Foretravel Motorhome Forums => Foretravel Tech Talk => Topic started by: Miz Dani on July 01, 2018, 02:25:10 am
Title: Allison Issues
Post by: Miz Dani on July 01, 2018, 02:25:10 am
.....damsel in distress here kids, left Billings, MT to get back to Rapid City Friday, 375 miles, 1st issue was the retarder quit working, then on all the uphill climbs she "shuddered" slightly & lost power immediately, slowed to a crawl of 25-30 MPH at the top, (in 5th or 6th gear, sometimes lower gear) then was perfect again with regular speeds on the downhills. This went on for 375 miles, the slight shudder & loss of power, kept pushing to get to Rapid, was great on the downhills...all gauges were perfect but the key pad shifted strangely & stayed at higher gears for low speeds, made it back to Rapid, am safely parked in an RV park...
There are 2 Allison authorized outfits in town, Allison in Tampa did a complete servicing a year ago, fixed small leak, put a new seal in, full check...most perplexing...any ideas?
Title: Re: Allsion issues
Post by: Tim Fiedler on July 01, 2018, 03:02:42 am
grab your allison manual and read the codes from your keypad -
is coach relatively level? IF you check the trans fluid from the keypad - it will read low (as fluid heats up it grows in volume, so it reads lower when fluid is not at operating temp) - still worth a look from keypad to see what it reads for fluid level.
Once you read codes and fluid level - we will have a clue - retarder quitting working probably a tell tale for someone more familiar with the transmission than I
"shudder" could have been slippage in transmission due to low fluid, hope your transmission is not damaged if fluid was low
Tim Fiedler
Sure Start Soft Start (http://www.gen-pro.biz) - home of SureStart soft starters TCER Direct (http://www.tcerdirect.com) - home of Generac Approved Aluminum and Copper TCER Composite cable generator-gas-prod (http://www.generatorgasproducts.com) - home of X-Riser Gas Risers for PE installation Call me at 630 240-9139 Gen-Pro
Title: Re: Allsion issues
Post by: amos.harrison on July 01, 2018, 06:40:51 am
You can only check oil level from the keypad when the trans oil is at operating temp. Check oil at dipstick first. Have you looked under the coach for leaks?
Title: Re: Allsion issues
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on July 01, 2018, 08:35:30 am
...all gauges were perfect but the key pad shifted strangely & stayed at higher gears for low speeds...
Dani,
You might expand that comment slightly. Were you able to down-shift and upshift manually using key pad arrows? Did the trans automatically shift all the way down to 1st gear when you came to a complete stop? Did the automatic up-shifts "feel" normal when you took off from full stop? Did you try using both of the "MODE" settings to see if they made any difference?
Title: Re: Allsion issues
Post by: bbeane on July 01, 2018, 08:42:36 am
Just a thought here could it be low engine power, fuel transfer pump, filters.
Title: Re: Allsion issues
Post by: wolfe10 on July 01, 2018, 08:46:08 am
To check for codes from the shift pad:
With ignition on, engine off push the up and down arrows at the same time. That takes you to an oil level check (which will not work unless the transmission is fully up to operating temperature).
Push the up and down arrows again at the same time. You will see a d-1and then either a two digit code or - -. - - means there are no diagnostic codes.
If you do have a d-1 diagnostic code push the mode button to go to d-2. Repeat until you get d-"whatever" and - -.
You will need to check fluid level with the dip stick. It should be toward the lower marks as it is cold.
Title: Re: Allsion issues
Post by: John44 on July 01, 2018, 08:49:17 am
When you wake up,leave some feedback after doing all the checks you can do yourself,did the trans service include fluid and filters?
Title: Re: Allison issues
Post by: Miz Dani on July 01, 2018, 09:43:18 am
...thank you all, just woke up, gotta get brain cranked, will try all this later, appreciate it a lot....
Chuck, key pad did not seem to shift properly all the time, finally left it alone...high gears in low speed was very disconcerting, she finally built up enough speed & seemed to shift OK after that....& she finally would go all the way down to 1st gear...I already use one mode button, didn't know there were two...Brett W., I took copious notes on how to do this, thanks.....got the manual out Tim.....Bruce, I thought maybe it was fuel pump too but retarder not working was kind of first clue, would have stayed in Billings but was already out in the middle of the reservation by the time I figured it all out & there is a whole lot of nothing from there to here...John, I have this engine with all fluids, belts, etc. fully checked every time I get any other kind of service, last time at FOT in March....she had been running perfect up to now... thanks all y'all....
...will be back later...today is supposed to be moving day (just me)....that Allison shop is just 2 miles away....
Title: Re: Allsion issues
Post by: wolfe10 on July 01, 2018, 09:45:18 am
Only one mode button. To get to diagnostic codes you push the UP and DOWN arrows.
Let us know what you find-- this only takes 2 minutes from the driver's seat.
Title: Re: Allsion issues
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on July 01, 2018, 09:51:14 am
I already use one mode button, didn't know there were two...
Only one mode button - but two "modes". I just wondered if selecting either "mode" made a difference.
Wonky shifting, erratic touch panel operation, erratic retarder operation, but normal trans temp indication.
So far, your problem sounds more "electrical" than "mechanical"...at least to me. Communication error between touch pad/ECU and trans?
Title: Re: Allsion issues
Post by: Mike Leary (RIP) on July 01, 2018, 10:02:33 am
Is the touch pad OEM, Dani? :-\
Title: Re: Allsion issues
Post by: Tim Fiedler on July 01, 2018, 10:49:17 am
Brett
you stated that Oil check won't work on Allison when not at operating temp. or is it not the case that (as I mentioned in my post) it is inaccurate when not at operating temp and sitting in park for a minimum of 1 minute before performing the keypad check?
As I recall, mine shows 3-4 quarts low when stopped and not at operating temp. Was suggesting that only since a manual dipstick check is a bit on the messy side for Dani and figured it would give some idea of Trans fluid level - symptoms would seem to line up with low trans fluid, correct?
even more suspicious of low fluid since seal recently replaced. Dani, have you noticed anything on the ground under the coach when you move it after being parked? I know, not a common thing to go back and look at the back end of your parking spot after you pull away.
Hope that all is well inside the transmission if run low of fluid for that distance.
Tim Fiedler
Sure Start Soft Start (http://www.gen-pro.biz) - home of SureStart soft starters TCER Direct (http://www.tcerdirect.com) - home of Generac Approved Aluminum and Copper TCER Composite cable generator-gas-prod (http://www.generatorgasproducts.com) - home of X-Riser Gas Risers for PE installation Call me at 630 240-9139 Gen-Pro
Title: Re: Allsion issues
Post by: wolfe10 on July 01, 2018, 10:55:32 am
Tim,
If one tries to check fluid level before transmission up to operating temperature, it will come up with the code oL 70 "Sump fluid temperature too low".
It will not give a code for fluid level.
Title: Re: Allsion issues
Post by: Tim Fiedler on July 01, 2018, 11:15:00 am
Aha - I knew you had the answer! I thought it would just give a low reading - but that would be a bad thing if owners then added Fluid to what could be an already full transmission - best to not display -
thought I had checked mine when cool, guess it wasn't that cool!
symptoms speak to low fluid then?
Tim Fiedler
Sure Start Soft Start (http://www.gen-pro.biz) - home of SureStart soft starters TCER Direct (http://www.tcerdirect.com) - home of Generac Approved Aluminum and Copper TCER Composite cable generator-gas-prod (http://www.generatorgasproducts.com) - home of X-Riser Gas Risers for PE installation Call me at 630 240-9139 Gen-Pro
Title: Re: Allsion issues
Post by: wolfe10 on July 01, 2018, 11:26:03 am
Aha - I knew you had the answer! I thought it would just give a low reading - but that would be a bad thing if owners then added Fluid to what could be an already full transmission - best to not display -
symptoms speak to low fluid then?
Tim Fiedler
Tim,
No idea. But checking codes only takes a few seconds from the driver's seat. A good place to start. Will put to rest a lot of the need to speculate.
Title: Re: Allsion issues
Post by: Pamela & Mike on July 01, 2018, 12:15:19 pm
It could be as simple as not enough voltage, like bad battery, connection, alternator, isolator and not a fluid level problem. As Brett as stated the more info from the codes will help out.
Mike
Title: Re: Allsion issues
Post by: Miz Dani on July 01, 2018, 12:31:42 pm
...gads I have no technical bones in my body so bear with me, have not been outside yet but just ran the check twice, here is what I got:
0 - L _ _
7 - 0
I also pressed the mode button & got the range of d-1 thru d-5 but nothing else came up on that, no unusual readings on gauges. While driving all gauges were perfect, oil pressure stayed high, all other gauges normal...again, no indicator lights...
....times like this I wish I had even one iota of tech sense...you guys are awesome...thank God for this forum & you "better brains"....
....followed Brett's notes + owner's manual...by the way I never got any indicator lights on for issues. I also used big owner's book for codes, still as confused as ever...
Title: Re: Allsion issues
Post by: Miz Dani on July 01, 2018, 12:36:54 pm
Wrong choice of abbreviations: what I MEANT to say was, "Dani, do you know if that's the ORIGINAL keypad? Sorry for the confusion, figured someone would kick my behind! ^.^d
Title: Re: Allsion issues
Post by: wolfe10 on July 01, 2018, 12:57:32 pm
Experts: Does this not mean oil level low 7 quarts? Was transmission up to operating temps?
NO. 70 means too cold to check. Look it up in your Allison manual or on-line.
Title: Re: Allsion issues
Post by: wolfe10 on July 01, 2018, 01:14:27 pm
Just got off the phone. Walked through the check codes-- none.
She is going to look underneath (left side door behind rear wheel) to see if she sees evidence of a fluid leak-- let's face it, with 20+ quart capacity, if it lost enough fluid to cause a problem it would be a REAL MESS under there.
She said she may need help opening the large rear hatch to check fluid level.
Also, going to buy new primary and secondary fuel filters. Have them installed and pour out contents of filters into clear glass jar to check to see it that was a probable cause of performance issue.
Title: Re: Allsion issues
Post by: Roland Begin on July 01, 2018, 02:29:05 pm
Similar to the symptoms I had when I lost my transmission cooler. Easy enough to check. Just check for transmission fluid level with the dipstick. If it shows very low look for evidence of oil in the coolant reservoir. Hope I'm way off base on this one.
Roland
Title: Re: Allsion issues
Post by: wolfe10 on July 01, 2018, 02:36:33 pm
Roland,
Certainly another possibility, though this failure is (thankfully) very rare.
Hopefully someone at the CG can help her get the back open and check the transmission fluid level (and verify that there is no coolant in it) and take a quick look at the coolant reservoir to verify no ATF in it.
Title: Re: Allsion issues
Post by: Carol & Scott on July 01, 2018, 06:51:08 pm
Danii - You are a smart girl. You just haven't seen it before. :D
Title: Re: Allsion issues
Post by: oldgrayrider on July 02, 2018, 04:20:59 pm
Don't mean to hijack but I had (have) a similar problem.
Retarder quit functioning & manual downshift response became inconsistent. At the time trans temp was ~197 on the gauge & the VMS. That was max temp I had seen this trip (Northern Georgia) but had been as high as 207 in the past (out west) without malfunction.
Pulled over at next level spot & went through pad diagnostics: oL Ok d1 62 23 Retarder temp sensor failed high d2 61 00 Retarder oil temp hot
Tranny dipstick shows proper level.
Is 197 considered high temp? Continuing driving without using retarder with no apparent issues. Looking for an Allison shop but any wisdom here is appreciated.
Title: Re: Allsion issues
Post by: Pamela & Mike on July 02, 2018, 05:41:52 pm
David,
It is possible that the plug has came loose from the probe. But that shouldn't drop the 6100 flag. You most likely lost the Temp. probe on the transmission thus the codes you have. Those codes come from this probe. The Allison number is 295-11861. This is a simple DIY job. You can call Ted Keating at his business TKT 800-997-4858 or email him at TKT Sales Allison Transmission Parts Supplier (https://www.allisontransmissionpart.com/index.php) he should be able to help you out and save you a $ or 2.
Pamela & Mike
On edit: The probe is on the drivers side of the transmission somewhat close to the main computer cable. I will look up the pics that I have posted before and repost them to give you an idea as to what you are looking for.
On 2nd edit: Here is a link to a previous thread for you to look over with pics. intermittent retarder operation (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=27804.msg228634#msg228634)
Title: Re: Allsion issues
Post by: Miz Dani on July 03, 2018, 01:55:42 am
Thank you all for your help & suggestions, & especially thanks to Brett W. for walking me thru what I needed to do, I learned a lot this time with his patient guidance & instructions.....got the engine open, checked everything with help of a neighbor + another brief chat with Brett....topped off all fluids then went & got extra (Transynd, Rotella, coolant, etc.) & filters to keep on on hand, + made a date with the local diesel maintenance outfit to do a full service + change filters + whatever else is needed, on 7/5.
Consider me much more educated & able to deal with a lot more than I was before on my own. Hopefully all this will take care of the issue. The nearby place is no longer an Allison service rep so if they can't get it all resolved I have another outfit to make a date with.
Appreciate you all...grateful for the collected expertise of the best owner's forum on the planet.....we're a lucky bunch to have this forum & especially a fella like Brett to keep us on the right path......y'all have a wonderful Fourth of July!
Title: Re: Allsion issues
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on July 03, 2018, 10:20:11 am
Don't get me wrong and I'm not pointing fingers but as soon as you purchase a coach, you have a responsibility to yourself, others riding with you and the public around you to know the basics of checking fluids, monitoring belt conditions, tire pressures, air systems, etc, etc.
Perhaps there should be a downloadable checklist for the items inspect on a daily or weekly basis not only on the road but as a pre-flight before you leave home. Also good to have a class where those without the knowledge can come up to speed on motorhome basics. Nothing like a hands on experience to give you confidence and the ability to better deal with any incidents.
I know in Germany, to get your driver's license, you must explain engine and transmission operation in detail and demonstrate the ability to change a tire. This requires a lot of study and many fail the test the first time. The first three vehicles at an accident must stop and render aid. Unless you can drive a manual transmission car, you get a restricted driver's license.
Pierce
Title: Re: Allsion issues
Post by: John44 on July 03, 2018, 10:55:37 am
Pierce,that's exactly what you learn at the Foretravel ladies driving school,the guys have classes all week also. If we ever had a driving test similar to Germany too many would never pass and the UAW would go goofy yelping they could'nt sell anything.Our fuel is so cheap compared to Europe that it's become a rite of passage as soon as a kid turns 16 daddy get's them a new car.
Title: Re: Allsion issues
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on July 03, 2018, 11:06:22 am
John, lack of vehicle understanding is gender independent. Women are just as capable as men. The last time down at my fire station at the SB Airport, the crew was all female.
Fuel is cheap here because we don't support our infrastructure. Our bridges are all worn out outside of the west and our roads seem designed to torture both vehicles and occupants. The difference in price here and there is all taxes. Low taxes mean low priority on maintenance and people.
Pierce
Title: Re: Allsion issues
Post by: John44 on July 03, 2018, 12:05:47 pm
I meant the guys don't just sit around,the women have many more classes and driving time then the men,at least 45 min in a new coach driving around Nac.Is a great expierience lots of info.
Title: Re: Allsion issues
Post by: John44 on July 03, 2018, 06:48:55 pm
Dani,what do we think the problem was?
Title: Re: Allsion issues
Post by: Miz Dani on July 03, 2018, 09:19:12 pm
Don't get me wrong and I'm not pointing fingers but as soon as you purchase a coach, you have a responsibility to yourself, others riding with you and the public around you to know the basics of checking fluids, monitoring belt conditions, tire pressures, air systems, etc, etc.
Pierce
...well unfortunately I made the mistake just a couple of months ago of trusting a certain "top" service provider to ascertain that all fluids, belts, filters & tires were topped off & in top shape for the trip from NAC to FL to South Dakota....that was my mistake, but an honest one....then yesterday I found the oil level to be FOUR QUARTS LOW (yes I am yelling because I am still mad as hell) & the coolant level to be extremely low. Inexcusable!
I'm not savvy enough technologically to know how to change filters but I'm certainly prepared now to double check fluids & make sure tires are adequately inflated. And to raise holy hell with any outfit that fails to do as I request as part of the usual maintenance & road checks for which I am paying. As I've said, every single time I have any service performed, I make this request but the last outfit obviously let me down & let me down badly. I intend to take up the issue next time I have the opportunity.....that is, if I ever return. I've now learned now that no outfit is to be trusted. I've had to oversee other work before, stand by & watch while appalling mistakes were uncovered & shoddy workmanship was found, (by senior techs who should have known better) and I've also had at least a thousand dollars worth of work go bad within 24 hours, & in spite of my taking it up with the owner of said outfit, was made to spend another couple of thousand the next time & sent on my merry way.
I guess I'm going to have to stand by & watch them when road service is done as well. In the meantime, I intend to make darned sure I do my own checks & not trust that someone else is getting it done. I've spent a small fortune on this coach as I am not a technological person, writing checks is so much easier than learning how to change my own filters, but when I don't feel I can trust someone to do what they said they will do, all bets are off, I am running out of service outfits I can trust, sad to say... >:D
Title: Re: Allsion issues
Post by: Mike Leary (RIP) on July 03, 2018, 09:35:25 pm
YOU GO GURL! It's not just the 'fair sex' that gets the shaft, so to speak. For those of us that travel (and live full-time) in our coaches, it's the biggest problem: finding someone you can trust! I'll need the 'full meal deal' before we go up to the NW and, so far, I've not interviewed any that I trust. I demand I stay at the coach, which is the first tip-off (insurance regs, is their excuse), even though I've offered to sign a waiver and on and on. I'll just keep looking, the forum has been a big help, but so far, no luck. So, dear heart, you're not alone; hang in there! ^.^d
Title: Re: Allsion issues
Post by: craneman on July 03, 2018, 10:26:53 pm
YOU GO GURL! It's not just the 'fair sex' that gets the shaft, so to speak. For those of us that travel (and live full-time) in our coaches, it's the biggest problem: finding someone you can trust! I'll need the 'full meal deal' before we go up to the NW and, so far, I've not interviewed any that I trust. I demand I stay at the coach, which is the first tip-off (insurance regs, is their excuse), even though I've offered to sign a waiver and on and on. I'll just keep looking, the forum has been a big help, but so far, no luck. So, dear heart, you're not alone; hang in there! ^.^d
This issue is what made me realize I could never live full time in the coach and give up my stick and bricks with my tools as long as I can drive the coach. I will travel around the country when I retire, and might get caught up with having to pay for a repair that I can't fix on the road. But I will do all my own servicing and repairs that can be done at home. If health gets to me where I can't handle the job I have a 54 year old son that some of my mechanical ability has rubbed off on, and I will coach him on how to work on keeping the coach up. I do this as I don't believe financially I could do otherwise.
Title: Re: Allsion issues
Post by: FourTravelers on July 03, 2018, 11:18:54 pm
...well unfortunately I made the mistake just a couple of months ago of trusting a certain "top" service provider to ascertain that all fluids, belts, filters & tires were topped off & in top shape for the trip from NAC to FL to South Dakota....that was my mistake, but an honest one....then yesterday I found the oil level to be FOUR QUARTS LOW (yes I am yelling because I am still mad as hell) & the coolant level to be extremely low. Inexcusable!
I'm not savvy enough technologically to know how to change filters but I'm certainly prepared now to double check fluids & make sure tires are adequately inflated. And to raise holy hell with any outfit that fails to do as I request as part of the usual maintenance & road checks for which I am paying. As I've said, every single time I have any service performed, I make this request but the last outfit obviously let me down & let me down badly. I intend to take up the issue next time I have the opportunity.....that is, if I ever return. I've now learned now that no outfit is to be trusted. I've had to oversee other work before, stand by & watch while appalling mistakes were uncovered & shoddy workmanship was found, (by senior techs who should have known better) and I've also had at least a thousand dollars worth of work go bad within 24 hours, & in spite of my taking it up with the owner of said outfit, was made to spend another couple of thousand the next time & sent on my merry way.
I guess I'm going to have to stand by & watch them when road service is done as well. In the meantime, I intend to make darned sure I do my own checks & not trust that someone else is getting it done. I've spent a small fortune on this coach as I am not a technological person, writing checks is so much easier than learning how to change my own filters, but when I don't feel I can trust someone to do what they said they will do, all bets are off, I am running out of service outfits I can trust, sad to say... >:D
Dani, How many miles have you put on the coach since this service was done? Ours "burns" about a quart every 2000 miles. Are there no signs of any oil or coolant leaks? It could very well be an oversight or incompetence on the part of the service tech, just giving the benefit of the doubt that something else could have happened. Don't beat yourself up, we have all been there (paid for sub-par service) at one time or the other. Hope your Allison issues are not serious or expensive to fix. Keep us updated.
Title: Re: Allsion issues
Post by: craneman on July 04, 2018, 12:55:24 am
The 4 qts. were transmission fluid. It should not use any.
Title: Re: Allsion issues
Post by: Miz Dani on July 04, 2018, 04:03:05 am
The 4 qts. were transmission fluid. It should not use any.
No, the four quarts were not transmission fluid, I have checked oil before, it was engine oil....the transmission did not need any fluid. I know how to read, and I had a very able diesel man helping me.
Title: Re: Allsion issues
Post by: Miz Dani on July 04, 2018, 04:34:10 am
Dani, How many miles have you put on the coach since this service was done? Ours "burns" about a quart every 2000 miles. Are there no signs of any oil or coolant leaks? It could very well be an oversight or incompetence on the part of the service tech, just giving the benefit of the doubt that something else could have happened. Don't beat yourself up, we have all been there (paid for sub-par service) at one time or the other. Hope your Allison issues are not serious or expensive to fix. Keep us updated.
Total miles approximately 4,000 since leaving NAC in late April....have not found any leaks, and I have been looking. Gary O. and I found the initial transmission leak, (and it was dealt with at Allison in TPA) a year ago, but in this instance it was clearly negligence. I have seen several instances of where so-called factory trained experts have done shoddy work, & had it done over again properly with no charge, I have also had to pay other techs to re-do the work that was done wrong & am not done with that fight. I am going to be all over these people (nicely but firmly) when it comes to any work done in the future. As soon as life settles down a bit (later this summer) I intend to address all these issues & keep a very wary eye out for any further additional screw-ups.
Title: Re: Allsion issues
Post by: amos.harrison on July 04, 2018, 07:05:35 am
Four quarts is one gallon. That's how much oil it takes to bring the oil pan level from the lower mark on the dipstick to the upper level. Not a serious issue. In a car four quarts low would cost you an engine.
Title: Re: Allsion issues
Post by: nitehawk on July 04, 2018, 07:11:59 am
Dani, are you going to update your avatar pic?
Title: Re: Allsion issues
Post by: craneman on July 04, 2018, 09:33:37 am
No, the four quarts were not transmission fluid, I have checked oil before, it was engine oil....the transmission did not need any fluid. I know how to read, and I had a very able diesel man helping me.
The engine being 4 qts. low would have nothing to do with your retarder not working. My mistake thinking the tranny must have been low. As mentioned above after driving 4,000 mi. the engine could have used some of your 4 qts. After your next service and after you are sure the oil level is correct, check the oil level again after driving 1,000 mi. and see what amount the engine uses before you read the service company the riot act.
Title: Re: Allsion issues
Post by: Miz Dani on July 04, 2018, 09:36:17 am
......well nitehawk, cannot seem to get the e mailed pictures to link up to the new computer as I'd done with the other one. Will get my computer tech to do it next time he assumes control of the keyboard....
Title: Re: Allsion issues
Post by: Mike Leary (RIP) on July 04, 2018, 12:52:25 pm
Come on, Dani, I just changed mine, if I can do it, so can you! ^.^d It sure would be neat if we could click on each other's avatars and bring them up full size!
Title: Re: Allsion issues
Post by: Lon and Cheryl on July 04, 2018, 05:42:17 pm
This BAD experience is a lesson to all of us.
There is a reason why commercial drivers always perform a pre-trip inspection. There is a reason why pilots always perform a pre-flight inspection. Not that they are able or willing to perform needed service but that they can personally spot a obvious problem or something simple that somebody else neglected to do.
Title: Re: Allsion issues
Post by: wolfe10 on July 04, 2018, 05:48:06 pm
There is a reason why commercial drivers always perform a pre-trip inspection. There is a reason why pilots always perform a pre-flight inspection. Not that they are able or willing to perform needed service but that they can personally spot a obvious problem or something simple that somebody else neglected to do.
VERY good advice.
Title: Re: Allsion issues
Post by: Mike Leary (RIP) on July 04, 2018, 05:55:32 pm
There is a reason why commercial drivers always perform a pre-trip inspection. There is a reason why pilots always perform a pre-flight inspection. Not that they are able or willing to perform needed service but that they can personally spot a obvious problem or something simple that somebody else neglected to do.
Yup, well said. It's another reason to demand being with the coach when being serviced. We prolly know more about our coaches than the pup that is doing the service. ^.^d
Title: Re: Allsion issues
Post by: turbojack on July 04, 2018, 11:25:57 pm
My engine dipstick is wrong and when it shows full it is two quarts over full. Since I have verified that full is the two quart down mark and do not fill past that point my oil consumption has gone way down from when I would try to keep it on the full mark.
Title: Re: Allsion issues
Post by: wolfe10 on July 05, 2018, 07:14:50 am
Yup, calibrating the engine oil dip stick is a very good idea and FREE when you do an oil change.
The engine oil dipsticks are NOT provided by the engine manufacturer!
If anyone needs the procedure, let us know.
Title: Re: Allsion issues
Post by: wolfe10 on July 05, 2018, 08:15:01 am
With so many directions that this thread has gone, may be best to start a new thread on specifics (such as calibrating engine oil dipstick) rather than change this one.
And, once the root problem has been determined (say, fuel vs Allison issue) either the OP or I can change the subject title.
Title: Re: Allison Issues
Post by: Miz Dani on July 05, 2018, 10:57:32 am
...well she's in the shop still but they (service director Nate) are great communicators, two calls so far, permission to change coolant/water filter (dated 2015) & seems the wrong color of coolant was stashed in the bay, + there is only one fuel filter? I took them 6 filters, ($350 worth) & all fluids, but the coolant was in the bay already. All parts were good & to the specs of Beamalarm site + Brett's advice.....the other news is that the retarder performed flawlessly on the way to the shop, I am ecstatic about that....they are also checking everything for leaks....
.....more as it happens...for now, am a happy camper.... and thanks to the mods for correcting the spelling of Allison in the title, that bugged me, I am a former editor & every time I saw that again I cringed....was in a hurry when I made the post....
Title: Re: Allison Issues
Post by: wolfe10 on July 05, 2018, 11:16:58 am
Be aware that the CORRECT water filter depends on what type of coolant you have.
If the new generation long life coolant, you need a filter BLANK (filter, but no SCA).
If the old generation "low silicate for diesel with added SCA" the SCA concentration needs to be tested and then and only then the filter chosen with the correct quantity of SCA. And, yes SCA can also be added as a liquid.
Did you determine how low the coolant was in the radiator (not just the overflow reservoir)?
Title: Re: Allison Issues
Post by: Protech Racing on July 05, 2018, 11:21:45 am
Anyone driving these should haver a pre flight list near the door or on the dash . Tires/, oil levels/ coolant/ awnings/ fridge doors/bay doors/ LP off or on /decks cleared/windows closed /landing gear/lights/fuel level/waterpump off/..are all included on my list.
You can check the oil levels and run this list. , the dip sticks dont know gender , just determination. Google and U tube have eliminated my need around my house . Good thing I have a little cash and very small insurance.
I also have a post flight list .
Title: Re: Allison Issues
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on July 05, 2018, 12:30:36 pm
My neighbor didn't have a list and ripped a bat-tenna off the roof twice. Very expensive.
Pierce
Title: Re: Allison Issues
Post by: Miz Dani on July 06, 2018, 02:23:52 am
Be aware that the CORRECT water filter depends on what type of coolant you have.
If the new generation long life coolant, you need a filter BLANK (filter, but no SCA).
If the old generation "low silicate for diesel with added SCA" the SCA concentration needs to be tested and then and only then the filter chosen with the correct quantity of SCA. And, yes SCA can also be added as a liquid.
Did you determine how low the coolant was in the radiator (not just the overflow reservoir)?
Brett, I showed your post to Nate, he agreed it was done properly.....they changed the coolant filter, topped off the coolant using the new extended life coolant, ensured the radiator was full as well....changed the primary fuel filter, and changed the air filter. Dated all filters & returned my used ones. I have 2 filters to return that don't work in my coach, (apparently I do not have a secondary filter) will also get spares of all filters. I'm going back by there tomorrow and asking some more questions, I was sleep walking thru the day (lovely campground fireworks going off half the night) & still have some questions. Also, no leaks were found...
I also went by Dakota RV, small shop but nice people with good local reputation, will schedule service on interior issues next time coach is going out on a long trip, in October. Next is shopping for 6 new tires, 5 years old come January.
Today big car/work horse goes into shop....next week little car into shop....no rest for the weary.... 8)
Title: Re: Allison Issues
Post by: John44 on July 06, 2018, 10:19:04 am
Brett,don't doubt you but not sure what you mean by the dipsticks are not provided by the manufactuer,the Cat engines I have worked on have a cat part number for a dipstick.Where do the dipsticks come from?I would think also that if my 8.3 engine is identical to let's say Jerry's then our dipsticks would be identical.Also different oil pans,filter size,extra oil coolers,etc affect oil capacity.Whoever changes oil on an engine especially a shop should check the level when they are done regardless of what a book or chart might say the capacity is.
Title: Re: Allison Issues
Post by: wolfe10 on July 06, 2018, 10:27:02 am
The engine manufacturer's parts list WILL show a dip stick for their engines-- a short one, like for an OTR truck.
The chassis maker (Foretravel in this case) supplies the LONG dip stick tube/dip stick needed for a DP application.
Would be interested in any info on any engine-manufacturer provided LONG dip stick tube/dip stick.
Title: Re: Allison Issues
Post by: wolfe10 on July 06, 2018, 11:10:05 am
Dani,
Wix has a great cross-reference tool. If you enter the number of any filter (like your water filter for example) it will tell you the specs including for water filters if they contain any SCA.
Also a good tool to verify that you are using the correct fuel filter(s). If you only have one fuel filter (hard to believe) it MUST, REPEAT MUST be a fine filter (likely 5 micron for a Cummins-- the engine manufacturer specs this). If you have two fuel filters, the primary fuel filter can be anywhere from 10-30 micron with the secondary fuel filter being the fine one-- likely 5 micron. So, even though all micron filter elements will fit on the filter base, the are NOT INTERCHANGEABLE.
Here is an example-- looking up a correct water filter (no SCA). Common part number WF2077: http://www.wixfilters.com/Lookup/PartDetails.aspx?Part=15637
It shows the micron rating and critically the " (No Chemical Coolant Filter)"
Title: Re: Allison Issues
Post by: Ted & Karen on July 06, 2018, 11:27:46 am
Dani- I have seen your coach and engine before- remember when we got it started at the Ladies Driving School? I can tell you that you absolutely have 2 fuel filters. The Primary is over your start batteries on the passenger side of the coach- that is probably what they changed for you. The secondary is about 2/3 way towards the back of the engine, on the same side, high up. It is not easy to see or get to, but it is there. As Brett says, definitely it should be changed. My engine is the same as yours except it is electronic ( ISC) and the Fleetguard filter for secondary is FS1022. Hope this helps and you get everything taken care of.
Cya down the road.................. ^.^d
Title: Re: Allison Issues
Post by: Lance Camper on July 06, 2018, 11:58:26 am
Dani- I have seen your coach and engine before- remember when we got it started at the Ladies Driving School? I can tell you that you absolutely have 2 fuel filters. The Primary is over your start batteries on the passenger side of the coach- that is probably what they changed for you. The secondary is about 2/3 way towards the back of the engine, on the same side, high up. It is not easy to see or get to, but it is there. As Brett says, definitely it should be changed. My engine is the same as yours except it is electronic ( ISC) and the Fleetguard filter for secondary is FS1022. Hope this helps and you get everything taken care of.
Cya down the road.................. ^.^d
WOW!.... Wow!.... I thought it was odd, that it only had one filter. WOW! Shaking my head in disbelief.
Title: Re: Allison Issues
Post by: bigdog on July 06, 2018, 12:07:36 pm
WOW!.... Wow!.... I thought it was odd, that it only had one filter. WOW! Shaking my head in disbelief.
My first fuel filter had been bypassed and had to install a new filter manifold. As I understand it. Back in the day, The filter from my era coach 1998 M-11. Had the glass sediment bowl on the filter and was notorious for leaking and getting air into the fuel rail and causing hard starting/no start issues. So folks bypassed them and relied on the finer micron secondary filter on the engine.
Title: Re: Allison Issues
Post by: Mike Leary (RIP) on July 06, 2018, 12:30:08 pm
My first fuel filter had been bypassed and had to install a new filter manifold. As I understand it. Back in the day, The filter from my era coach 1998 M-11. Had the glass sediment bowl on the filter and was notorious for leaking and getting air into the fuel rail and causing hard starting/no start issues. So folks bypassed them and relied on the finer micron secondary filter on the engine.
I've always had glass sediment bowls on the primary. Real handy to check every once in a while for grungus on board. Our secondary has the pump bleeder, which I would not be without, though I did have to change my pants one time when the bleeder became unscrewed and I was dead in the water. Brett did a smart thing by lashing a plastic bag over the bleeder, preventing 'oops!" and keeping the housing clean.
Title: Re: Allison Issues
Post by: Lance Camper on July 08, 2018, 11:06:43 pm
WOW!.... Wow!.... I thought it was odd, that it only had one filter. WOW! Shaking my head in disbelief.
I was referring to it seems that someone has misled her again by telling her she did not have a secondary filter. My disbelief was In a "Oh no, not again" kind of way. :headwall:
Title: Re: Allison Issues
Post by: John Haygarth on July 09, 2018, 12:05:28 am
Yes definitely you have 2 filters so go look for another mechanic as well!!! Ted said it correctly and it is a touch hard to see but if you look down on engine it is about half way along the passenger side of engine. I too use the one me toned . JohnH
Title: Re: Allison Issues
Post by: Miz Dani on July 09, 2018, 03:32:07 am
Yeh they are supposedly a Cummins service center, & this isn't the most complicated engine....I just didn't know....I'm definitely not a happy camper & have a couple more outfits to talk to by the time the work gets done......she goes into storage Tuesday, not doing the work til I take her out again in October. Plenty of time to find a decent place by then.
In hindsight, I now see what they did...they put an inexperienced tech with an inexperienced owner & hoped for the best....when I was going over some of the work with the tech, asking about the left over filters, I mentioned the coach was 21 years old...the kiddo (with the baby face) replied "hey, she's as old as me" ...naturally, my heart sank...in looking around the shop I saw plenty of older techs but of course they obviously gave this kiddo the experience of "practicing" on my coach...not happy about it and intend to let them know sooner or later. I also saw plenty of tech books on engines, so you'd think they would have opened one of the books....
Title: Re: Allison Issues
Post by: John44 on July 09, 2018, 03:39:57 am
Dani,have you signed up for the Cummins serve,lots of info on your engine.
Title: Re: Allison Issues
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on July 09, 2018, 07:56:23 am
Dani,have you signed up for the Cummins serve,lots of info on your engine.
https://quickserve.cummins.com/info/index.html
Title: Re: Allison Issues
Post by: Miz Dani on July 09, 2018, 08:40:58 am
.....thanks y'all for the link, I edited my post above to include the "hindsight" observation on the tech who did the so-called service...all I can say is next time I'll ask a lot more questions before I take her in....or go elsewhere......
I'll look into this program as well as the Cummins Power Club. In searching this site for the local Cummins outfit, I see the place I went to is not listed as a service outfit, but the Allison place is..(Eddie's, on the other side of town, & they are also the recommended Allison shop).