Looking for part numbers on two items for our '92 U225 Cummins B5.9 230 HP.
- Radiator Cooling Fan Clutch
- The V belt pulley that is attached to the AC unit
Have tried MOT and FOT and neither one has any information on this.
Thanks,
Jeff and Deb
Sign up for the Cummins Quikserve on the Cummins site,you will be able to look up part numbers.
Have you verified you do have a radiator fan CLUTCH (vs direct drive)?
On the V belt, remove and read the numbers/measure it.
We were getting what appeared to be a screeching noise from a belt upon starting the engine. It would go on for 10-15 seconds or so. Took it to a repair shop in Norwalk, Ohio and they tested to see what was causing the problem. They removed the V belt to cancel out the AC compressor and belt tensioner and checked all pulleys and the alternator and found no issues. They also found once the fan fully engages, the noise goes away. Their recommendation was for a new fan clutch. They also recommended replacing the pulley mentioned.
They said it was fine to continue on to Mackinaw City, MI where we are for the next 11 days. I did noticed the engine temp sometimes goes up to 200+ and hovers around there. Other times will stay between 180 to 190 all day. Would like to order parts while up here so we can find a recommended service place on the way back down.
Open the engine room (raise bed).
Feel/take picture of the fan hub.
Let us know what you find (solid vs clutched).
The referenced pulley and fan pics.
Also, any ideas where the ESN is located? Cummins Quickserve requires it and danged if I can find it :-)
Did you grab the fan and try to rotate it? If it won't rotate, there is no clutch (which is what I suspect).
Find the dataplate on 6BT 5.9 Engines: The long narrow metal tag that is attached to the front cover/gear housing contains the dataplate information. If you have lost the tag, look on the left side of the block, when looking from the front of the engine, above the oil cooler housing.
Looks like a solid fan,tensioner looks newer,could the serpentine belt be worn?
If you/they have ruled out issues with the accessories/bearings:
Serpentine belt could be worn, or wrong length.
Or tensioner could be the wrong one.
Progress and information update.
A little over 3 weeks ago we took her to a Cummins shop near Winchester, VA. They did the following:
- Oil and Filter change
- Fuel Filter change
- Steam Clean
- Water Pump replace
- Fan Drive Tensioner replace
- V Ribbed Cooling Belt replaced (Seems to be a ittle confusion on which belt the actually did replace
The Shortly after leaving VA, we noticed the belt noise upon starting. When we got to OH, a friend (a diesel mechanic instructor) recommended we take her to the place mentioned earlier.
They did find the the belt crossing the pulley pictured above had been over tightened. Two mechanics (including the senior mechanic) sat back on the engine having me periodically start the engine trying to find the cause of the noise periodically eliminating possibilities as noted above.
After about an hour of this, they finally came to the conclusion it was the fan clutch, especially since the noise would stop once the fan started moving 5-10 seconds after starting the engine. Since it was late on Friday, they wern't able to do any further repair.
So now, the complication, per Brett's instruction, I tried to turn the fan, but it didn't budge, indicating no fan clutch.
On the plus side, after some searching, contortions, and stretching, we did find the ESN.
Right now, the plan is to send some pictures to FOT, check with a Cummins shop about an hour down the road from us, and see what we can dig up based on our ESN discovery. As always, your help is both welcomed and appreciated.
Steam clean can lead to problems. Fan belt tensioner looks off center, but idk much about this engine belt setup. Not an issue related to this problem, but you might try to find out if the KDP issue (killer dowel pin) has been addressed.
EXCELLENT EYES!
Yes, look at the second picture. The tensioner is not installed (air gap on right side of picture, tight on the other side, so it is not parallel with belt)-- likely the detent pin not in its hole.
Wondering if that might be a shadow from the flash on the right hand side. Will take another picture.
Didn't request the steam cleaning, not particularly happy finding it can cause problems. Thanks for the info on the KDP. Will get that checked.
Should be an indicator parameter on the tensioner,if somehow you could look at that when it's running,any chance they saved
the old tensioner to match up?Would also find a way to clean the fan itself,looks pretty dirty.
Better pictures of the tensioner and belt.
Sigh, will try to stretch a little further for the sake of a clean fan :D
Looks like the v-belt is new and the serpentine is not.
Latest Update.
Had some mechanics recommended by the campground look at everything yesterday. Their diagnoses is that it is the AC compressor causing the problem. Their recommendation is to replace the compressor and the attached tensioner pulley for the AC compressor. (Note: the Ohio firm said they removed the V belt to cancel out the AC and tensioner and the screech was still there...of course they also said the problem was the non-existent fan clutch)
For future reference, did some checking and the AC compressor is Sanden Model 7409, Series SD 709 which uses R12. (Go to Sanden USA (http://www.sanden.com/) and enter 7409 for the Model#) According to the site, the 7409 has been "replaced by Aftermarket Version" Model #4663, Series SD7H51 which uses R134A.
Jeff,
Suggest they remove the A/C belt so that you will KNOW if the noise is related to the A/C compressor or its idler pulley.
Now sounds like the time to make a choice of repairing the AC or not.R-12 is virtually non-existent,so if you ever need any your screwed,R-134 will need a few more things besides the compressor.
Will do Brett. Good point John.
Another thing they mentioned is that the water pump, ostensibly replaced cummins, didn't look new, although they did say it could have been sitting on the shelf for a long time.
They further said that the wrong radiator hose is in place indicating it is a corrugated type and is rubbing on another part of the coach. They are recommending a fabricated pipe using rubber connectors like the ones they use on the big rigs.
Still trying to ID the AC Tensioner Pulley. Meanwhile, here are pictures of the old and new AC compressors.
Many idler pulleys have an easily replaceable bearing. With the A/C belt removed, very easy to spin the pulley to check for play or bearing roughness.
Picture of the radiator hose that interferes/touches a part of the coach?
In picture 3523,looks like there is a clamp that came loose,not sure but think you have to change the expansion valve to convert
to 134.Maybe someone with the same engine can chime in about the corrogated hose.
Ya, looks like a bracket that was there to locate the coolant pipe.
Yes, there is a clamp of some type where part of it appears to have broken off. No idea what it's purpose is. Will get a better picture of it.
Will probably defer the picture of the coolant hose until tomorrow. Heavy rain today.
While taking some picture of the AC compressor today (with the bed up), had a small visitor try to help me out. A squirrel jumped up into the engine and decided to see what was going going on. Fortunately, he decided to go back out the way he came rather than exiting into the coach and making Deb scream. :D
That bracket it to stabilize/limit movement due to vibration of that pipe.
There are some hydrocarbon based refrigerants that can replace R-12 and are actually more efficient.
So the latest update...
Had the AC Compressor replaced but to wait a couple of days for a replacement AC hose. Finally, Dash Air now working and cold.
While waiting for the AC hose, we left the V belt off of the compressor (per Brett's suggestion) to see if the screeching noise happened. Everything sounded pretty good on the drive back to the campground (~60 miles) but the squealing started up as we were about halfway through backing into our site. Was able to get a recording of it.
Let the repair shop listen to the recording and as a result they changed the serpentine belt and cleaned the pulleys. She sounded good at the shop even refusing to squeal when trying to duplicate "backing up" situation. Of course today no noise when leaving the campground in Angola, IN. Got to our site in Shipshewana, shut her down, restarted to pull a little further forward and our old familiar squeal was back. It's so intermittent that we've pretty much given up on finding it for now. We are scheduled to be at MOT on Oct 31 and we'll let them finish tracking it down.
Coolant problems have been fixed and we ended up just using a Gates replacement radiator hose (see picture) with a with a high pressure clamp on one end.
Bottom line report, except for the occasional squeal, she's running great.
Work was done by N&J Auto-Diesel Repair in Gaylord, MI. Overall impression, Roadside Assistance charges were ridiculous (that's another story); at $100/hr, we felt in shop charges were reasonable (but watch the number of hours charged as they tried to charge us for 2 hours labor while were were sitting in their parking lot waiting for service); Bruce, our technician, was outstanding. Make sure he's the one to work on you coach.
Once again, thanks to all of you for your help.
Most quality shops are 100$ per hr.
Yep, no problem with the $100/hr, in fact given Bruce's work, would have been OK with a little more.
Big problem was the Roadside call. This may be standard practice but it caught us a little off guard. So the charges were:
$100: Service Call
$124: Mileage ($1.00/mile - 62 miles each way)
$250: Drive Time / Diagnose Motorhome (Assumes 1 hour each way plus 1/2 hour diagnosing the problem)
Now the issue: The owner was one of two fellows in the truck. He told us they had just come from another call about 10 miles north of us off of I-75 (their shop is located off I-75, 62 miles to the south of our campground) and got to us on their way back. Our guess is that the other call likely had to pay $144 mileage (72 miles each way) plus at least $200 for the time spent driving.
So it would seem that between the two calls they were able double charge for mileage and time driving. This includes being charged for 62 miles and 1 hr time to get to our campground when they were only 10 miles and 15 minutes away at most. However, like I said it, this may be standard practice so we didn't complain (especially given the quality of Bruce's work).
Just though it might be worth sharing as a lesson learned.
My wife told me one time after I had an air leak on a 3day weekend to suck it up and pay the premium or sell the motorhome and stop complaining.. She was and usually is right.. $350.00 for an air valve but we had a great weekend with the kids and I didnt get killed trying to change it out and I still had the skin on my knuckles ^.^d
Those charges can be quite common. When I did the roadside work I never saw the bills from the peterbilt dealer I worked for but I know it varied greatly on who was calling. Of course they know that they only have to be cheaper than a tow for you to be willing to pay. I was an apprentice at the time but the attitude there was that there was no better way to learn (there was alot of phone calls back to get advice) and then they weren't losing a guy off the floor in front of the customer. I learned alot at people who had no choices expense.