Well here we go yet again. In my three years as owner. I have had ONE trip that didn't involve a major catastrophe. The DW and I arrived at Hoquian river RV park on Thursday afternoon. We are hooked up to 50 Amp and city water. Today after being out and about. The wife decided to relax out side with a book. She soon came in and told me: You don't want to hear this, But water is pouring from under the coach. The water is coming from in front of the rear passenger drive axle above the suspension and above the forward air bag. I have 1/4 tank of fresh water but am using the parks water. I do have a pressure regulator on the fresh water hose. I put my finger into this water stream and it didn't smell at all. So it's fresh water. The is no water in the area of the manablock (which was new a year ago and installed by a Foretravel tech) The house water pump was also replaced at the same time as the manablock. Next I cracked the fresh water tank drain valve and the leak immediately stopped. On the wet bay side there is just a little bit of water and the underside of the fresh tank is moist. The fresh tank has now been draining for 30 minutes and shows half full, City water is hooked up and no leak. Could there be a stuck tank fill valve? And how would one fix that. In the mean time. I will shut off the city water and wait for the tank to drain and turn it back on and see if the tank fills.
I eagerly await the wisdom of the group.
I find myself hoping for an electrical fridge fire so I can just write this thing off and return to a normal life. Even my DW is loosing hope ans patience.
The fill valve for the water tank either has failed to shut off or else it is turned on. Simple fix/ only run on the water pump do not hook up to city water except to fill the tank. That is how we traveled for 5 years and no regrets about water.
I had a leak in same area, when it raced it out the connector behind the fresh water hose real in wet bay was leaking. There was just enough slope in the coach so the water migrated to passenger side before leaking out.
Hope you find it
Chris
We. Now only use city water while showering then turn it off and use tank water
Me thinks your fresh water fill is on or stuck open, sounds like the water is coming out of the fresh tank over flow. I know your gauge says 1/4 tank but. Posssbly the switch got bumped on.
I'll give that a try. No light is on and I turned the switch on and off. Now where is that valve and can I get to it without major surgery?
Man do I hate my coach. >:D
I agree with Bruce. The overflow is really hard to see but from your description that's what's happening. Here's a photo showing its location. Don't despair. I think this won't be a hard one.
jor
Advantages of running from the tank: 1: Your tank stays clean. 2: If you have a leak it will only leak the amount of water remaining in the tank. 3: If you have a leak you will be able to hear the pump recycle.
Advantages of NOT running from the tank. 1:
That's where it's coming from jor. I turned on the city water again and hit the fill switch. I filled it to the 1/2 way point and turned of the fill switch. It was very slow to stop the flow and made a sort of Wheezing sound for about 30 seconds before going quite, Then I turned the city water off. So far a stuck fill valve seems to have been the issue.
jor, I really can't help feeling despair over my coach. It's just one thing on top of another to the point that even the little things are getting under my skin. Three years with one mostly trouble free trip and $30,000 in repairs on top of the $48,000 paid. Yes that might not be a kings ransom and is likely a pittance for the average Foretraveler. But it's a lot for a retired enlisted Air Force man who can't afford to build a big shop and stock it with all the tools of the RV repair trade. Every time I turn the key, I wonder. Will it start? What thing will break next. And so far this coach has broke with alarming frequency. Esp given that it hasn't been used a whole lot by us, is stored under a roof and is always plugged in. It has been in the shop for many more weeks than we have stayed in it (7 Weeks use Vs 12 weeks in the shop)
The auto fill solenoid should be next to the 12 volt water pump, mounted on the floor in the fresh water line. We had the same issue one time on our 36. I pulled the solenoid, not hard to do, and when I took it apart there was a small pebble/sand particle in the valve, keeping it open. Took about 15 mins to take out/clean out. When the solenoid is pulled you can connect to 12 volts to verify that it works. It should click when power is applied.
I do not know if that is your problem but it might be worth a try. It does not sound like a catastrophic event.
Do you use a filter between the water pedestal and your fresh water hose? We always use a 5 micron particulate filter when we put water in the tank or when we use the street water for everyday use.
We have hit our water fill button, and unknowingly filled the tank to where it overflowed. Some times it is hard to see that little light behind the button.
In the mean time you can fill the tank and use your water pump for your needs.
Chances that one of your pex tubes are cracked or broken are small. It is possible that one of the pex connectors may have failed. A shark bite can be used to replace the faulty fitting.
I can certainly understand your feelings and have been following your journey via your posts. You have received your share of issues. After 6 years of owning 2 different Foretravels, every time something raises it's ugly head, I always think the worst. BTW - In the first 4 years of ownership of our first FT we spent $40k on maint. and repairs - lots of doe.
Good luck. Please keep us in the loop. ;D
If you would like to chat, PM me with your phone number and a convenient time to talk.
Thirty year ago flashback: shopping for an American Clipper, (coolest class c ever!) I couldn't get it to take water into the tank. The owner pointed out the fact that "Once the tank's full, that's it!"
My guess is the problem has a few possibilities: Maybe the sensor for "fullness" is shot or not reporting correctly. So, it may have filled completely while showing false levels. Next, the latching valve (allows water to flow into tanks) may have been pushed inadvertently and that would allow more flow to tank. Our latch switch is next to the pump and two light switches, so a newbie can always bump it by accident. Our latch switch light is dimmer than Congress, so the flow to tank might not be obvious if someone taps it.
My new water regiment includes a portable softener each filling. I disconnect hoses when the tanks looks 3/4 full. We run the pump when we are "home" and try to turn the little devil off when we leave our rig..
On our 2002 we had a Fill sensor that stopped the water fill function. On our 2001 we do not.
Sorry for your troubles. We certainly have had ours. I sure this won't help, and I don't mean to kick sand in your face. Being in the RV industry 55+ years, there is a saying. "So you have a RV, then you have a problem, you just don't know what it is yet".
As other's have said, this is not a life changing event, it's just part of owning a RV. Try to enjoy your trip, don't worry about the next thing that might or might not happen. Even when something happens, we all have your back.
One of the best parts of this sight. I have received much help here.
Chris
The water leaking has stopped. So it seems it was the fill valve. I have always used one of those blue water filters. I suppose I need to get a sediment setup. At one time this coach had a RO system. But was disconnected when we bought it. I can likely pull those and turn those canisters into a dual filter setup.
Even though I have managed to get myself into the Fore Forum penalty box a few times. The call for help with my issues has always been answered swiftly. So far the ONLY good part of my Foretravel experience has been the forum. I just don't like the fact that I have had to use it so much.
Read 116 times in two hours, that is why I love this forum and my FT. I hope the rest of your travels are "event" free, know you have a "team" with you.
Jerry, my coach is a "little bit" older than yours, like 10 years so everything in my coach is manual.
That being said, I had almost the same problem with water pouring out the overflow. Our coach is/was equipped with a rubber washered faucet and so I changed the rubber washer. Couple days later, while grilling outside, water started pouring out the overflow--AGAIN!!
So I went and installed an inline ball valve. No more overflow now.
Jerry,
Here is a link to a post that will help you out with your fill valve (with pics) as it can get trash or calcium inside and cause a problem. Your valve should be mounted just beside the water pump somewhat hid beside the heater core for that side of the bay. Water Fill Valve Issues (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=32695.msg293916#msg293916)
Mike
My fill valve jammed open from being turned on by accident with no water flowing through it, over heated, plus the relay would not disconnect. Cut wire at valve. Cooled off. Replaced relay. Rewired switch. Worked fine ever since.
First, dry the wet bay area very well. If not, it will degrade your rear bulkhead.
Two ways water can fill the fresh water tank unintendedly:
1. Fill valve malfunction.
2. Check valve in water pump defective.
As others have said, many many of us only connect to city water to fill the tank. We always did that so that tank water is always fresh.
Jerry, I am sorry you are having a problem. Sure sounds like the fill valve to me. You coach is about 20 yrs old. Stuff happens to your coach and to everyone else's coach too. Stay calm, ask for some help as you did, figure it out, fix it or devise a work around. Resume having fun.
Once you get it fixed here is a simple way to shut off the water filling the tank if you have an electric fill valve.
Water Fill Valve Auto Shut-off (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=32334.0)
Here is a way to automatically shut off the water pump when it is not in use.
Water Pump Timer Automatically Switches Pump Off (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=30564.0)
Like many we are dedicated tank and pump users. We may fill the fresh tank and then use the city water hookup for a shower but then it is disconnected.
Keeping everything but water (and maybe some sanitizer) out of your fresh water system is hard to do sometimes. You never know what kinds of sediment, rust bits, and other junk might be in the incoming water. This filter traps most everything you can see and is a convenient place to add disinfectant. We also use another pair of filters for organic stuff and a much finer particulate filter like Scott mentioned.
Fresh Water Fill Valve (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=25311.msg200075#msg200075)
Thanks Mike. That will help when we return to Walla Walla.
The plumbing in an RV would never pass code for a house and after being in motion for thousands of miles, it's even more likely to fail. So, like Roger, we use our tank and pump exclusively. You can pour a bit of sanitizer into your supply hose when you fill the tank (tip from another member). We would never even think about leaving the coach with a city water line connected. We do filter the water as it enters the tank.
Pierce
I had a problem with the fill valve one time. I tried, under city water pressure, turning the fill valve on and off severals times, and problem went away. I suspected dirt or something in valve. May not be your problem, but it worked for me.
I always use a sediment and a charcoal filter, to keep rust and sand etc out of my system.
We do the same as Pierce mentioned. We also never leave the sewer hose connected....only when dumping.
Say that you are connected to city water and while you are away or during the night, the coach deveiops a leak. Water will quickly find it'sway to the basement and then through holes into the area between the basement floor and the bottom plastic layer. This puts the bulkheads at risk plus all the unprotected subframe steel tubing. Once there, how do you get the water out?
Pierce
Drill ?
Not sure if foam is open or closed cell. Anyone with experience?
P
Yes, we ave experience with that.
Soon after buying our 03 U320 we were at camp Foretravel to have our roof recoated. Not mowing any better we had hooked up to the city water thinking that's what you do.
Sunday morning we went to town for breakfast and did not shut off the water spigot. We got a call from another forum member about two hours later saying we should get back to our coach as there was water pouring out of all our bays!!! They did shut off the water for us.
What a sight it was for us to see about 20 people standing around our coach watching water drip from the bays and running down to the drain! I did see a few smirks amongst the crowd as we opened our door to see what had happened. At first we thought the front carpet was ok but on the first step on it water squirted out from underfoot. Upon further inspection, water had filled the entire coach from front to back and side to side.
The cause for our internal leak turned out to be the circuit board for the Thetford toilet had malfunctioned and kept flushing the toilet over and over endlessly until I pulled the fuse. We had dumped the day before so the black tank was empty at the time, so if we had been using just our water tank and not city water, there would of been a good chance that whatever water we had in the fresh water tank would of fit into the black tank and not flooded the inside of the coach. Of course the pump and toilet valve would of still been cycling on and off but we wouldn't have any water damage.
The moral of this story is.... if you use city water and leave it on, you risk the chance of having a toilet malfunction or pet pipe come loose inside the coach and cause a lot of damage that could have been avoided by just using your water tank and shutting off the pump when you leave the coach.
That's my story, nd I'm sticking to it.
This might be a dumb question but when using fresh water tank, can you leave the pump switch on all the time. Or do you only turn it on when using water??
Bob would go out and turn off the water supply just in case we sprang a leak overnight. (Nothing worse than waking up in the morning, swinging your legs out of bed into a pool of water!) So I gently suggested that he might want to put a switch inside the coach that could turn off the water thus sparing him the task of climbing in and out of the coach each night. We bought a pilot operated solenoid valve online and located it at the inlet of the water filter/softener. He installed a switch in the bedroom and at the exit stairs utilizing a common relay. Both have green LED's so that we could see if the water was left on before climbing into bed. The total cost of the project ran @ 50.00. Now with just a flip of the switch, the water is secure and we can sleep easy ;D
That was seven years ago,
Faith
I leave it on all the time except when we are away from the coach. Always (almost) turn it off just before leaving.
jor
You can use the pump switch while it's filling but the pressure is real low until you turn off the fill Valve
I installed a direct fill, no more turning valves under the sink and making sure the water pump switch is off. Tank fills in 10-15 min. We turn off the water source at night and when away from the coach
We make it a policy to shut off the water pump and the water heater when we leave the coach. Around meal times, the pump is usually left on. With it off, there is still plenty of water available from the pressure tank.
Pierce
I leave mine on all the time But I am confident in all my plumbing. I have been all through it.
Tony, if you leave the pump on and there is a leak (even in your trusted plumbing) you can pump the fresh tank ful of water to whereever the leak is. At the very least shut the pump off when you are not in the coach. I added a simple programmable timer to the water pump circuit to shut off the pump for us in case we forget.
A major water leak inside the coach is a unnecessary, messy and likely expensive repair.
won't hurt a thing if you leave it on all the time........ UNLESS........ your plumbing develops a leak......... then it may hurt your feelings.
We leave ours on while in the coach and turn it off when we lock the door to leave.
I leave it on except:
When not in the coach
When dry camping and trying to conserve battery (the relay at least on older models) takes a small amount of power. Newer models may have latching relays that do not take power even when pump off.
I understand the frustration of having major issues that seem to arrive as if on an endless line of train cars. When it happens on the heals of something I just resolved, I tell Kristi "I hate this coach and want to get rid of it!" We bought our coach that was "in excellent condition" just over two years ago and have spent close to $30,000 for repairs and maintenance since then, with me doing much of the work. After cooling my heels for a while, I think about everything we experienced because we have an RV that would not have happened with a car and hotel rooms. We also met people and had conversations which only seem to happen at campgrounds. Most importantly, we get to sleep in our own bed and don't have to worry if Lacy would be welcome.
We used to have a Safari and it had its share of issues. The only thing I miss about it is the Safari community and individuals that were on their blog. It was like moving from one neighborhood to another. The Foretravel put us into another league with regard to costs and complexity, but I like not having to hang on to the steering wheel every time I see a semi approaching from the other direction and I like not having a rear radiator. I also like not being woken up in the night every time the furnace kicks on and not having to worry about having enough hot water.
I should add that I miss the utility bay from the Safari. The fuel filters, dip sticks, hydraulic reservoir, remote start and gauges were in one compartment and easy to access.
On our last outing I couldn't understand why our pump (under the couch where I was sitting) would cycle every 2 minutes 10 seconds. I actually sat there and timed the pump! I then went up front and turned on the monitor. It showed the fresh water tank down to 1/4 full!! Night before it was 3/4.
This warranted some investigation immediately!! I went out and walked around our coach and found water pouring out behind the driver's side duals. Went inside, shut off the pump, back outside on a tarp under the coach. Saw only one wet point. The short fill hose I hook up shore water to. WOW, relief!! Not broken plumbing under the tub--which is in the other side of the wall.
Bad thing: the backflow preventor we bought last year wasn't working.
Good thing: I had a shutoff hose valve. Installed it and leak was gone.
New problem? Needed to get the tank filled. We took our (3) six gallon jugs up to the bubbler in the CG and filled them from the faucet on the side.
Back to the coach, open the little compartment door in front of the driver, pulled out the 3/4" dia milkhouse hose, turned on the 12V pump and transferred 18 gallons to the fresh water tank. Repeated this until dash monitor read full.
I like your direct fill and the way you supported it from above. What was your source for the actual tank fitting? Going to move it way up on my endless to do list.
Pierce
Pierce, Amazon search "Uniseal" you can get them from 1/2"on up cheap.
Thanks! They are cheap.
P
Thanks for the PM's I received. Was actually a bit taken aback that many folks 'off line' agree with and share my frustration with these 'well built' coaches.
The leak has gone away. Looks like a fill valve rebuild is in order and doesn't look to be a PITA. So that's nice.
They are well built coaches. Some may have not been maintained and kept that way. Just imagine, you could have bought a Winnebago.
l bought a bag of 5 3/4" ones, maybe someone down at Q may want one.
Mods. Could you split and move this to the appropriate area (Foretravel discussions) as it has wondered off topic. Not sure how to do it and not mess up the coverage of the original issue.
Thanks in advance
Yes. I agree that we still like the RV experience of having our own bed, food and such. So we will stick with it. But that doesn't mean I'm going to be a FT fan boy that refuses to say what needs to be said about a crappy design aspect of a FT. I'm not the sort that calls dog poo on the sidewalk a Rose.
That's why bus conversions are great but also with their drawbacks. While the chassis is first class and designed to go millions of miles, the interior is usually awful in DIY conversions and way over the top Vegas in others. They only need a poll dancer to complete the effect
While Fore had great interior designs and chose good running gear, putting it all together could not be done correctly without the experience of a company with years of experience and feedback from bus/tour companies.
My 4107 bus had an outstanding shop manual detailing just how to accomplish all maintenance as well as a parts manual with detailed drawings with every nut and bolt identified as to the size, thread, etc. etc. Working on it was EZ.
So, yes, I'm frequently disappointed as I work on our coach and often wonder "why in the world did they do it this way." It's sort of like owning a Jaguar or an Italian car. Love it for the way it looks and feels, hate it when some stupid design flaw bites you for major coinage.
Just be thankful that Foretravel or any other RV manufacture doesn't build the airliners we fly in. The railroads would make a quick comeback.
Pierce
Most US manufactures in the 90s knew how to do things and did not value Quality practices such as FMEAs, Quality of Design, or Cross Functional Teams. These practices could have identified some of the problems that we encounter today. It was a classic case of "We don't know what we don't know" and many manufacturers were not interested in "complicating" their processes by asking the question: "What If". Many were not interested in Problem Analysis and Corrective/Preventive Actions and did not take Customer Complaints seriously. Rejects were OK if under 3%. I think many of the things that we scratch our heads about today could have been designed into or out of the product(s) if they asked: "What If". Six Sigma and ISO were largely unknown in those days, and what was known, many in manufacturing were not interested unless it was a Customer Requirement.
As a Quality Engineer, during those days, I was often in touch with Sales, Purchasing and Operations personnel that did not like change and could not see that product improvements and failure analysis/prevention would add monies to the bottom line faster than the new gizmo that sparkled in the light that hopefully spurred sales. Many manufacturers preferred Shooting From the Hip. Short and Long Term planning were primarily financial and had little to do with the Quality of the product or design.
The Japanese adopted Edward Deming"s Total Quality Management concepts. From these Quality practices we now have Honda, Toyota, Samsung, Sony among others. Many in the US aeronautical and Tech industries saw value and adopted them as well. US automotive was just getting their toes wet in those days.
Foretravel did some wonderful stuff, other stuff they could have done better.
We do have a choice. Mine is a FT. Maybe not the best but better than most.
Sorry for the diatribe.
Taking it all into account, I cannot imagine a better choice than my 2003 Foretravel coach. All makes and models have issues, but I'll take FT over the others.
I'm happy with a coach that was built when C.M.Fore would opt for the best systems available, regardless of cost. I'm happy with a coach where factory records and tech advice are still available, with no intervening lapses due to bankrupts. Although FT never had the engineering staff of a Genrral Motors, or even Prevost, they still came up with industry leading and rarely copied mechanicals, including outboard air bags, disk brakes all around, and the Allison retarder.
I have a friend with a 2008 Monaco. He brags about the eight air bags (copied from FT) and air leveling. But rarely comments on how much time it is in for repair, about the discontinuity in factory support, and the tiny water and waste tanks and minuscule battery tank. And he is still dealing with design flaws, mostly with getting heat out of the engine compartment.
I feel your pain.
The truth is, these old beasts have many systems, with lots of interlocking parts that fail. Its a given that they will. Expect it to.
The other issue is, past owners messed with these systems and now your dealing with that.
Best thing is to know your system over time and plan for how it can be improved. Know that using city pressure water is asking for trouble. Fill your tank and use it from there.
Seriously, water coming from the overflow is no big deal, although I am sure it was when you found it. Easy to fix.
But some of these systems can be very expensive to repair. They are quite complicated although not the move complicated out there. Its part of the joy/pain of ownership. Same as when I had a sailboat. Can get quite expensive. Stay on top of it if you can. Keep a good attitude about it. Know that on older coaches it can cost a bit to keep it up.
Bob
Murphy's Law applies to anything, even these fantastic coaches.
Try fixing an "ultralite" labeled trailer sometime. Know why it is labeled"ultralite"? Because quality was skimped on almost everything except bling in order to reduce weight.
Take the Winnebago tour sometime and see how the wood sides are fastened in place.
Glue. Didn't see any metal framework for the sides or roof.
Their philosophy? Must be designed to flex when going down the road.
Foretravel frames are rigid. At least the Foretravel frames provide some protection for you and your loved one(s).
When we bought our '89 Foretravel GV there was a 1990 Winnebago class A on the same lot. About same length. The Winnebago gas coach sold for $4,000. Our coach was $19,500. We bought the GV. Quality in design & workmanship & materials last.
All the appliances are pretty much the same.
Go ahead and repair things on your coach and the value stays high. Repair SOB and the value still goes down quickly. Why? Because the design, quality, and workmanship start showing their shortcomings and flaws. The cheap fabric shreds. The color and style of the interior become quickly outdated. The "bling" that got the coach sold has "blung".
Go ahead, tour some of the other brands of the same year as your coach. Feel the fabrics, lean on the walls, try the drawers and closet doors. Then try to imagine spending all your time in one of those coaches. You will still encounter problems but have to live with an inferior product.
Enough rant. Done.
I feel better putting coach bucks into my 1998 FT then having to deal with a new SOB that has to be in the shop for warranty work. The down side to paying out for repairs is being ripped off by certain service companies.
I would like to see the forum members to rate the service they receive. I will start with FT B+, MOT B+, Bern'd F.
Did as you suggested. But only that one post went over to the new area. What of the posts after where the off topic stuff started?
Sorry, not possible to move individual posts from one thread to another.
So, I deleted some of the "way off topic" posts.
Please go here to comment on "Design flaw or did FT not care. Split from 'call for help":
Design flaw or did FT not care. Split from 'call for help' (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=35150.0)
And, let's stick with the original topic on this one.
Thanks.
A critical factor in all our discussions about cost versus quality is in the owner's perspective. If you bought your coach for $450K or $750K, a $10,000 repair may feel uncomfortable but not impoverished. But if you bought a coach that was $450K new, but you paid $45k 20 years later, that same $10,000 repair looks immense. Nevertheless, that $450K coach is made up of components that cost far more in today's prices.
When forum members talk about Foretravels being better built than SOBs, are they talking about the bulkheads that rust and break loose from the other chassis parts, the delaminated slides, the rear caps that crack at the seams, the endless air operated component failures, the roof that rots under the pad by the ladder, the slide bladder failures? Or are they talking about the leather seating, the tile floors, the corian counter tops, etc. I think that some forum members are confusing build quality with quality materials and components. Foretravels are fine machines, right up there with Newels and Prevosts. But build quality is overstated. And so is the maintenance received at Foretravel.
Our coach came with blue shag carpeting and parquet flooring in the kitchen area. Even the bathroom had shag carpet!! The carpet was one piece that went up to and then around the toilet. Apparently the toilet was already in place so the carpet was split to go around the toilet and then the installer "very nicely" held the carpet up to the back wall (that comes down to about even with the back of the toilet) and then stapled it in place. Guess no one thought about putting a removable panel there? Nothing to work on behind that carpet. Rocket was able to get between the two halves of the carpet and then go exploring in the cabinets and passageways. Had one hell of a time getting him out. Even now he tries to get in the bathroom cabinet in order to continue his exploration.
When we removed the carpet I made a panel that mounts behind the toilet. Rocket was very unhappy about that.
ITG , As far as being better built than the SOB's your points are of course valid as far as Foretravel built versus theirs being perfect in hindsight.
As far as I know all the current rv's other than busses and Newell's have the carpeting under the cabinets. Stops the squeaks. Allows for major dimensional mis alignments during production to not be as visible as the cabinets only have to match the interior height at the ceiling not the floor. Less expensive coaches add a gimp molding at the ceiling to cover the gaps there plus are built over carpet.
Much safer inside a Foretravel welded on all four sides tubing steel frame that is reinforced by vacuum bagged inner and outer layers versus loose hung aluminum skins with loose fiberglass batten between non welded aluminum framing. Watch the Cornerstone "how it's made" type video.
In case Foretravel was wrong about the structure the sub assemblies are bolted together not welded one piece.
As has happened the sub assemblies can and have been unbolted from each other and repaired and reinstalled. Can you imagine how you would fix any damage or rusting on a welded one piece structure.
Almost all coaches had the air and fuel lines bundled against the inside of one frame rail on chassis coaches.
Non replaceable. Abandon in place. Try to run a new fuel system through the compartments.
Wooden floors. Two pieces of 5/8" chipboard. Tar paper in between. Versus a vacuum bonded steel framed foam insulated floor structure.
Plumbing and electrical line, heater hoses, fuel lines and such are in the "run" under the floor accessible from the compartments by dropping down the galvanized covers.
Foretravel almost went out of business by not building slides as they knew the structural strength would be problematic by poking the large holes needed through their stressed structure sidewall with the reinforcing angle pieces visible in the walls on moist cool days.
Plus they and all the older bonded wall coaches refused to paint the body in dark colors over large areas.
Makes the sides come apart unless you do not laminate them.
All the older high line coaches were pastel painted for increased reliability and less heat gain.
If you paint it it's more damageable if tree branches and such scrape the sides. Like a rv might run across versus a painted tender metal skin "park" model.
Customers demanded slides and paint. The entire industry has issues because of both.
Most coaches do not have bladder seals. Just a flange seal. How many coaches has everyone seen that have slide rooms not flush with their body shells? Lots.
Most coaches do not have roof ladders. You really would not want to walk on most SOB's soft roofs.
My point is the customers demanded features and paint jobs that hurt the reliability and temp controls inherent in the old unihomes and unicoaches.
Plus front doors. All the older coaches had mid entries for a reason.
Co pilot area is not as nice to ride or use with front doors. Long walk in the coach to get the grandkids pictures.
Front corner awning arms can make a wind noise.
On top of all this Foretravel is very close to perfect on weight distribution. Most SOB's are way off left to right. Coach goes through dips crooked. One side drops more than the other. Same shocks both sides.
As was stated by the 08 Monaco owner most rv's have wiring issues we do not have. Lots of numbered wires. Lots of green ground wires. No flickering lights when others are turned on or off.
Look in a Monaco product. The wooden cabinet doors wood is set vertical inside the frames and have large shading differences of the wood color in the same door. Versus horizontal closely matched in color wood.
Foretravel cabinet pieces were machined not sanded. Much tighter dimensional tolerances. Anyone had a cabinet come apart?
Our 97 was almost abandoned out of doors for many years in Pheonix when a former owner ran out of money.
No damage other than window seals. Do not try this with most .sob's.
Notice the lack of formaldehyde odors in your coach? Walk into a closed up in a hot area SOB. Most will make your eyes water from the chemicals in the construction.
How many other 20 to 30 year old rv's are still around?
As of today, RV trader has over 900 other Class A rv's 20 years old or older advertised.
Reply #58 – 12 hours ago
"When forum members talk about Foretravels being better built than SOB's" Given time, budget, and luck I am not saying you cannot find a better RV. I am saying in my many years around the wholesale and retail RV industry FT is an amazingly good buy. I knew the design criteria before I bought one, since last years purchase, as I update some things and perform routine maintenance, I continually come across design criteria that exceed my expectations. As Ca Bob stated, take a look at the industry, no forum members are with carefree coaches, some may experience more than a fair share of issues. Given the choices, I am so glad someone took care of my FT for the years before me. Also, just to mention the previous owner of mine, when asked to please tell me what other issues he had in the two years he owned it, and what he did as far as maintenance, he truthfully told me none. I again said, no, I own it now, what issues. He said none. Am I impressed by FT, absolutely. Do I sympathize with those having major issues, yes. I am thankful to "all" those that participate in the forum, yes I do. Their issues today can be ours tomorrow.
Did a search on RV trader (https://www.rvtrader.com/rvs-for-sale?type=Class%20A%7C198067&condition=U&year=1988%3A1998&length=38%3A42&fuelType=diesel)
1988 to 1998 class A diesel pusher 38-42 feet and found 95 matches. 1 is a foretravel. All are I guarantee old coaches with problems, either now or shortly waiting to spring up on you after you buy ( you buy you buy!!) I plugged those parameters in because thats what we are talking about, and to go over 1998 would have to do a different search. Average price is $41K. Not to many there I would want. The prevost's are over $100K and look like someones idea of Las Vegas in a coach to me... although the 1994 liberty prevost is nice. But at $99K over priced imo. I got pretty much the same coach for a lot less. Sure it needs stuff. Ongoing maintenance and deferred maintenance too. In the end I will probably have close to 100K in but it will be a good coach to last me hopefully 10 years and many 100000 of miles. Don't really know what a new 40 foot foretravel costs. Don't care. I know that in 1999 mine cost 450K plus tax and other stuff. I paid just over 10% of that and will be in for around 25% of it.
If I had went with a sailboat, same thing. Buy new and get hosed, or go used and pay up for upgrades and to fix all the dumb mistakes the po's did. Same/same. Technomadia recently said that they though a boat was more expensive than their old bus conversion. Maybe. But I doubt that. If they had gone with a reasonably sized sailboat costs would have been less. But still you will pay out the nose. You might think its great when you buy it, but pretty soon shit happens. Some of those things can get pretty expensive like a new engine, new sails, mast, rigging... all of it will be needing replacement after some years, just like our coaches. Only instead of a mast, you have tires. Instead of a 50 hp engine you have a 450 hp. (more bucks yea!!) The sun tears each of them up , but try parking a sailboat in the shade. yeah right, that's called night. Over time everything on deck will get eaten up by salt, wind, rain and sun. Same as our coaches, except you can put a coach in the shade.
I really hope my costs stay lower... but its good to know that if my $15K aqua hot goes on the blink, I can repair it.
Most everything else if fixable. I might paint it one day, or save that money for the major upgrades that I hope to never have, like a new transmission or engine....
Its all a trade off. You can just stay home and travel with a airplane. Now that would be roughly 8-12 cents per mile, each. But when you get there, figure on hotels, 100-300 per night, eating out.... etc. So if your traveling in the US, Mexico and Canada, the RV is a pretty cost effective why to do that, PROVIDED you do it alot. If its once a year and you let the thing sit the rest of the time, its gonna cost you. As they say, the best way to keep these babies working good, it to use them.
I get that when first thinking about these, its easy to figure that it won't cost much, but then reality sets in. I had a similar feeling when I brought it home. Barely fit in the driveway. Found issues that I wasn't sure how to fix or address. And the list multiplied as the months went by. Now my front AC unit stopped working. Change out perfectly good fuel hose, except it wasn't fuel hose. Bose stereo quit working, other stuff too. Its all good man. Was going to replace the ac anyway. The bose was going out the window too.
The hose pissed me off a bit, but roll with it. New shocks needed. I have a 10K list of things to do this winter. All planned. All needed. Coach will be better because of it.
Bob
Ever consider just how many parts there are in a coach? How many components that are dependent on each other?
And as owners we expect everything to work 100% for years?
Murphy doesn't exist?
Things don't wear out?
Things don't come loose?
Stuff doesn't break?
We don't neglect or unintentionally maintain something?
A previous owner wasn't savvy about his/your coach so now somebody has to "Pay The Piper". And it is the subsequent owners.
Love ir
I think this thread has gone way off course from my original post. Which ended up being a sticky fill valve.
That's why I started a new thread on the basic design of the wet bay system being over the uncoated bulkhead structure.
Design flaw? (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=35150.0)
I was talking with the owner of our Park about your problems with the coach. He was so moved, he told me to offer you a overnight site, FOR FREE!
Wow,
What a generous guy!
Now all I need to do is haul my carcass down there and take him up on his very generous offer. Although I would pay him for all the nights we stayed. That's his livelihood and I would feel bad for not paying.