Foretravel Motorhome Forums => Foretravel Tech Talk => Topic started by: floridarandy on September 28, 2018, 11:51:47 pm
Title: Running Propane Devices On the Road
Post by: floridarandy on September 28, 2018, 11:51:47 pm
Maybe a dumb question but we obviously run down the road with propane firing our refrigerator. But what about running down the road with propane water heater and/or furnace? Can all propane devices be safely used underway?
Thanks
Title: Re: Running Propane Devices On the Road
Post by: Roland Begin on September 29, 2018, 12:33:24 am
Actually you shouldn't run any propane appliances while going down the road. Safer to have the propane shut off at the tank. As for the hot water, on our coach the hot water is heated by the engine coolant don't know if yours is set up the same way.
That being said that's not what I do. Propane keeps the refrigerator cool while going down the road. If it is so cold that I need extra heat in the coach I run my ventless heater. However if I am in that kind of cold I really screwed up. You may get as many views on this as there are Forum members. DWMYH.
Roland
Title: Re: Running Propane Devices On the Road
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on September 29, 2018, 01:12:32 am
Only turn tank valve off when filling. Use all propane appliances when under way.
P
Title: Re: Running Propane Devices On the Road
Post by: FourTravelers on September 29, 2018, 08:12:28 am
Many opinions on this topic, many don't trust gas fridges while parked or traveling.
Rv manufacturers will likely tell you that RV's are designed to run the gas appliances while traveling.
What do we do? We run the refrigerator on gas the whole time while traveling and the gas furnace if needed (seldom). I always make sure the gas water heater is turned off, it has trouble staying lit while camping if its a very windy day. So.... we don't leave it on while traveling and with the motoraide heat option ......... don't need to. My opinion.....worth what you just paid for it..... ;D
Title: Re: Running Propane Devices On the Road
Post by: wolfe10 on September 29, 2018, 08:49:43 am
Your propane devices were designed to be used while both stationary and on the road.
Is it safer to not use them? Even turn propane off at the tank? YES, but we are talking about those 1/100,000+ risk factors.
You have to evaluate the risk/reward for yourself.
Likely you would be at higher risk of food poisoning from high refrigerator temperatures than a problem with the propane system.
Does anyone even recall an issue posted on the ForeForum about a problem caused by using a propane appliance while driving???
Title: Re: Running Propane Devices On the Road
Post by: DavidS on September 29, 2018, 01:29:26 pm
upgrade your coach to all electric and run the generator. Safer in some circles..
I think I might have read a story or maybe it was said st the fire late at night in a remote place I have never been.. went something like this..
my cousin vinny's uncles grandfather was walking his dog down the alley when he ran into a guys selling shoes.. he told him of his friends neighbors car that ran on water that had ran into a motor home that was all propane propulsion .. when the two collided there was a massive fire ball that gave everyone a suntan in the middle of the night.
Run the propane !!
Title: Re: Running Propane Devices On the Road
Post by: Eric Rudolph on September 29, 2018, 01:44:22 pm
I also run propane while driving. I do have 2 safety devices built in by the Refrigerator compartment (out side) One is an automatic (Heat sensor) Fire Extinguisher in the compartment where the heating element is (propane flame) The second is ARP device that will shut the refrigerator element (electric or propane) off if gets too hot. (it will turn back on when unit cools) Such as off level etc. Get the Fridge Defend - be COOL be SAFE! (https://www.arprv.com/index.php)
Title: Re: Running Propane Devices On the Road
Post by: Jeff & Sandy on September 29, 2018, 01:53:48 pm
Eric, which fire extinguisher are you using in the fridge compartment?
Title: Re: Running Propane Devices On the Road
Post by: Eric Rudolph on September 29, 2018, 03:15:52 pm
I have had mine for some time. The name is Fight Fire but the web site does not work. I got mine from Mac the Fire Guy. His website seems not to be working. I searched and found that West Marine lists some Automatic Discharge Fire Extinguishers. FIREBOY-XINTEX CG2 Automatic Discharge Fire Extinguishers | West Marine (https://www.westmarine.com/buy/fireboy-xintex--cg2-automatic-discharge-fire-extinguisher-25-cu-ft-1-1-lb-agent-weight--P017271404?pCode=17271404&mrkgcl=481&mrkgadid=3280891156&cm_mmc=PS-_-Google-_-GSC%3ENonB%3EProduct%2520Type-_-17271404&product_id=17271404&adpos=1o2&creative=108421552804&device=c&matchtype=&network=s&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI6sm99fHg3QIVGHZeCh0OUQ1LEAYYAiABEgKU2PD_BwE) Also I searched and found some on ebay. Halon Ss-30 Fire Extinguisher Automatically Deploy 90 Degree Head | eBay (https://www.ebay.com/p/Halon-Ss-30-Fire-Extinguisher-Automatically-Deploy-90-Degree-Head/1831342311?iid=390523881908&chn=ps#ProductDetails) More expensive than when I bought mine. But mine was marked SS30 Fire Extinguisher with Halon 1211 Halon Ss-30 Fire Extinguisher Automatically Deploy 90 Degree Head
Title: Re: Running Propane Devices On the Road
Post by: Jeff & Sandy on September 29, 2018, 06:41:49 pm
Thank you Eric.
Title: Re: Running Propane Devices On the Road
Post by: John Morales on September 29, 2018, 10:16:20 pm
If not mistaken, the engine should heat the water while on the road. Mine does. If yours doesn't you might have valves shutting off the flow from the engine. John M.
Title: Re: Running Propane Devices On the Road
Post by: FourTravelers on September 30, 2018, 09:01:53 am
I have ordered the ARP Fridge Defend for our Dometic absorption refrigerator (as recommended by members on this forum) switching to a residential fridge just isn't a practical option for us as we boondock about 90% of the time. We operate ours on propane from the time we leave on a trip until we plug back in to shore power when we return home. I do use the HWH level every time we stop even if at a rest area for a few minutes. unfortunately the HWH doesn't keep us level while traveling .... ??? ..... (maybe HWH should work on this in their next revision) ^.^d
So.......... hoping that the addition of this device along with do diligence to keep the fridge level and clear of any obstructions to the air flow in the flume, will result in one less worry while using a propane appliance while traveling.
Title: Re: Running Propane Devices On the Road
Post by: Jeff & Sandy on September 30, 2018, 09:05:54 am
FT, installing a 12v muffin fan as part of your ARP unit, in the vent above the fridge really helps.
Title: Re: Running Propane Devices On the Road
Post by: FourTravelers on September 30, 2018, 09:11:33 am
I have ordered the ARP Fridge Defend for our Dometic absorption refrigerator (as recommended by members on this forum).
So.......... hoping that the addition of this device along with do diligence to keep the fridge level and clear of any obstructions to the air flow in the flume, will result in one less worry while using a propane appliance while traveling.
Your ARP device will be a huge help in confining refrigerator operation to "only on level". What it does for a living is sense when boiler temperature rises (due to out of level) and temporarily turns it off. Back on when temperature drops.
People keep thinking that "out of level" just applies to while parked. It also applies to while driving! Climb one of those 4-5% grades out west for a number of miles, with the refrigerator on and you ARE operating out of level. It does not take long when operating out of level for boiler temperatures to soar.
At the product demonstration for ARP he has a cooling unit with temperature probe on it. He turns it on-- level. You can see boiler temperature on the screen behind him. He then puts a small board under one side to simulate out of level operation. You can watch the temperature shoot up. Engage on the ARP device and watch as it switches on/off/on to control boiler temperature.
Since high boiler temperature is what leads to clogged tubes and slowly kills the cooling ability, this one is a no-brainer.
Title: Re: Running Propane Devices On the Road
Post by: gracerace on September 30, 2018, 10:14:27 am
On the same subject, I always run my refer out of auto, in gas mode only until we park. Once on shore power, I put it on auto.I put it in auto, so I don't forget to switch back to LP. Or if the power goes out while gone. In my opinion, whenever one starts the gen set, it makes the refer switch to AC, then when you shut the gen off, the refer has that slight moment when the voltage drops. just the fact that I am making it switch back and forth for no reason bothers me.Control boards are temperamental and expensive.
Chris
Title: Re: Running Propane Devices On the Road
Post by: Caflashbob on September 30, 2018, 02:08:40 pm
If I am not mistaken I think my refer compartment has a dual 110 volt plug in it. One outlet is 110volt the other is inverter powered?
I suppose if I were driving in grades for that drive I could plug the refer in to the inverted outlet and turn on the inverter to power the refer or with a gang plug run both the refer and the ice maker compressor on our Dometic rm7832?
Versus ,44 gallons of diesel fuel used per hour. Maintenance and noise and smell.
Anyone know the power used. I think the refer has two 230 watt elements. Not sure of the ice maker side.
I think the oem power panel shows the amps used. If no other loads were present I would think that most of the Amps used would be the refer?
With my future additonal solar I might be able to basically run the refer off the batteries and solar. Anyone used a Dometic this way?
Title: Re: Running Propane Devices On the Road
Post by: gracerace on September 30, 2018, 02:17:39 pm
I suppose if I were driving in grades for that drive I could plug the refer in to the inverted outlet and turn on the inverter to power the refer or with a gang plug run both the refer and the ice maker compressor on our Dometic rm7832?
Bob That is still going to create the same heat as a flame. So that is not going to solve anything.
Per Dometic when I went to school (I asked this very question). It is not the heat that causes the issue, it's the bubbles in the ammonia (called "lock up") . This is caused by running the refer out of level while sitting still. Once the bubbles happen, the over heating happens.
When traveling, the constant movement stops the bubbles from creating.
There is no worry running a refer on LP while moving. It has a "three strikes your out" control board. If it doesn't relight after three tries, the board goes in lock out, and the gas valve is shut off. Same with your W/H,and heater
Chris
Title: Re: Running Propane Devices On the Road
Post by: Dakota Slim on September 30, 2018, 08:41:06 pm
I run my refrigerator on propane 24 x 7 no matter if I am on the road or not. Been doing it for 15 years in 2 coaches.
Title: Re: Running Propane Devices On the Road
Post by: Old phart phred on September 30, 2018, 08:44:23 pm
After the three strkes your out, is there a manual reset button i need to know about
Title: Re: Running Propane Devices On the Road
Post by: red tractor on September 30, 2018, 08:50:50 pm
No just turn the switch off and then back on and it will do the same 3 tries.
Title: Re: Running Propane Devices On the Road
Post by: Caflashbob on October 01, 2018, 02:36:16 pm
The amount of unlevel needed to form a bubble would seem to be quite a bit. Maybe more than normal interstates?
I have had many ancient propane refers removed and laid on their side to move the bubble along. Worked mostly.
Title: Re: Running Propane Devices On the Road
Post by: gracerace on October 01, 2018, 06:58:26 pm
The amount of unlevel needed to form a bubble would seem to be quite a bit. Maybe more than normal interstates?
I have had many ancient propane refers removed and laid on their side to move the bubble along. Worked mostly.
Yup, rolled a few on their side, then top, then back for a week. Started working again
Title: Re: Running Propane Devices On the Road
Post by: lew on October 01, 2018, 08:30:08 pm
The firefight products are at:
Fire Fight Products (http://www.firefightproducts.com/)
larry whisler
Title: Re: Running Propane Devices On the Road
Post by: RetiredGuns on January 07, 2019, 01:09:34 pm
I just discovered the Fridge Defender, when I was looking for a way to not only save the Fridge from Self Destructing, but all the Fires I see that were from Fridge related overheats! Seems to me, this should be Installed as a Safety Measure, Period! The price is a Little Salty, but so is the lack of such a device! It sure is a very good product, from what I see, and I'll be ordering one, if I cannot figure a Cheaper, yet as effective alternative!
I was on the track of using a device, such as this for a mere $31.00, that MAY do the same function, if I could find one that could operate in 12Vdc, mode? That would control both the AC and Gas Operation mode as well! Knowing the Proper Parameters, is also, needed, too! The Fridge Defender, does that, of course, but at a Premium. I may just spring for it, if an alternative isn't located? DIGITEN Digital Thermostat Outlet Controller Switch Simple-Stage Plug LCD... (https://www.amazon.com/DIGITEN-Thermostat-Controller-Simple-Stage-Temperature/dp/B079GWBQVZ/ref=pd_day0_hl_86_6?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B079GWBQVZ&pd_rd_r=42996005-1267-11e9-807c-e1951e12f6f2&pd_rd_w=PKnMq&pd_rd_wg=gESJZ&pf_rd_p=ad07871c-e646-4161-82c7-5ed0d4c85b07&pf_rd_r=X46A5WNK2EX89VVKTP0H&psc=1&refRID=X46A5WNK2EX89VVKTP0H)
I didn't see anyone post a link to the Fridge Defender, so here it is! So much info, and Vids, and a well constructed website, but Enormous info! Get the Fridge Defend - be COOL be SAFE! (https://www.arprv.com/index.php)
Title: Re: Running Propane Devices On the Road
Post by: RetiredGuns on January 07, 2019, 02:29:20 pm
Fire Fight Products (http://www.firefightproducts.com/)
larry whisler
Larry thank you SO Much for that link! I have put off buying a System, because they were Hideously expensive, up to $4K just to protect the Engine Compartment, and the side Radiator, and with what I purchased, it will ONLY cost me One Coach Buck! LOL!
The owner, Jim Bounds, spent nearly an hour on the phone with me, and Tailored, the System I am purchasing, I feel very Confident it will be sufficient, to NOT become a Fire Statistic! The Engine Compartment system has an Engine, Shutoff Feature, via a Sensor, to eliminate more Fuel, feeding the fire as well! I also bought 3 Hand Helds, for the Bedroom, and the Drivers area , and Kitchen Mounts! This system is easily transferable to other Applications I have as well! My 26' MacGregor PowerSailor, and Offroading Toys will be protected, by what I purchased, simply by moving both the Fixed and Portable Bottles to them! Then I also plan on utilizing them, in my House! I purchased a Dozen Visual Sensors as well, in 2 different temp readings! They turn a different color when exposed to heat within the ranges they are set up for!
I was going to go with a Halon System, but AFFF Foam is superior in every way! As having an Aeronautical Background, and Aerospace, the Foam is way superior for Extinguishing Fires, IMHO! I hated the 2 Big CO2 Bottles I now have, but something is better than nothing! With this system, and it's versatility, I will feel Very Confident, in every way! The CO2 Deployment Destroys everything it touches, and I also learned it can be deadly for animals nearby, as they can get Chemical Pneumonia, as can Humans if breathed enough of it!
Thanks again for the Link, as I have not found another Vendor/Manufacturer for this Quality Product! I was Sold, when I went to that link!
Title: Re: Running Propane Devices On the Road
Post by: RetiredGuns on January 07, 2019, 03:09:50 pm
Ooops, forgot about the Generator Compartment....called an added $400 Bucks + $65.00 for the Auto Fuel Shutoff Valve, to that order! Whew! He also Scientifically Explained the Difference between use of Halon, and the other Similar stuff, that this stuff just blows away! I have found many resources that back his claims up, as well! Halon and the other, new product like it, are good, don't get me wrong, this just has better properties that fits the use! Worth OUR lives, and a Must, IMHO!
Title: Re: Running Propane Devices On the Road
Post by: RetiredGuns on January 07, 2019, 03:28:08 pm
Another Consideration, is I am trying to design a System to Automatically Shut off LPG Appliances, that catch on fire, as well! I have a Catastrophic Leak System Pressure Sensitive Shutoff at the Source Tank, but it will feed Propane to a fire, as long as it likes, if the pressure remains constant! So, if anyone knows of a Packaged System, please advise! What I wanna do, is put these Valves in the five LP Consumer Appliances, and have them connected to a simple Sensor that you can get most anywhere for Temp Sensing Shutoffs for outdoor Barbeques! Some people may say I overthink stuff, and they are certainly correct! I have seen catastrophes with Fuel and Fires in my Professional life, that would make most cringe! I was also a Quality Assurance Representative, and did all kinds of evaluations to Prevent failures, particularly fires, which can easily be inherent around things that fly! And also things that roll! I was part of way too many Investigations and that old adage, of an Ounce of Prevention, is worth that pound of Cure, rings true!
Something like this was my thought, for a Do - It - Yourself System! As I go along, I will try and document, my install and Implementation of what I come up with! Of course I do not want to reinvent the wheel, and any advice, or Known Packed systems would be an option here, as well!
Title: Re: Running Propane Devices On the Road
Post by: kb0zke on January 07, 2019, 04:10:07 pm
Our hot water heater is really the only thing that uses propane. Our refrigerator is a residential one, so the generator is running to power it and the rooftop heat/air conditioner. The hot water heater is supposed to have some method of heating the water with engine heat, and there is, indeed, a valve that I assume handles that. I've not tried turning the valve, as I'm not sure what would happen if I did, but I suspect a leak.
I leave the propane on all the time and haven't had a problem. A tank lasts us 6-9 months.
Title: Re: Running Propane Devices On the Road
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on January 07, 2019, 05:56:04 pm
The hot water heater is supposed to have some method of heating the water with engine heat, and there is, indeed, a valve that I assume handles that. I've not tried turning the valve, as I'm not sure what would happen if I did, but I suspect a leak.
David,
Next time you drive your coach, at the end of the day, feel the hoses on both sides of that valve. You might find your valve is already in the "open" position (ie both hoses are hot). That is the way I found the (probably original) valve on our coach, when we first took possession. Like you, I did not try to reposition ours, for fear of causing a leak. But since ours is "stuck" in the open position, it does allow the engine coolant to circulate around the water heater tank, and it does heat the water going down the road. When we pull in from driving all day, our water is already very hot. After we get parked for the night, I either turn on our electric water heating element (if we have shore power), or the propane heat (if dry camping). Since the water is already pretty hot, neither one has much work to do.
If I ever need to replace our hot water heater, I will also replace the (probably) frozen valve at the same time.
Title: Re: Running Propane Devices On the Road
Post by: fkjohns6083 on January 07, 2019, 06:20:05 pm
I guess I need to do a little more home work on our rig. I have always thought that the Hot water by-pass valve did just that, in that with the valve open, the hot water going to the dash heater is by-passed around the hot water heater. To direct the flow thru the heater, you would shut the valve. I keep mine open all of the time and just use propane to heat the water. I prefer to get as much heat forward as I can. Guess it just boils down to where you need the heat. Have a great day ---- Fritz
Title: Re: Running Propane Devices On the Road
Post by: RetiredGuns on January 07, 2019, 06:40:47 pm
Our hot water heater is really the only thing that uses propane.. The hot water heater is supposed to have some method of heating the water with engine heat, and there is, indeed, a valve that I assume handles that. I've not tried turning the valve, as I'm not sure what would happen if I did, but I suspect a leak.
I leave the propane on all the time and haven't had a problem. A tank lasts us 6-9 months.
Yes, I have that Valve as well, and have not attempted fate, there either! LOL. If you ever get Subzero Temps, and need that Heater 24/7 It would only last a week, at least that's what I found! I like it warm, though, and tote 3 Different sized Heaters that are Electric, when hooked up to 50 Amp Service! I could use them with the Genny, but haven't done that as yet....might just be cheaper??? I have to fill again, soon, the Cheapest I have found it here in Central Ca. is $3.90 a Gallon!!!!! I'd like to crack the code on Propane Prices while traveling, also, as they sure don't advertise it! I will be in California, for a few months and heading South from Santa Barbara County (Lompoc) to San Diego County, and sure would like to know how I can pay less in transit, or SD County, but that seems like a Huge Chore, or nearly Impossible! Back home in PA, I did extensive research, and found a 60 Cent per gallon difference! That can be substantial, for sure! My coach has the Aquahot delete, and they can both a Blessing, or a Curse, or so I have heard?
Title: Re: Running Propane Devices On the Road
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on January 07, 2019, 09:08:00 pm
I have always thought that the Hot water by-pass valve did just that, in that with the valve open, the hot water going to the dash heater is by-passed around the hot water heater. To direct the flow thru the heater, you would shut the valve. I keep mine open all of the time and just use propane to heat the water. I prefer to get as much heat forward as I can.
Fritz,
The valve on our coach has a round paper tag attached to the (blue) handle. The tag says "close for max dash heat". From the extension of the valve stem, it looks to me like the valve is in the "open" position, and I have never tried to move it. As I said, our water gets very hot going down the road, without having either electric or propane turned on. I have always been happy with this arrangement, because we very seldom drive in extremely cold weather. The few times we have used it, our dash heater has always put out a LOT of heat...more than we would ever require.
As you say, different strokes for different folks. 8)
Title: Re: Running Propane Devices On the Road
Post by: RetiredGuns on January 07, 2019, 10:12:35 pm
Chuck! Wished my Bay was that clean looking! Very nice! So, what is that device on the Left (Rear) wall? Is it just a Thermometer, or does it have another Function?
Title: Re: Running Propane Devices On the Road
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on January 07, 2019, 11:36:01 pm
Remote temp sender. Have one in each end of the wet bay. Receiver is inside the coach.
Title: Re: Running Propane Devices On the Road
Post by: Don & Tys on January 08, 2019, 11:45:49 am
I was at Tractor Supply in Temecula (So Cal) a few weeks ago and propane was $2.49 a gallon... They told me that they fill coaches as well as bottles. Tractor Supplies are pretty widespread, might be worth checking out. I put two ball valves in the water heater coolant loop so it could be isolated for removal. I learned the hard way what happens when you close the single OEM valve and then remove the water heater without clamping off the other side of the loop! :o Doh! Don
Yes, I have that Valve as well, and have not attempted fate, there either! LOL. If you ever get Subzero Temps, and need that Heater 24/7 It would only last a week, at least that's what I found! I like it warm, though, and tote 3 Different sized Heaters that are Electric, when hooked up to 50 Amp Service! I could use them with the Genny, but haven't done that as yet....might just be cheaper??? I have to fill again, soon, the Cheapest I have found it here in Central Ca. is $3.90 a Gallon!!!!! I'd like to crack the code on Propane Prices while traveling, also, as they sure don't advertise it! I will be in California, for a few months and heading South from Santa Barbara County (Lompoc) to San Diego County, and sure would like to know how I can pay less in transit, or SD County, but that seems like a Huge Chore, or nearly Impossible! Back home in PA, I did extensive research, and found a 60 Cent per gallon difference! That can be substantial, for sure! My coach has the Aquahot delete, and they can both a Blessing, or a Curse, or so I have heard?
Title: Re: Running Propane Devices On the Road
Post by: RetiredGuns on January 08, 2019, 12:26:58 pm
I was at Tractor Supply in Temecula (So Cal) a few weeks ago and propane was $2.49 a gallon... They told me that they fill coaches as well as bottles. Tractor Supplies are pretty widespread, might be worth checking out. I put two ball valves in the water heater coolant loop so it could be isolated for removal. I learned the hard way what happens when you close the single OEM valve and then remove the water heater without clamping off the other side of the loop! :o Doh! Don
Thanks for that tip!!! The Propane Market is Insane! We have many friends we are Visiting in Temecula, as well! I will check locally for one either here in Santa Barbara County, on our way South, or get it in Temecula! I may also be staying either at a Good Friends place in Rural Vista, near SR 76, or On one of the Two Campgrounds aboard Camp Pendleton!