Foretravel Motorhome Forums => Foretravel Tech Talk => Topic started by: George and Steph on September 14, 2018, 08:11:13 am
Title: Gates Plant master hose, 19b.
Post by: George and Steph on September 14, 2018, 08:11:13 am
After reading other posts about issues with Gates Plant master hose, 19b. I checked my hoses. My hoses were replaced by Berndt in January 2016. We had previous issues with the wrong fittings being used creating air intrusion as I described in a separate post.
I have attached pictures of the hoses on the Genset. I am replacing all of them and inspecting the heater hose, also, which should be compatible.
I appreciate the earlier posts on this issue.
Title: Re: Gates Plant master hose, 19b.
Post by: Journey, Roam, Explore on September 14, 2018, 09:14:48 am
2 1/2 years old and already cracking. Berndt also replaced the basement on my coach as well as the fuel lines for 2 previous owners and both jobs are not up to standard. Don't know much about this vendor but buyer beware. If I had contracted with them, I would be on the phone with them. But since I bought into this, Guess I will have to deal with it.
Title: Re: Gates Plant master hose, 19b.
Post by: John44 on September 14, 2018, 09:24:59 am
Wrong hose,wrong clamps,what was he thinking,how can a shop that the owner seems to know what he's doing be so careless. Now I remember why I still do the work myself.
Title: Re: Gates Plant master hose, 19b.
Post by: George and Steph on September 14, 2018, 09:56:04 am
I agree on doing the work myself. However, I came to this venture without the skills I have now acquired. Acquiring those skills has been very enjoyable. I am fascinated by the workings of our coaches.
That said there is a reluctance to criticize vendors for multiple reasons. Pictures seem to take away the argument that it was done correctly or that you are just flaming. I am not worried about being sued for the truth.
I am contacting Berndt today and discussing how this can be resolved. Reasonable folks can reach an appropriate course of action.
Title: Re: Gates Plant master hose, 19b.
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on September 14, 2018, 10:05:31 am
I gathered from previous Forum discussions that Berndt made his name as a "diesel engine guru". Perhaps he should have stuck to his area of expertise, instead of branching out into other services. I have never met the gentleman, nor visited his shop, but this recent revelation of multiple fuel hose problems has certainly sullied his reputation in my mind. Future customers: caveat emptor.
Title: Re: Gates Plant master hose, 19b.
Post by: George and Steph on September 14, 2018, 10:41:25 am
We will be taking our rig back to Berndt for replacement at no cost. No arguments. I very much appreciate the approach he took with me on this issue. We were headed west so this worked out for us.
Title: Re: Gates Plant master hose, 19b.
Post by: Don & Tys on September 14, 2018, 10:45:50 am
Two and a half years, wow! The Parker HTFL that Foretravel put on our coach in November of 2013 still looks like new. Granted the original lasted almost 15 years, just under a third of the way there for the new stuff, so the jury is still out on the longevity of the Parker HTFL. I plan on doing the Foretravel thing for at least 15 more years (fingers crossed). I hope to not have to deal with the fuel line issue ever again, but only time will tell. Don
Title: Re: Gates Plant master hose, 19b.
Post by: gracerace on September 14, 2018, 11:00:18 am
Ditto for us, 2 yrs, 8 thousand miles. No issue's with Parker 7212. Would dread doing it again.
Title: Re: Gates Plant master hose, 19b.
Post by: John44 on September 14, 2018, 11:44:36 am
While were on the subject,what fuel hose came on our coaches from the factory,maybe we can come up with what was on the coach originally and what years so at least we can check that way to see if it's been changed and also what connections were used.
Title: Re: Gates Plant master hose, 19b.
Post by: Journey, Roam, Explore on September 14, 2018, 12:27:37 pm
We will be taking our rig back to Berndt for replacement at no cost. No arguments. I very much appreciate the approach he took with me on this issue. We were headed west so this worked out for us.
Well that is good to hear. Yet still, how many coaches did they do this to that they will not be replacing I wonder? I have already begun my fixing of it, and am not the owner that contracted him to do it, yet would not in any way shape or form, have anything good to say about his shop. The previous owner contracted with his shop to replace the basement under a insurance claim. The work I have been finding is sup par to say the least. Screws that were siliconced in instead of using a different fastener, bolts thru the bottom that are not sealed, some kind of tar sealant that never set up and I am not sure what that is, the fuel tank drain opening is open to the underside, exposed foam, some of the inner glass is already delaminating.... Some of these things I will eventually fix, some are beyond my ability to correct without redoing the entire job. Why the PO didn't take it to Foretravel I can only guess.....
Title: Re: Gates Plant master hose, 19b.
Post by: Don & Tys on September 14, 2018, 01:10:55 pm
Bob, Was the owner who contracted that work Paul Smith? If so, I saw this coach at Quartzsite several years ago. As I recall, he noticed a significant water leak in the water pump bay. I was just fresh from doing my basement/bulkhead rebuild and looked at it with him. I mentioned the downsides of bulkhead/basement rust issues to him at the time, though I didn't try to be an alarmist. I did however emphasize the need to fix the leak ASAP. Sorry you have gotten some unpleasant discoveries, but it sounds like you are on track to put things right. Paul, or whoever had the work done, put their trust in a professional and was not well served by them. Unfortunately, professional often just means somebody who works quickly enough to make a profit. If I got $10 an hour for the work I did on our coach, I would never have money issues for the rest of my life if I lived to be a hundred! Admittedly, I don't work that fast, but it seems like I am always blazing a trail trying to build a better mouse trap when I tackle these projects. Don
Title: Re: Gates Plant master hose, 19b.
Post by: Pamela & Mike on September 14, 2018, 01:17:37 pm
Bob, Was the owner who contracted that work Paul Smith? If so, I saw this coach at Quartzsite several years ago. As I recall, he noticed a significant water leak in the water pump bay. I was just fresh from doing my basement/bulkhead rebuild and looked at it with him. I mentioned the downsides of bulkhead/basement rust issues to him at the time, though I didn't try to be an alarmist. I did however emphasize the need to fix the leak ASAP. Sorry you have gotten some unpleasant discoveries, but it sounds like you are on track to put things right. Paul, or whoever had the work done, put their trust in a professional and was not well served by them. Unfortunately, professional often just means somebody who works quickly enough to make a profit. If I got $10 an hour for the work I did on our coach, I would never have money issues for the rest of my life if I lived to be a hundred! Admittedly, I don't work that fast, but it seems like I am always blazing a trail trying to build a better mouse trap when I tackle these projects. Don
Don, yes it was Paul's coach. He sold it to Richard, who had the basement replaced by Bernd. Since they had the coach for almost 6 months per the PO, you would have thought they would have replaced the unsuitable hose at that time. But they didn't. So I for one don't have any faith in them. Changing the fuel hose out can be a big deal for some of us, as is a lot of things these puppies need. But for me, unless I do it myself, I can't be sure it was done right. I might not do it the right way either, but then I will know what was done and how to fix it if I need to. Really so far it wasn't a big deal. So of my parts are coming in now, and I will start replacing and fixing next weekend. First on the agenda is to repair the torn fiberglass under the fuel tank, and correct the delamination there. I will paint it with bilge coat as well to seal the glass on any future leaks. Then slowly replace the lines. John44 offered to help, and I will take him up on it. Just need some new fittings. Also have new Racor style knockoffs on their 500 series filters for the generator and aqua hot. I will add a Racor style 1000 for the engine soon as well. The propane bay (we are all diesel/electric now) will be the filter bay. Should be a interesting project. Not one I wanted to do this year, but oh well, roll with the changes! Bob
Title: Re: Gates Plant master hose, 19b.
Post by: folivier on September 16, 2018, 09:27:42 am
"The propane bay (we are all diesel/electric now) will be the filter bay."
Neat idea, will you mount the engine filter there? Or just the AH & genny? Please post pictures!
Title: Re: Gates Plant master hose, 19b.
Post by: bbeane on September 16, 2018, 10:47:26 am
Don't know if I would want fuel filters in a bay should a leak occur, or a filter get dropped while changing out the filters.
Title: Re: Gates Plant master hose, 19b.
Post by: Journey, Roam, Explore on September 18, 2018, 12:55:28 am
Don't know if I would want fuel filters in a bay should a leak occur, or a filter get dropped while changing out the filters.
Won't be a issue. No different than a sailboat that has a racor filter in the engine room. The racor filters are changed from the top, not the bottom like a RV filter.
Quote
Neat idea, will you mount the engine filter there? Or just the AH & genny? Please post pictures!
Probably all 3. Haven't decided yet. Will post pics when the fuel thing is done.
Title: Re: Gates Plant master hose, 19b.
Post by: John/Pat on September 18, 2018, 09:51:49 am
My comment on Bern'd offering to fix on his dime admirable but not worth diddly. If his idiots were unable to do the job the first time what makes you think that they will do it right the second time. If Bern'd was the only FT shop available for service; I would sell my Ft before I allowed him to touch it. I went to him after reading the recommendations on the forum. A terrible mistake. MOT or FT but never Bern'd. Everything I had him do was either half ass or broken and fixed on my dime. Such a great shop that replaces a a/c compressor but strips the fittings so the new compressor takes 3x as long to install. All the time the clock is running at over $100 hr. I could continue for several pages of incompetent workmanship, but I will save the readers all of my experience with Bern'd.
Title: Re: Gates Plant master hose, 19b.
Post by: George and Steph on September 18, 2018, 11:28:48 am
( I went to him after reading the recommendations on the forum. A terrible mistake.)
You make a good point on why trust him again. We will see. I believe they are capable of getting it right. Not always the case with recommended vendors. When Infinity badly botched our flooring and TV update, I did not take it back. DIY carpentry is not cabinet making and no reason to believe it was going to improve. We were very happy with Larry's FOT fix but it took a couple of coach bucks. On the other hand, the upholstery work Infinity did was superb.
The Forum is excellent for so many things but can also suffer from old reviews, processes etc. Mechanics come and go. Beau is no longer with Berndt, Issac left OTM before they closed and Larry is no longer at FOT. It is my understanding the tech who did our floors at Infinity is no longer there as well. Two years ago I advised a new member to use caution with happy vendor reviews and was accused of making a blatantly false statement about the Forum. I overreacted and took offense. Not my finest moment. I believe we all do our best to help our fellow travelers but things change.
Title: Re: Gates Plant master hose, 19b.
Post by: Don & Tys on September 18, 2018, 12:52:16 pm
George, This time at least, you will be able to make sure that the appropriate tubing or hose, fittings, clamps, etc. are used, and Bernd, as he is no doubt aware of the forum and its influence on his potential customer base, will be anxious to improve his credibility. I hope that he can evolve his operation to a more "quality over quantity" paradigm. He does have skills, but perhaps management is not among them. I watched him do our valve adjustment, and he did know what he was doing. I had a feeling though that his personality is one that tends to over promise... just my impression. What I didn't like about his approach was that he tried to hard sell me on changing the air bags due to safety issues, which didn't square with my assessment of the situation. I ended up doing that job myself. Don
( I went to him after reading the recommendations on the forum. A terrible mistake.)
You make a good point on why trust him again. We will see. I believe they are capable of getting it right. Not always the case with recommended vendors. When Infinity badly botched our flooring and TV update, I did not take it back. DIY carpentry is not cabinet making and no reason to believe it was going to improve. We were very happy with Larry's FOT fix but it took a couple of coach bucks. On the other hand, the upholstery work Infinity did was superb.
The Forum is excellent for so many things but can also suffer from old reviews, processes etc. Mechanics come and go. Beau is no longer with Berndt, Issac left OTM before they closed and Larry is no longer at FOT. It is my understanding the tech who did our floors at Infinity is no longer there as well. Two years ago I advised a new member to use caution with happy vendor reviews and was accused of making a blatantly false statement about the Forum. I overreacted and took offense. Not my finest moment. I believe we all do our best to help our fellow travelers but things change.
Title: Re: Gates Plant master hose, 19b.
Post by: Bill Chaplin on September 18, 2018, 02:04:17 pm
Is it a merry go-around for tech's in Nac ? where do the excellant one's go.......... where do the lesser one go?
Title: Re: Gates Plant master hose, 19b.
Post by: Ted & Karen on September 18, 2018, 05:19:42 pm
The best advice I can give anyone about using a shop is to stay there if possible while the work is going on. You don't have to hover over the techs but to be there as things progress, watch tests ( failures), etc has helped me most of the time. Of course being full time my home is where it is parked so perhaps easier for me than most.
When I had my fuel lines done at Bernd's he had a couple guys from the car side working on it. When they started it up for test I saw fuel pouring out of the connections on the fuel cooler. Beau was still there then and I told them I wanted Beau to personally supervise the check and recheck of every connection. They took out everything to inspect and correct clamps, including removing the fuel tank again. Bottom line, it was done right when I left there. The downside, they buried the cost of the redo in my bill-, but that is another story.
I hope your redo goes well.
Cya down the road ^.^d
Title: Re: Gates Plant master hose, 19b.
Post by: amos.harrison on September 20, 2018, 08:26:05 pm
I have had nothing but excellent work from Berndt over a number of years. I do always stay with my coach wherever I am. So call me crazy, but I'll be back to him for a rebuild of my Centinel injection pump in November.
Title: Re: Gates Plant master hose, 19b.
Post by: John44 on September 20, 2018, 08:35:04 pm
If there's a hose involved,make sure he's using the right one.