Foretravel Motorhome Forums => Foretravel Tech Talk => Topic started by: OffTheGridRVs on October 18, 2018, 11:27:09 pm
Title: Fuel pump leak 99 M11
Post by: OffTheGridRVs on October 18, 2018, 11:27:09 pm
I think it's called a common rail pump just below/bolted to the compressor? Please correct me if I'm wrong.. It just started leaking fuel recently, both racor and FS1000 fuel filters have been replaced. It's a seep, that's runs down then drops off the FS1000 fuel filter.
There's a 9/16 bolt at the top of the pump with some sort of flange below it (pic attached), I have searched all over and can't seem to find the answer, so I'm turning to all the great forum members for some more knowledge.
Any idea what causes the pump to leak from this top bolt?
Thank you all in advance,
Title: Re: Fuel pump leak 99 M11
Post by: OffTheGridRVs on October 19, 2018, 12:12:28 am
Here's a better pic of the bolt I'm referring to
Title: Re: Fuel pump leak 99 M11
Post by: John44 on October 19, 2018, 12:28:28 am
First thing I would do is degrease and clean the area and verify where the leak is and go from there,by morning someone with that pump and same expierience will chime in.
Title: Re: Fuel pump leak 99 M11
Post by: OffTheGridRVs on October 19, 2018, 12:34:32 am
Thank you John, I have wiped the area with a rag while it was running and it is seaping from the base of that cone without a doubt.
I'll be back in the morning to check in though as well, thanks again for your prompt reply John, I appreciate the info.
Title: Re: Fuel pump leak 99 M11
Post by: Pamela & Mike on October 19, 2018, 07:02:12 am
J.R.
That is a serviceable part, underneath the cap is a filter for the fuel pump. If you remove and find metal shavings in filter you will need to replace pump. These numbers are somewhat old and may have been updated so check to make sure. I will look around on the net to see if I can find a print that I can post so you can see what you are working with. The only one I have is a hard copy in a pump repair manual. It is straight forward as to the repair. You might be able to just replace "O" ring. (I would replace the filter while there), depends if the cap comes off easy and what you find.
I'm not sure for the part numbers for the 1st 2 items. The cap should be fine #21 3014575 filter cap
This is the problem child as the OEM "O" ring can't handle the ULS diesel fuel. It breaks down over time and starts to leak. You can get another "O" ring at a local seal company. #22 3021123 "O" ring
Here should be the part numbers you need for repair: #13 70700 spring #19 146483 filter
Mike
Title: Re: Fuel pump leak 99 M11
Post by: Pamela & Mike on October 19, 2018, 07:56:05 am
J.R,
After rereading my post here is some more info.
The 9/16" bolt is really the filter cap. It just unscrews and it will expose all the parts that you need to replace. You need to clean that area up REAL GOOD with cleaner of some kind before you open it up. Don't skimp this as any yuck will cause you grief down the road. Once it is clean then you can pull the cap off while the fuel pump is still on the engine. (Yes I know there isn't much room to work) Make sure you put some lube on the "O" ring so it won't kink as you tighten the cap back. This is really a straight forward job that most people can DIY.
Mike
Title: Re: Fuel pump leak 99 M11
Post by: OffTheGridRVs on October 19, 2018, 10:39:55 am
Thank you very much for the information and part numbers Mike, I'll clean up the area really good with some degreaser and brake cleaner before removing the cap.
I did give it a little torque yesterday clockwise and counter to see if it was loose at all. It seems pretty snug, but I was kneeling on the valve cover lol.
I'll post the outcome when it's completed, and hopefully I won't see any metal in the filter.
I love this forum, and the wealth of information you all possess.
Thanks again Mike,
J.R.
Title: Re: Fuel pump leak 99 M11
Post by: Pamela & Mike on October 19, 2018, 05:46:30 pm
J.R.
After looking around today haven't found a break down on the net of the fuel pump that I can link up. If I run across one I will post it here, even if it is too late to help you out it may help out the next person.
Mike
Title: Re: Fuel pump leak 99 M11
Post by: Pamela & Mike on October 19, 2018, 06:07:12 pm
J.R.,
This isn't the one I was looking for on the Cummins site but it will help you out. Scroll down the page and you will see both the break down and parts list. Kina CUMMINS QSM ISM Bränslepump 3090942 3417674 Tillverkare (http://se.bossgoo.com/product-detail/cummins-qsm-ism-fuel-pump-3090942-52259540.html)
Mike
Title: Re: Fuel pump leak 99 M11
Post by: OffTheGridRVs on October 19, 2018, 06:09:21 pm
It's never too late :) I was able to find it on Cummins website, and after entering my ESN (engine serial number?) I was able to find the expolded parts view you were referring to I believe. It also had match item numbers you referred to such as #13, #21 etc with part numbers matching the two you provided and images of each part. But I couldn't purchase direct from them.
After calling some dealers and providing them with the part numbers, they confirmed stock at Cummins but would have to order them in (3 days ground shipping).
It's been raining here all day, and I do have an o-ring kit with me. So I was wondering if there's no metal in the filter, maybe I would be able to clean the filter, find a matching o-ring from my kit and stop the leak until I can get the new parts?
I have the site open on my laptop with all the info, and will post it shortly for anyone else who may come across this problem as well.
Title: Re: Fuel pump leak 99 M11
Post by: Pamela & Mike on October 19, 2018, 06:15:42 pm
So I was wondering if there's no metal in the filter, maybe I would be able to clean the filter, find a matching o-ring from my kit and stop the leak until I can get the new parts?
J.R.,
Personally knowing where you are working at I would wait on the parts to come in and do the job once. I wouldn't even think about cleaning that filter. One other thought don't be surprised as that little filter is about $10.
Mike
Title: Re: Fuel pump leak 99 M11
Post by: OffTheGridRVs on October 19, 2018, 06:22:45 pm
This isn't the one I was looking for on the Cummins site but it will help you out. Scroll down the page and you will see both the break down and parts list. Kina CUMMINS QSM ISM Bränslepump 3090942 3417674 Tillverkare (http://se.bossgoo.com/product-detail/cummins-qsm-ism-fuel-pump-3090942-52259540.html)
Mike
That's the one Mike,
I'm posting the link to Cummins parts as well, entering your engine ESN give you all components used on your particular engine which was nice to see.
Genuine Cummins Parts (https://parts.cummins.com/?_ga=2.160077758.2033601028.1539966263-761741385.1539966263#/)
Here's the one with images and part numbers as well, there's also the graphic view in the upper right like the one you linked to.
Genuine Cummins Parts (https://parts.cummins.com/?_ga=2.197827628.2033601028.1539966263-761741385.1539966263#/esn-entry/main/option-view/option-details/esn)
I will take it apart tomorrow and post my results, hopefully positive with no metal shavings.
So are the metal shavings from the inter pump gears?
If anyone else has replaced the pump, where did you find the best price?
Seems there's some on eBay for about $600, but prices on the net are all over the place. Also when I enter the pump part number, lots of stuff from China comes up yet the pumps says made in the USA.
I believe it's a Haldwell?
Thank you Mike
Title: Re: Fuel pump leak 99 M11
Post by: OffTheGridRVs on October 19, 2018, 06:25:17 pm
Personally knowing where you are working at I would wait on the parts to come in and do the job once. I wouldn't even think about cleaning that filter. One other thought don't be surprised as that little filter is about $10.
Mike
It is a tiny little guy, saw some for up to $25. I guess if it is the pump, ill have a spare filter and o-ring for the new pump.
Title: Re: Fuel pump leak 99 M11
Post by: Pamela & Mike on October 19, 2018, 06:36:17 pm
J.R.
Unless you like playing the low fuel guessing game and have lost a couple of times pulling a full load your pump will be fine, or do you have some other symptoms that you haven't mentioned. With the pics. you showed the leak has to be the "O" ring.
Mike
Title: Re: Fuel pump leak 99 M11
Post by: OffTheGridRVs on October 19, 2018, 06:50:19 pm
Unless you like playing the low fuel guessing game and have lost a couple of times pulling a full load your pump will be fine, or do you have some other symptoms that you haven't mentioned. With the pics. you showed the leak has to be the "O" ring.
Mike
That's great news, I don't play the fuel game ever,
I just purchased the rig in NC a few months ago, changed the oil, filters, belts, tires etc and drove it back 800 miles to Arkansas, ran great and still does. The PO was in an RV park there for the last 3 years, and 8 years down in Florida at another RV park. The husband had alzheimer's and didn't know where the tank gauges were. Really nice guy, he just could't give me much info about the rig, his wife ( a lovely woman also) didn't ever deal with the coach end of things so she knew very little. It only has about 40K miles on it from what I can see.
So I don't think they ran out of fuel anytime soon lol, they took it to Alaska when they first bought it in 2000. Most receipts in the rig are from the Aqua hot repairs.
Title: Re: Fuel pump leak 99 M11
Post by: OffTheGridRVs on October 23, 2018, 09:53:31 pm
Okay, I would like to personally thank Pamela & Mike for his help in identifying the source of the leak! Thank you very much for your help Mike.
I got the parts today directly from Cummins of Nashville, TN. The tiny filter was almost $20, and $3 for the o-ring plus $15 for overnight shipping from Indiana. I did find a source online (it's on my laptop) that had the filter for $2.50 and $1.00 for the o-ring but that would have taken 10 days to get, at the moment I don't have that kind of time, and it's minimal for this part.
It was a very simple process to change out, and there's plenty of room in the engine compartment after you lift the bed. I did degrease the area around the cap and use an air chuck to blow away any leftover debris around the cap. I did this twice as per Mikes instructions to make sure nothing was left to fall back into the fuel pump after removing the cap and filter.
It only takes a 9/16 wrench, with one knee on the valve cover it was easy to get to (passenger side below the D2 governor). I am attaching a couple pics for anyone else who may encounter the same problem. As you can see from the pictures of the o-ring on the cap, as Mike stated, the newer fuels have deteriorated the oring causing it to leak. There's also a small tapered spring between the filter and cap which I also replaced.
After replacing the filter, spring and oring, I fired up the rig and, problem solved.
Thanks again Mike,
J.R.
Title: Re: Fuel pump leak 99 M11
Post by: Old phart phred on October 24, 2018, 12:17:48 am
Order several spares from the cheap source, delivered snail mail. Won't take up much room on the coach. A spare D2 might also be a good idea.
Title: Re: Fuel pump leak 99 M11
Post by: OffTheGridRVs on October 24, 2018, 12:37:17 am
I agree Phred, I did order a spare set, surprisingly overnight shipping from Indiana to Arkansas was only $15 in a pinch. You can never have too many spare parts. The D2 governor is on my to do list this week as well, I bought it a few weeks ago.
Title: Re: Fuel pump leak 99 M11
Post by: Pamela & Mike on October 24, 2018, 07:29:14 am
J.R.,
I'm glad that this was the fix and my $0.02 worth helped you out.
This is an obscure filter and "O" ring that most owners have no idea that it is even there, much less knowing how simple it is to do the repair. I know of some owners that replaced the fuel pump due to this leak thinking that the pump had failed. Thanks for the write up and pics. as it will help others out down the road. I do the repairs and never think about taking or posting pics.
If you are like me you will forget where you put the spare filter and "O" ring by the time you need it as I can see it being several years (like 8 or 10) before you will need to replace it again.
Mike
Title: Re: Fuel pump leak 99 M11
Post by: Chris m lang on October 24, 2018, 08:42:06 am
Okay, I would like to personally thank Pamela & Mike for his help in identifying the source of the leak! Thank you very much for your help Mike.
I got the parts today directly from Cummins of Nashville, TN. The tiny filter was almost $20, and $3 for the o-ring plus $15 for overnight shipping from Indiana. I did find a source online (it's on my laptop) that had the filter for $2.50 and $1.00 for the o-ring but that would have taken 10 days to get, at the moment I don't have that kind of time, and it's minimal for this part.
It was a very simple process to change out, and there's plenty of room in the engine compartment after you lift the bed. I did degrease the area around the cap and use an air chuck to blow away any leftover debris around the cap. I did this twice as per Mikes instructions to make sure nothing was left to fall back into the fuel pump after removing the cap and filter.
It only takes a 9/16 wrench, with one knee on the valve cover it was easy to get to (passenger side below the D2 governor). I am attaching a couple pics for anyone else who may encounter the same problem. As you can see from the pictures of the o-ring on the cap, as Mike stated, the newer fuels have deteriorated the oring causing it to leak. There's also a small tapered spring between the filter and cap which I also replaced.
After replacing the filter, spring and oring, I fired up the rig and, problem solved.
Thanks again Mike,
J.R.
IF you don't mind post the cheap source for parts--I'll probably need them Thanks Chris
Title: Re: Fuel pump leak 99 M11
Post by: craneman on October 24, 2018, 10:15:00 am
IF you don't mind post the cheap source for parts--I'll probably need them Thanks Chris
here is where I found them CUMMINS 3021123 SEAL - O-RING NEW | eBay (https://www.ebay.com/itm/123364060763) Cummins PT Pump Sceen Filter 146483 | eBay (https://www.ebay.com/itm/112147523847) Mine are on their way
Title: Re: Fuel pump leak 99 M11
Post by: OffTheGridRVs on October 24, 2018, 10:40:32 am
I'm glad that this was the fix and my $0.02 worth helped you out.
This is an obscure filter and "O" ring that most owners have no idea that it is even there, much less knowing how simple it is to do the repair. I know of some owners that replaced the fuel pump due to this leak thinking that the pump had failed. Thanks for the write up and pics. as it will help others out down the road. I do the repairs and never think about taking or posting pics.
If you are like me you will forget where you put the spare filter and "O" ring by the time you need it as I can see it being several years (like 8 or 10) before you will need to replace it again.
Mike
It is pretty well hidden Mike so that wouldn't surprise me if someone changed it, and it's one of the smallest filters I've seen for such a big motor.
I always forget to take pics too, then I remember after the repair is already done. This forum is very inspiring and helpful for all of us FT owners, so I wanted to return the favor with a few pics.
I did see those on eBay too Craneman, and the prices were fair as well. I believe they were coming from Colorado
I already forgot where I put the spares, thanks again.
J.R.
Title: Re: Fuel pump leak 99 M11
Post by: wolfe10 on October 24, 2018, 11:19:43 am
From J.R.'s link above: Just a word of caution. Protecting your very expensive injection system and engine with "Premium aftermarket parts by Global Parts Zone" is NOT what I would do.
Said another way, I would only use OE (Cummins, Caterpillar or DD) parts on my engines. Saving a few (very few) bucks and "hoping" that the aftermarket part is the same quality doesn't make sense to me.
Title: Re: Fuel pump leak 99 M11
Post by: OffTheGridRVs on October 24, 2018, 11:41:57 am
From J.R.'s link above: Just a word of caution. Protecting your very expensive injection system and engine with "Premium aftermarket parts by Global Parts Zone" is NOT what I would do.
Said another way, I would only use OE (Cummins, Caterpillar or DD) parts on my engines. Saving a few (very few) bucks and "hoping" that the aftermarket part is the same quality doesn't make sense to me.
Good eye Brett, I didn't even catch that "aftermarket" as the condition. I will remove the link and agree with you 100%, I did purchase my OEM parts directly from Cummins.
Thank you Brett, now on to the D2 for me.
Title: Re: Fuel pump leak 99 M11
Post by: evantwheeler on October 01, 2024, 07:45:04 pm
From J.R.'s link above: Just a word of caution. Protecting your very expensive injection system and engine with "Premium aftermarket parts by Global Parts Zone" is NOT what I would do.
Said another way, I would only use OE (Cummins, Caterpillar or DD) parts on my engines. Saving a few (very few) bucks and "hoping" that the aftermarket part is the same quality doesn't make sense to me.
What are you thoughts on Interstate McBee branded parts? They seem like a reputable brand from an internet search. I did a forum search here and not one mention of the brand...
Wildly different costs for the same fuel pump filter referenced above and probably made in the same factory.....
$42 for the Cummins labeled filter: Cummins 146483 - Filter Screen + Cross Reference | FinditParts (https://www.finditparts.com/products/2047287/cummins-146483?sctx=eyJzIjoiY3VtbWlucyAxNDY0ODMiLCJzb3VyY2UiOiJzZWFyY2hwYWdlIiwi%0AcHJvZHVjdF9pZCI6IjIwNDcyODciLCJyZXN1bHRfY291bnQiOjY5MDQsInJl%0Ac3VsdF9pZHgiOjB9%0A)
$4 for the Interstate McBee equivalent filter: Interstate-McBee M-146483 Fuel Injector Filter Screen + Cross Reference |... (https://www.finditparts.com/products/2980193/interstate-mcbee-m-146483)