I talked to Bern'd yesterday about the Gates 19B Plantmaster hose and was told by him that the hose is the correct one, He even sent me a link were Gates confirms that it is the correct one. However, this is the email response from Gates:
I personal feel that there needs to be a joint action taken against this person.
Bernd replaced my hoses, I will check to see if he used this same hose on mine later today when I am at my coach
What does bernd not understand about the caution stating "NOT FOR CONSTANT CONTACT WITH FUELS",some people will
never admit they could be wrong no matter what the cost.
Sorry but that guy is a idiot. He put in the wrong hose in multiple coaches and is to dumb to know the difference?
I had mine in for 3 years and the smell of diesel permeating thru the hose was significant.
He also did the basement on my coach. 30K took 6 months to do it according to the po, and it's not a good job. I will have to redo it at some point. Anyone that thinks he is knowledgeable about these coaches, be my guest. But I wouldn't use him, nor be quiet about the jobs he did on my coach. I'm just glad it wasn't my money that he took.
Oh and btw, he put in much more hose and charged for it than the coach ever needed. That is robbery in my book. Also put in 3/4" when 5/8" was what was needed. Guess what he charged for?
Buyer beware.
I wish I was smart enough to put his imessage to the forum as it is in direct opposition to Gates official email. My plan is to offer him a chance to refund my fuel hose replacement; and then proceed. Now I am wondering if the air bags he replaced are the correct ones. I will call Gates later today and talk to someone there.
Maybe he figured you would get farther down the road with the larger hose and be too far away to come back.
What bothers me the most is that he will send me a chart that is suppose to be from Gates. That confirms the fuel line are the correct ones. In my book that borders on fraud. I also had airbags replaced and now I am concerned that they also are not for the intended use.
Think you can get a part number from the airbag and verify.
Good idea. I hope that more FT owners jump in to this discussion and there can start to be accountability in FT service. Just because one owns a FT does not mean; we should be exploited. I know that I was and it still leaves a bad taste. Rise up the silent majority and take back honesty and integrity in Foretravel service.
Seriously thinking of once we get settled in the Millington area of taking on some Foretravel repairs,could trade my work for your
expertise or just for hard cash.
I ended up changing the air bags myself, but I had been talking to Bernd about having him do it. I guess I was lucky ??? That said, I would say it is likely that Bernd gets them directly from Foretravel. If that is the case, then you probably got the right ones. The reason I didn't get him to replace mine was that Foretravel didn't have any in stock at the time. The things that would concern me is how he (or more likely, his minions...) accomplished the work. Did he reuse the air fittings, are there splices in the the air lines, are all the fasteners present and tight, etc. These items you should be able to verify by inspection, and at the same time check the part numbers on the bags. Also, were all the bags actually replaced? Look to see if any of them appear to be older... Best to raise coach to the max to be able to see the full length of the air bags to inspect. The bottom of the air bags are normally not visible when the coach is at ride height and the bottom of the bags is where the weathering usually shows up.
Back to the topic of the subject line, I hope you can get satisfaction on the fuel lines... you have empirical proof that he used the wrong material. If he has done many of these coaches with this stuff, he is probably looking at a major financial set back if was to fess up his mistake which is obvious motivation for being in denial. However, integrity requires that he face the facts. I hope he has it in him and can use this as a learning experience and will make good on all those who have been unwitting victims of his miscalculation. Good luck with this issue
Don
I looked up a supplier for the Gates hose and this is what I found
Gates 19B Plantmaster™ hose
19B Plantmaster™
Gates plantmaster hose for air and water transfer
Manufacturer: Gates
Specification No. 3219AR
Recommended for: Applications requiring a premium grade braided hose, with excellent flexibility and maximum resistance to air, water, petroleum oils, gasoline, kerosene and fuel oil (to 120°F) and lubricating oils (to 212°F). Excellent weather and ozone resistance. NOTE: Not recommended for constant contact with fuels.
Specifications:
Tube: Nitrile
Reinforcement: Braided, high tensile synthetic textile cord
Cover: Modified Nitrile
Color: Red
Temperature Range: -40°F to 212°F
Branding: Continuous ink print
Working Pressure: 250-500 PSI
Sizes (Inside Diameter): 3/16", 1/4", 5/16", 3/8", 1/2", 5/8", 3/4", 1", 1.25", 1 3/8", 1.5"
FEATURED PRODUCTS
From what I remember from other posts is that the shops sawzall the fittings off the old bags to save time,think Don has a point
if Bernd fesses up he'll be changing lines for a long time,if anyone needs any air hose cheap maybe check with bernd.
Just not that hard to find hoses that work well with diesel/biodiesel. Lots of good brands. Boat yards are one of the best resources. Use the phone and call around.
If you read the part number on the side of the bag, you can cross reference with other brands. No bad airbags out there that I'm aware of. Many millions of commercial use miles would eliminate them in a hurry. Unless they have severe corrosion, using a Sawzall to cut the fasteners is a crude way of removal. It's an easy job normally and anyone with DIY ability can do it.
Pierce
Does anyone know what the cost for fuel line replacement is at FT?
This is what Bern'd sent me as confirmation by Gates that the correct fuel lines were used.
See attached photos for Foretravel's fuel line replacement cost on our 36' U270 in late 2013. This was for complete replacement including generator and fuel cooler loop.
Don
In April 2015 Bernd replaced my fuel lines using NAPA Multi Purpose Hose ( Red). I just spent some time researching and find that this is a Gates Multi Purpose hose made in Mexico. I cannot find a specific part number but suspect it is the same Gates hose used in other coaches. I am not having any problems with these hoses so far, but am concerned about it. I chose to use Bernd for this work on recommendation from Paul on the forum. I did find mistakes made by the installers when they tested and told them I wanted Beau Reese to personally inspect every connection on the engine and generator fuel lines. I stayed with the coach as I live full time in it and they did correct the mistakes, no fuel leaks when running the engine and generator. So far, I am not having any problems with these hoses but am very concerned- paying close attention to this.
In reference to his business practices- they buried the costs for redoing the fuel lines, including taking the tank out again in my bill. We had some words, but I was not happy with being charged to correct mistakes his employees made. I usually do not like to say anything bad about someone, thinking it could have been an isolated incident. Apparently this is not the case as others seem to be having issues- buyer beware.
Certainly a fairly misleading page as it mentions applicability for transferring fuel without mentioning the prohibition against prolonged contact. A mistake any of us 'amateurs' might make, but not acceptable for an experienced professional. Perhaps that was an earlier catalog page before Gates had feedback from end users... Perhaps we are looking at a "HoseGate" if you know what I mean... :o A poor play on the Gates brand name, but perhaps the Gates corporation could shed some light on this issue. Was this particular product initially marketed as appropriate for fuel line where it would be constant contact with diesel (perhaps before biodiesel came on the scene). After all, lift pumps (and perhaps other fuel system components) on our coaches performed perfectly before biodiesel came out and needed to be replaced with updated parts.
Don
Central State Hose Inc. web site says: Gates 19B Plantmaster™ rubber hose assembly for compressed air and lubricating oil
How much more clear can it be? I think the Bern'd truth is out and it hurts; about time. I for one always appreciated all the valuable information that is shared by the forum members.
I know we can speculate forever but why did'nt he just go with what Foretravel used and have no problems?,he would have made the same profit.
Greed or ignorance! I would like to not the cost per foot of the hose FT uses verses air line hose.
If I get a chance this weekend will look up the cost that he charged Paul Smith, the PO's po on my coach. I know I have the receipt in the filing drawer but things have been moved around so it might take awhile, and I am still trying to correct the mistake Benrd did to my coach with the fuel line fiasco. Would be interesting to see how much he charged and for how many feet.
Truth is, in my book, there is no way that that shop could ever fix things right. They did the wrong thing, knew it, and won't stand behind their work, and even tried to pad the bill, not once but for everyone? Doubt anyone knows. But I know on the work he did on this coach, that it was beyond substandard, expensive and down right fraud.
If you have that hose in your coach, just pull the cover off the tank, or in the bay, run a rag over it, and smell. If you smell diesel your hose is not good.
As to the use of these hoses and Gates warning, I agree with Don. When did Gates discover the issue? Is there literature that does not warn of prolonged contact? What, when and how did they notify those they had sold them to as fuel compatible? Was there any type of "soft recall".
I raise this because there has been mention of taking action against his shop. There may be recourse for workmanship issues but liability on the hose used may be a different issue altogether. I dont know all the details but I do know this. If you are stating in a public forum that a business has committed fraud you better have your facts down cold.
I am as unhappy as anyone else as I have those same hoses. On the air side, I have had three shops comment on the quality of our coach. Just three weeks ago my mobile guy said he had never seen a tighter over the road system. Those were done at the same time. Who knows what issues may develop.
I am not defending Berndt or his shop and these are significant issues BUT there should be some discretion in making charges such as fraud before all the data is collected and you are ready to file. Just my thoughts.
Agree but think the fraud part may have been taking the 6 months to redo the basement,once they start you are at their mercy
whether they tell you it will take 2 weeks or 2 months.
So what you are saying is somehow try and find out when this caution was put in the brochure.
George,agree with your post but what is a tighter over the road system?
John I think he was addressing leak down and he could not find any leaks. He is primarily a truck guy so maybe it is not a valid comparison.
Let's say you want to retain counsel and they give you a best guess of what is required. You retain and through the process it turns out it was the manufacture. Now you have to enjoin them in the suit and you are now opposing both the small garage and a major corporation. Time and money.
As to fraud, I would disagree on the time element depending of course on circumstances. However, this is not something I am comfortable going into in further detail. I would not tell the many highly qualified folks on the forum how to perform more difficult processes. My hope for them is they do not rely on their own interpretations of the law without seeking advice.
As the philosopher Forrest Gump once said "That's all I have to say about that".
George I talked to Chris at Gate Inc. this AM, and was told the pages that I represented as being for air lines came from a 2013 catalog, so much for not knowing. It does no good to pursue legal action as the "statue of limitations" for me is expired. Fraud in Texas has a 4 year limitation.
All I am trying to do is help save another FT forum member from experiencing what I did at Bern'd. Do not let me make your decision, go to who you want. We are luck to have several choices, MOT, FT, Bern'd.
If they knew they were the wrong hose and put it in anyway, charging for it, its fraud in my book. I looked up the legal term and as usual, the lawyers sure know how to cover the butts of the people that need to get knocked in the head while the rest of us bear the weight of it all. fraud legalese (https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Fraud) But in this or any business, if you want to stay in business, and you do the wrong thing, you make up for your mistakes. Even if you didn't know the hose is the wrong hose, you own up to it, and correct it, even if it goes back several years. You messed up buddy, you fix it.
Now how do you explain putting in 20 feel of hose when 15 will do, and charging for it? How do you spin that?
How do you repair someone's basement, and not bond the outer and inner layers with the foam core ? How do you say the job will take 8 weeks and it takes twice that, and still do a poor job ?
Fraud, crook, dumb, incompetent, or just plain unlucky, either way, you go to a shop like that, that has done members on this forum with poor service, and you get what they give. And you pay for it. I for one, will fix it myself, never thought otherwise because I wouldn't let a shop like that EVER touch my coach. And if I read in these forums that someone is reliable trustworthy good people, I would go there. Buyer beware. Its your money, your coach, and possibly your life your putting in their hands. Now bad fuel lines might not be the end of the world for you, nor bonding a basement, but maybe they did your brake lines too... now that's a thought. Seriously if your a Foretraveler, and your not mad about something like this.... then I don't know what to say.
My advice, fix your own coach if you can.
Ok, so I found the receipt from Bernd dated 8-1-14 to Paul Smith. He replaced 8 airbags, antifreeze, 2 coolant hoses, 2 seal rings and fuel lines with fittings. adjusted valves and injectors, rebuilt aquahot pump unit.. Cost total $5585. of that materials were 2499 with fuel hoses at 675. Labor was 2880.
So cost to replace fuel lines was $675 + 1530 = $2205 usd plus tax. Receipt doesn't mention type of fuel lines, or amounts or sizes. At $110 per hour that is roughly 14 hours of work which when all is said and done, is a reasonable amount to pay to replace the fuel hoses by a shop. However, given that the fuel lines he used were not appropriate for their intended use, and I am now, 4 years later having to replace said hoses, then I would have to say that the price was to high.
Also noted that he charged Paul $195 Per airbag. Now I don't know what the going rate for them at that time was but a quick check online shows for a Firestone W01-358-9448 is $164.02 times that by 8 airbags, and then by how many coaches per year and you start to get into a nice little side income. Of course its always buyer beware and check prices, but then when you put your trust in someone that you think you know, and I believe Paul trusted him to do this and other things on his coach, and therefore the PO did as well, and you just have to shake your head at the whole thing. Guy is in the biz to make money no doubt about that, and I don't begrudge anyone to do that, but I think I can reasonably say, that no, I would not use him, nor recommend him, nor say anything good about his work.
As Forest Gump says, "and that's all I have to say about that!"
A $30.98 price difference? Markup to take care of handling costs, shipping, purchasing, billing, paying, overhead, and a small profit margin and I don't think the markup is out of line.
Pierce that is something that I think we all could agree on. I am in the health care biz, and am appalled at the costs. A real shame in the country to treat someones illness to make a profit. A huge one.
Sure their might not be a big markup per bag, but then you have 8 of them, then charge over $100 per hour... sorry I don't buy the whole I got costs. How many people here made $100 per hour in their work lives? You have a shop, have 3 guys working, and thats $300 per hour, $2400 per day, $12000 per week, $624000 per year plus your markups and that isn't for overtime or special stuff.
Everyone's got a right to earn a living, I agree.
When I looked at the receipts that are in my coach and tallied them up in my head, I was shocked at the prices guys paid for service. And that all adds up to a huge amount over time. One day I might just take a calculator to it all and see. There is a huge savings that can be had by shopping online, doing the work yourself, and only paying someone to do stuff you can't do. But better make sure you know who is doing the work. We depend on these forums to give good info on these guys, and when bad info is passed on, we all pay.
I get it some on these forums like this guy. I don't know, never met him, only his work.
You know, the worst part of being a service adviser in a RV place for a year, was difficult after owning my own RV related business's all my life. I could see right through the techs flat rate BS.
I also gave so much work away, because someone would call, and I would start giving them phone tech, instead of chumping them into the shop, so I could lay them away $$$$.
Poor guys is on a RV vacation with his family, and tells me his refer won't work on LP. So what do I do, tell him to clean the burner. But I was instructed to get him in, and charge him one hour at $120.00, then 8.5% sales tax (on labor in Washington) then another $20.00 for 'Shop supplies". shop supplies in it self is joke in my mind.
The whole RV industry is over selling their service department's, and in the end they will pay for it. Remember, everything goes up and down, and this RV boom will go down again. I know, I 've been through it a few times.
Thanks for letting me rant
Chris
Unless we want to talk about shops and overhead think the fuel hose aspect of the post is dead,don't matter to me,we can go on
or stop,one thing for sure,if buddy bernd had used the right hose we would'nt have had these posts,the cost of better hose was
irrelevent it would have been passed on.
Just my two cents,
I've been working as a mechanic for over 40 years. The only place I would use Gates plant master or any red hose on my Foretravel is the air hose to air up the tires. That the hose everyone used to run over at the service station to ring the bell. That's what Gates means by oil and fuel resistant!
On the subject of flat rate, I've worked flat rate. It's purpose was meant to be an incentive. A great service person can perform many jobs faster than others. OEM would tell you a job should take 4 hours, that's what warranty or the customer should be charged. If the service person did the job in 3 they still go 4 hours pay. But if they took 5 shop only received 4. Unfortunately it doesn't work that way.
I think jobs should be quoted before hand and any change from the quote should an agreed or revised quote. That's how I did work at my business.
Never had any work done at a shop yet other then tires but do these RV shops even charge flat rates,seems all the work is different.
What could they actually charge a flat rate for?If you get a price on a specific job that is not flat rate.My point being if the shops don't charge the flat rate why are we talking about it?
Sorry, shop hourly rate to me is flat rate. Remember I've been on the other side of the counter. Just because your vehicle in the shop for 8 hours, it doesn't mean it's being worked on for 8 when you pay the bill.
John I could careless about the cost of fuel line per foot or what a business needs to charge to make a profit. What I was talking about is a business in Texas that uses new Foretravel owners ignorance to provide inferior parts along with inferior workmanship.
You want to continue using that business go for it. I am speaking to those on the forum that want to avoid poor service.
I will give you another example of what I am talking about; Beau at Bern'd was going to do valve adjustment for me. So he was on top of the engine while his assistant was using a bar to turn the engine damper. His helper loosened the damper bolts in order to turn the damper. However, he loosed them so much he broke off 2 of them. Instead of getting a easy out and fixing their mistake, Beau and his helper pull off and go work on another coach. If that professionalism I am wrong.
The fuel line debate is not dead it is only getting started. I have a fellow forum member that had Bern'd change his transmission fluid to synthetic. After leaving for home while on the interstate, he had low fluid transmission warning. It was down 1 gal. along with being charged $100 a gallon for the fluid that Bern'd had added. Mistake or incompetence. Poor supervision or unqualified tech.
Buyer beware or oversight. Too many customers or not enough qualified techs. Beau left why? Would be interesting to know the real reason why?
Here's another tip for Beau and friends,you only have to position a straight six engine 2 times to do a valve adjustment,TDC number
1 on compression and 360 from that tdc number 1 exhaust,adjust half the valves at a time have done thousands like that.
Think they would have the turning tool by now.
Next time someone sees Beau,ask him why he left.
I respect what you said, been a RV tech on flat rate, and had tech's under me as a adviser on flat rate.
I have seen it over and over many times. 200-210 hours flagged, in a 38 hour week (summer you know, have to fish)
I agree the original plan was to create incentive, but I have also seen it many times abused, and used to lie and steal.
It got so bad with the FT techs I worked with, that Winnebago (which we sold also) started policing the work orders, and the tech's had to punch the time clock to get the flat rate.
Even at that, they figured out how to work it.
I agree, jobs should be quoted, but RV shops never do. At least give a ball park of what one might expect.
Chris ;D
Fuel lines, brakes, service, body work,whatever, I'll have a written quote for each operation BEFORE the work is performed. Your running a shop your supposed to be a professional @ 100.00+ an hour you should be able to estimate a job. I ran a construction fleet with 600+ vehicles and equipment. I can tell you I had better hit my budget by +~ 3%, or you had some splaining to do.
So he was on top of the engine while his assistant was using a bar to turn the engine damper. His helper loosened the damper bolts in order to turn the damper. However, he loosed them so much he broke off 2 of them. Instead of getting a easy out and fixing their mistake, Beau and his helper pull off and go work on another coach. If that professionalism I am wrong.
Took my coach to Beau had the valves adjusted and when I picked it up Beau was not there, helpers new nothing, I noticed right away that a bolt on my dampener had been twisted off. So I called him and he said I would have to pay to get it fixed. He never answered the phone for me again (and I was still in a good mood). The bolt was twisted off in the adapter to pulley and could not be drilled out. Those small bolts should never be used to turn over an engine. On the other side I machine a stainless adapter from the factory drawings supplied to me from FOT as they did not have one in stock. Once learned, not gonna be twice burned. The Stainless is a nice touch.
On my 8.3 Cummins I take the belt pulley off the dampener and use the bolts on back of that to turn the engine over,if you go slow
and let the compression dissapate you won't break a bolt and can use a ratchet.
PS John,good looking engine.
John good looking engine and thank you for confirming that I am not alone in experiencing mediocre at its finest.
Will probably send him a PM but last night I was looking at some old posts and found a picture posted by the Brays,it was of
a leveling part and lo and behold I saw the red air hose going into his fuel filter,don't want to alarm him but think he should know.
Sorry to hear about all the troubles everyone had regarding fuel line replacement. If they want to stay in business, they better start recalling some fuel line jobs!
Which shop in NAC does this Bernd guy own?
I just want to make sure I stay away from it so I don't get burned.
John 44 I see no reason to use air lines for fuel lines unless there is ignorance on either the foreman or owner. Which ever one was responsible for ordering air lines. But my question is now that Bern'd knows the fuel lines he installed were wrong: how is he addressing the problem. Back to one of your comments, why in the world would he use that product unless he was mislead by the salesman he purchased it from and never verified the use with Gates.
But he should hone up to his mistake and make some kind good faith jester.
Ditto on the condolences for shoddy work/billing, but it sure would be nice if Bern'd and Beau weren't so anonymous to those of us who are newcomers. After what I've read here, I'd like to avoid these two "technicians" like the plague. So again, full names, and where do they work? Woody.
Agree,my main point is no matter what he paid for the hose it would have been passed on to the customer.Just from being on the forum these years I think Bernd started out as an engine mechanic and maybe progressed to beyond his expertise,saw it in the
oilfield as a mechanic,some of these guys just can't form the words "I can't do that"or "I don't know".At the 100 per hour it's hard
to turn down work.Think if I was Bernd I would get on the forum and offer every member of the red hose club a redo for free.
Good of you to be concerned about another Forum member, but they no longer own their Foretravel. Downsized to a Class C.
I took my coach into World Line Motors and left this review on R V Service Review.
Date of Service: 5/1/2018
Company Contact: Bernd
Work Done on: Class A - Diesel
Service Performed: Took motorhome in to have valve adjustment and replace
hoses and belts.
Evaluation of Service Performed: Shop charged 9 gallons of oil, 8.3 only holds 6
gallons, hose clamps 30.00 each for 10 clamps. Changed
hydraulic oil but did not replace 3 filters. Changed
transmission fluid and now transmission has leak.
$5,000 bill. I will never let anyone work on motor
home other than factory or Cummins or Allison
certified from now on.
Value of Service: Poor
Quality of Service: Poor
That probably won't happen John. How many posts do you see that after having a repair redone for free do you see the comment "but I won't be using their service again" This fuel line issue goes way back in years and financially would be unbearable. Too bad he couldn't kick it upstairs to the company that sold him the hose, but as posted the statue of limitations is expired. He will survive on the customers that had work done that was satisfactory to them, or not.
John 44 totally agree. Offering redo on his dime would do more for his business success then deny, deny, deny!!!!!!
The trouble that I see with Bern'd is FT repairs have been a "Golden Cash Cow". Using unqualified techs to do complicated jobs that are beyond their ability. Over charging, padding hours, and screwing everyone that makes the mistake of driving into his lair. I wrote awhile back about the wrong clamps used on the return fuel line causing a loss of over 50 gals of diesel fuel. Lucky there was not a fire. Thanks to a concerned motorist warning me, I was able to fashion a clamp out of wire. The Bern'd Idiots had tightened the clamp so hard is the reason it failed. I contacted Bern"d and was told he Knew about That thank you.
We has a terrible shop experience at MOT a few years ago. We made an appointment for May and they still had the coach in November. It was a series of small things, none of which were serious.
We had a fan controller problem that they couldn't address so Bernd picked up the coach from them to fix that. When I went down to check on it he pointed out how bad the air bags were (thread sticking out and severely cracked) so I had him replace those and put seals in the radiator fan motors that were leaking. That was an expensive bill but well documented and we never had a minutes trouble with Bernd's repairs. I had asked him about the fuel lines at the time and he said ours looked to be in great shape.
I got home from Bernd's and parked in the shop only to have a big pool of diesel form under the Aquahot that MOT had worked on. Had to clamp the hoses to get it back there to be fixed . I expressed my unhappiness with keeping the coach so long, sending it out with bad air bags and then not having a functioning Aquahot. I had a call from Dave Robertson with profuse apologies and the promise that they would get it fixed and make appropriate adjustments on the bill. He gave me his cell number and said call him right away if I had another problem.
They did everything he promised so I feel they should have my loyalty.
All that said, I see now that the coach we just traded for has Gates red hose on it. I didn't know it had ever been to Bernd so I don't know whether he did it. I haven't found the receipt for the fuel lines or the new filter system.
I'm not going to worry about it for now.
I only know I will never leave my coach anywhere for more than a couple of days without being back to check on it.
Sounds about right.
I have never gone to him, but my coach has. I am left to fix all the mess he made on my coach. The airbags seem ok, but have this annoying leak, maybe its from that, it's been to Foretravel, MOT, and the company that makes the damn leveling system in our coaches, and it still leans! I have the receipts.
Maybe hes a good diesel mech. Maybe he went into a area where he should have stayed away. I don't know. I only know that the shoddy workmanship his company performed on my coach is now my problem.
Even if he had offered to replace my hose, I would have deferred. I would have taken the cost to replace the hose I put in, but would not accept any work from his guys. NO WAY! Fool me once.......
Bob if you are waiting to receive money from Bern'd; that will happen when the "Tooth Fairy" arrives. I know he monitors the forum and as of today not one apology. Nor any offering of making it right. Not even blaming Beau. So I have to assume that he is spending all his time trying to start legal actions against the forum, along with anyone that said anything bad about his company. There is a reason that his company is a LLC entity.
One of the main purposes of an LLC is to provide liability protection for the members and managers. Unlike some other business structures, such as a sole proprietorship, an LLC structure protects the personal assets of the owners from business liability.
How convenient is that!
John, I expect nothing from him. If I had paid for this work, and got this result, I would be calling my lawyer for sure. But I would be remiss if I didn't pass on my experience with this coach and my receipts and my photos. The proof so to speak is in the pudding... or rather the fuel hose and basement and possibly other stuff.. don't know.
Ok this has covered the topic. I am going to lock it.