I was just going to add this to an existing thread but figured it deserves a home of its own.
My 1981 Foretravel had a 3208 Cat and one of the belt tensioners went bad. There were 2 tensioners in that coach so I decided to redo both of them. I had 2 options:
1. Order 2 complete new tensioners for $189 each or
2. Order 2 bearings for $39 each and get the old bearings pressed out and the new bearings pressed in.
I was at the Cat dealer in Pasco, WA and was told they had a press and the charge "shouldn't" be more than their minimum shop charge which I believe was $100 an hour so it was an easy decision. I ordered the bearings.
The bearings came in and I brought the tensioners to the shop.
The foreman called in a young worker and gave him the tensioners and bearings. The worker proceeded to sit down at a computer for what seemed like an hour and then he walked out and started working on them at a bench. Soon he had them in a vise and was pounding on them with a hammer. THEN he got out the torch. At that point I went over to the shop manager and told him that I had a vise and a torch but came there because they had a PRESS.
Long story short, the manager led the shop worker to the press room and they were done in 5 minutes but they charged me 200 for labor.
I have a couple worse nightmares that I will add when I have more time but I think you get the point. What was your worst service experience?
At least you were still $100.00 ahead. Unless you figure your time sitting waiting for them get the bearing replaced.
That sounded kinda easy.. I would tell you about my Camping World ordeal and another Rv repair facility ( not really repair facilities, more like Hack Job Rigging).. but I dont want you to feel bad for me ^.^d
Crapping World let us sit for a hour and a half waiting for a appointment. I had it, finally, and walked into the shop to see what the hold up was. The tech told me they had a electrical problem that they could not figure out on a fresh coach. I watched him with his Fluke Multi-meter (same unit I owned) trying to check the connections. I realized HE HAD IT ON THE WRONG SETTING! I told him to find someone who knew what was what......walked out.......drove away....never returned. >:D
For some odd reason I have found that someone with a fluke multimeter thinks they are an "electronics or electrical tech"
even though they may not know where to set the dial for what they are checking!!!
Chris
For certain people, the little Radio Shack $19.95 VOM is better than a Fluke; less options to screw up!
I am a moron and I do all my own work. I refuse to pay 110 an hr to a different moron who can't do as good a job as the original moron.
I don't mind paying shop labor rate for a qualified experienced Tech that gets right on the problem, and the shop doesn't inflate the time. As old retired full timers, generally you can't in reality do heavy repairs in the middle of nowhere. So at some point you have to find you a good shop.
Just to give an idea, they had my coach for 3weeks to rewire the step pneumatic valve.. when I picked it up it was rigged up and I was a 1/4 tank of diesel lower as they didnt plug it in and the auto start was engaged .. that is just for starters.
We are heading up to June Lake in about a week with our friends joining us in their 5th wheel. Their trailer lights didn't work so she took it in to CW (without asking us, not that she had to) and after she paid the very expensive bill, drove home. Only after getting home did she realize the lights still didn't work. Why do people go there and get ripped off? Just read the online reviews first. Retirees don't seem to be honored but seen as targets by many shops and RV locations. At least Walmart does not rip you off when you go in the store in the morning after staying in their parking lot overnight.
I remember when our auto trailer hitch started to come apart while towing a horse trailer full of furniture in Ohio. We stopped in a small town and went to the local welder. He stopped what he was doing and welded up our hitch. $15 was the bill. Nice folks are still out there. Getting tougher to find them though.
Pierce
X2 Pierce, Qulified folks doing a good job at a fair price are getting hard to find. You hit the nail on the head, folks on the road with an RV with a problem usually = CA-CHING.
I second that. I would rather spend twice the amount buying the tools to do the job, taking twice as long or longer and in the end have the job done, my tool bag fatter, my knowledge base broadened, and me happier for a job done well, than have some dumbass work on anything and do a crap job.
Doesn't matter if its my coach, my car, my home, or my body. However I as always, reserve the right to change my mind if I feel like it....
Bob
In many states and California is one of them, you only have to put the $$ down for an RV and off you go without a clue of how the many systems in the coach work. You can get away with that in a car with AAA a quick call away but for an RV, it can be a time consuming and costly learning curve.
If we in the RV community, had to learn all the ins and outs of RV operation, perhaps these companies would not be able to pick our pockets so easily. Yes, a fine line here. Who wants to spend hours watching videos on wet tanks, electrical theory, turbo charger operation, etc when it never may be needed?
On our last west to east and back trip, we met two Foretravels in rest stops within one hundred miles. One was president of a Foretravel club and the other just an owner/operator. Neither one was a forum member nor had any interest in becoming one. (who would after meeting me?)
For newbies here as well as old hats, this forum has the potential to get you going in the right direction when you have a problem or even think you have one. Several members are active or retired truckers with a sixth sense for potential trouble and the best way and usually the least expensive way to get out of it.
Since I became a member years ago, the forum has grown and grown. While I know I don't always agree politically or over coach operating choices, I see many points of view and a shared love of travel. I sure don't know it all and don't hesitate to call or PM another member to pick his or her brain. We would not be reading and posting otherwise, right?
Hats off to a recent member with a new to them coach that before starting a lengthy coast to coast trip, starting asking lots of questions, both on coach systems operation as well as driving technique. Their trip has been great and with less uncertainties, less stress from knowledge gleaned here. New members may be reticent to ask questions as they may seem stupid or show a lack of confidence. Never true as all of us started at that point once and realize that you will never come close to knowing everything as traveling is a constant learning experience.
So, new members or others with problems or just questions, just ask or PM and someone will be glad to help or relate an experience.
Nice group of people here to ask first before putting yourself at the mercy of big profit motivated shops. Everyone has to make a living but...
Pierce
Spot on! I did most of the work when I had my own shop and tools. But, being full-time, most of us don't want carry all sorts of tools anymore and B) don't get a kick out of doing the job anymore! I had a shop up in Sequim, WA that serviced my coaches for 20 years, fair, honest, would let me stand-by in the shop watching. I'm afraid that type are fewer and fewer! Sad.
When I first bought my 1981 Foretravel in 2004, I brought it to a truck/RV service place in Rochester, MN for their "A list" of fleet services which was supposed to include belts, hoses, filters, etc. etc. I also requested they fix the odometer and service the generator.
The first warning sign was they had never heard of Foretravel. The second was that they were moving from one shop to another.
Long story short, my coach was in their shop for 3 weeks and it cost me $3700 and change. The speedometer quit within 100 miles of the place and I blew a radiator hose a couple days later when I was 800 miles away. Overheating caused a blown head gasket, 3 scored pistons and warped heads. I kept the blown radiator hose for evidence and sued the shop for the amount of the overhaul. It went to a mediator with me, the shop owner and their insurance agent. When I produced the "A list" which included new hoses and the blown section of the hose -- which proved they didn't replace it -- their insurance agent got out his checkbook.
Lay it on us. We can handle it and may learn something from it.
The point was, they were charging me $100 an hour for a hammer mechanic who had no business even touching my stuff.
Yup, after a while, you'll get to 'read' mechanics and decide then and there to either call for someone else, or bail. A lot of shops will not let you stand-by while the work is being done. I tell them, "this is my home, and I want to know what's going on. If I have to sign a waiver for your insurance company, so be it!" ^.^d
Many thanks Pierce for your recent post! You summed up my experience of the forum perfectly. As a newbie this group is invaluable to me. I read as many of the threads as I can. The advice/suggestions may not always be in alignment because everyone is giving of their specific experiences. I value it all. Sometimes I think I know something about a coach system and then discover there is more to learn. Even when a thread veers off topic there can be one word or a sentence about a coach system that gets me to look deeper into something I wasn't aware of. Those tiny bits of info become very important.
Recently, a service foreman at an authorized FT service center told me he didn't believe there was any desiccant to be serviced on our aux compressor. This was his own FT "newbie" moment. A moment not unlike the many I have had since owning our U270. I don't fault him, FTs are complex and there are differences between coach builds. Thanks to this forum I knew what to look for, why, and how it functioned, plus a photo of the unit. Thankfully he was open to learning more, (a good thing in a service tech). I was able to share my knowledge with him and build a successful relationship working together on our coach. He is now trusting me to provide the parts and assembly procedure for some modifications we will be doing in the future. In servicing our coach I'm not able to physically turn the wrenches but I will be informed on what is to be done.
Knowledge is the cornerstone for good decisions. Appreciate this forum and the members!
Last time I had to have my semi worked on, the tech must have used 2 full boxes of blue rubber gloves. $110.00 an hour and he changed his gloves about every 6 minutes it seemed. Took him forever to take out 4 bolts in the water pump. But I was under a load and had to have it fixed.
His sense if urgency was nowhere near my level of urgency! That's why I fix my stuff
I have owned 2 motorhomes. I have had it serviced by others 3 times.
The first was a 1984 34' Winnabago Elandan with a 454 chevy.
We took it to from IL. to CA. As soon as we hit mountains the 454 cracked an exhaust manifold. Back then, before the internet, Camping World was it. It was not too bad back then as the original owner still owned Camping World. I looked through there catalogue and decided I would have the Banks system ( Headers,fresh air intake, ignition) installed when I reached there shop in Anaheim Ca. We got a motel room nearby and dropped the coach off. The next day it was done so I went by to pick it up. It started fine. By the time I got to the Motel the engine was misfiring and running very rough. I thought a plug wire or two might have pulled off so I stuck my hand up through the front wheel well to pull on the plug wires to see if any were loose. What I found was a handful of silicone!
OUTRAGED, I immediately drove right back to Camping World, My outrage only got worse when I got there because the manager could not understand my anger from there "mechanic" trying to glue the 5 plug wires that he broke the boots off of, onto the end of the spark plugs with silicone!
I said there was no reason for this shoddy work, I would have, and I'm sure anybody would have, gladly paid for new plug wires.
The manager agreed to replace ONLY the plug wires they broke.
I went to a PepBoys and bought a new set of wires and spark plugs and installed them at the campground. I wrote a letter to the owner of Camping World explaining the entire mess. He wrote back with a note expressing his sincere regret with the way his store had handled this, along with a check for $300 to cover the parts and labor.
I doubt the same end would occur today.
The second service nightmare happened with the Foretravel shortly after I bought it. I needed tires so I went to Baur Bilt out side of Chicago. The "mechanic" didn't know (This is a truck tire dealer) that the left side lug nuts were reverse threaded. It was taking a long time to Finnish the coach, even the service writer was wondering why it was not done. The "mechanic" came into the service area and announced the studs were frozen. This prompted me and the service manager to go out to the shop to see what the problem was. There were several studs broken off on the left rear , one nut was badly stripped, a group of 3 "mechanics" and a 1" drive air impact was laying next to the wheel. The "mechanics" had a vice grip pliers on the stripped nut thinking they could break it loose. I heard the service manager whisper, but I could hear him, say to the group," you know those are reversed threads don't you?"
I groaned, and he then knew I heard him and knew what they had done. He ordered one of them to the parts room to fetch a new aluminum wheel and told the others to cut the wheel off with a torch. All the other lug nuts on all the other wheels came off no problem after this.
My next service appointment was with a truck repair place in Belvidere IL. Marvs Truck repair. I took the coach there immediately after leaving Baur Bilt to have the broken studs replaced. They did a great job, the ONLY good experience I have had with service.
I since opened the wallet and bought every tool I could think of to service the coach myself. Money well spent!
I've always claimed that whoever invents a belt-mounted, battery-powered "BS Detector" will make a fortune, and well-earned! ^.^d
I have a 12 VDC direct drive BS Detector. But it gets me in a lot of trouble.
OK complete non-sequitur: Anyone seen the current TV commercial with the Weimaraner looking over the fence? An ad for an insect collar I think.
But, I have gone into two pharmacies complaining of "musky toes" and asked for a remedy. The first looked like a deer caught in the headlights. The second (who had obviously seen the commercial) couldn't stop laughing.
Having written commercials for much of my automotive career, it is nice to see a catchy commercial!
Maybe we should have small stickers made that say "left hand thread on this side of coach . "
Would be surprised (it HAS happened) if there is not an "L" on the studs on the very outboard end of the left side of the coach with left hand threads.
MANY people -- including some excellent mechanics -- have run into problems with those left handed threads.
Being ambididextrous, 'on/off' has always been a big lag for me. Do ALL FTs have LH threads, or? ???
There is a very small "L" on the left side studs. The Budd style lugs are not used very often and most are older then the techs that try to remove them . A small sticker near the studd may reduce the stories told here.
Some people have the money to drive the newer or new coaches, and pay for someone else to maintain it. They have lawn guys, tax accounts, lawyers, and when something needs servicing, they pay someone to do it. They are not interested in how it works, they just want it to work.
Some of us are the polar opposite, wanting to know how things work, how to fix it, or at least have a good understanding of how it works and is repaired so when we take it in to let another work on it, we have a idea of what's in store.
I joined these forums several years before I purchased a foretravel. I learned a lot. One of the reasons I went with Foretravel is because of the people on this forum, willing to help out and share their knowledge and experience. There are other RV forums, and other Class A RV's, many which are good. But the people here made a difference to me. Shows something.
As for those that drive Foretravels, and don't want to be a part of a strong community of like minded owners... whats to say? Have a nice day? See you on the road? Maybe nothing at all. In the end, it's the community of people, not the brand of coach, to me that makes this different. But then, I'm new so maybe need more time around you guys to think differently >:D
Bob
It's easy if you hold a bolt up in front of you. The threads always go uphill to the RIGHT. A little tougher if on a coach and the stud is pointing at you but take a second to look at the threads. You can see a couple so you can tell. Some left hand studs have a "L" and some nuts have a small slot about half way from each end right where the angle changes.
If it's in the morning, I can usually pick out UNC or UNF from Metric with a quick glance but anyone good at BSW (British Standard Whitworth)? I remember when Perkins used BSW on a lot of engine parts but used UNC/UNF or the bell housing. Naturally, they also used cloth covered wiring that quickly faded. Nice as you could play Russian Roulette if you ever had to put wires back on anything.
Pierce
Pierce, I still have BSW tools from the old Triumph BSA motorcycle days.
I would start a new thread, but out of curiosity who has never had a bad experience with service? I don't think I am the only one who has never paid for a service on any vehicle. I have had motorhomes since 1983 and never have had anyone work on any of them or my cars, boats and motorcycles. That is why I can afford to own one. My brother and I were discussing while on vacation, that renting one would be as cheap as owning one if it wasn't used enough. Mine is also my earthquake back-up here in Los Angeles and I will retire and get much more use out of my coach.
I also spin my own wrenches, and yes I have had many nightmares doing so! Did pay a mechanic $85 to do a power steering seal on my 71 F-150 which involves removing the pitman arm, he lost but honored quote. Built an 1835 vw motor in my dorm room.
There is a mechanical fuel pump on your cat, a screw turn can increase the fuel. Oem was 5 seconds of black smoke at full throttle then go away.
There is an altitude adjustment also.
Same 5 seconds at altitude or one or the other is wrong.
Bet your coaches barely revs to 2800 or so if held there in third?
I'm glad to know that I'm not the only crazy person out there--I rebuilt a 283 that was bores .125 to make it a 302 if memory is correct. It was on 8th floor of dorm at U of A Fayetteville AR. we carried it down elevator on trashcan lid with wheels put it in a friends 1957 chevy in parking lot. long steel rod with 2 boys on each end lifted it in place and I locked it to bell housing. Fond memories long gone!!!
Also, spin wrenches --if it breaks I at least know who to blame!!!!
Chris
Times were different then, college students didn't have credit cards. Hmm
Put a 389 Pontiac V8 together in my apartment bedroom....Got evicted right after that.
I do it all,except heavy lifting.Some times I even figure out how to get around that. Tired of people messing my stuff up, then charging me big bucks. I get how it works......
"For newbies here as well as old hats, this forum has the potential to get you going in the right direction when you have a problem or even think you have one." One of the requirements for me back when we were researching was an active owners forum populated by people who actually did some of the work on their coaches.
Most of us do at least some of our own work, and I would guess that there are very few who do 100% of their own work. All of us have different skill levels, and only a few have a fully stocked shop with them. Last year, when we had our engine rebuilt, some people suggested that it was an easy job that I could do myself. After watching some of what the tech did, no, I couldn't have done it myself. I know my limitations.
Several years ago we suffered a breakdown while on the way to Oklahoma City. CoachNet towed us to Cabin Diesel in Big Cabin, OK. They were able to fix everything except for one part. Foretravel, in their great wisdom, had spec'd a special part that was very similar to a standard part. Foretravel thought they had the proper part, but it was the standard one, not the custom one. It would take three months before a new run of the custom part could be done. The manager was almost in tears when he told us that there was nothing more he could do. Fortunately, we have a friend who runs a tool and die business. He ordered a seal kit for the pump and had us bring both the new pump (with the standard shaft - that didn't fit) and the old pump with the extended shaft that did fit. He opened the original pump and discovered that it was still in nearly new condition, so he put in the seal kit and we sent the new pump back. The shop was opened on 2 January, when they were supposed to be closed, so they could get us on our way. Good service there.
kb0zke just mentioned CoachNet. I use them as well and a road service policy is a must have for anyone who travels in a motorhome.