Is the easy button for more gray tank capacity to combine it with the black tank? I have 80 gallons of fresh and only 44 gallons of gray tank. As the bus is primarily used at race tracks with nice bathrooms, we really dont use the black tank much . Should I simply add a slide valve at the end of the dump pipes to allow combining both tanks? Thanks . MM
Many of the new coaches come with only one "waste water" tank, so doesn't appear to present any real problem. Adding a third dump valve is a common upgrade among Forum members...lots of threads about "How To..." Once you have 3 valves, you have much more flexibility in waste management. If one tank is nearly full, and the other not so much, you can simply close the 3rd valve and equalize tanks. Buys you a little time before hitting the dump station. Of course, you still have to keep a close eye on tank levels, so a working tank level system is essential.
The 3rd dump valve can be either a permanent installation, OR they make several styles of "temporary" valves that attach on the end of your dump line. Either way will do the job.
Valterra Waste Valve for RV Black Water Tank - Twist On - 3" Bayonet Hooks... (https://www.etrailer.com/RV-Sewer/Valterra/T58.html)
Thanks, Kinda the way I looked at it . I did a search for dump valves.
Don't know what your dump setup looks like. Here is my 3rd valve install - pretty simple once I gained access to the plumbing...
Problems with third dump valve mod (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=23338.msg181042#msg181042)
Question Chuck, any advantage to installing a black tank flush at the same time? I am use to using the Valterra Flush King, a portable third valve, with the built in tank fill. This way I can fill and dump the tanks several times using gravity to clean. Done this for over 10 yrs.
Amazon.com: Valterra F02-4350 Reverse RV Flush Valve: Automotive (https://www.amazon.com/Valterra-F02-4350-Reverse-Flush-Valve/dp/B008O9DV78)
Jack,
When I installed my 3rd dump valve,
both of my holding tanks were already equipped with "tank flushing hoses", courtesy of a prior owner. I did occasionally try to use them, but found them a hassle to hook up, and I usually ended up spilling water in the wet bay (not good). After I added the 3rd dump valve, I started using the Forum recommended procedure of dumping the black tank, then (by shutting the 3rd valve) allowing water from the gray tank to partially refill the black tank, then dumping the black tank again. I will do this 2 or 3 times, until the flow coming out of the black tank is mostly "clean" gray water. I feel this procedure is at least as effective as using a black tank flushing device, and for me, a whole lot easier. Plus it doesn't require a water hose at the dump site, and doesn't waste fresh water (something we desert dwellers think about).
On the other hand, if your Flush King valve works for you and you like it, I'd say just keep using it. Whatever works! ^.^d
I think that my bayonet twist on is larger then 3in. I bought a hose at CW and it was a tad small and had to use the OE connector to the new hose section.
I like that method tho.
Your holding tanks are larger than 44 gallons. Numbers escape me
Wiki agrees with Mike's 44 gallon number:
1988 Foretravel Specifications (https://wiki.foreforums.com/doku.php?id=through_the_years:specs:1988#grandvilla_ored)
I read the same thing. Except I sold them new. 58 gray 44 black? 75 fresh
The 2 Newells I previously owned had 1 combined waste tank. There was a grey water bypass that allowed you to divert the grey water through the dump valve before it entered the tank. That was a nice feature if you were somewhere it was allowed to "water the lawn".
Is there anyway to do that with our FTs the way the plumbing is configured? I do have the 3rd valve.
Sure. Hook up your sewer hose. Close your black valve. Open your gray & master. Only gray comes out. You could replace the sewer hose with a garden hose if you buy an adapter to convert the 3" outlet to a hose fitting.
If you're looking to completely by-pass your gray tank you're looking at a lot of work for not much gain.
see ya
ken
Yes, separate gray/black tanks are a hold over from when it was common to allow gray water to drain in the ground.
That was a LONG time ago. No longer a reason for separate tanks.
How about a separate water pump to supply gray water to the toilet and a black tank fill port?
I like keeping the tanks separate so that I can use the grey water to flush the line before disconnecting the hose. Putting grey water into the black tank is a workable thing, but I would keep the tanks separate. If you combine the tanks, you should include some fittings to flush the hose. Have a great day ---- Fritz
I will be joining ours together once I get some time to do it. I am having the odd issue with the electric black valve and rather than send this one back and wait for a new one I will just remove it from system and keep the new as spare . I do not see any reason NOT to to do the change.
JohnH
My neighbor said that his old camper gray valve leaked a little when it rained hard.
I still always dump my gray tank on the ground (I dont stay in campgrounds, ever). whats the difference between washing your car and dumping shower water on the ground? both are just soap and water....
You are staying where you dump your waste. How nice.
I've done the same but only on my own property where it is quickly absorbed into the ground or on other private property where I've been given permission. In many areas it is ok or even encouraged to use home gray water for your lawn. Kinda like what a septic system does.
http://ladbs.org/docs/default-source/publications/information-bulletins/plumbing-code/graywater-systems-for-residential-buildings-ib-p-pc2014-012.pdf
section C
Some practices that were common practice in the past are now illegal and/or frowned upon.
(+)1, Roger,Whenever we find traces of "Grey Scum" on public/BLM lands, we move on. No telling what.................etc.
Maybe folks should learn how to study cultures, buy some agar and some petri dishes and then do some simple bacterial growth cultures from samples of their own grey tanks. Grey water is more than just soap and water! It is a perfect breeding ground for trace amounts of fecal matter and all sorts of nasty bacteria that are being constantly refreshed and incubated in your "never sanitized" grey tank.I just barely tolerated biology in high school, but I did learn from some basic, culture growth experiments in Biology Lab.If you think that I jest about that knowledge, try it.The classic high school Biology Class test is to roll a clean cotton swab in your mouth and then to lightly draw a squiggle with it on gelled agar in a petri dish. Then let it incubate a few days (like it does in your Grey Tank). Some people like to test something even more gross like the keys on their computer, a cell phone case, the pump handle of a soap dispenser, or a TV remote control. Unless someone recently cleaned the buttons on the remote, you may be seeing some real goobers in a short time. Other things that you might test include: The door handle on your coach, any door handles in any restaurant, your hands, under your fingernails, the top of your desk, a pencil or a pen, the area around your bathroom sink, any ice cube from any restaurant, a calculator, or a supermarket shopping cart handle, or most importantly, some soil from just below that surface of grey stain/scum you noticed on BLM land.
Your Mother was right! Wash your hands frequently, be smart with what and how you handle things, and don't abuse antiseptics/antibiotics (bacteria finds ways of resisting and the survivors mutate to become even more dangerous). I say, use common sense and don't impose your grey water on the environment that we all share!
HTH someone, anyoneNeal
Ever wonder why your kitchen sponge starts to get smelly after a few days? Dumping gray water anywhere other than a dump station is just wrong no matter where you are staying.
A little off topic, but throw that sponge in the microwave for about 2 mintes and bacteria will be dead and the smell will be gone.
Microwave Kills Germs in Sponges (https://www.webmd.com/food-recipes/food-poisoning/news/20070124/microwave-kills-germs-sponges)
I just use boiling water and some bleach. Let it sit until it is cool. I don't like stinking up the Microwave with nasty sponge fumes and steam. We cook in it.
What we use most are cellulose/cotton dish cloths. They last a long time, are washable and dry quickly.
Amazon.com: Swedish Dishcloth, Set of 2 Different Red & Grey Designs ((TT) 2... (https://www.amazon.com/Swedish-Dishcloth-Different-Designs-Tapethona/dp/B00UZGDY52/ref=sr_1_29?ie=UTF8&qid=1529463854&sr=8-29&keywords=cellulose+dish+cloth)
I am always on private land or restricted access public land when i dump my gray tank. I camp at powerplants and landfills where I work and i do not stay in campgrounds or parks.
I also don't "dump" the tank. The valve stays open and it just drains off into the dirt.
My beach house on Oak Island, NC has an outdoor shower with open wooden slats, the water just soaks into the sand. How is that different than allowing gray tank to drip onto the ground? I really don't understand the issue.
Our nimbus has a combined black grey tank with a bypass valve if I want to do laundry. But I have found that by dumping the tank prior to laundry, that At the end of the day, I dump again and it cleans the tank and the hose. This I don't have to hook the hose up to the flush as often
I think it's a matter of perception. These days, allowing your RV dump line to drain on the ground is considered bad form
most places you might park your coach. If you park in a place where the neighbors don't care...then it's not where I would want to park. But that's just me.
One problem is that somebody observing this action doesn't know what is coming out your drain line. Not realizing you have two tanks, they might assume it is toilet waste. Of course, following your logic one could argue that allowing toilet waste to drain on the ground is no worse than all the wild animals and pets pooping and peeing on the ground. It's all the same stuff, right?
We have lived in a house for 35 years where all our toilet waste drains into a hole in the ground in our front yard (septic tank). We never think a thing about it, but that's cuz it is hidden from view, and doesn't smell (unless there is a system malfunction). Out of sight - out of mind. 8)
Like I said, it's all about perception. See my signature (below)
WE have been duning for about 13yrs and this is common.. Seen it many times.. right or wrong? Not me to judge as I see it as soapy water also... Let the tank sit for long periods of time and not dump I can see the problem with smell... your Fresh tank will smell also if you leave it long enough... do you drain it into the sewer also?
Combined tanks eliminate the ability to dump only gray water as an option.
More chemicals needed to offset the combined volume.
I have had gray water turn sour many times. Dump it versus additional chemicals.
We are normally dry campers.
I do have a garden hose fitting on the main drain cap to allow a long slow drain if necessary and a long main drain hose to disperse things att a greater distance if necessary.
Used to use copper sulphate type tank odor controls. (Aqua Chem)
Some dumps do not allow that as it kills their "healthy" tanks.
At that point a gray tank dump was problematic
We used to ride dirt bikes in the open desert and have dumped gray water many times in remote areas.
Hummm I'm not going to get into the discussion about the gray water issue. Butttt I wonder what those pop up campers and tents do with their waste when they are not in a camp ground.
They do the same thing the Animals do..
Combining Black and Grey tanks - no problem.
Proper waste disposal - The ability is nicely designed into our Foretravels, old and new.
But this has turned into a debate and expression of personal core values and behavior. It is far more than just perceptions.
Personally, I don't think a measure of our worth to ourselves, or the Foreforum microcosm of RV'ing behavior, is in how we can disrespect our environment. Rather, it is in how well we have learned to relate to our environment and fellow man.
Neal
Passenger train toilet - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passenger_train_toilet)
Used to walk down a about a mile of train track on the way to school every day when I was a kid.
To further digress...I flew the C7A Caribou in 'Nam (1970). The "urinal" on that aircraft was a plastic funnel stuck into a rubber hose, connected to a metal tube sticking out the bottom of the plane. The metal tube had a 90 degree bend in it, and the open end was supposed to be pointed at the aft end of the plane. Just for fun, when we got a newbie crew member, the crew chief would rotate the metal tube 180 degrees.
If I combine the tanks, what keeps the swamp gas from stinking up the shower drain? I doubt that it has a trap as it is too low . But I really havent looked .
It will have a trap for sure as that is a standard item.
JohnH
Like John said they all have a trap and you are correct that there isn't much room. Here's a photo of the trap on a 95. On this one the shower and trap were located directly above the passenger side rear wheel well. It's not a great photo but you can see that in order to fit the trap into that narrow space Foretravel had to hole the 3/4" plywood deck. The trap itself is very near the wheel well surface.
jor
Our 295 2000 has same setup and actually can now be accessed from under wheel well as it is now covered by an aluminum sheet and insulation above. I had to cut it out as it was leaking to replace.
JohnH
Gray water is a gray matter. The EPA mantra is "the solution to pollution is dilution". I still enjoy swimming in diluted fecal water. Perception doesn't work for the OMG people. And if your getting stink from dry plumbing traps a tablespoon or two of baby oil floats nicely on the top of the trap water, while letting polluted water flow nicely through, and then floats back level to help prevent evaporation. I don't make a dime off of this stuff. And OMG face the facts that our pristine holding tanks, contain all manner of oils, be it from cooking, avocado prep, dishwashing, or simply oils from our bodies. Many buildings recycle gray water part of which becomes an aerosal when "sprayed during the flushing process" OMG! The 3 valve method gives you extra options. Phosphate soaps used to be an issue.
So as not to start another thread . I have a couple of questions. First. I have not seen the tank vents inside the closet on my 88 GV. Do they maybe go to the roof?
Next . My dump hose bayonet pipe looks to be an original situation and measures 3, 3/4 in OD. I dont see any available fittings for that size. All of the modern ones are 3in as are the third valves. My Slide valves look to be about 4in retainer bolts centers. Maybe I can simply change all of the plumbing down stream of the valve bolt faces.
AT this most recent race we filled the Gray tank by about sat afternoon and had used most of the 65 ish gal. water tank .
I have a 90 sec timer on the bathroom motion light and I can take a shower in that time, but the girls, not so much.
My driver needed a shower and missed out. Not good.
Thanks for any tips as always.
We don't dump on the ground. We were at the navy base, which does not have sewer hook-ups, a few years ago and a young sailor and his wife were full timing there next to us. They had a leak(?) in the black tank valve of their Airsteam and it pooled on the concrete which had turned into a green algae covered puddle. Stank as well. I mentioned the leak but he did not seem to care. The campground manager also did nothing until I threatened to call the Environmental Dept. They moved him to another site. With his hygiene habits he would be a joy to have as a shipmate.
Another peeve of mine is the truckers that have a toilet in the sleeper and dump it on the ground at rest stops.
Keith
Mike my 89 has 3" nominal pipe size waste, some of the hub fittings are 3 3/4" od but still 3" id. A plumbing supply house should have a good selection of both hub and street fittings. Local RV hardware parts store that's on the way home. They have been in business for 50 years. They have the bayonet mounted valterra third valves. I could stop by and get a model number and length. Hub fittings are all female and that's what the big box stores sell. Street fittings are male on one end, and female on the other end.
Mike,
1. yes
2. Those OEM should have been the Thetford fittings. The 45 part number should be 01665 and the cap is 01664. Several have changed out to the standard size that is more common in the RV parts section most stores that have sewer parts.
Mike
I manage camping at music festivals. The density is absurd, but the health department allows NO gray water uncollected and removed at all. Every thing is collected and removed and disposed of like black water. Showers, dish washing water, etc. Don't let an inspector see you brush your teeth and spit. But, with wall to wall tents and Rv's it's necessary. There is no GRAY area in the rules or gray water dumped, ever.
Wantabe
Close to 30 years ago we added a pool when we moved into town. They made me plumb the sewer to the backwash because the water we swam in wasn't fit to go out on the lawn or run down the street. I can't imagine it's gotten any less strict over the last 30 years anywhere.
Thanks. I am hoping to change the plumbing downstream of the blade valves to modern 3in.
At that point I can use the available twist on blade valve to combine the tanks. I just ordered a 3 in expanding plug to cap the system until I get the bus back to my FL shop .
I don't know about the backwash, but in Los Angeles when you drain the pool you pump it into the street and it goes down to the storm drains.