I'm still researching RV barn and am nearing a solution. Our city planning department "threw a wrench" into things, in that the over all height for the setback we want would be 15'. Since the roll up doors require 22" above opening, that leaves me with a 12' tall door opening. Is this feasible?
Depends on the height of your coach. Have you looked at side folding doors? May increase the opening height.
Keith
Some overhead doors are available with low clearance track option
I am not aware of side folding doors. Swinging doors on hinges?
My overall height (top of front A/C cover) is 11' 3" in travel mode. With 9 inches actual clearance I should be fine. I'm not concerned about a future property buyer with a 13' coach that's 45' long.
These are the doors I made for our barn. Center sections are 4" narrower than the outer ones. This lets them fold open more than 90°. You need a good sized flat place to build the doors. Mortise and tenoned frames glued, clamped square. Concrete blocks to hold them flat. Then glue and nail the skin on, Concret pe blocks again to hold the flat until glue dries.
That was a heck of a job Roger. I know from experience that it was much more difficult than you described. When considering "barn doors" I thought about how much weight would be on the hinges; adding more and then folding does a lot to alleviate that problem. I can imagine how much fun they were to hang (straight)! Others can't appreciate how much went into this project, if they haven't attempted something similar themselves. "My hat's off to you".
This was my solution on a limited budget. Over 20 years of use. new tarp every 7 to 8 years.
Thanks, Sven. Lots of thinking and planning before anything else. The middle hinges went on to the two halves with the doors on the floor. All of the ouside hinges got mounted to the doors. Sitll on the floor. A couple helpers, lots of wedges, get it in place and then lots of screws. 3/16" gaps all around. About 1/4" at the center.
I have also seen very low clearance vertical accordion doors where the panels accordion to the exterior. I would have saved a fair amount on my coach house with a 13' tall door, instead of my 14' door and 16' ceiling. Once the sidewalls hit 16' they have to be stamped by a structural engineer here in town. No regrets as I can walk nearly vertical across the coach roof if needed.
You can get sectional high lift doors as we use them on our commercial buildings, they would work.
Some people call them aircraft doors. Custom trusses are an option or instead of a peaked roof just a slanted flat roof with enough slope for run off is an option.
Roger, can you show me where the back door is?
I have a 12' opening on my roll up and need 11' 7'' clearance. Just make sure your installer can use the full 12 feet and that the door is fully retracted. It's a pain mount since most use the header beam of the door framing and full clearance requires lifting the unit higher. Good luck!
Five doors. Front and rear and one side are swing doors, 16' and 10' sliding doors on sides. Rear door was sized so that the engine hatch will open. Big side slider opens up to allow access side bays.
This was the maximum allowable size we could build, 14x40x12. Just big enough.
Your coach barn is a marvel of efficient engineering. Did you consider those "restrictions" when you
bought the coach, or did you just luck out?
I have a CHI overhead door with the Low Headroom option on my shop. It is 14'3" high and only needs 11" of headroom. They can be ordered in 3" height increments.
We are still going through the permitting process with the city on our garage. Because this is a high fire hazard area, I had to get an endorsement from the fire marshal (we were on a strike team together in '03) with regard to set back from the property line and house. Not only with my structure be metal and stucco (non combustible), but I also have install a sprinkler system, which requires me to change out the water meter to a 1" line ($1800). The final dimensions will be 20'x44' and just under 15' tall with 12x12 with a manual sectional roll up door.
I will put a sub panel in that will allow for 30A and some 20A outlets. Has anyone had experience wiring a detached garage? Presently I have a 30A outlet at the house (outside garage wall) that I use for charging the coach. I plan to put in a junction box there and running wire underground (22" deep if I remember). The distance will be about 25'. Will 10ga wire do? I need to put something down for the permit and will get an electrician later.
Awesome job on that build Roger! You did a great job of thinking it all through! ^.^d
Sen, go with #8 for that Length and be safe. The cost difference is not much and you will have a nice steady voltage.
JohnH
Hey, Craneman, I've been to Sven's house. He'd never get away with your setup.....or what you have in your yard!!!
Chuck asked, "Your coach barn is a marvel of efficient engineering. Did you consider those "restrictions" when you bought the coach, or did you just luck out?"
We never thought about which coach vs possible barn size. If I did it today I probably could have gotten a variance and done 16 x 50. We were looking for indoor storage. Getting access when we wanted was hard. Getting the coach out when we wanted was worse. So we started looking at building our own. We had room. We did the best we could with the available size at the time. Just like most projects, consider every need, find solutions.
Sven, length is from the source panel following how the wire is routed to the sub panel. Mine was maybe 40 ft in a straight line but at least 80 as wired. Do a 30 amp, 220v circuit. Don't skimp on wiring, pretty soon you're going to want to plug in a compressor. And put in way more lighting and outlets than you think you might need. Easiest to do all of this up front.
I'm in the same boat.
My neighbors HATE seeing the Foretravel on my property. I'm sure they checked out all possible means to have me remove it but nothing in the books to make me. I live on a corner, that makes it worse.
If I erected a tent setup like that pictured they would come at me with torches, a noose, and tar and feathers.
Sven, what Roger said, distance to source power is of vital importance for any intelligent recomdation. Is your 30 amp in the garage a 240 volt receptical? My guess is it's just 120 volt if that's what you plug the coach into. It would be nice to pull the coach out of the garage and run one roof a/c unit for guest or maintenance, so you have to add that wiring distance, can't run roof a/c unit very long inside garage before it craps out. Going have to zero in on your expectations to make a recommendation.
Sven how far is it from the breaker box to the 30 amp plug you are using? then add that to the distance you intend to run, by code it may be OK but realistically you may be on the edge. Personally, if I could get away with it I would run a #8 the whole distance to be safe. Breakers are for wire protection, but running small wire can also cause your AC to let the magic smoke out if wire overheated and breaker didn't trip.
Chris
I like the reasons for recommending the thicker wire, but it will make the wiring a little more complicated, since the plug in I have is 120v that used to go to the electric dryer (I took it out, since we use gas). I have been using a 25' 30A extension cord to the rig and it has worked well with the AC on. When we have guests staying in the coach, we will have it parked between the house and RV garage. The only requirement I have for additional outlets are for keeping my motorcycles charged. For that matter, I could have them plugged into a outlet on the RV when it is parked. If I were to replace the wiring all the way to the breaker box, I would look into a 50A set up if I have available amperage at the box.
With regard to restrictions and keeping the angry torch carrying villagers away, this has been a concern. The CCRs have expired and people have been doing their own thing for awhile. Appearance is the reason we are going with stucco and we will try to make it as attractive as possible, using palm trees and accents, but it's going up.
Sven, I think if you are going to going to run cable underground to the barn and connecting it (I am pretty sure it would have to be a herd wired connection in a box, not a plug) to an exisiting circuit the entire length from the barn to the original CB panel needs to be used for wire size. If you have two breaker slots avaailable then a 220v 30 amp circuit would give you lots more flexibility in the long run. A 50 amp circuit pushes wire size and cost up fast.
I agree with Roger add another conducter underground for 240 v future, I don't think you can run a neutral to a sub panel for 120 vac only anyway, so your back to a ground rod. Check with your electrician. Electric vehicle charging stations may be an asset also soon.
I put the coach house/shop on a separate 200 amp service as our residential prime time demand (money grab) charges are very hefty from 2:00 till 8:00, once you go over the base limit. Solar on your coach house roof might be another consideration.
Wiring a sub panel in the barn requires a wire with two hots, one neutral and one ground wire from the main panel
The sub panel requires that the ground and neutral wires are separated and isolated - the neutral buss bonding screw needs to be removed (it's a dark colored screw) and a small buss gets added to the box wall for the ground wire
This gives you a fully functional panel allowing for regular receptacles a lighting as well as your RV hook up.
Thank you for all the suggestions - I've learned a number of things. I'm taking bids from electricians for the job. I've decided to go with 50A 240v supply with interior and exterior 50A receptacles. An sub panel in the garage will allow me to put in lights and any 20A outlets I might need to run air compressor and tools. I'm also going to upgrade my 200A main panel with new CBs though it isn't necessary. I just don't like old electrical stuff.
I don't think you will regret this wise decision. A few more bucks, but a decent flexable infrastructure. That may allow that extra roof area to support a solar array, and if that array leak a few drips no big deal ^.^d
Good choice, Sven. It adds value to the barn now and for future uses of the building. I like having a coach plug in point when the coach is inside and a second one that I can reach when the coach is outside.
I did the same, with a 20/30/50 amp connection box outside for summer work or a guest. Or a welder etc.
I looked at adding 600 watts of solar on the roof of the barn (not the best angles) but enough to keep the batteries charged. I also have an off peak 240v 30 amp circuit that is unused. Power at 4¢ / kwh is OK,
We have three rates with the "super off peak" being that time when everyone is normally asleep. I wonder if we can set up a timer for it to come on only during those times.
Our off peak is on all the time except when the electric coop want to limit use. AC, Water Heater, and Unused circuit are all remotely controlled. They can turn off AC 15 min per hour when demand is high. Same with the unused circuit. And the water heater is on from 11PM to 4AM unless we ask them to leave it on. All power through the off peak meter is at the off peak rate.
We are thinking of doing something similar next to our existing Pole barn. Do you mind sharing the manufacture? Size of pipe. I have looked at several and it is difficult to know what exactly I need. Also are you in the snow? We live in Wisconsin so I need something that will take the winters.
The manufacturer is Absolute Steel based in Phoenix. Another you might check is Versa Tube, which is very similar, for comparison. They were pretty good at designing the building to match my needs. In doing my research, I wanted to find someone with history and large accounts; in this case, they have done contracts with the US government. They can answer questions regarding snow loads, etc.
Metal Building Kits, Garages, & Carports by Absolute Steel (https://www.absoluterv.com/)
There are several voltage drop calculators online I did 120 single phase AC, 30 amp load, in copper wire at 25ft length and it says there is 1.172 volt drop with #8 and a 1.864 drop with #10. I hope that helps.
You might want to rethink this a bit, here's why. As far as tying onto an existing outlet with a junction box, you will need to remove the existing outlet unless it's wired for an extra 30 A capacity, unlikely. If possible, I'd recommend coming off your service panel with a new circuit, 50 amps. The difference in cost will be minuscule compared to 30 and utility will be much greater.
You will need an electrician involved, might as well get him over there to evaluate and give details for permit.
Sen, like I said at the start use 8ga wire.
JohnH
Foundation has been postponed for a few days due to unseasonal rain. Regarding the electrical hookup, we are still waiting for a meeting with an SDG&E rep. to get approval for upgrading our panel. There is an issue of the panel being located just above the gas meter (no longer meets code), but we might at least get an updated, if not upgraded, panel. The present 30A wiring will be replaced with appropriate wiring for the supply and distance. We aren't cutting corners on the project, since that usually results in problems or limitations later.
Hopefully if the rains are heavy and lots of it you have not dug the ground for the footings. Heavy constant rain will soften the base of it meaning it will not be suitable for concrete to be poured unless adding gravel or? To strengthen that base.
JohnH
Always use a larger size cable, why not run 4 wire #6 to allow for 'future' choice changes that could include 50-amp and almost eliminate any voltage drop.
Wire size depends on the distance from main panel to sub panel as it is run, not a straight line, not the distance from one building to another. My barn is less than 8 ft from the garage where the main panel is. Wire length was more than 80 ft. Bigger wire than the minimum for the amps and distance is always a good choice.
I will put in my 2 cents. If me I would run 3 # 4 & 1#8 copper wire to a small panel in your new building. Install a 80 or 90 amp breaker in your main panel. Add a 50A plug near where your coach power will be when in the building with 3#6 & 1 #8 to a 50A breaker . Then add some 120v outlets with 3-12g wire and put on 20 amp breaker. Make sure the plugs are gfi protected.
With the panel in your new building it will allow you to add more outlets at a later date.
Check your local electrical code. A sub-panel in your outbuilding will probably have to have its own main breaker. Generally the main breaker in the sub panel and the breaker in the main panel should be the same size as I recall. Electrical codes may be different where you live as may the rules about getting electrical permits and inspections. Wire sizes are specified by amps and length. No guessing allowed.
I'm relying on the judgement of an electrician to put in the supply line and subpanel. A city inspector will ensure that it is up to code. My main reason for going with a pro is that I don't want to mess with the main panel. SDG&E got back to me, denying any improvements to the original (obsolete) panel because of the proximity to the gas meter. If I want to put in a new (exchanging "like for like") panel with new circuit breakers, I will be subject to the current code and move the panel about 4' away. The only exception is if it is an emergency due to a dangerous situation. I explained that as a firefighter for 30 years, we took preventative measures, rather than wait until it became an emergency. I also added that if I ever had an electrical fire at the panel in the future, I would be talking to them (inference being "through a lawyer"), since they denied my attempt at improving the safety of the panel. They are going to get back to me on this.
Total bullshit I am sorry whatever DA came up with the sh** rule is totally ignorant about reality of the very very narrow combustion.window of gaseous mixtures at the same time a spark might occur from defective panel. Engineers reign supreme over code inspectors and fire department officials (AHJ's) as clearly stated in any code as an engineered design. AHJ's typically have only a high school degree and minimal amount of continuing education classes put on by guess what, various vendors while they consume their steak and lobster dinner. If you want a real eye opener read the limitations on the $$$$ life safety devices such as fire/smoke dampers. End of rant. Overly prudent engineers design terraplanes, real engineers design airplanes.
I would like two fingers of whatever phred is having please. Neat, no ice. Thank you.
Calm down Phred. We may not agree with all of the rules but we have to comply if we want to move forward in a timely manner. I did all of the structural calculations for my barn from soil loads to footings to wind and shear loads, headers and trusses. I submitted all of this to the building inspector who was impressed. It was a pretty good working relationship after that. I think they respect builders who know what they are doing. If you treat the inspectors with disrespect you are going to have a hard time getting your project done.
By way of disclosure I have been a real engineer by training and practice for more than 50 years.
Back to the wire size and subpanel issue. 3% voltage drop is normal for conductors downstream of panels. Panelboard wire size are based on CB size to protect the wire. Probally never see max load or voltage drop only after an extended power outage. Circuit breakers are sized as the MAXIMUM OVERCURRENT PROTECTION DEVICE (MOCP) or MFS maximum fuse size. To try to protect the end user this is based on inrush current. Wire size is typically based on the MCA rating to a appliance. This is known as diversity. Is it safe to have 42 20 amp breakers in a 200 amp panel yes. Ignorant AHJ
or installing contractor may tell you otherwise.
"Overly prudent engineers design terraplanes, real engineers design airplanes."
John Dillinger and Baby Face Nelson drove Terraplanes.
Terraplane - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terraplane)
It is what it is, AHJ's can't respond to that question honestly maybe a problem there based on other $$$$$$ influence, we don't offer that period.