 10:03:13 am
If you still have the prime feature do not fill the fuel filters. Lots of opinions on this one, but until mine fails I will continue to use it. If you have the manual there is a page in there that lists the numbers and their purpose,
Title: Re: Power steering hose
Post by: Pamela & Mike on June 06, 2018, 10:26:06 am
Glenn,
Your filters for the hyd. tank (3 of them) part number will be a Nelson 84101B (the old number) and the new Fleetguard number 87610A. These numbers were swapped around when Fleetguard took over some of Nelson filters and this was one that got a new number. Either number will work as the filters are the same. You may want a new tank lid gasket the number for the tank lid gasket has remained the same 999-55A. Pamela & Mike
@folivier, These will fit your also
Title: Re: Power steering hose
Post by: wolfe10 on June 06, 2018, 11:07:17 am
I am not at all sure of how to switch the separator from the filter, but will give it a go. Also, most of my FT buddies have told me to fill the filter with fuel, before installing. My FT manual says it is unnecessary, as I have a prime button I need a vote here. The filters I have are WIX 33583; 33390; 33231 AND 533407. One or two may probably be for the gen?? If there is a way I should cross reference, now and in the future, I would be happy to learn how to do so. I always want to carry extra fuel filters with me. Thanks
If a clear plastic base for the primary fuel filter, I STRONGLY suggest you buy a complete filter with plastic base. That will allow you a backup if the plastic one breaks AND allow you to have the new filter ready to go when you remove the old one.
As long as the level of fuel in the tank is higher than the level of the filter base fuel will run out when the filter is removed. Best practice would be to install a "diesel compatible" ball valve at the inlet to the primary fuel filter. Without it, fuel will run out until the levels equalize (many gallons). That is why having the new filter ready to go is a real asset. And, while having fuel run out is not great, it is much better than having the filter housing higher than fuel level in tank, as then the fuel runs back to the tank, leaving you with 30'+ of AIR in the fuel line.
As far as filter specs (particularly micron ratings): http://www.wixfilters.com/Lookup/filterlookup.aspx
Post what they are (including micron rating and function) and we can tell you whether they are correct and where they go.
Title: Re: Power steering hose
Post by: GleamB on June 06, 2018, 12:26:26 pm
I thought I did post what OTM gave me. The question I asked was what goes where. Still asking. And... where is best place to purchase? NAPA? On line?
Title: Re: Power steering hose
Post by: Jerry Whiteaker on June 06, 2018, 12:51:23 pm
And... where is best place to purchase? NAPA? On line?
A lot of us used to buy filters from Filter Barn, free shipping over $100. But it seems they have stopped carrying Fleetgard.
Title: Re: Power steering hose
Post by: red tractor on June 06, 2018, 09:48:07 pm
You can buy the hydraulic filters from Cummins
Title: Re: Power steering hose
Post by: amos.harrison on June 10, 2018, 07:21:18 am
Glenn,
Only you can list your filter locations. Just match them up with what was installed. You may need a mirror if the numbers are out of sight. The schedule for coolant filter replacement depends on the filter used. Both one year and three year replacement filters are available.
Title: Re: Power steering hose
Post by: John44 on June 10, 2018, 07:37:52 am
Gleam,in answer to your questions,it won't hurt if you change the blank coolant filter early and if it gets totally plugged up it won't be as hot with no coolant flowing thru it.You said you have duplicate filters with the coach,on my 270 there is only one of each filter so if you take a filter off to replace it you should have one with you,not 100 % sure why you could'nt match them up.
Title: Re: Power steering hose
Post by: GleamB on June 10, 2018, 08:42:34 am